Using DX lenses on FX body (for Nikon)

[mongo]

This topic has probably been raised before. But Mongo has a very specific question. So, please do not tell him about the effects or that there is no point in doing that etc. Mongo knows all of that.


Mongo does not won an FX body yet, so has to ask the question of those who have DX lenses and an FX body on hand.


Mongo has read many articles about this and not one of them has said that the FX camera will not allow you to take a image in FX mode with a DX lens attached. Indeed, they go on to talk about all the results. The only inference one can draw from that is that the FX body will let you take an image in FX mode with a DX lens attached (even if it looks like rubbish - which is of no concern or relevance to Mongo's purpose).


So, very simple and straight forward question. Can you verify that the FX body will let you shoot in FX mode with a DX lens attached ???? or will the camera always switch itself to DX mode in that case ??? if so, is there any way to override the camera to force it to shoot in FX mode with a DX lens attached.


Mongo would love a “yes” or “No” answer (or 3 of them for what now appears to be 3 questions) and which FX body you used (oops ...potentially 4 questions ....Hmmm...)

[I @ M]

The menu on a D700 allows you to set the auto DX crop mode to on or off. If set to on, the DX lens will be detected and the image area recorded will be a DX field of view image.

Some 3rd party apsc format lenses do not register as a DX lens and I have heard of FX bodies refusing to play the game and take a picture with them attached no matter which way the set up menu is configured.

Yes a Nikon DX lens can be used on an FX body, and quite successfully as well under the right conditions.

AF-S DX NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G mounted on a D700. ( but don't use the lens hood :D )

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9582534/35dx%20on%20D700_20111113_061152.JPG

[Wayne]

Andrew is spot on, the D700/D3/D3s all can have the auto DX mode turned off, and all will fire a frame when a DX lens is attached.

[mongo]

A very big thanks to both of you - that is exactly what Mongo wanted to know !!!

Only question now remaining is will the D800 have the same ability to turn off the DX detect mode ???? we shall see

PS Andrew, is that a rabbit abode that Mongo can visit and help himself to ????:D

[mongo]

You have been good enough to help Mongo answer the question without asking “WHY” so Mongo will tell you briefly what madness he has in mind.


Mongo wants the ultimate travel lens (singular - not a bag full of paperweights to drag around) oversees. Potentially, (minor barrel distortion and a few other minor imperfections and compromises aside) the 18-200mm Nikkor on an FX body could be that lens. 300 mm in DX at the long end is good enough. However, 27 or 28mm wide is nowhere good enough at the wide end.


Mongo has experimented on a full frame film camera with a wide DX lens (11-18mm) to see how wide it could go on full frame and still be very usable. The answer is 15 to 16 mm wide on full frame - pretty darn good. Hopefully these results can translate directly to FX digital cameras. However, not for the purpose of the 11-18mm lens but rather for the 18-200mm lens. The results show that there may be a little extra wide that can be had out of some lenses before they become unusable. If Mongo can get between 22-24mm wide on FX with the 18-200mm, it will be a travel lens of focal lengths of 22-24 to 300mm and that will just fine !! Happy Mongo.

[kiwi]

24-120 f/4 :-)

[I @ M]

Only question now remaining is will the D800 have the same ability to turn off the DX detect mode ????

The specs in the pdf catalogue that Nikon have released refer to compatible lenses being DX using the 24x16 image sensor area. No mention is made of the ability to turn off the auto DX crop mode but I would be highly surprised if they altered it from the current way. :confused013


PS Andrew, is that a rabbit abode that Mongo can visit and help himself to ????:D

Andrew profusely apologises but it is a home for budgerigars and the only way that Mongo would be able to sample them is if he were to do a T.Abbott and smuggle them out (http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/uploads/abbott_swim.jpg), that of course means that Andrew would be on hand to record the resulting images of Mongo for posterity and massive amounts of web publication. :D

[kiwi]

I'm a bit confused re the auto dx option

My understanding is that either off or on you can happily mount and shoot a dx lens on any fx body

With the auto option on it my understanding was that it automatically crops in camera to dx point if view, reducing mp captured

With off it shoots as is and you'll typically end up with somewhere from minor to major vignetting

No ?

[mongo]

......Andrew profusely apologises but it is a home for budgerigars and the only way that Mongo would be able to sample them is if he were to do a T.Abbott and smuggle them out (http://www.thepunch.com.au/images/uploads/abbott_swim.jpg), that of course means that Andrew would be on hand to record the resulting images of Mongo for posterity and massive amounts of web publication. :D

thanks Andrew for the extra info.

About the budgies - no budgies are worth that sort of exposure - neither for the sake of humanity nor Mongos. Budgies are off the diet (at least temporarily).

Thanks Kiwi but sorry, 24 -120mm does not potentially a 22 to 300mm travel lens make. It is also heavier and more expensive for no measurable extra advantage.


Kiwi, as far as the options are concerned , as long as that shutter goes off i.e it fires in FX mode with the DX lens, the rest is Mongo’s problem

[kiwi]

That new 24-120 sure looks like one sweet lens though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mongo]

That new 24-120 sure looks like one sweet lens though.

absolutely agree, it is a beautifully build and calculated lens for the right job. On an FX body it will probably yield 24 to 180 mm (between FX and DX modes) which is not out of the question as a travel lens if Mongo's experiment with the 18-200mm fails

[arthurking83]

AK asks .. has Mongo already acquired the 18-200mm, or are they seeking to acquire one for the purpose of travelling lightly?

(reason AK asks is simple .. look to a 28-300mm VRII as the travel lens of choice, and while it is larger than an 18-200mm Nikon, apparently it's also nicer than the 18-200mm in overall rendering ability too)

If Mongo already has an 18-200mm Nikon travel lens in the suitcase already packed to go, then AK begs Mongo's (full)pardon, and AK will recede back into the background, reading about Andrew's T. Abbot issues and contemplating a security solution for him to implement.

[mongo]

thanks Arthur - Mongo is always very happy to receive your good counsel.

Mongo has not acquired the 18-200 yet and that is why he has been asking the questions. He knows the 28-300 has a better all round review than the 18-200. However, as he has said, 28 mm at the wide end will simply not do it for Mongo. Mongo is used to 20 and 24 mm wides as his favourites and now and then uses a 14mm rectilinear wide angle. So, to go to 28 would be really disappointing and would still involve 2 lenses - the 28-300mm (and a 20mm in his pouch). That would defeat the exercise of not having to change lenses constantly.

re the security solutions - not needed in your case Arthur. However, if you did need one, there would not be any good enough to prevent you being Mongofied (and just for you, Mongo would wear budgie smugglers filled with chewed budgie carcass just to heighten the experience for both of us) :D

[fillum]

Mongo, at 18mm the 18-200 barely clears the corners of a DX sensor - with a screw-on filter attached you get significant vignetting. Of course the effectiveness at 18mm depends really on what crop format you want. For example shorter + wider (ie more panoramic) or taller + narrower (ie more square) crops from the FX sensor might work for you.

To me, the best solution might be the 28-300 that AK mentioned, plus your 20mm for the wider work (yeah I know you you said you didn't want to lug a heap of lenses around...:)). What type of camera bag are you taking? I find I can often squeeze a small prime (eg 24mm AIS) into the front pocket of a small camera bag so doesn't really add all that much to what I want to carry. Or maybe a small case for the prime that can be attached to your regular bag or belt-mounted, etc?


Cheers.

[Bennymiata]

I know why Mongo is asking this question.

He's getting a new D800, and to make sure he gets a good price and a quick delivery, he's threatened to eat the pets of his friendly camera store owner! :lol:

Love to see it when you get it Mongo.

[mongo]

thanks for the info Fillum. Mongo is encouraged to try the 18-200 on FX based on what you have said (before Mongo buys it) to see if he can squeeze a few more mm wide out of it - even 24mm would do it at a pinch. It is not so much the carrying around of a spare smaller lens (e.g. the AIs 20mm or the 24 mm f2 ) Mongo has but the changing of them frequently which is the bother - dust, lens caps , the time it takes and you might miss the shot etc etc

True Benny. However, when Mongo will get one is a very big question mark. Not even threatening to turn their pets into delicious will work this time unfortunately. Certainly not in the first round of deliveries because they are clearly oversubscribed. Mongo has spoken to a number of dealers and non are any good. Mongo is NOT prepared to enter into an arrangement whereby the dealer takes his money, cannot tell Mongo when he will get it or how much it is going to cost. That is how ridiculous it has been. Once all that sort of silly stuff is over, Mongo will buy one - maybe even overseas at that time.

[arthurking83]

...... However, as he has said, 28 mm at the wide end will simply not do it for Mongo. ....

Yeah I kind'a read that bit but skimmed over it as I made the assumption that another lens may be sought for the wider angled situations.

I don't think that the 18-200VR covers the FX frame at all .. at any focal lengths(but I don't have access to one, nor an Fx camera to confirm of course).

[Puzz1e]

Sorry for the hijack but why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person?

[ricktas]

Sorry for the hijack but why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person?

Mongo is the AP 'creature' and has always referred to himself in the third person. He also appears to have a penchant for eating anything.

[mongo]

Sorry for the hijack but why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person?


Yeah Puzzle ! exactly what Rick said !!

BTW do you have any pets and what's for dinner at your place...Hmmmmmm..........??? :D

[Bennymiata]

I agree with you Mongo.
I'd wait a month or three for things to settle down before I bought a hot new item like the D800.

The prices will come down rapidly after a few months of it being on sale, after all the "must have now" guys have had their fill, and then you can go and look and feel it over too, as well as read a number of honest test reports on it.

[I @ M]

I agree with you Mongo.
I'd wait a month or three for things to settle down before I bought a hot new item like the D800.

The prices will come down rapidly after a few months of it being on sale, after all the "must have now" guys have had their fill, and then you can go and look and feel it over too, as well as read a number of honest test reports on it.

Somehow I get the feeling that neither an over abundance of supply or "rapidly" dropping prices will occur with this body especially if the history of the D700 is anything to go by. It has historically kept high retail prices and been in demand all of its 4 year life span.

Sure there are plenty of reasons that people may want to wait a while after the introduction of a new model, possible QC issues, favourable reviews and general ownership experiences related by early takers but many of the "must have guys" are doing a smart thing in my opinion.
They will be out getting the images with the camera and those who make money from those images will scarcely feel the extra thinness in their wallet if both the camera and themselves perform to expectations.

[mongo]

George and Andrew, some reasonable points made by both of you. Mongo is leaning George's way generally for many of his stated reasons. However, Mongo is not holding off for price reduction reasons nor does he think that the D800 will necessarily be reduced in price (at least not for some time). Mongo simply does not wish to be caught up in the hype and even less in the absurd notion of reaching an "agreement" with retailers which is really no "agreement" at all. At least not while the fundamentals of delivery time and price are not present in the so called "agreement".

[rodw]

I am one of those who have put a deposit on a D800 at what I think is a hot price thqat I doubt will be repeated. I put my Fx lens kit together before the Tsunami hit last year. The week the tsunami hit I could have bought a D700 for about $2200 and was very tempted to do so because I knew stock would be hard to get. Sure enough, the price went up to $2700 and used ones were getting better than new prices. I think you will find that there is a lot of pent up demand for this camera and there will be a new videographer segment lining up to buy the D800. I would also expect that Nikon will be hurting after the Japanese tsunami and the Thailand floods and will have no desire to offer discounted prices until the D800 has a competitor in its market niche. This all leads me to believe that in the face of limited supply, the camera will mostly be on back order so the retailers won't have much incentive to cut their margins on this product compared with one in their inventory that they have laid out their own money for!

I may be off the mark, but my prediction will be that prices will rise closer to Nikon Australia's RRP of $3800 or so over the next 12 months for Aussie warrantied stock. After a 12 month tsunami induced wait, I have put an order in for one at this stage before the product is available. Time will tell.

[I @ M]

I may be off the mark, but my prediction will be that prices will rise closer to Nikon Australia's RRP of $3800 or so over the next 12 months for Aussie warrantied stock.

I think that the street price for Aussie warranted stock has been set even before the camera hits said streets. ECS (http://www.cameras.net.au/product_info.php?products_id=363) have had that price up for 4 days now.

[fillum]

Mongo, at 18mm the 18-200 barely clears the corners of a DX sensor - with a screw-on filter attached you get significant vignetting. Of course the effectiveness at 18mm depends really on what crop format you want. For example shorter + wider (ie more panoramic) or taller + narrower (ie more square) crops from the FX sensor might work for you.

Mongo is encouraged to try the 18-200 on FX based on what you have said
Actually mongo, the point I was trying to make was that for general shooting you probably won't get much more width than the DX frame - my comments about the crop probably just confused the issue.

Just to back up a bit...

In the past I've had some hard vignetting @18mm in the corners of a DX sensor when using screw-on filters. (I can't double-check at the moment as my 18-200 is overseas). This leads me to assume that the image circle at 18mm only just covers the corners of the DX frame. Although this assumption seems reasonable to me, I could be completely wrong.

But let's say for the moment that my assumption is correct. Although you can get some extra width (without vignetting) by cropping the top and bottom of the frame, you still won't get close to FX width. I've knocked up a quick diagram - note the pale blue line as a possible wider crop and the loss of image at the top and bottom of the frame.


85685


Hope this helps...(and hope it makes sense :))



Cheers.

[mongo]

many thanks Fillum for going to this trouble. It seems the best way is to just put an 18-200 on an FX camera and see what one can achieve. Mongo was hoping there would be enough AP members out there with this combination and could try it in just minutes. No luck so far but again thanks for your assistance - much appreciated .