Is auto-mode not a good choice in Australia?

[Mark L]

Can you use RAW in Auto modes? Probably not.
Anyway, this would be an issue if using JPEG in any mode, not RAW, I think.

[old dog]

My view is that we should not be using auto-mode, based not on living in Australia, but based on a desire to be a better photographer by taking creative control over what the camera does.


......my view exactly.

Just been to Alaska and didn`t find any difference really with ...anything. Pics looked no different.

[Dylan & Marianne]

Just wondering, aren't the algorithms all based on the light that's available ? So if the light is 5% brigher in the SH , won't the existing algorithm adapt to that?
I don't know how auto mode works and so I don't understand how if light is 5% better or worse, how that would result in over or underexposure for a given hemisphere. For instance how would the camera tell if a certain light condition is because there's a touch of cloud in the sky while shooting in the SH, or whether the photographer took a holiday to the NH where its just naturally a little dimmer?

[Xenedis]

Can you use RAW in Auto modes? Probably not.

With Canon DSLRs, selection of image mode (ie, raw, JPG or both) is in the camera's menus, and isn't related to the exposure mode dial.

If you have selected raw mode in the camera's menus, you'll get raw images no matter which exposure mode you select on the dial.

[arthurking83]

Just wondering, aren't the algorithms all based on the light that's available ? So if the light is 5% brigher in the SH , won't the existing algorithm adapt to that?
I don't know how auto mode works and so I don't understand how if light is 5% better or worse, how that would result in over or underexposure for a given hemisphere. For instance how would the camera tell if a certain light condition is because there's a touch of cloud in the sky while shooting in the SH, or whether the photographer took a holiday to the NH where its just naturally a little dimmer?

This is why I don't buy it too.
I've refrained from making comments, although my initial reaction was more like Xenedis's in that why is anyone using an Auto(scene) mode on a DSLR in the first place.
In the one or two times I've used it to see what it is that they do, they were the most infuriating experiences, less so on the D70 as I could at least have some form of input, but on the D7000 I once tried a long time back, all it did was to confuse me even more!
I remember trying the landscape scene mode once and trying to figure out how to preset an aperture value, or an exposure level or something ... anything! ... and nada! .. got no response other than it simply chose it's values and that was that! and to top it all off, on a beautiful day, the exposure settings on the D7K were something idiotic like 1/400s f/11 and ISO 600 or 800 or something goofy like that! .. for a landscape shot

So irrespective of whether you are in the NH or SH, 1° north of the equator is considered northern hemisphere and 89° south of the equator is southern hemisphere those two latitudes will produce different light quality, no matter whether they are both northern based, or from opposing poles.
The quality of the light is more dependent on the latitude and time of year, so that opposing latitudes at a constant season should produce the same quality of light if the atmospheric conditions remain a constant.

The atmospheric conditions, cloud cover, prevailing weather on a given day etc .. make more of a difference to a cameras image database/metering systems, than would any slight differences between two similar(but opposing) latitudes on either half of the equator.
That is, if the camera manufacturers have programmed the camera to operate in full bore harsh summer sunlight at midday, and also still distinguish that from a solemn wintery cloud covered day and it all works similarly for any northern dwelling photog, then surely the slight difference between a NH summers day and a SH summers day will not be a hard task to differentiate between for a well programmed system

Don't make sense to me.

I'm not so sure that you can make qualitative assessments of light levels and quality between two disparate geographic locations, as the important aspects of the locations(weather conditions) would be close to impossible to scientifically duplicate. They could be the same or similar, but I doubt they could ever find exact duplication of atmospheric conditions in two different locations to make their claims.

We like to think of ourselves as a pretty smart group of people down here .. being so far removed and disconnected from the rest of the rabble and rat race that make up NH friends.
So yes! we shouldn't be using auto scene modes in our DSLRs, but for the reasons Xenedis points out

[Analog6]

This is interesting Rick, as I have found Av mode comsistently, over all the cameras I have used, over exposes for Aussie conditions. I'd never thought about it before in the light of waht you've said. Explains 'why it is so'! I always dial in an adjustment if using Aperture or shutter priority, depending on the conditions. I never use full Auto or P mode.

[ricktas]

Just wondering, aren't the algorithms all based on the light that's available ? So if the light is 5% brigher in the SH , won't the existing algorithm adapt to that?

But that is what we do not know. We have no idea if the algorithms are correct for the different light in the southern hemisphere. If you or I created an algorithm for a set of circumstances, what happens when it encounters something outside its scope of calculation?

[Steve Axford]

Mmm. Doesn't auto mode simply measure the amount of light and then decide what aperture, shutter and ISO to use? It's not a very complex algorithm and I still don't see why there should be any difference between northern and southern hemispheres. Why would our light be outside its scope?

[ricktas]

Mmm. Doesn't auto mode simply measure the amount of light and then decide what aperture, shutter and ISO to use? It's not a very complex algorithm and I still don't see why there should be any difference between northern and southern hemispheres. Why would our light be outside its scope?

If we can have up to 15% more UV than the northern hemisphere, then are the meters designed to cope with that? If not, could it not be feasible that the meters in our cameras are not able to correctly apply camera settings in auto mode, cause they are not programmed to deal with the differing light extremes we have in the Southern Hemisphere.

I am not saying there IS an issue, I am saying their MIGHT be.

[WhoDo]

Mmm. Doesn't auto mode simply measure the amount of light and then decide what aperture, shutter and ISO to use? It's not a very complex algorithm and I still don't see why there should be any difference between northern and southern hemispheres. Why would our light be outside its scope?

It's the "measuring" part that's at issue, Steve. Digital electronic devices make algorithmic decisions based on embedded programming. Does that programming account for only light intensity, or does it also include the level of UV and IR light? I know, for example, that my old Pentax Kx had a devil of a job focussing when the subject was under red light, as in IR heat lamps for wildlife for example. I can only conclude that the ability to focus was related to the degree of contrast the camera was able to detect electronically in such conditions.

Bottom line: If the algorithms are tested for accuracy of results using a quality of light that includes more or less UV, or more or less IR, then they may make decisions for the system that aren't accurate. Of course I don't know ANYTHING about the electronics and programming behind these things, so it's pure speculation on my part.

[ricktas]

... I don't know ANYTHING about the electronics and programming behind these things, so it's pure speculation on my part.

And that is it. We do not know, so the speculation in this thread is at least making for an interesting discussion and getting people talking about it, and thinking about their use of Auto mode.

[Dylan & Marianne]

I do have a use for auto mode ! ( ok I admit it)
when I'm shooting manual at a landscape often with long exposures, I set a custom mode that's kind of auto for say, if a bird flies past and I want to capture it -
It's on more or less auto with auto iso, auto aperture, just minimum shutter set at 1/400 - I'm not heading to the northern hemisphere any time soon, but for interest, I might take a look and see if we took any shots in auto in Iceland and Scotland back in 2010

[Kym]

If the balance of visible and invisible (UV,IR) light is different and the metering 'sees' the invisible spectrum then there is (maybe) an issue.

But! That would hold true on cloudy days, fog, night etc.

So the more I consider this I doubt is is a practical issue.

[Steve Axford]

If we can have up to 15% more UV than the northern hemisphere, then are the meters designed to cope with that? If not, could it not be feasible that the meters in our cameras are not able to correctly apply camera settings in auto mode, cause they are not programmed to deal with the differing light extremes we have in the Southern Hemisphere.

I am not saying there IS an issue, I am saying their MIGHT be.

Are, but that's nothing to do with auto mode. That is the metering hardware and would apply to any mode of operation. But, there are UV filters built in, so it shouldn't really be an issue. I have not noticed any major failures in light metering that would be greater here than in mistier conditions.

[mithrandir]

What about the the coriolis effect?

[fillum]

That is the metering hardware and would apply to any mode of operation.

I think Steve is correct - if there is an issue it is with the metering, not with the exposure mode. If I'm in auto and the camera gives say 1/400 and f/8 at ISO 200 and that gives me a slightly over-exposed image, then surely if I go to manual and dial in those same values I'll get the same over-exposed image? (Assuming of course no other "funky business" happening in auto).

If meters are taking into consideration non-visible light such as UV it might make a difference, but I would think manufacturers would try to avoid that happening. Maybe it happens more on cheaper cameras with less sophisticated meters? If the meter is measuring visible light I can't see how it would make any difference based on location. Although having said that, maybe the metering mode has an effect. If you're shooting evaluative/matrix the dynamic range between the subject and the surrounds may be greater in some locations than others, so by applying the correct exposure to the subject, the surrounds may be pushed into clipping?

Also, if Australia is actually brighter, wouldn't that lead to under-exposure (the "grey snow" effect)?



Cheers.

[ricktas]

What about the the coriolis effect?

the coriolis effect as it relates to Earth as a whole is more about the direction of the prevailing winds, water currents, etc and can easily be demonstrated as it is responsible for the rotation of water as it goes down a plug hole, being in opposite directions in the NH and the SH.

I am not sure it plays a part in the quality of the light we see in the SH compared to the NH. But until we know what algorithms are used in programming the metering in our cameras, we cannot be sure that any atmospheric variances that are different between the hemispheres is not included in those algorithms, and thus impacting the accuracy of any metering.

[ricktas]

I think Steve is correct - if there is an issue it is with the metering, not with the exposure mode. If I'm in auto and the camera gives say 1/400 and f/8 at ISO 200 and that gives me a slightly over-exposed image, then surely if I go to manual and dial in those same values I'll get the same over-exposed image? (Assuming of course no other "funky business" happening in auto).

If meters are taking into consideration non-visible light such as UV it might make a difference, but I would think manufacturers would try to avoid that happening. Maybe it happens more on cheaper cameras with less sophisticated meters? If the meter is measuring visible light I can't see how it would make any difference based on location. Although having said that, maybe the metering mode has an effect. If you're shooting evaluative/matrix the dynamic range between the subject and the surrounds may be greater in some locations than others, so by applying the correct exposure to the subject, the surrounds may be pushed into clipping?

Also, if Australia is actually brighter, wouldn't that lead to under-exposure (the "grey snow" effect)?



Cheers.

but IF the metering system is inaccurate for the SH then auto mode is affected as it is the metering system that determines what settings the camera selects in Auto mode. The initial post asked should we not be using auto-mode in Australia? IF the metering system is off, for the light in the SH, then the answer is probably that auto-mode should not be used.

Note that I am not saying the metering system and its algorithms are off, just that there is the chance they could be.

[ApolloLXII]

Auto mode also stands for "Idiot Mode", ie: to be used by those who know how to pick up a camera, turn it on and not much else. I had an experience at a social function where a woman was having trouble with her compact digital and not getting very good results. My partner piped up and said that I had some experience with digital cameras so I was called upon to fix her problem. I just set the camera to Auto and handed it back to her. After a few shots, the woman pronounced me to be a photographic expert () and was very happy with the pictures she was taking. Yes, auto mode has its' uses for the technically challenged but I can't see any serious photographer having to rely on it.

[achee]

Most people who religiously use Auto probably won't tell the slight difference.

X2!