I suggest you go back and read my replies more carefully .. word being put into my mouth here. not really appreciated either!
What I said, was in response to MM's comment that Nikon desperately need APS-C pro glass(lenses).
What I said was that if a photographer was to base their decision to go back to APS-C solely on the provision of lens choices, it's illogical .. they don't really understand why they've done that.
Went on to give lens examples, based on the lens capability for each format. That some lenses are made in plastic and others' are covered with metal is no indication that the lens is pro, more durable or whatever(easy way to understand this is to read up Lens Rental blog.
Many instances of straight up metal bodies Sony lenses made primarily using plastic inside that wear/break/fatigue/cause them troubles .. this is metal bodied lenses!
Never called anyone an idiot .. especially an APS-C user since I am one myself!
Never said that the D850 was so amazing that Nikon didn't need a mirrorless. I said that I don't think Nikon need a mirrorless camera to make money, and I have said in other posts that they need to make good products backed up with no faults, and backed up with better customer relations! .. that will give them good profits in the long run, and customer loyalty.
WHAT I SAID:
Lets get one thing sorted straight up tho. Full frame does offer at least one major advantage over APS-C(and other cropped formats). For a given sensor pixel pitch(ie. number of pixels per square millimeter the full frame sensor gives you all of those cropped sensors combined, you get the choice of which one you'd prefer .. and that once you choose a cropped sensor, you can't uncrop it as you can crop a larger sensor!
What does this mean in a practicality sense: I can use a full frame 50Mp sensor(lets use Canon's 5Dsr as the example), crop to 22Mp APS-C, or 16Mp m4/3rds sensor.
Using this fabled 16mm f/1.4 lens as a guide, we know using the standard crop calculations, this equates to a 24mm f/1.8 lens on the full frame format. Back tracking a bit on sensor sizes, this requires a 12mm f/1 lens for m4/3 sensor.
The widest very fast aperture lens currently available for full format is the Sigma 20/1.4(been thinking of adding this one to my kit too for it's unusualness!)
This gives wide FOV and fast aperture. To get the same FOV plus DOF on the cropped formats require a 14mm f/1 lens on APS-C or a 10mm f/0.7 lens for m4/3rds .. quite clearly the types of lenses required to achieve similar results on full frame are getting beyond ridiculous now for the cropped formats. The full frame formats have been around a lot longer than the cropped formats, so it's only natural that more varied lens types exist for the larger formats. The 135 format has been the most popular film format ever .. and again it's only natural that it contain the largest number of lens types from all the manufacturers that ever made them.
Another big advantage of the full format over the cropped sensors I mentioned earlier, and that was that if the pixel density of the sensor is accommodating for it, you can crop the larger sensor to the same FOV as the smaller sensor.
This means weight savings for the larger format. Where most folks look at the obvious size differences of the smaller formats, they don't take the time to contemplate the overall package of lenses required to achieve FOV parity.
So the APS-C kit, we'll give it the 16mm f/1.4 and for the full frame kit we're going to give it the equiv 24/1.8 lens. They give close enough to the same FOV(actually wider according to lens specs from Fuji and Nikon respectively, but we'll ignore that point for now).
The point I'm making here is that while on APS-C you've only got the 16mm FOV which is equivalent to the 24mm FOV on the full frame, on the full frame you can crop to this same APS-C format .. this now gives you not only two different lens types, but also a zoom lens where a zoom lens hasn't been used. You don't have to crop to that APS-C format, you can crop to whatever format size you like, infinitely variable from APS-C's 16mm, all the way to 24mm.
That full frame 24mm lens on full frame, is a theoretical zoom lens if you use it as an APS-C lens as well as a full frame lens.
Alternatively if we use zoom lenses as comparatives, the combinations and permutations of lens FOV is even more mind boggling compared to those available in the cropped formats.
Something like the Nikon 14-24/2.8 becomes a 21-36/2.8 used in APS-C crop mode if you prefer.
So .. with the likes of these high density full frame cameras, which can crop to 20-ish Mp in APS-C mode, the APS-C format is becoming less relevant.
**Before you attack this comment!!! .. that doesn't' mean it's not relevant .. I said, it's becoming
LESS relevant. lets get this fact straight and correct .. LESS relevant.
Reason is, taking the D500 as an example. it's APS-C frame gives 20Mp, a cropped D850 gives APS-C equiv of 20Mp. So you mount this massive 400/2.8 bird lens on the D850. It's a proper 400/2.8 FOV on the Fx camera, and it's also a 600/2.8 FOV equivalent on the same camera.
What I don't get on the APS-C D500 is the 400/2.8 ability .. I only get the 600/2.8 FOV ability .. etc etc .. to infinity(with other lenses).
So if I want 16mm on APS-C, I can have a 24mm lens full frame, but on full frame this also gives me a 36mm equivalent APS-C ability(plus any other crop ability you choose to have on APS-C as well).
So where you to want that same 24-36mm lens on APS-C, requires you to use a slower or larger zoom lens, or two lenses to achieve the same lens ability on the full frame camera body.
It's the same at the long end too with the 400mm example .. much more complex and in favor of the larger format sensor .. again!
Where you chose the APS-C format for the available lenses, now require you to add more lenses to that camera ... where the full frame camera owner doesn't need that extra weight ... nor the need to change lenses mid shoot.
Changing lenses mid shoot is almost a guarantee to miss shots.
That you chose Fuji APS-C format over Nikon's Fx camera was a personal choice for you. It seems to have worked for you.
I doubt that MissionMan chose an APS-C format, and decided that Fuji was the way to go forward from there. I think the choice was Fuji ... -> they make APS-C format gear so that's how it panned out.
That is, the Fuji camera appealed, it just so happens that they make APS-C sized gear only. I'm sure if Fuji had a 135 format camera body at a reasonable price, the choice would have been a lot more difficult.
We'll never know tho as that is simply not a choice to make.
I've kind'a waited for somethign like the D850 to come for a while now. If it isn't what I'm expecting(mainly the viewfinder), I may pass on it. The extra pixels will be a bonus but I can live without them(personally I'd have preferred to have seen something like 60-ish Mp). But in the overall scheme of thins, they make no difference to my choice.
The Fx format does tho, and is a major deciding factor for me.
The D500s' APS-C format wasn't as
'open to interpretation' for my liking. Yeah I could crop it, but I'm cropping a cropped format ... not really viable in the long term.
I made this choice based purely on physical properties, a bot of equivalence, and a lot on the possible variables .. not simply because APS-C is better worse, or that Fx is better or worse .. simply that Fx is more compliant for my future uses.
I need to reiterate again .. I've never called anyone, or any group of users idiots, least of all anyone that decides APS-C is a format for them. That assertion was made as an assumption by MissionMan due to what I elaborated on, and was misinterpreted by himself to mean something it was never meant to.
Side note: if I called anyone preferring an APS-C body an idiot then it'd be self deprecation on my part considering that I literally today! ... earlier this morning .. bought myself another APS-C camera and APS-C lens(thanks Kev!!)).
Now, I may sometimes come across to be an idiot(hey!.. take it easy peeps!
) .. I've been told that I look like an idiot(stupid hat I wear in the cold room at work) .. but I know I'm not an idiot for choosing a new APS-C camera and lens kit.