Do we value the local camera shop?

[MarkW]

QUOTE=Bally;537918]Please excuse the clumsy copy and paste, but I haven't worked out the how to make quotes work yet

MARKW Fine but that shouldn't stop you understanding that the quote system is based on a response to previously printed text held within the box and not to the general text previously written. I shall use this sytem as you have already started this format and would be difficult to correct your misunderstandings otherwise.

That's a bit strong and your following comments didn't really support your assertation that well

MARKW Whilst my tone of what is written may be a bit strong, you have failed to point out where MY comments don't support MY assertions. Big words with lots of sylables but meaningless without context.

The economy of the the online shops may not change if the local retailer shutsdown, but there is no logical connection here with who cares. I and a number of others care if the local shop closes, because I want to look feel and test a new camera. get advice service and support from them. As a number of others have said, the local shop could also have a online capability and reflect the savings from selling in an online environment.

MARKW If you look at the percentages of people who purchase over the net compared to say 5 years ago, the trend is increasing and as more and more people become computer literate and more comfortable with online purchase, the future of the small retailler is short. A large number of people these days only go to the shop to look without purchase then purchase online - not morally correct but that is the way it is. If your local camera shop holds the type of equipment you want then you must live in a major CBD area or your still learning the photography ropes as even major business district shops like Parramatta in Sydney wont carry the type of bodies, lenses or accessories I need. Its all order in stuff and I refuse to purchase when I cant see from a retailler so I may as well use online.

Everyone charges what the market will bear, unless they are selling into a competive market, that is why unique items sell for so much, and commodity items so little. Competition is the ultimate market force. Banks "may" be an oligopoly, but again when funds are easy to access, small players come into the market and drives costs down. again competition.


MarkW I don't need a lesson in basic business mechanics. I have an AD in this and this subject was week 1, lesson 1.

If you want to use Telstra as an example of a monopoly, then perhaps it is not the best example. There are plenty of monopolies and monopolistic businesses out there. For example, Standard Oil, Bell Telephone, both broken up. Microsoft invested in Apple to ensure that they didn't reach 95% market share and become a victim of monopoly laws.


MarkW I refer back to my first comment. I didnt bring in the example of Telstra, the author in the quote box did.

Something like banning australians from buying from overseas sites? They already have the laws in place to block sites if they did this. Not likely I admit, but possible, grey marketing is illegal in some countries.

MarkW What a load of crap. Maybe if you were buying pornography or something which may be considered as morally outrageous but we are specifically talking about camera equipment. This is not a communist country. Care to specify what countries (other than communist or dictatorships) make grey market sales illegal? Yes you can't buy cuban cigars in the USA but thats a product block of a rogue dictatorship which had previously shown agression towards the US.

As I said in an earlier post the local retailer may or may not be able to compete, but under the current structure it is disadvantaged by manufacturer selling tactics, not the selling opportunites.

MarkW No its diadvantaged by its own business model which has enormous overheads and a loyalty to the local brand distributor. There is no reason it cant accept a grey market business model. It works for D-D Photographics. If all the small retailers went to a bricks and mortar grey market model the only one to suffer would be the local distributor ie Nikon Australia, an independant business entity. It would have no affect on Nikon Japan - relatively the same number of Nikons would be sold. Eventually a distributor for local grey market would be formed which would compete against the overseas distributors then everybody would be happy.


So in summary, local retailers can offer online services as cheaply as a big company, but also offer unique capabilities above and beyond online busnesses.

See earlier comment on look and touch

They can't buy as cheaply as high volume sellers, but this could be addressed as it is in other industries by the sales model of the vendors. If it was they could then compete, and have a full service offering business and a no service online business and even a third model that involves both.

What industries - qualify your statement

You want the distributor to say "Ohh look, a little retailler, lets give him a lower distributor price than the company who sells 100 times as much". Did you fall out of a tree recently and bump your head? I dont know of any distributor who sell for less with a lower volume. Sales prices equate to volume, that was lesson 2 week 1, note its so simple it was done on the same day as lesson 1.

Allowing the little retailer to be run out of business would be bad for the manufacturers in the long run.

Rubbish, people are going to purchase the brand and model of equipment they want one way or another so that in the end the manufacturer will still get the profits albeit sometimes in a reduced amount.

Monopolies grow out of unregulated markets and are broken up in regulated markets.
Laws and regulations change with time, experience and circumstance.

So I haven't indicated any desire for a monopoly have I, maybe you dont understand what has been written. Either that or you are taking comments out of context which only reinforces a lack of understanding or a desire to write agressively for your own agrandisement.

I think your agression and lack of understanding about marketing and economics are displayed here.

Maybe my tone was and is a little strong but you really have shown no insight or provided any qualified statements which give any impression of an understanding of corporate governance or business modelling. Maybe things have changed in the last 20 years when I got my AD but I don't think so.

[ricstew]

I care if my local retailer closes down...........but not the camera bloke.
Smaller retailers need to take a closer look at their customer service........thats what I am happily paying the higher price for.........
I cant justify paying $60 for a $19 sc card..........but i said no thanks with a smile........
cheers
Jan

[bricat]

Just a quick check online for a camera I am looking at; canon 7d with lens cheapest $2200. to $3600 from Ted's. I have to go into Melbourne to see and purchase the camera at Ted's or not see it and purchase online. And the savings $1400. If someone could justify that amount of difference then I would happily and prefer to buy at Ted's. Same as I don't need to feel and see the camera in the flesh as I trust Canon with there products. And they all come from the same factory????? So really we are not talking a few dollars here to keep the local store going I'm supporting him to drive his Lambo!!

[BLWNHR]

I read the first page of this thread and have a fair feel for where it's going.

My $0.02 worth is to say of the $7.5k of gear I have bought in the last 18 months less than $500 of that has been online, and then it was to Australian online stores. I have watched over the last 10 years as our regional city has dropped from several camera stores down to one.

I have built up a great relationship with all the staff in this shop, they all know me by name and are always very helpful. I love being able to call in, maybe have a coffee with the manager, and talk cameras with people who hold the same interests. This to me is invaluable!

I could have saved around $1500 buying online, but what of warranty? If I have a problem I go back in there and they are straight onto their Nikon rep. If I have a shoot coming up they will offer me a loan lens, body, whatever. You will never get that from any online store.

If I buy a new body, take it home and am struggling with something I could spend a few hours searching the net, asking questions and posting photos on forums. Or I can walk into my local store and show them my issue. 90% of their staff do the training through Nikon, Canon etc. and can offer real advise. "Come with me for a walk down the street and we'll see what we can work out shooting in the real world." Brilliant, I couldn't ask for more.

People complaining they won't match grey-market prices or whatever, of course they can't, and never will. But for genuine, Aus-delivered, stock from an Australian online store (compare apples with apples here) you would be surprised what they can do. Of course if you go in with a price on a D90, body only, from insert online store here and say "match this" they will probably say no. This is just the simple rule of margins. However, if you make a reasonable purchase with them then they will be far more likely to look after you on price down the track. Case in point, my first purchase was a D300 and 70-200 2.8. A reasonable purchase. Because they had increased margins, because it was a reasonable purchase, they came happily close to the online price. Then when I bought my 24-70 2.8 they really looked after me, likewise with all subsequent purchases. I also get great value on my prints too, an added bonus.

[dsaini]

I read the first page of this thread and have a fair feel for where it's going.

My $0.02 worth is to say of the $7.5k of gear I have bought in the last 18 months less than $500 of that has been online, and then it was to Australian online stores. I have watched over the last 10 years as our regional city has dropped from several camera stores down to one.

I have built up a great relationship with all the staff in this shop, they all know me by name and are always very helpful. I love being able to call in, maybe have a coffee with the manager, and talk cameras with people who hold the same interests. This to me is invaluable!

I could have saved around $1500 buying online, but what of warranty? If I have a problem I go back in there and they are straight onto their Nikon rep. If I have a shoot coming up they will offer me a loan lens, body, whatever. You will never get that from any online store.

If I buy a new body, take it home and am struggling with something I could spend a few hours searching the net, asking questions and posting photos on forums. Or I can walk into my local store and show them my issue. 90% of their staff do the training through Nikon, Canon etc. and can offer real advise. "Come with me for a walk down the street and we'll see what we can work out shooting in the real world." Brilliant, I couldn't ask for more.

People complaining they won't match grey-market prices or whatever, of course they can't, and never will. But for genuine, Aus-delivered, stock from an Australian online store (compare apples with apples here) you would be surprised what they can do. Of course if you go in with a price on a D90, body only, from insert online store here and say "match this" they will probably say no. This is just the simple rule of margins. However, if you make a reasonable purchase with them then they will be far more likely to look after you on price down the track. Case in point, my first purchase was a D300 and 70-200 2.8. A reasonable purchase. Because they had increased margins, because it was a reasonable purchase, they came happily close to the online price. Then when I bought my 24-70 2.8 they really looked after me, likewise with all subsequent purchases. I also get great value on my prints too, an added bonus.

I Agree with BLWNHR, it comes down to customer service.

A friend bought a D700 from an online store, it has focusing issues, he had to send it for repair at Camera Clinic which took about 6weeks to come back.

With local shop, he would have just walked in and replaced the body and he would have had a working body the same day but since he bought online he had to rely on repairs than just getting it replaced.

[BLWNHR]

Just a quick check online for a camera I am looking at; canon 7d with lens cheapest $2200. to $3600 from Ted's. I have to go into Melbourne to see and purchase the camera at Ted's or not see it and purchase online. And the savings $1400.

But you're talking about Ted's, they are ALWAYS expensive. Find a quality retailer like Camera Exchange or the like and talk to them. Corporate stores like Ted's and Harvey Norman are only interested in money, not having knowledgeable, helpful staff.

[pgbphotographytas]

I value the interaction I get from my local store more then saving a couple of $ by buying off the internet. I go in every couple of weeks for a browse, they know me by name and I know most of them by name, we talk gear and what we have been snapping lately, I get to play with the new equipment and if I have any problems at all they are happy to sort them out. When I make big purchases they always look after me with a good price

[Redgum]

I Agree with BLWNHR, it comes down to customer service.

A friend bought a D700 from an online store, it has focusing issues, he had to send it for repair at Camera Clinic which took about 6weeks to come back.

With local shop, he would have just walked in and replaced the body and he would have had a working body the same day but since he bought online he had to rely on repairs than just getting it replaced.

This can often be the reverse though. Very small stores with low stock or large chains often send cameras back to suppliers before replacing them and this can take a lot longer than repairs.

[ricktas]

This can often be the reverse though. Very small stores with low stock or large chains often send cameras back to suppliers before replacing them and this can take a lot longer than repairs.

Agree, if it is DOA (dead on arrival), most stores will replace it with one in stock, but otherwise they will take it off you and send it back to supplier for repair.

[Grug]

I am finding myself agreeing with the comments regarding immediate availability, but not so much on service. Although it can be nice to encounter staff that are helpful and know their products - you can get most of the same details online, and without having to hope that you are fortunate enough to get a salesperson that knows their stuff.

So for me - the only incentive to go local is for things I can't wait for the postage times associated with internet orders. It may sound harsh, but I don't believe in supporting outdated business models purely because they have been useful/viable in the past.

Something I do see a good market position for is localised stockpiles with priority couriers and no bricks-and-mortar presence and reduced staff-count to accommodate a slightly lower price point. If I need a new flash and battery for the weekend and can't wait for an international delivery, but a local online order can have it to me the next day - I would buy that.

[Redgum]

Something I do see a good market position for is localised stockpiles with priority couriers and no bricks-and-mortar presence and reduced staff-count to accommodate a slightly lower price point. If I need a new flash and battery for the weekend and can't wait for an international delivery, but a local online order can have it to me the next day - I would buy that.

Utopia. I doubt you will ever see that other than on rare occasions and just before the distributor/retailer goes broke.
Not good business practice to hold high stock levels particularly with prices constantly falling and models continually changing. Couriers are a very expensive way to distribute, one on one delivery, and we're already starting to see cluster delivery or collection points emerging in capital cities.
Actually, delivery is a blight with on-line sales and on small articles often pushes the price past the impulse buy level.

[wattsgallery]

Couriers are a very expensive way to distribute, one on one delivery, and we're already starting to see cluster delivery or collection points emerging in capital cities.
Actually, delivery is a blight with on-line sales and on small articles often pushes the price past the impulse buy level.

Re the above - I used to also point to the deliver/distance concern when it came to the success of online business in Australia but recent experience has shown me that many companies are really overcoming this.

Best recent example would by our site sponsors Quality Cameras. Check the recent thread with comments on their delivery. I personally placed a pretty small order (just over $100) but the deliver was less than $10 and arrived next morning Perth to Sydney. It seems it can be done.

Still hoping to stumble across one of the knowledgeable and helpful sales people referred to above but until then I will be going online more for purchases.

[Harrier]

Rent rises are killing the smaller shops! The cheap printing by the chains are taking so much work from the smaller guy! Combine the two!

I think Photographers do so much research on forums and Google etc that most store owners would be battling to keep up with the wealth of information out there!

[wideangle]

In this market driven economy people by in large are going to vote with their $$ first. Take a look around at the camera stores closing down around towns and cities and the big chains taking their place. The same goes for local grocery shops. There used to be one in most suburbs once - now most are closed down and no longer used. It's all good to support local shops, but in this era when online shops and chain stores can offer prices that are a lot less than traditional shops, then customer service alone isn't going to save the camera shop. Check out small grocery stores - most have had to close or turn into boutique delicatessens to survive.

[wideangle]

I value the interaction I get from my local store more then saving a couple of $ by buying off the internet.

In many cases camera gear that is sold on many online stores would be quite a bit more than a few dollars saved. It can be as much as 50% cheaper online. Again, the choice of options and where to buy is downto personal choice about how and where they want to shop. Much like the debates that surround digital v film, canon v nikon...... In the end though I reckon that, although not the perfect answer to all shopping needs, being able to get things over the internet etc gives consumers choice.

[Colinc1]

Although i would like to support the local camera store, it, just doesn't work for me as there's only one camera store near me,the rest are in the city.

Going to the city is not really an option for me,as its a 3 hr round trip,and i would have to take time off work.

The local store rarely has what i want,or its sold out,does not have a large range of lenses,but they can be ordered in,which can take week or more to get,at an inflated price.

For example, i wanted the very popular nifty 50, the local store didn't have any, and couldn't say when they would be in stock

So i tend to shop online now,and can get something delivered from o/s in about 3-5 days at a much cheaper price,i ordered a 50mm f1.8 from o/s on the Monday,got it on the Wednesday,very convenient for me.