Do we value the local camera shop?

[davesmith]

For me, pricing isn't the problem. It maybe a small part of it, but not a deciding factor. It's simply poor advice.

When shop staff push canon and nikon stating everyone uses them, and actively discourage you from other brands when they don't know the practicalities of any brand in the first place, they have no value whatsoever.

As an outcast Sony user, and years in Minolta before that, some tool in a shop telling me say, a 50D or D300 or whatever, would've been a better choice of camera is not helpful when I'm looking for a new Sony mount lens.

The only value I give to these stores now is checking a product physically before buying somewhere else. I put more reliance on actual users' experience, not someone trying to make some commission or sales target.

[Redgum]

So, most of us see the demise of the small camera retailer, particularly in rural areas and areas of small populations? It doesn't have to be so!
That retailer has a number of options. The first is diversification. Take on related products or another product that compliments his/her knowledge. Maybe art, paintings etc., home hardware if it suits. After all, Harvey Norman sells refrigerators, beds and lounges plus cameras.
Secondly, join the online game, fight fire with fire. Could really work well in rural areas as in most cases the product is delivered directly from the manufacturer anyway. Okay, he/she may need to learn some new skills or they could invest in another local with that knowledge. Something like the AP forum. We know where Rick lives but he doesn't share his house with all the Mods (at least I don't think so). The most important thing for an online business is a secure and permanent telephone number. Mobiles don't cut the mustard. There's little cost in setup compared to a bricks and mortar company and it gives you the ability to trade 24/7, even unattended. You can keep making money without getting out of bed (so to speak).
Times are changing and the way we do business has to change too.

[wattsgallery]

So many issues raised in this thread I can't comment on them all but from my perspective the individual and chain stores need to be clear on exactly what it is that they are offering that is worth a premium and quantify it. Above the online stores they offer:
- immediate delivery
- no postage cost
- no uncertainty over GST or import charges
- inspect before you buy
- sometimes valuable advice/knowledge
- ease of return/warranty follow up
- australian warranty
All of that has a value (which will vary for individuals) and the stores need to accurately assess it and decide whether or not it offsets their fixed costs (labour/rent etc) because if it doesn't they no longer have a viable business.

The 'buy price' being so far off others 'sell prices' may open questions about where bricks and mortar stores should source their gear from - perhaps 3rd parties (aust or grey market) and not the manufacturers. That opens up other issues about warrnaty etc but they are not insurmountable.

As to service and knowledge I think that is getting less and less of an argument. In the past access to information was restricted and meant that expertise was a reasonably rare thing but for anyone shopping above the entry level range now it is most likely they have researched the heck out of the gear they are looking at and as to experience with it well I will send a post out to all of you guys and girls to get first hand feedback on gear rather than hope that a particular sales person has both extensively used the gear and is inclined to provide honest feedback even at the risk of a sale.

Just my 2c.
Josh

[davesmith]

So, most of us see the demise of the small camera retailer, particularly in rural areas and areas of small populations? It doesn't have to be so!
That retailer has a number of options. The first is diversification. Take on related products or another product that compliments his/her knowledge. Maybe art, paintings etc., home hardware if it suits. After all, Harvey Norman sells refrigerators, beds and lounges plus cameras.
Secondly, join the online game, fight fire with fire. Could really work well in rural areas as in most cases the product is delivered directly from the manufacturer anyway. Okay, he/she may need to learn some new skills or they could invest in another local with that knowledge. Something like the AP forum. We know where Rick lives but he doesn't share his house with all the Mods (at least I don't think so). The most important thing for an online business is a secure and permanent telephone number. Mobiles don't cut the mustard. There's little cost in setup compared to a bricks and mortar company and it gives you the ability to trade 24/7, even unattended. You can keep making money without getting out of bed (so to speak).
Times are changing and the way we do business has to change too.

So, providing credible advice doesn't rate at all? We just want to save the shop?

[davesmith]

.... As to service and knowledge I think that is getting less and less of an argument. In the past access to information was restricted and meant that expertise was a reasonably rare thing but for anyone shopping above the entry level range now it is most likely they have researched the heck out of the gear they are looking at and as to experience with it well I will send a post out to all of you guys and girls to get first hand feedback on gear rather than hope that a particular sales person has both extensively used the gear and is inclined to provide honest feedback even at the risk of a sale.

Just my 2c.
Josh

If service and knowledge isn't important, what's the point of saving, or even having, the shop in the first place?

[wattsgallery]

Dave my point was that the reason that the stores are preferrable is because they offer all or a combination of these things:

- immediate delivery
- no postage cost
- no uncertainty over GST or import charges
- inspect before you buy
- sometimes valuable advice/knowledge
- ease of return/warranty follow up
- australian warranty

as opposed to the 'knowledge' argument which I believe is ever diminished as alternative sources of information become available.

[Redgum]

Once we can grow food online there probably isn't any reason for bricks and mortar. Simply move all the country folk into the cities where they can suffer poverty with their city cousins. That's because tens of thousands of real jobs will disappear. Sorry if I'm passionate about promoting work in rural areas.
Ozzie townsfolk rely on local business to survive. I think it's more appropriate to find ways to modify those businesses so that can happen. Far more important than someone saving a quid on a camera purchase.
Sometimes you have to pay for things in life but let's make it equitable. An online solution for rural camera shops seems to be a smart alternative particularly if matched with face to face service.

[Bear Dale]

Dave my point was that the reason that the stores are preferrable is because they offer all or a combination of these things:

- immediate delivery

Hmm yes but is 24-48 hours really that long to wait for sometimes a massive saving?

- no postage cost

Again the postage cost can be offset against the overall saving and that's before bargaining for free postage (which I have usually been successful with.

- no uncertainty over GST or import charges

I've bought over $20,000 in piecemeal acquisitions and so far have never paid any GST or import charges.

- inspect before you buy

That's a point, but with Youtube and online reviews a fairly informed descision can be made without physically handling many products.

- sometimes valuable advice/knowledge

And sometimes quite invaluable advice as well. Again, a savvy buyer would have done their homework long before walking into a store.

- ease of return/warranty follow up

Have you ever returned something under warranty to a bricks & mortar store? It's no less painful than having to do it yourself. Usually takes longer and can be much more frustrating by NOT cutting them out of the process.

- australian warranty

Thats a point. But many things *Canon* do have Australian warranties regardless of where it's purchased. Then there are many other things like filters etc that I personally am not worried about not having an Australain warranty with.

[Redgum]

So the consensus is that we keep the bricks and mortar and suggest they develop an online presence so as to compete successfully price wise and everyone is happy. What a great idea! Maybe it should be called d-d photographics or something like that?

[davesmith]

That may be the general consensus for those concerned about price alone, which it seems most commenting here are. My issue is with quality advice, which I'm struggling to find, but am more than prepared to pay for. I don't care where they're from, but why would I want to pay extra to buy from a shop when they don't offer me anything over buying cheaper online?

[maccaroneski]

I agree with Dave. I found that at ECS - bought a body and 2 lenses there.

[Redgum]

Dave, go back to the original post. The statement was that the shop owner had expertise but can't compete with online prices. The resolve is that the shop owner retain his business and add online facilities. Best of both worlds and meets your criteria. You can go and talk to the shop owner and pay a retail price whilst others can buy online at reduced cost (saving of labour costs) but forgo that advice and service.

[davesmith]

I did read the original post. It questioned "how do we expect the local shop to survive?" I offered my opinion that they need to provide quality advice for the price they charge. Someone in a shop telling me I should've bought a canon and treating me like an idiot because I didn't isn't quality advice. So what incentive do I have to use the shop?

[Redgum]

I did read the original post. It questioned "how do we expect the local shop to survive?" I offered my opinion that they need to provide quality advice for the price they charge. Someone in a shop telling me I should've bought a canon and treating me like an idiot because I didn't isn't quality advice. So what incentive do I have to use the shop?

Well, I have to agree with that Dave. Anyone telling you you should have bought a Canon would have rocks in their head. But that happens with cars, whitegoods and computers. Go to the next shop.

[Steve Axford]

I'm all for service and I am prepared to pay a little more for it (note - a little more), but even the big camera stores often provide little service. It's hard to see how a small store with essentially no expertise can survive.

[Big Pix]

...... I buy at a store and use the same store for web purchase........ the professional service that I have received over a number of years has been excellent....... e.g.: purchased a new digital D200 took it on location and had an instant hate for the body, it was exchanged for a D2Xs without question...... have returned, or, and exchanged a number of lens over the years, new and second hand, due to various reasons, done without question...... so a store is important to me just for quality and professional service.........and sometimes I just drop into the store for coffee....... but their biscuits do need changing........

[ricktas]

If you can't beat em, join em!

There is nothing to stop some of these brick and mortar stores building their own online site, with a shop, employing some schoolies to do the packaging and away they go. Often we hear them whinge that the online retailer is taking their business away, well there is not one thing stopping them from competing in this 'new' online world, other than the fact they are to blinkered to consider it, cause that is 'not how we do things around here'.

You can do it fairly cheaply to, the software that runs the Ausphotography Shop is FREE, and infinitely customisable: http://www.oscommerce.com/. Can you be successful online using free site software? Of course, www.qualitycamera.com.au (An Ausphotography advertiser) uses this very software.

Yes, they may disappear, but so have so many things before them, and the main reason is that they disappeared cause they didn't keep up.

[Charmed]

Some stores shoot themselfs in the foot, by not stocking the very basic stuff.
ie, batteries, most popular cards, even those basic cleaning kits, blowers etc.

Yes will go to Albury & even Shepp, but main reason why I shop online is convience & yes even cheaper, even after postage etc. You cant even get the basics at our store these days. God they dont even stock point & shoots anymore. Perfer to cater to the tourist market & pump out the 1hr photos.

[MarkW]

Me, I'm no longer interested in bricks and mortar shops, I just want a retailer to supply what I specify. When I started in underwater photography some 30 odd years ago, a shop in Pitt Street, Sydney in their commercial/industrial section was only too happy to help where they could with advice and products. They were great. That store was Fletchers Photographics. Since they closed down the industrial section and moved premises they aren't worth a pinch of ****. Their shop assistantant are grossly undertrained - to test this ask them what film is?

This is the same everywhere, I'm yet to find a retailer that has a clue about what they are selling other than what they read, at the time that I enquire, about the product. Give me a break, just hand me the pamphlet and I'll read it myself.

The internet is a wonderful resource and allows me to look up far more specifications than is printed on the sales brochure so why do I need some dumbarsed sales assitant telling me what on the piece of paper. Worse yet is when they lie to you and tell you how good this is, "I have one myself at home" - please give me a break, I wasn't born yesterday and in fact I purchase things for a living and have studied business psychology. If they think that these sorts of plays are going to work - wrong, only makes me walk out.

Sorry if your a retailler with a shop but really I'm over you.

[Craggles]

I recently purchased a grey import 50D, I would have loved to purchase it in a store however I got the camera and a 50mm f/1.8 for $1100, I went to every store in the perth CBD and to get something similar was being quoted atleast $5-600 more, I value their advice and would happily pay for it, but seriously its not worth that much.

It's unfortunate that they cant compete with online prices, maybe canon should look into this and start helping out the smaller blokes.