D800 is here..

[davidd]

http://www.nikon.com/news/2012/0207_dslr_01.htm

Enjoy!

[Cyza]

They mentioned "36.3 mega pixel" six times in that one short article :D but then again it really is something to boast about.

oh so curious how Canon responds to this when the 5D MKIII comes out

[lousha]

mintos its been a long time waiting i wonder that the price is $$$$

[bgolds99]

US$3000 for the standard D800, and US$3300 for the D800E version (without the AA filter)

...and add a few hundred dollars for local price, if not more....

[knumbnutz]

.....wow, the price is competitive !!!
and 3000px wider than the D700..... that's realestate !

[reaction]

D800E seems that you can 'disable' the AA filter in camera. ie you can also enable it?
It could just be loose wording, but I read it as slightly ambiguous.

[Sar NOP]

This D800 is a true revolution : :cool:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q320/visagepale/gickrcom_cbf65644-fb18-84d4-a5dc-121d1ed6a317.gif

[triptych]

wow, you'd need to have a pretty good system to be able to handle those files! Wonder how many will also need to upgrade computers when buying this!

[bgolds99]

D800E seems that you can 'disable' the AA filter in camera. ie you can also enable it?
It could just be loose wording, but I read it as slightly ambiguous.

Yeah, i think that is just poor product description/translation.... i think the "in camera disabling" means that it is disabled permanently in camera. I dont think the AA filter can be turned on/off... If that were the case, who wouldn't buy the D800E version... for an extra 300 bucks, being able to get that extra resolution when required would be well worth it.

[I @ M]

They mentioned "36.3 mega pixel" six times in that one short article :D but then again it really is something to boast about.

oh so curious how Canon responds to this when the 5D MKIII comes out


wow, you'd need to have a pretty good system to be able to handle those files! Wonder how many will also need to upgrade computers when buying this!

Oh how times have changed, not so long ago Canon were marketing "their more mega pixels than Nikon" message loud and strong.

Back then the Nikon owners were saying much the same thing as the quotes above.

Guess what, it is simply progress and if Canon respond with a suitably impressive equivalent release of a 5D MK111 ( seeing as they all seem to know what each other is doing it is highly likely ) you guys above will probably not even blink an eyelid at having to upgrade a pc to cope with the larger size files.:rolleyes:

[fillum]

Interesting change to a more round-shouldered body shape, somewhat like Canon. Probably to assist with the transition :D.

Be interesting to see what the local prices come in at (not that it's relevant to a lot of people). (Still no local pricing on D4.)




Cheers.

[mongo]

Finally !!! Mongo gets a new worthwhile camera after an 8 year wait !!!!

[arthurking83]

20Mp too many and 4fps too slow.

Price sounds good tho, and a few full sized images on flickr I've seen also look quite OK.

An AA filter is literally a hardware filter.
It looks like a gauze type pattern etched very finely on the filter substrate. You can't see the crosshatch pattern on the filter with the naked eye, the etching is measured in microns.

You can remove the AA filter on the standard D800 if this is what is wanted, but how Nikon can justify an additional $300 expense for not including a particular part is bordering on offensive!
(They've really got their heads screwed on backward those folks :rolleyes:)


Now the problem is Nikon Aus's pricing policy.

As of 7-2-12 US$3000K equals AU$2770(or thereabouts).

That's a lot cheaper than I expected(~$4K or more) and now the D800 as is, is back on my want list depending on IQ at higher ISOs .. especially ISO6400 and 12800 compared to the D700 and D4.

This puts a lot of pressure on the price structure of the D400 now too!
They couldn't possibly justify over $2K for a D400, if the D800 is only at $3K!!

Nikon seem to suffering from pricing policy amnesia! :confused:
(they seem to have forgotten their prior history)

[image2paint]

It is my understanding that the filter is a physical layer placed over the sensor. This has been removed from the sensor in the D800E, so no its not a function you can switch on and off unfortunately.

[image2paint]

wow, you'd need to have a pretty good system to be able to handle those files! Wonder how many will also need to upgrade computers when buying this!

My gaming PC comes in handy every now and again when you need speed especially for photo editing ;-)

Does Anyone know which stores can pre-order to australia. B&H and amazon are US only and have a pre-order form for the D800 up for $2999. Adorama who do ship to Australia dont have the pre-order up yet.

I know camera pro and vanbar have local pre-orders but there prices are quite inflated.

[swifty]

A DX user moving to FX can now buy a D800 and their existing DX lenses'll still be highly useful. Afterall the D800's like having an FX + a D7000 in one so there's still plenty of resolution in DX crop. It'll ease the transition and provide a nice upgrade path for DX users who want to go FX but have already invested heavily in DX lenses. They can now slowly sell off and replace lenses over time. Nice touch.

I guess my only disappointment is the lack of pixel binning. I'd love to have the option of 9MP RAW file with excellent per pixel colour and noise qualities. I know you can do it in post but its not the same :(
That and the AF placement but its a minor quibble.

Ok.. I don't need a D800 but I really want one!!!!!

Anyone else having trouble downloading the sample pics. I think Nikon's servers' going into meltdown LOL

[image2paint]

A DX user moving to FX can now buy a D800 and their existing DX lenses'll still be highly useful. Afterall the D800's like having an FX + a D7000 in one so there's still plenty of resolution in DX crop. It'll ease the transition and provide a nice upgrade path for DX users who want to go FX but have already invested heavily in DX lenses. They can now slowly sell off and replace lenses over time. Nice touch.

I guess my only disappointment is the lack of pixel binning. I'd love to have the option of 9MP RAW file with excellent per pixel colour and noise qualities. I know you can do it in post but its not the same :(
That and the AF placement but its a minor quibble.

Ok.. I don't need a D800 but I really want one!!!!!

Anyone else having trouble downloading the sample pics. I think Nikon's servers' going into meltdown LOL

haha I thought that the site was broken at 3pm when they were released but its probably because 500 million people are all trying to DL the 20MB jpeg at the same time...

correction above ^^ B&H do ship to Australia ranging from $80-190 for the D800

[I @ M]

Does Anyone know which stores can pre-order to australia. B&H and amazon are US only and have a pre-order form for the D800 up for $2999. Adorama who do ship to Australia dont have the pre-order up yet.

I know camera pro and vanbar have local pre-orders but there prices are quite inflated.



correction above ^^ B&H do ship to Australia ranging from $80-190 for the D800

With the US stores putting that sub 3k price on that body I reckon you can safely bet that it will be in short supply for at least 6 months. As of this morning the exchange rate to OZ pesos puts it at around AUD $2800.00 and even allowing USD$200.00 for delivery it is still a bargain. :eek:
The expensive UK sellers are taking pre orders at around AUD $3500.00 so I feel that Australian retailers will start at about the $3600.00 mark as well considering that they are trying to sell D700 bodies at $2700.00 . :angry0:

[ricktas]

Interesting about the anti-aliasing filter. At present we can clean our own dust bunnies cause the AA filter is really what we wipe clean. If there is not one, then it certainly makes me wonder about cleaning the sensor. I wonder if rather than the AA filter, they are placing just plain clean high quality glass or something in front of the sensor.

I can see some gooses causing all sorts of damage to their sensors, if they wet clean it, if there is nothing at all over the sensor...hmmm

I like this camera. Think Nikon might be onto a bit of a winner with this one.

[arthurking83]

..... I wonder if rather than the AA filter, they are placing just plain clean high quality glass or something in front of the sensor.

......

Yeah, they have too, otherwise the register distance(rear of lens to sensor distance) is out my a millimeter or so and the image won't be focused correctly.

It's similar too removing the IR/UV filter, where it's best practise to replace it with glass filter to keep the image focused properly.
Image will still focus, but will be incorrect according to how you see it in the vf. Liveview focus still works perfectly tho as it's independent of the filters in place.

I'm not sure if there's enough mirror leeway to refocus the vf to match an unfiltered sensor tho .. never done it.

If I do eventually get a D800 myself, I'll retire the D300 and hand it down to my son, where I'll get back his current D70s and remove the IR/UV filter.
So I've been looking at all the options with respect to this filterless conversion, and how to best go about it. It seems simple enough to do, but the question is, whether to replace the filter with the glass cover or leave it exposed and deal with it via a mirror adjustment.


I'm not 100% sure, but I think authorised Nikon retailers are not allowed to sell Nikon USA gear(bodies and lenses) to most overseas customers any longer.
That is, you can purchase any used gear from them and they'll ok it to Aus, but not official new Nikon USA gear.
You may need a US address to have it posted too.
I think it's a regional thing they have to abide by. Like I said, not 100% sure on this .. just something I've read about.
The HK retailers don't care apparently and won't be told who to sell too .. they just sell to whomever.

[swifty]

As AK said, there is a filter on the E version, just one without AA properties.

[Xebadir]

Thom Hogan has put together an interesting review piece on most of the D800 features. Well worth a read if you want to know what all the fuss is about.
http://www.bythom.com/d800intro.htm

My D300 is already in the process of finding itself a new home AK :lol:

[kaiser]

I wonder if they've spread out the AF points to cover the frame better- that's my one gripe.

[lousha]

is there any good aust stories where i can pre order d800e my local store is charging $4500 :(. i can buy it over seas for $3400us :)

[bxaftw]

is there any good aust stories where i can pre order d800e my local store is charging $4500 :(. i can buy it over seas for $3400us :)

That is friggin ridiculous. Australian retailers need to step their game up or do nothing and accept that their business model is dying, very fast.

[lousha]

i have tried pre ordering B&H in the us i think its a scam because they said they wouldn't take the money out of my bank until shipment was ready they tried 3 times too take it out straight away :eek:. camera pro aust are taking pre orders for $3600 d800

[Wayne]

i have tried pre ordering B&H in the us i think its a scam because they said they wouldn't take the money out of my bank until shipment was ready they tried 3 times too take it out straight away :eek:. camera pro aust are taking pre orders for $3600 d800

Pre-order from the B&H website, or Adorama, and save a packet. These stores will happily sell to you and there is no scam. Don't click links to pre-order pages unless you type the URL for the store home page first and go through their store.

www.bhphotovideo.com

[Sar NOP]

is there any good aust stories where i can pre order d800e my local store is charging $4500 :(. i can buy it over seas for $3400us :)

You can pre-order at DDP (North Sydney) :
$3,000 for the D800,
$3,400 for the D800E


http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/categories/Digital-SLR/Nikon-Digital-SLR/Nikon-D800-%7B47%7D-D800E/

[Lance B]

Interesting about the anti-aliasing filter. At present we can clean our own dust bunnies cause the AA filter is really what we wipe clean. If there is not one, then it certainly makes me wonder about cleaning the sensor. I wonder if rather than the AA filter, they are placing just plain clean high quality glass or something in front of the sensor.

I can see some gooses causing all sorts of damage to their sensors, if they wet clean it, if there is nothing at all over the sensor...hmmm

I like this camera. Think Nikon might be onto a bit of a winner with this one.

From what I understand, there is still a filter on the sensor of the D800E. See Rob Galbraith's site for explanation:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11674-12304

[I @ M]

You can pre-order at DDP (North Sydney) :
$3,000 for the D800,
$3,400 for the D800E


http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/categories/Digital-SLR/Nikon-Digital-SLR/Nikon-D800-{47}-D800E/

And a nice little interest earner it is for them too seeing as how they want payment in full at order time.

They may not even have to spend a cent of your hard earned for 3 months or more. :D

[I @ M]

I wonder if they've spread out the AF points to cover the frame better- that's my one gripe.

I haven't seen that mentioned at all yet but they cured my other 2 "gripes" by giving a lower native iso and a 100% viewfinder. :)

[arthurking83]

If the images posted on DPR are accurate, then it looks to be about the same ... possibly slightly larger than the D3/D700's, but no where near the D300's AF point spread.

[dunnart]

I wonder if they've spread out the AF points to cover the frame better- that's my one gripe.

I have a D700 and this has really been my only disliked feature. However I recently read a few articles on focussing and closer focus points makes more sense when it comes to tracking a moving subject (e.g. sports, racing cars, birds in flight, etc). To take advantage of the closer focus points you have to get into doing the whole focus and recompose thing. It helps massively if you use the AF button on the back instead of the shutter button for focusing. I've set my camera up for this style of focussing (AF on/ focus and recompose). Its taking a little while to break old habits, but I think it has long term benefit. I guess I'll know in a year's time :)

[Sar NOP]

If the images posted on DPR are accurate, then it looks to be about the same ... possibly slightly larger than the D3/D700's, but no where near the D300's AF point spread.

Even in DX crop mode ?

[arthurking83]

In crop mode the AF points are fixed(if I have my info correct), so of course the spread is (pseudo) wider, and possibly equal to that of the D300.

I'm going to hack the firmware in my D300 now to allow myself an extra feature option of a Cx crop mode to give the camera an even wider AF point spread! :p

[Sar NOP]

I'm going to hack the firmware in my D300 now to allow myself an extra feature option of a Cx crop mode to give the camera an even wider AF point spread! :p

That's why I still like my D2X for birding with its Crop Mode 2x where the 9 cross-types AF points are spread on all the surface of the frame !
It's a shame that Nikon didn't offer a crop mode in the D7000 !

[arthurking83]

I wouldn't think that it makes sense (for the manufacturer) to convolute the Dx cameras with such as feature.

You can easily set up a 'crop' batch process in almost every image editing software to do the same thing, so all you need do is to shoot within the area confined by the AF points and crop on the PC.

Of course the only reason crop mode exists on Nikon's Fx cameras was because of the compatibility of Dx lenses.
And the crop mode on the D2 series was for higher speed shooting, ie. full pro frame rates(at the time).
While D7K may be a camera type used by pros, Nikon don't market it as such and would prefer they stuck with the higher priced models instead.

Maybe the D400 will be targeted towards this pro-semi pro market. If it does indeed have this 24Mp Sony sensor it has leeway for a crop mode and it needs a higher frame rate than the D7K for the sake of marketspeak!!
(if the A77 can achieve 10fps with limitations on its AF performance, then Nikon may be looking to achieve 11fps but with full AF performance or something like that)

[Butts]

Some HIGH ISO D800 (not D800E) pre production images.
Very impressive!

http://mansurovs.com/nikon-d800-high-iso-image-samples

[swifty]

I believe there are limitation on how wide the current PDAF sensors can be placed on FX formats.
Until on-sensor PDAF hits DSLRs (which I don't think will be that long) I think we're stuck with the current spread of AF points. They can cram as many as they like in the middle but there's nothing near the edge of frame. Looking at Canon's 1Dx, it looks like the same limitations.
But the on-sensor PDAF in the Nikon 1 series is a Nikon design, not Sony's so until we next get a Nikon DSLR with a Nikon sensor, we probably won't see it. It'll probably start in the consumer end though.

[Sar NOP]

I've found a sample shot at 25,600 ISO : details and noise level are incredibly good for a 36mpix !


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6339/d800sample4resize2.jpg


Crop1
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6783/d800sample4nx2crop1.jpg


Crop2
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9537/d800sample4nx2crop2.jpg


Crop3
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8319/d800sample4nx2crop3.jpg
[/quote]

[MajorPanic]

Pre ordered from BH the morning the D800 was released.

Did some hunting around & the consensus seems to be delivery in mid to late March :efelant:

[knumbnutz]

http://vimeo.com/36306101

[knumbnutz]

http://vimeo.com/36305675

[reaction]

I wonder if they've spread out the AF points to cover the frame better- that's my one gripe.

no they haven't. it's designed to cover DX view exactly like the D300.
is it true all 35mm sensor cams don't have AF points cover the whole frame?

[Tommo1965]

http://vimeo.com/36306101


wow..what you reckon that would have cost ?..some great gear and loads of manpower.....

[Xebadir]

March 18 is the US release date. I'm just waiting for a cheque and I'll be ordering mine.

[Patagonia]

Received BHPhoto email some days ago and I was wondering how it was...then I open the forum and there are 3 pages of discussion already! :) I´m really thinking on this one for replacing my D90, only concern would be the full res RAW images, how many Mbs should they have approximately?

regards

[Patagonia]

ups, just read the review quoted before...
NEF: aprox 75 Mbs
Tiff: aprox 108 Mbs

...My 2008 Macbook is already struggling with the 12 Mbs ups!

[arthurking83]

Yeah, if a 12 Mp NEF produces a 20-25Mb NEF file on the camera and PC, then 3x that will be in the order of 60-75Mb per file, if uncompressed and 14bit.

That could make CaptureNX2 run a bit sluggish on a mid to low level PC.

[bgolds99]

I'm going to wait and see what happens in the next 12 months... I'm gonna hold out and hope that a D800 sized, FF cam comes out with the D4 sensor.... I'm in no rush to upgrade. I really want FF in my next cam, but don't think i need 36 MP, and dont really want to continually juggle/upgrade my storage capacity (both CF/SD cards, and computer)

I realise others opinions will differ with this.... and Nikon probably won't come to the party... but hell, as i said, i'm in no rush.

[N*A*M]

i'm with you on the wait and see approach. i'm not in a rush because it's not going to suddenly improve my images, and will bring new issues with the rest of my imaging chain. i'm currently able to do 1m high canvas prints with 12mp now. i don't have that much wall space to cover with large prints, that i would need 36mp all the time. i'm still secretly happy that nikon just killed the competition though, even though the new bodies are not for me.

[bgolds99]

Yeah its going to be really interesting to see how Canon responds with the 5D mkIII....

[Bennymiata]

Yeah its going to be really interesting to see how Canon responds with the 5D mkIII....

I'm with you.
I'm waiting with baited breath for the new 5D MkIII, or whatever they call it.

This D800 sounds like a great camera, and even at the introductory price of US$3K, it sounds like good value.
I wonder what the price will be like 6-12 months from now, when all the "I must have one now" brigade have had their fill?

Canon will really have to pull a cat out of the bag to better it.
Mind you, they could just upscale the sensor in the 7D to FF, and turn the new 5D into a FF version of the 7D, and it would come close.

[bgolds99]

the biggest thing canon have to address is the AF of the 5D series right? even the 7D has better AF than the 5D II, so yeah, your right.... if they make a FF version of the 7D, they'd be on the money i reckon. However, i'm not sure if the AF of the 7D is quite up to the D700 and D800/D4 AF?? Whaddayaknow Benny?

[Wayne]

I'm reconsidering getting this to replace my D700 now that I have dismissed the D4 for the short term as a result of getting a steal on a D3s.

[gqtuazon]

i'm with you on the wait and see approach. i'm not in a rush because it's not going to suddenly improve my images,

During the C & P exhibit in Yokohama, they (Nikon) displayed several images comparing the D800 and D3s on various apertures using the Nikon 24-70mm f2.8 lens. Images of the D800 were actually more detailed compared to the D3s. So to answer the question, the images does improve at higher resolution at certain ISO level.

The emphasis and integration of video is here to stay. There is also a market for videographers who work for companies to produce commercials, music videos, short movies, and wedding videos that wants a HD movie capable DSLR camera. Canon used to dominate this area with the Canon 5D MkII and 7D, but not anymore.

The 36mp pictures will fit nicely once the 1440p HDTV arrives. This is a step forward into the future. Yes, if you are in the business of photography, you will need higher capacity memory cards, hard drives and a decent computer to process everything especially the HD movies. BTW, it is not cheap and it is not for everyone.

Quick view between my D700 and the new D800.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6846394331_71a99282fa_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24917880@N02/6846394331/)
Nikon D800 with D700 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24917880@N02/6846394331/) by gqtuazon (http://www.flickr.com/people/24917880@N02/), on Flickr

[swifty]

I'm going to wait and see what happens in the next 12 months... I'm gonna hold out and hope that a D800 sized, FF cam comes out with the D4 sensor.... I'm in no rush to upgrade. I really want FF in my next cam, but don't think i need 36 MP, and dont really want to continually juggle/upgrade my storage capacity (both CF/SD cards, and computer)

I realise others opinions will differ with this.... and Nikon probably won't come to the party... but hell, as i said, i'm in no rush.

That's why I think the problem with offering 36mp is not the pixel pitch/high ISO noise etc, it's the lack of pixel binning to produce eg. 18mp and 9mp raw files.

[rirakuma]

Ordered the d800 yesterday. It's gonna be a long month

[richardb]

It is so exciting. Sensor critical dimensions are far smaller than the 40 nanometer node.
16 nm has been reached last December.
Guess, next sensor features are stacks of atoms, with dimensions in angström :lol:
No worries, Canon can get any sensor from the semiconductor foundries in Jpn. Even from Korea. :lol:

[arthurking83]

I'm not really understanding the point Richard.

If you're implying that the D800's 36Mp makes for a very small pixel pitch, I think you should look to the Canon 7D, Sony A77 and others for smaller pixel pitch, tightly packed sensors!!

The D800 is basically 'middle of the road' in terms of pixel size, and 16Mp P&S cameras are far more advanced in terms of pixel spacing and count per sq millimeter of sensor surface.
I think it you created a full frame 35mm sensor with the pixel pitch of a common P&S camera the pixel count will be in the order of 150Mp or more.

I'm sure Canon is already working on a 40+ Mp sensor as we speak for release in a few years time, and unless the MF sensor manufacturers produce something new in the short term, I think that within a few more years a high end full frame 35mm sensor with exceed the 60Mp of the largest MF sensor.
(other than for marketing, I can't see why anyone would need that .. but each to their own I guess!)

[knumbnutz]

Maybe /maybe not.
FF lenses are really going to put to the test with this sort of resolution and like the Nikon1 system or the PentaxQ, the lenses arent able to be stopped down much because diffraction becomes very intrusive. Optics still have a way to go, but in the end, physics will still win out.
In the not too distant future they will easily be able to exceed what lenses can do so I think they will look at other means to increase resolution like developing a sensor that is sensitive to colours.
In the meantime, the D800 will be a nice bit of kit, along with the D4 or the 1dx, it just requires some cash.





I'm sure Canon is already working on a 40+ Mp sensor as we speak for release in a few years time, and unless the MF sensor manufacturers produce something new in the short term, I think that within a few more years a high end full frame 35mm sensor with exceed the 60Mp of the largest MF sensor.
(other than for marketing, I can't see why anyone would need that .. but each to their own I guess!)

[MajorPanic]

Has anyone checked out the price of the MB-D12 power pack for the D800?

They want $616 USD & it doesn't even come with a battery!!

[Lance B]

Maybe /maybe not.
FF lenses are really going to put to the test with this sort of resolution and like the Nikon1 system or the PentaxQ, the lenses arent able to be stopped down much because diffraction becomes very intrusive. Optics still have a way to go, but in the end, physics will still win out.
In the not too distant future they will easily be able to exceed what lenses can do so I think they will look at other means to increase resolution like developing a sensor that is sensitive to colours.
In the meantime, the D800 will be a nice bit of kit, along with the D4 or the 1dx, it just requires some cash.

Diffraction won't be anywhere near as much of an issue as people think and you will definitely see the advantage of lenses with the 36Mp sensor.

[Lance B]

I'm not really understanding the point Richard.

If you're implying that the D800's 36Mp makes for a very small pixel pitch, I think you should look to the Canon 7D, Sony A77 and others for smaller pixel pitch, tightly packed sensors!!

The D800 is basically 'middle of the road' in terms of pixel size, and 16Mp P&S cameras are far more advanced in terms of pixel spacing and count per sq millimeter of sensor surface.
I think it you created a full frame 35mm sensor with the pixel pitch of a common P&S camera the pixel count will be in the order of 150Mp or more.

I'm sure Canon is already working on a 40+ Mp sensor as we speak for release in a few years time, and unless the MF sensor manufacturers produce something new in the short term, I think that within a few more years a high end full frame 35mm sensor with exceed the 60Mp of the largest MF sensor.
(other than for marketing, I can't see why anyone would need that .. but each to their own I guess!)

The D800 has the same pixel pitch as the D7000 and the results are excellent on that camera.

[Xebadir]

Just went in to Michael's to have a chat regarding another bit of kit for my stormchasing stuff (GoPro Hero2 ;)) and ended up discussing the D800 with them. Talk is a late March delivery date, with a retailing price of $3699 - quite surprisingly low compared to my usual expectation of their inflation. I certainly won't be buying there but was interesting to note ;).

[Lance B]

Just went in to Michael's to have a chat regarding another bit of kit for my stormchasing stuff (GoPro Hero2 ;)) and ended up discussing the D800 with them. Talk is a late March delivery date, with a retailing price of $3699 - quite surprisingly low compared to my usual expectation of their inflation. I certainly won't be buying there but was interesting to note ;).

That's very expensive when compared to local on-line retailers like DD Photographics which are advertising the D800 for $2,999. I wonder how they can justify a $700 premium!

[Xebadir]

Because they do it with everything else they sell as well ;).
The 20% up front deposit is slightly more friendly than DDP - which requires that payment in full up front. Slightly annoying that, but I suppose the good price is the grab line there.

[I @ M]

If you really want to see optimistic, have a look at Vanbar, not only are they anticipating slugging you top dollars for the body they further add insult to injury by trying to say that you can pay an extra $700.00 for the "E" model.

http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/index.php?item1=CAMERAS&item2=NIKON&item3=Digital-SLR&brand=

[ricktas]

Because they do it with everything else they sell as well ;).
The 20% up front deposit is slightly more friendly than DDP - which requires that payment in full up front. Slightly annoying that, but I suppose the good price is the grab line there.

DDP must be doing really well with all those payments of almost $3K. Which they can invest and earn interest on, till the camera is released. Nice little earner for them for a few months. Would rather keep my $3K and earn my own interest on it, and then buy once the camera is available

[arthurking83]

..... Would rather keep my $3K and earn my own interest on it, and then buy once the camera is available

:th3:

Not only that, but in about 6-8 months after release, once the hype has been satisfied, the street price will be closer to $2.5K and I'll also get one.
total saving will be closer to $1K.

I won't buy anything based on speculation and hype .. waiting to see real images before I make a purchase decision.

Diffraction is a funny thing. In most circumstances most people will never notice the actual effects.
It's really only in high magnification situations(eg. macro)where diffraction comes into play and other methods of increasing DOF need to be employed(focus stacking).

It's a pity actually, as the number of megapixels the D800 has, is one of those features that most people will never really use to full effect!

Nikon once held the belief that Dx was a better solution for those that want or need the extra 'magnification' of cropping.
They then introduced a full 35mm frame digital camera that made sense in the real world, and have since made back flip after back flip about where Fx is eventually headed.
It won't be long before the D4's successor will also have too many pixels too! :rolleyes:

.. anyhow, we wait to see real images from real cameras.

[I @ M]

Well, Nikon have been quick to announce prices on it and the usual suspects are milking it for all it is worth --

Teds $3799.95

Vanbar $3911.60

and somewhat more realistically

ECS $3425.00

Seeing as all 3 are listed as "pro" body and lens dealers and that they get a slightly better buy price and rebate than your everyday shop the first 2 dealers are planning to buy Caribbean island resorts on the profits.

Having seen the buy price for a non "pro" dealer today it only once again reaffirms the fact that Australia is being screwed by Nikon when the USA can buy it at much much better prices and even a bricks and mortar grey importer in Australia can still sell it at the same price as the USA.

:angry0::action::angry0::action::angry0::action::angry0::action::angry0::action:

[Wayne]

If I were pre-ordering I would just buy from B&H, because the DD offer is the same grey product but you pay now. Wouldn't surprise me if DD were buying at a wholesale price with a small markup from a USA dealer as even HK and SG markets often can't beat USA pricing.

I think ECS has a pretty good price for a local pro bricks & mortar store, and as much as I am an advocate for shopping overseas if that is where you get the best price, I recently bought my (arriving today) D3s from ECS at an unbeatable price. It was cheaper than I could have landed one for from the USA, and the guys there were excellent to deal with, so if considering local stock, I am sure you will get looked after at ECS.

[swifty]

FYI Digidirect $3431
Nikon on Broadway $3430

[Tommo1965]

there's a bloke in Perth that is retailing grey imports..a member here made me aware of him..as such his on-line prices are very very keen...selling the 70-200VRII for $2037.. that's about a grand less than I paid for mine !!!...dunno if I can put a link to his site or not..but if rick say yes then Ill post it...if not PM me for the link...he is also selling D700 for $2264....no price on the D800 yet..but it is listed so Id expect he will he will list the price once it becomes available ...a D3s is $4607 !!

[ricktas]

there's a bloke in Perth that is retailing grey imports..a member here made me aware of him..as such his on-line prices are very very keen...selling the 70-200VRII for $2037.. that's about a grand less than I paid for mine !!!...dunno if I can put a link to his site or not..but if rick say yes then Ill post it...if not PM me for the link...he is also selling D700 for $2264....no price on the D800 yet..but it is listed so Id expect he will he will list the price once it becomes available ...a D3s is $4607 !!

of course you can. You have over 50 posts and as long as the link relates to the discussion, it is allowed.

[MALCEB]

I cant wait to see what pictures it produces, ill get play with my newly picked up d700 for now and might upgrade in 12 months :P

[rodw]

Hi guys, I put my money down ($300) with *removed - see site rules 3-7* last Thursday

I decided I would buy my body from an AU dealer and I know the AUD is high but I thought by the time you add GST, their price was quite reasonable.

[mongo]

remember when buying from overseas you must allow 10% duty which will come to at least another $300. So, in the end it will probably cost the same as having bought it in Aust.

Remember when buying grey imports in Aust e.g. from DDP for $3000, it has no factory warranty. So, again, if you buy an after market warranty for it (probably between $200 - $300 at a guess) it will cost pretty close to what it would have cost if purchased from a normal retailer with factory warranty.

[Tommo1965]

cheers Rick

heres the blokes site..I contacted hem yesterday and asked about the price of the D800..he reckons under $3000 as for warranty they look after it themselves...might be worth a look....dunno what a Au nikon warranty is on bodies is it 12 0r 24 months ...

http://mycamerafocus.com.au/

must admit I wouldn't buy without a factory warranty on such a new product..after a few runs have been done and the bugs ironed out they will be worth a punt...but as with a lot of new cameras recently most have issues as not a lot of QC is done these days and a rush to get these things out could add to that...but after a few decent reviews of a production model and a few months down the track..expect to see a keenly priced D800 and with no potential problems ..

Im never gonna be a early up-grader again...I did that with a Pentax K5 and regretted it until I got the refund..Ill be keeping hold of my D300s until the D800 had been properly used for a good few months and if people still rave over it...I might buy one

[Wayne]

People need to understand that grey or otherwise, if new, it will come with a factory warranty. Places like B&H will stand behind products they ship to Australia if you need to make a factory warranty claim, you just need to get it back to them. The worst case scenario, you **may** have to send it back to the country of origin for service, which may cost a few $ for postage both ways, and that cost is almost certainly far less than what you originally saved, and that is on the slim chance your item needs warranty at all.

I had to send a body back to an overseas dealer and it was just over $100 return, insured. I saved $1000 on that body Vs local pricing.

With D800 pricing locally being only a few hundred $$ more than USA pricing, then yes if you had to pay freight + GST upon import, then buying locally would mean the same nett cost with local support, so clearly local stock is the better option, and it is nice to see that the message must finally be getting through to local distributors and retailers that the world is now a shopping mall as close as your keyboard, so to get our business they need to sharpen their pencils.


a D3s is $4607 !!

DWI is almost $300 cheaper, and ECS did even better than that on my Aussie body.

[gqtuazon]

Computer upgrades such as external hard drives will be necessary especially if you shoot HD videos at higher resolutions. Technology is advancing and it is unavoidable. From what I have read, f8 would be the sharpest or optimum aperture. You'll start to see less sharp images if you view it at 100 to 300% view. For your typical print images, you might not see the difference.

36.3 mp will be enough once the release they 1440p monitors! :eek:

[I @ M]

People need to understand that grey or otherwise, if new, it will come with a factory warranty.

Which factory warranty?
Nikon USA will only provide their 3 year warranty to purchasers of bodies who reside within the USA or have a US address.
Asian sourced units will be generally be repaired at the dealers expense and most of those dealers will offer a 12 month warranty.
A Mack extended warranty will probably set you back between $150-$300.
At this stage it appears that Nikon Aus. is still offering a 2 year warranty on FX bodies.

[Wayne]

Which factory warranty?
Nikon USA will only provide their 3 year warranty to purchasers of bodies who reside within the USA or have a US address.
Asian sourced units will be generally be repaired at the dealers expense and most of those dealers will offer a 12 month warranty.
A Mack extended warranty will probably set you back between $150-$300.
At this stage it appears that Nikon Aus. is still offering a 2 year warranty on FX bodies.


The warranty that Nikon USA used to fix my D3 when I bought it from B&H and sent it back with 10 actuations on it for calibration as it was front focusing on all of my glass out of the box.
See here;
http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/333 nothing about only valid to USA residents.

Asian sourced units will be repaired in country under warranty in most cases as well. I know people who have bought from Nikon HK dealer, and returned to HK Nikon service centre under warranty.

[I @ M]

Wayne, yes the USA warranty covers/ed your D3 for 12 months, as I said the 3 year warranty that is applied ( or extended warranty as Nikon call it ) is only available to US residents or addressees.
Asian sourced units sold by B&H, Adorama etc. will not be serviced by Nikon USA either under warranty or out of it (http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/331/related/1). The dealer has to then send it back to the Asian source after you have returned it to them and absorbs the costs.

My post was meant to highlight that not all Nikon factory warranties are the same and by offering a 2 year warranty on FX bodies and a slight sharpening of the pencil, Nikon Australia is attempting to woo more customers away from international / grey purchases.

[Wayne]

Thanks Andrew makes more sense to me now. That 2 years extended warranty from Nikon USA isn't a freebie either... They have certainly sharpened their pencil on the D800, and as I just got my D3s, I am considering selling off the D700, adding the US$1k and getting a D800. I can see my Amex shaking as it sits in my wallet, so close....

[MajorPanic]

If you're gonna get a D800 you better pick-up your game!

http://www.bythom.com/


As usual Thom comes up with some good thinking.
Have a look at the sub article half way down called Shot discipline.
All things that we should know and do but probably don't

[OdinsChild]

God I can't wait for this bad boy to arrive considering I'm upgrading from a D60....kinda like getting a Ferrari and trading in the barina :-)

[MajorPanic]

Yup! I reckon about mid-April if the release is March 22 as suggested........ seems like years away :(

[NGP]

the Nikon D800 should be available in the coming weeks.. for those who are interested in Australian stock feel free to follow our new FB page.. for those who still resist social networking our pricing will be $3400.. feel free to email me direct for further inquiries..

https://www.facebook.com/pages/NG-Systems/266152830068626

[Sar NOP]

With two years warranty, NGP ?

[rodw]

For those who want to familiarize themselves with the D800, here is a link to the Nikon Flash based tutorial:
http://www.nikondigitutor.com/eng/d800/index.html

[Kym]

Pixel density is a curse !!!

See: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm The Limit of Diffraction :eek:

The D800 has a very reasonable density, more mega-pickles are not necessarily good.

[Sar NOP]

As the D800 has lower pixel density than the D7000, it shouldn't have any issue with this 36mpix sensor.

[Lance B]

Pixel density is a curse !!!

See: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm The Limit of Diffraction :eek:

It won't look any worse than the D700 at the same aperture, just that you may not see as much benefit as with lower aperture numbers under say f8/f11.


The D800 has a very reasonable density, more mega-pickles are not necessarily good.

As Sar says, it has the same pixel density as the D7000/Pentax K-5, so it will be at least as good as their results.

[rodw]

It will be interesting to see some real world results as I suspect as others have said it will still be sharp as there are other examples of similar pixel density. I was once told that film was equivalent to 22 megapixels. I was surprised to see that Nikon had gone well past this limit. I am no videographer but from what I read, I concluded that the choice of 36 mp was setting the D800 up for full HD video.

It was interesting to digest the links and play with the calculators and it was indicated that it was not anything to be concerned about.

[I @ M]

It seems ( not unexpectedly ) that a lot of 'net chatter is focussed on the mp yield of this new model.

Take a step back and look at the other very worthwhile changes / improvements that have been made to the camera. Look at the metering, the viewfinder, focussing attributes, lower native iso level, video capabilities and whatever other "secret sauces" that Nikon have seen fit to include in the camera.
Consider those changes first and then look at the number of mega pickles it has because even with the sensor size it will still be a bargain if it improves on the D700.
It isn't all that long ago that Nikon owners were tut tutting and shaking their heads at Canons "outlandish" 22 mp of the 5D Mk11 but times move on, the sky didn't fall inwards and nobody can say honestly that the 5D Mk11 isn't a capable camera producing excellent images. Yesterdays technology is old news and we have moved onwards and upwards, what we are seeing now is still the infancy of digital.

[Kym]

I was once told that film was equivalent to 22 megapixels. I was surprised to see that Nikon had gone well past this limit.

And that would be a wrong statement on face value! (Assuming you mean 22mp = 135 format film and thus the same size sensor as the D800)
A bit like answering 'how long is a piece of string?' with a definitive '10 metres' which my son did when he was 8 years old.

It depends on the grain of the film stock (lumpiness of the chemicals) which can be seen with high ISO film have much more graininess.
Grain ~ noise, but they have completely different visual characteristics.

[jim]

A bit like answering 'how long is a piece of string?' with a definitive '10 metres' which my son did when he was 8 years old.



I always say "six inches" when people ask me that.

Anyway, just got my Pro Optic (Samyang) 14 F2.8 in anticipation. So now I have to buy the camera.

[arthurking83]

..... I am no videographer but from what I read, I concluded that the choice of 36 mp was setting the D800 up for full HD video.

.....

The the total number of pixels on the sensor is irrelevant when shooting video.
From what I've read so far, the video ability of both the D800 and D4 are both full HD ie. 1920x1080.
And also, they both have a slight crop(from what I've read) .. so whether they're doing some form of pixel binning or whatever I don't know.
HD video is only 2Mp worth of sensor photosites, so there are a lot of 'wasted pixels' from the D800 when shooting video(same as D4).

D4 is only 16Mp and still does full HD too.

There is currently work on a new higher resolution video format called UHDTV which will require 33Mp of active photosites on the sensor.
This was briefly touched on as a topic in a video link I once found to the inventor of the digital sensor.

Nikon's prior issue with doing full HD video on their cameras has been that of data bandwidth from sensor to media card.

[rodw]

And that would be a wrong statement on face value! (Assuming you mean 22mp = 135 format film and thus the same size sensor as the D800)
A bit like answering 'how long is a piece of string?' with a definitive '10 metres' which my son did when he was 8 years old.

It depends on the grain of the film stock (lumpiness of the chemicals) which can be seen with high ISO film have much more graininess.
Grain ~ noise, but they have completely different visual characteristics.

Grain, noise, lines per inch, pixels per inch are all different yet limit picture size/quality but if you Google "how many megapixels film", there are plenty of sources and the consensus seems to be around 16-24 mp for 35mm so my original post was not that far out. I seem to remember it was based on 50 ISO Velvia which I thought was a fine grained film (yes I am old enough to remember film grain and my disappointment from using 1000 ISO film on some fijian fire walkers as even 6x4s were very grainy).

I might add that the mp count has had nothing to do with my decision to pony up for the D800 as having worked in the printing industry's for years I understand the intracies of digital photo reproduction and 6 mp covers off on most needs (except perhaps when publishing a 2 page magazine spread, which I have found to be a limiting factor with my D40). Personally, i would have been much happier with 18-24 mp FX but for the total package, i reckon i am on a winner.

I am still intrigued as to why Nikon went to such a dense sensor count so maybe it is to do with kingarthur's UDHTV or is it just sticking it to their competitors? I'd've really like to know the answer to this question.

[I @ M]

I might add that the mp count has had nothing to do with my decision to pony up for the D800 as having worked in the printing industry's for years I understand the intracies of digital photo reproduction and 6 mp covers off on most needs (except perhaps when publishing a 2 page magazine spread, which I have found to be a limiting factor with my D40). Personally, i would have been much happier with 18-24 mp FX but for the total package, i reckon i am on a winner.

The number of mega pickles didn't influence me much either, I am quite happy with 20x30 prints from 10MP and any of the numerous AP members that have seen said prints will probably agree. Time moves on and if they can deliver results at 36mp then bring it on. :)


I am still intrigued as to why Nikon went to such a dense sensor count so maybe it is to do with kingarthur's UDHTV or is it just sticking it to their competitors? I'd've really like to know the answer to this question.

They already surpassed their competitors ( at a price premium :( ) with the D3x and 24 mp so if the extra resolution is as good as expected then they have nothing to worry about. They are after all a company that is required to earn money ( profit ) and not a benevolent institution for photographers but if history is correct they have a habit of being a little late to the game but at least when they get there the product is polished. :)

[NGP]

With two years warranty, NGP ?

it comes with Nikon Australia's standard product warranty..

[arthurking83]

.....

I am still intrigued as to why Nikon went to such a dense sensor count so maybe it is to do with kingarthur's UDHTV or is it just sticking it to their competitors? I'd've really like to know the answer to this question.

By the time a small bodied device such as an SLR camera is able to digest and convert the required pixels into a usable video stream.. in say 10 years time .. it seems that the average sensor will be containing something in the order of 100 Mp or more(at the current rate of change!!).
DSLR's current ability to process the data for a UHDTV output is nowhere near what is required both in terms of throughput and also storage(unless you store the data on a separate device, which the D4 and D800 are capable of). You'll need terabytes of card space to process such a high pixel count for a reasonable amount of shooting time.

I noted an article on DPR about a new UHDTV sensor just announced.
These sensor types will obviously go into high end dedicated video devices to begin with, and the photography camera makers will eventually follow suit in the years to come, as it seems this will be what the general public is asking for! :confused:

I'm also a bit disappointed with the pixel count of the D800 and would also have preferred to see a higher quality higher ISO output such as what will be expected of the D4.
20-24Mp would have sufficed, but I guess there are those that really need to print 'noise free' at ISO1600 and A2 print sizes.

From my recent history of shooting, I've worked out that I may never need more than ISO12K for 99% of my shooting needs, and I really would have liked to see the D800 with very clean images at this point.
I'm not criticising, as we have yet to see what the D800 can actually do .. so I'm going to wait until it proves to be able to do what I want in the immediate future.

I saw some raw converted images on a French site a week or so ago, and they looked quite good even compared to the D3s .. comparable in many ways, but to me the D3s had better colour rendition(less grey noise).
Problem tho is that the D800 is still under embargo when it comes to the freedom to post images from it. The French seem to flaunt this NDA rule, where Nikon aren't allowing images to be posted without Nikon's consent. This is because the camera firmware is yet to be finalised and polished.
(note that the French and Nikon have been at war since early this year with leaked info on the D4, and Nikon have shunned the French in general due to this .. so the French seem to fighting back :confused013)
Most well natured folks in the loop are claiming that the D800 is similar to the D3s in overall noise terms(when the image is viewed at a predetermined size), but at 1:1 pixel level the noise is more obvious in the D800.
Because of the issue of firmware, the images can't be taken at face value as most of the noise reduction is a product of the firmware, so until the D800's software is finalised any images appearing on the net are not indicative of what the final camera will be like.

[image2paint]

God I can't wait for this bad boy to arrive considering I'm upgrading from a D60....kinda like getting a Ferrari and trading in the barina :-)

Me 2 ! Im upgrading from a D5100... Cant wait to get the keys to the new Ferrari

[Xebadir]

Have placed a pre-order for the D800 with NGP - deal was simply too good to pass up, adding to the fact he is a site sponsor and its Nikon Aus stock ;).

[knumbnutz]

I have finally decided to dip in and get a D800 when possible.
I was looking through the 5Dmk3 and within about 1min decided it definitely wasnt what I was looking for.
Ergo's turned me off, especially the "rate" button, which reminded me of the "print" button that was on some cameras years ago.
Not having a rear dial except for the big thing on the back, sort of looks like one of those DJ record things for "wha wha" noise :)
Well i'm sure canon user will like it and the ISO performance looks good but then I can easily say the same for the D800 and its cheaper.

[MrBling]

Had a play with one a couple of weeks ago, all of you lucky enough to get your hands on one are going to love them.

[rodw]

Don't know if you have seen it but there's a link here on the Nikon site where the designers of the D800 give their take on it.

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/scenes/32/

On the second page they say


Hara: "The D800 has an effective pixel count of 36.3 megapixels, but that doesn't mean it can take pictures only at that size. There are three image sizes – large, medium, and small – and you can choose the one that suits your needs. In FX format, the large size enables shooting with about 36.2 megapixels, while about 20.3 megapixels are used for the medium size, or maybe if you're taking snapshots you'll find you can get by with the small size, which is about 9 megapixels. Both the medium and small settings use data from the full extent of the 36.3-megapixel sensor optimally processed to a smaller size using EXPEED 3. Therefore, we suggest selecting medium or small for normal use and choosing large only for, say, group portraits or very high resolution landscape shots."

I thought this was interesting given the big focus on 36 mp on the net!

[Lance B]

Just had word from my supplier of the D800 that Nikon should recieve them into Australia on March 23, 2012. Hopefully, they should have them in store a few days later, and as an official Nikon seller, I am hoping that they get them before other sellers as I am 5th on their list. :D

[I @ M]

I am 5th on their list. :D

Which in all probability means that you are 4005th on the list in Australia. :D

[Xebadir]

Which probably puts you about 60005th on the world list - should get your copy somewhere in Mid June :P.

I'm also 5th on a list so it will be interesting to see what the pre-order filling is like in Australia. Just quietly I hope it becomes available to ship for the 23rd as that would make an already excellent day even better ;).

[geoffsta]

Don't know if you have seen it but there's a link here on the Nikon site where the designers of the D800 give their take on it.
http://imaging.nikon.com/history/scenes/32/
On the second page they say

Hara: "The D800 has an effective pixel count of 36.3 megapixels, but that doesn't mean it can take pictures only at that size. There are three image sizes – large, medium, and small – and you can choose the one that suits your needs. In FX format, the large size enables shooting with about 36.2 megapixels, while about 20.3 megapixels are used for the medium size, or maybe if you're taking snapshots you'll find you can get by with the small size, which is about 9 megapixels. Both the medium and small settings use data from the full extent of the 36.3-megapixel sensor optimally processed to a smaller size using EXPEED 3. Therefore, we suggest selecting medium or small for normal use and choosing large only for, say, group portraits or very high resolution landscape shots."
I thought this was interesting given the big focus on 36 mp on the net!

Yes but a big V8 in a car is useless if you are just cruizing around. But the power is there when you need it.

[arthurking83]

Just had word from my supplier of the D800 that Nikon should recieve them into Australia on March 23, 2012. Hopefully, they should have them in store a few days later, and as an official Nikon seller, I am hoping that they get them before other sellers as I am 5th on their list. :D


Which probably puts you about 60005th on the world list - should get your copy somewhere in Mid June :P.

I'm also 5th on a list so it will be interesting to see what the pre-order filling is like in Australia. Just quietly I hope it becomes available to ship for the 23rd as that would make an already excellent day even better ;).


LOL!

... each store will probably only get a limited consignment of only four for now due to high worldwide demand! :p

[arthurking83]

Just had word from my supplier of the D800 that Nikon should recieve them into Australia on March 23, 2012. Hopefully, they should have them in store a few days later, and as an official Nikon seller, I am hoping that they get them before other sellers as I am 5th on their list. :D


Which probably puts you about 60005th on the world list - should get your copy somewhere in Mid June :P.

I'm also 5th on a list so it will be interesting to see what the pre-order filling is like in Australia. Just quietly I hope it becomes available to ship for the 23rd as that would make an already excellent day even better ;).


LOL!

... each store will probably only get a limited consignment of only 4 bodies just for now, due to high worldwide demand! :p

[Xebadir]

Lol, I said that in an email to my supplier when I pre-ordered - that by being 5th I was hoping the first shipment was 5, not 4 ;).

[I @ M]

I thought this was interesting given the big focus on 36 mp on the net!

Rod, the megapickle count of cameras has always been a selling point since the fairly rapid explosion of sensor technology after the "birth" of digital cameras.
Sure, many comments on the 'net have focussed on the resolution of the D800 but in general I think they come from people that are at best ill informed and at worst just those who like to see their name online at a forum or blog.
The actual megapickle count of the D800 is relatively modest compared to the larger format cameras / digital backs that have been available for quite a while now.
What makes it attract the attention it has is that the sensor is a 35mm format and the cameras price.
As for the different size images that are available from the camera, the D# and D### series at least have long had the ability to select between 3 image sizes in jpeg and then again 3 different levels of quality for those settings.
As I understand the physics of it all, those sizing parameters in the D800 are no different to the previous models and will not apply to nef files.

[rodw]

I@M, thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure that the designers were referring to JPEG files. I will be very interested to make my own judgement on the performance of the D800 and if I will shoot in JPEG or RAW. Technology is advancing very quickly and we may find that yesterday's view that RAW was the way to go will not still hold into the future. I also think we should consider the environment we are shooting for. For example, why do we need to bother with 12 bit Colour depth and the associated 4096 colour shades if shooting for print in publications when the offset press is only capable of displaying about 50 shades or even less if on newsprint. I suspect for the majority of my photos, I will prefer to let the Nikon technology do the work for me because I am shelling out a lot of money to access the technology!

Having said that, it may also be interesting to see how well Lightroom 4 can be set up for default RAW conversion as if that is good, I may run with RAW.

Moving up from a basic Nikon to a pro (or is it prosumer?) camera will be quite a big technology step but with a very good understanding of digital image file formats and Colour gamuts, I am looking forward to applying that knowledge to the D800.

[RRRoger]

The D4 has already left Japan for Europe and is supposed to arrive March 15th.
Hopefully the D800 is in the same shipment and will arrive worldwide very soon.:)

[swifty]

It seems a lucky NPS Aussie has his D4 already. So things look to be on schedule.

Rather than start another D800 thread, I'll jz discuss this here.

As many of you probably have been following info on the D800 like myself, one area of concern to some and as a direct result of the large pixel count is the frame rate. It's probably the only spec worse than a D700.
But since it'll do 6fps with the additional grip, getting the data off the sensor is obviously not the bottleneck. Neither are supporting electronics as the grip only adds additional power. The shutter/mirror system can also obviously handle it too because those aren't changed.
One has to wonder why the limitation?

I'm not sure if this had been resolved with the D300/D700 since they both share the same characteristics boosting fps with grip.
But it seems the D700 and D300 can be tricked into more than 6fps (although not quite 8) without the grip with some clever custom settings. Not something I've tried myself cos I have no use for the faster frame rate but there are YouTube videos showing this.

So is this frame rate limitation purely marketing??

[rodw]

So is this frame rate limitation purely marketing??

Bound to be. At work we have a $200k output device which is the bottom of the range in terms of performance and there are three levels above it. The only difference between models is a software license that controls the speed of the device. The software upgrade costs about $50k per step. So for another $150k, I can double the speed of the device.

I would not be surprised at all if the limits between models are controlled by a variable in the firmware of the camera!

[arthurking83]

.....
But since it'll do 6fps with the additional grip, getting the data off the sensor is obviously not the bottleneck. Neither are supporting electronics as the grip only adds additional power. The shutter/mirror system can also obviously handle it too because those aren't changed.
One has to wonder why the limitation?

.....

This faster 6fps frame rate is only in DX mode AND with the grip attached or with 'other power sources' as quoted by Nikon. This could mean that with the grip attached and the EN-EL18 battery fitted it may achieve the 6fps rate, but again only in Dx mode.
In Fx mode the 4fps restriction still applies irrespective of power source used.
Without the grip attached and in Dx mode again, it'll do approx 5fps.

It's obviously a power source/CPU processing limitation although why it only advances by 1fps with the higher capacity power compared with the standard battery seems odd.
the D300/700 series advanced from 6fps to 8fps with the more powerful batteries attached(that I remember).

I suppose that we're going to assume that this frame rate applies to both 14 bit as well as 12 bit capture mode.

The D3x's frame rate dropped from 3fps in 12 bit mode to 1.5fps(barely) in 14 bit mode .. same with D300(but even more of a drop by comparison)

Someone did the math a while back and at 75-100Mb(real) file size, even considering the the compression to NEF and subsequently 40-50Mb file sizes, at 4fps this equates to 200Mb/s data bandwidth anyhow!
This is far more than any current memory card can pass through it's electronics and into storage!
Maybe with update to the D800s/x or D900 and the inevitable switch to the XQD format, they may be able to up the frame rate to sustain more than 1 or 2 sec bursts! :p

(NEF's are a compressed TIFF format and need to be processed into the NEF format. This obviously takes CPU cycles and hence power, and more power to the CPU means more reliable data integrity with no BSODS and so forth ... remember we're talking Nikon here ... not Canon! :lol2:)

I very rarely use the 6fps capability of the D300, but when I do, it's a god send. I generally tend to stick to 3fps in Cl mode and sometimes find that it's a limitation in some situations and simply move the mode switch to Ch .. easy!
I stopped shooting in 14 bit mode even for landscapes as I found the 1fps frame rate, even for landscapes, felt like wading through molasses. almost painful!

4fps sounds borderline, and I've never felt that I've needed more than 5 or 6fps.
The restriction of the higher spec frame rate in only Dx mode is a bridge that'll have to be crossed when the time comes.(I can't see it being a problem for me .. I think :confused013)

[swifty]

This faster 6fps frame rate is only in DX mode AND with the grip attached or with 'other power sources' as quoted by Nikon. This could mean that with the grip attached and the EN-EL18 battery fitted it may achieve the 6fps rate, but again only in Dx mode.
In Fx mode the 4fps restriction still applies irrespective of power source used.
Without the grip attached and in Dx mode again, it'll do approx 5fps.

It's obviously a power source/CPU processing limitation although why it only advances by 1fps with the higher capacity power compared with the standard battery seems odd.
the D300/700 series advanced from 6fps to 8fps with the more powerful batteries attached(that I remember).


Hi AK,
My bad. I thought the 6FPS was in FX mode with grip.
It makes sense now and the bandwidth looks to be indeed the bottleneck for the FPS.
I still don't get how the power affects the data coming off the sensor though. Its not like a motor drive for film where the extra power cranks the film winder quicker.

[swifty]

OK.. jz checked the specs and a D700 can do 8FPS (up 3FPS) at full FX resolution with grip whilst the D800 can only do 6FPS in DX mode only (up 2 FPS) with grip.
Confusing.
But the D700 can be tricked to do around 7FPS without grip which is why I don't buy the 'camera needs more power to increase FPS' thing.

[Xebadir]

Its more to do with buffers and the reality of file size - with a 36 Megapickle raw file you are going to struggle to get that through because of the limitations of card and processor - it doesn't take many shots to reach a gig throughput which is far and away above the reality of storage. This isn't meant to be a speed FPS camera - and personally it doesn't worry me ;).

[RRRoger]

If it is a bandwidth (200MBs) limitation, why can't we get more frames per second when shooting JPEGs?

I think the camera is dumb down not to compete with the D4.

[swifty]

Its more to do with buffers and the reality of file size - with a 36 Megapickle raw file you are going to struggle to get that through because of the limitations of card and processor - it doesn't take many shots to reach a gig throughput which is far and away above the reality of storage. This isn't meant to be a speed FPS camera - and personally it doesn't worry me ;).

I guess before this discussion get side tracked, I just want to clear up that I'm not saying the D800 should or shouldn't have fast framerates. It is what it is, just trying to figure out why? For my personal shooting, I rarely even get out of single shot mode.

Anyways.. back to the topic. I agree it has everything to do with the 36MP that is limiting the frame rate. I'm just trying to figure out where the bottleneck is in offloading this huge amount of data.
Frame rate is all about bandwidth in getting this data off the sensor. I don't think it has anything to do with the buffer nor the card speed. These things are both further down the imaging chain.
The FPS will affect the rate the buffer fills up and the card speed will affect the rate at which the buffer clears. The CPU (EXPEED) would logically then come before the buffer since changing shooting formats (jpeg or RAW) affects the number of frames that can be stored in the buffer. ie. if in JPEG the CPU would be converting to jpeg and offloading the smaller files into the buffer which can accomodate more frames before filling up.
But the data from the sensor would go through the ADC (on-sensor I believe for the Sony exmor sensors) and be read off through the data channels. This is probably where the bottleneck would be if there was one, the speed at which the data can be read-off.

Where the confusion lies is me wrongly assuming the D800 can do a 2FPS increase at full resolution where it can only do so in DX. This makes sense since a smaller area of the sensor contains less data to be read off.
But what's less clear to me is how the increase in power (from accessory grip) helps this offloading of data from the sensor. Greater voltage perhaps.
I think AK is probably correct in that it might be the CPU holding up the amount of data that can be offloaded and an increase in power (and perhaps voltage) to the CPU can increase its performance. But do RAW files get processed at all in the CPU?
And Expeed 3 appears to be able to handle far more than what the D800 can throw at it. A Nikon V1 can do 60FPS at 10MP RAW + jpeg with a standard battery (EN-EL3 I think). That's a lot more data

At least in the D700 with 'just' 12MP it appears the bandwidth is not limited and perhaps it is a dumbing down via firmware but in the case of the D800 with 3X the MP, the data's getting held up somewhere.

[rodw]

If it is a bandwidth (200MBs) limitation, why can't we get more frames per second when shooting JPEGs?

I think the camera is dumb down not to compete with the D4.

Remember that the camera first copies the raw data from the sensor to the buffer and then I would expect a secondary background task would copy the photo from the buffer to the card and apply whatever JPEG processing that was specified by the camera settings. The card write will be a lot slower than the write to the buffer in the camera main memory, so there is plenty of time to do the processing while the copy is being done.

This explains why the camera speed is dictated by the amount of data that needs to be transferred OFF the sensor to get ready for the next shot, not by writing to the memory card which can lag behind quite significantly.

[RRRoger]

Voltage can be related to water pressure.
Higher voltage forces more data thru the pipeline.

[swifty]

Remember that the camera first copies the raw data from the sensor to the buffer and then I would expect a secondary background task would copy the photo from the buffer to the card and apply whatever JPEG processing that was specified by the camera settings. The card write will be a lot slower than the write to the buffer in the camera main memory, so there is plenty of time to do the processing while the copy is being done.

This explains why the camera speed is dictated by the amount of data that needs to be transferred OFF the sensor to get ready for the next shot, not by writing to the memory card which can lag behind quite significantly.

Shooting in jpeg does increase buffer depth, not FPS however so I would theorize the EXPEED has converted the data to jpeg before being temporarily stored in the buffer.

[arthurking83]

If it is a bandwidth (200MBs) limitation, why can't we get more frames per second when shooting JPEGs?

.....

As with other cameras ... they all have a set bandwidth irrespective of jpg or raw file type.

eg. D300 shoots at 6fps irrespective of file type set.

The usual difference between shooting jpg or raw is only in the allowed buffer ability, not the frame rate per se.

That is, the buffer is a preset size and speed. you shoot the same amount of raw files or jpg files in terms of fps, but with jpg you can continue shooting for longer as the buffer size permits.
On most high end Nikon's(D300 and above that I know of) this can be up to 100, or in some cases unlimited.

again as an example of this in the real world. D300(s) allows up to 100 continuous jpgs at 6-8fps, but the D7K may not have this 100 capacity continuously.
D7K shoots at the same frame rate as the old D300, but it's buffer only allows say 9 RAW frames continuously, whereas the D300 allows the ability to shoot over 20 continuous RAW frames at the same 6fps rate.

Why shooting in jpg mode compared to raw mode makes no difference to fps is most likely because even in jpg mode, the camera is still shooting in raw mode, but only saving the files as jpgs.
The camera always captures raw data(they all do!) but the CPU then has the task to save the raw file as <insert file type here> and then buffer it to memory before sending the file to the card.

So even those cheapo point and shoot cameras shoot in raw mode, it's just that they may not offer the ability to save as a raw file type.

As for more power doesn't equate to more processing speed, this is clearly the opposite.

if you've ever seriously overclocked a PC, you'd know that up to a certain point you can overclock the CPU, but then beyond this to minimise the risk of corrupted data, you then NEED to increase power to the CPU(or RAM, or GPU).

Nikon obviously have a certain amount of leeway with the CPU ability in the D800, and could possibly eke out a frame or two more per sec, but this may also cause data corruption from the files as the CPU begins to run unstable. Nikon certainly wouldn't want to push the camera beyond that point, and have people complain about lost images.

[Lance B]

Even though the D700 can do 8fps with grip but at only 2 fps behind, the D800 @ 6fps in DX mode is quite adequate when you consider that many sports photogs require "reach" and will therefore want to use it in DX mode and a shorter long lens rather than FX mode and a longer heavier lens. Many pro sports photogs use the D3/D3s, D300/D300s and D2h etc for the very reason of reach.

[rodw]

Here is a new link that has some sample images (well a lot actually). Follow the link to the samples
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/03/14/nikon-d800-test-shots-captured-and-posted
Follow the link on this page to the samples on this link
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d800/nikon-d800A7.HTM

I know there have been a few samples posted on the net before but I have not othered with downloading them.

If you are running Photoshop you will need to update your camera raw plugin to the new beta on this page to be able to open D800 NEF files
http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/cameraraw6-7.html

I could not get Lightroom 3 to open the NEF files but the DNG converter on the Camera raw link above does convert the files.

Some file sizes I came up with from one of the samples:
RAW as downloaded 43.2 Mb
JPEG as Downloaded 17.1 Mb
Tiff uncompressed 103 Mb
TIFF with LZW Lossless compression 51 Mb
DNG 37.2 Mb

Not quite as bad as I thought they would be.

[rowdy23]

i can see a few people in this thread with intentions of getting the d800....
as great as it will be... lets hope these people have pro glass to put in them.. as a 36mp sensor will req very nice glass to get the full quality from it. i dont see sigma cutting the mustard... pro nikon... zeiss....would be best .

[MajorPanic]

I can't foresee I'll have any problems with the Holy Trinity ;)

[rodw]

i can see a few people in this thread with intentions of getting the d800....

I was at Camerapro this afternoon (shhh don't tell anybody but I was there to check out the new Canon 5d mkIII :oops:) and they said they had over 200 pre-orders for the D800. Glad I am up near the top of the list. Jesse reckons people who have not pre-ordered will be waiting for about 4 months to get their hands on one. This is what I expected, that the camera will be on permanent back order for quite a while and the reason why I put my money down.

[I @ M]

It seems a lucky NPS Aussie has his D4 already. So things look to be on schedule.

Schedule??? Is that word even in Nikons dictionary? :D But back to the point, having seen a the "lucky" mans work it would appear that he is a sport photographer primarily ---- related points below.


Rather than start another D800 thread, I'll jz discuss this here.

As many of you probably have been following info on the D800 like myself, one area of concern to some and as a direct result of the large pixel count is the frame rate.

I suspect that those who are concerned by this massive flaw in the D800 are the ones that probably have the least need or understanding of a camera in the first place. :rolleyes: For people such as the NPS member who just took delivery of his D4 in time for the Melbourne F1 GP, the thought of having only 16 megapickles to capture images at 10 fps probably caused him to curse Nikon for building yet another inferior product. After all he really wanted 36 megapickles at 20 fps -------


For my personal shooting, I rarely even get out of single shot mode.

Yep, that sums it up, you (and I) want umm have to have umm need a D800. ;)

[ricktas]

i can see a few people in this thread with intentions of getting the d800....
as great as it will be... lets hope these people have pro glass to put in them.. as a 36mp sensor will req very nice glass to get the full quality from it. i dont see sigma cutting the mustard... pro nikon... zeiss....would be best .

Not necessarily. My Sigma 24-70 is the sharpest lens I have SOOC. I am really looking forward to putting it on the D800 and seeing how it performs.

[Sar NOP]

The user's manual is available here : http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/dslr/D800_EN.pdf

[rodw]

The user's manual is available here : http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/dslr/D800_EN.pdf


Cool, I've been looking for that every now and again. Here is a link to an video interview with Jim Brandenburg after a month with the D800 which you might find interesting.

http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/videos/reviews/532147/a-month-with-the-nikon-d800-exclusive-interview-with-jim-brandenburg.html

After watching it, I'm a bit worried about my choice! It is a lot of camera for an ametaur! :oops:

[MajorPanic]

The user's manual is available here : http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/dslr/D800_EN.pdfThanks for the link :cool:

[I @ M]

Here is a link to an video interview with Jim Brandenburg after a month with the D800 which you might find interesting.

http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/videos/reviews/532147/a-month-with-the-nikon-d800-exclusive-interview-with-jim-brandenburg.html



Very good bit of advertising in that video but if he is being ridgey didge then the camera is a really excellent tool.

[gqtuazon]

Cool, I've been looking for that every now and again. Here is a link to an video interview with Jim Brandenburg after a month with the D800 which you might find interesting.

http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/videos/reviews/532147/a-month-with-the-nikon-d800-exclusive-interview-with-jim-brandenburg.html

After watching it, I'm a bit worried about my choice! It is a lot of camera for an ametaur! :oops:

Thanks for the link.

It just means that we need to exercise more precision to perfect our skills.

[rodw]

Thanks for the link.

It just means that we need to exercise more precision to perfect our skills.

I agree. There is a lot of technology today that makes us lazy. Being forced to focus on technique learnt with film decades ago won't be a bad thing. I was interested in his comments about Auto modes, JPEG's and Active-D.

[bxaftw]

where is the cheapest aus stock pre order for this camera?

[rodw]

where is the cheapest aus stock pre order for this camera?

It's not what you pre-order at, but what you end up paying. :D:D

Some homework is required, but don't pay over about $3,400 and if you are really lucky, you might screw the price down to $3,000 or a tad less.

[arthurking83]

....... I was interested in his comments about Auto modes, JPEG's and Active-D.

Active D-Light is known to work very well.. but at the expense of full control over the image. That is, ADL has been known to alter the cameras parameters to some values it deemed to be more appropriate.
In every day shooting this is not an issue, but if there was a 'scientific requirement' for any of the camera's settings to be shot at precise values, ADL could compromise that precision.

I'm fairly sure(but not 100%) that when Jim Brandenburg meant "auto modes" he was referring to shutter/aperture or Auto ISO modes .. not so much scene modes as many people would instinctively think of.

Reasons I'm thinking this is because the D800 will not have any of the usual array of Auto scene modes that most folks associate with the term "Auto modes".
I tend to view these so called semi auto modes, such as aperture and shutter priority as semi manual modes!(you're still required to make a conscious, manual decision for at least one variable!! :)).
Either way, it's the same definition, just a different way of looking at it.

Nothing wrong with shooting jpgs. There is always some extra detail available in a raw file that can't be rendered in an in camera jpg, but when that last 1% of image quality is simply not an important consideration and speed of workflow is, then jpg can be an appropriate file type to use.(just ask any sports photographer!)

[rodw]

Arthur, thanks for your observations, what you say about Auto makes sense. I've never used the scene modes but it is very interesting to hear somebody of Jim's stature saying the camera is smarter than he is and how small the difference is between RAW and JPEG. I think as technology advances, we need to keep reassessing what file formats we use.

[I @ M]

where is the cheapest aus stock pre order for this camera?

I feel that anyone ordering one now will be waiting till at least the 2nd delivery of bodies if not the 3rd. Demand is enormous for this body. Forget about trying to find one at a cheap price as some of the stores that set a low price to start with have already increased their prices due to demand.



Some homework is required, but don't pay over about $3,400 and if you are really lucky, you might screw the price down to $3,000 or a tad less.

$3400.00 ish seems to be the generally accepted street price for an Australian delivered body. As I mentioned in the post above, the prices are already rising at some stores due to demand.
To put it simply Rod, I reckon you are dreaming if you reckon you can buy an Australian delivered body under the street price within the first 6 - 12 months.

[rodw]

ITo put it simply Rod, I reckon you are dreaming if you reckon you can buy an Australian delivered body under the street price within the first 6 - 12 months.

We'll see, some of us put our pre-orders in before the RRP was announced by Nikon and the street price was established so we had not agreed on a price. At that time, my vendor said he would price match so there is a conversation that I will be having. However, if you are ordering now, that conversation probably is not going to go anywhere.

The rest of your comments I agree with. The reason I went with a pre-order was becasue I though that there would be so much demand that it would always be on backorder so there would be no reason for the vendors to discount the price so I do expect prices to rise. Pre-Tsunami you could have got a D700 for about $300 less than today's price so there is some volatility in the street prices over time.

[I @ M]

We'll see, some of us put our pre-orders in before the RRP was announced by Nikon and the street price was established so we had not agreed on a price. At that time, my vendor said he would price match so there is a conversation that I will be having.

Yep, that "some of us" includes our order for 2 bodies placed well before prices were released by Nikon and in fact even before there was a stock # in their system. Having seen the "buy" price for a non Nikon pro dealer if your retailer is going to price match the grey importers he is either very generous and wealthy or determined to go out of business ----
I have already heard stories of some larger retailers telling their early orderers that they weren't quite as "early" as they initially thought and that they will have to wait for the "next" shipment --- at a dearer price of course. :rolleyes:

[Redgum]

What a premium we pay for time! In just six months the D800, like most camera bodies before it, will probably be at least 20% cheaper. At the end of the year I'll be able to get two bodies for the price of one. Thank you early adopters, you've just saved me a fortune. :)
And for those who can't do firmware updates buying early can be a hazard.

[bxaftw]

I was just curious to see what the real world price is/will be, to compare with canons offering. I'm not a nikon user.

Your observation is correct redgum, however for many, time is more valuable than the premium they pay.

[Redgum]

Your observation is correct redgum, however for many, time is more valuable than the premium they pay.
Oh! You mean those over 70? :D
In reality time has no value it's just what you do with it. Buying a new camera body doesn't come into that league. :)

[rodw]

I think timing all depends on individual circumstances, in my case I was invited to write a few paid articles for a magazine which also required some photography and found 6 megapixels a limiting factor. Single page spreads were OK, but double page spreads were out of the question. I looked at buying a body 12 months ago and agonised over the FX v's DX decision and eventually decided to go FX. I think you need to make this decision for springing for the lenses or you won't get a good focal length footprint. I found out there was a replacement for the D700 on the way so I decided to spend some money on lenses and wait it out. Now I have a good selection of FX lenses so I need to buy the body to go with them to capitalise on my investment on glass. Sure I could buy a D700 but would you choose older technology at this point on the technology curve?

Whilst 36 mp is more than I wanted, it does lend itself to my desire to move from technical style writing to more travel and landscape material which the D800 will shine for.

I seriously doubt that the D800 price will fall any time soon as Nikon AU appear to have dropped their margins, Nikon JP need the cashflow after Tsunamis and floods and the competition has entered the marked at a $450 or so premium. There were 60 people in Brissy for a demo of the D800 and about 20 for the demo of the 5D Mk III. Canon I think has a much greater production capacity than Nikon and the size of their first shipment in Australia suprised Canon Australia, so there will be plenty of supply.

If my chosen dealer has over 200 pre-orders for the D800 then Nikon's 30,000 per month production capacity won't go very far around the world!

If there is going to be any market pricing adjustment, I would expect to see the 5D Mk III come down in price particularly if Canon AU is stuck with surplus stock that is not moving as they will have Canon JP breathing down their back about sales performance!

As you say, time will tell but what's a firmware upgrade or two between friends?

[swifty]

Even if demand wasn't through the roof for a D800, I highly doubt we'll see a 20% discount for street prices even if supply finally catches up. Let alone a 2 for today's price type of scenario.
IMO the D800's already aggressively priced and 20% off puts it at $2400 USD and 50% discount puts it at $1500 USD. It would be nice but I somehow doubt it.
I think $2400 towards end of life (2016) would be more likely or 2014 if a D800s appears mid-life.

[Redgum]

Even if demand wasn't through the roof for a D800, I highly doubt we'll see a 20% discount for street prices even if supply finally catches up. Let alone a 2 for today's price type of scenario.
IMO the D800's already aggressively priced and 20% off puts it at $2400 USD and 50% discount puts it at $1500 USD. It would be nice but I somehow doubt it.
I think $2400 towards end of life (2016) would be more likely or 2014 if a D800s appears mid-life.
History doesn't support that statement at all. Given an RRP of $3400.00 now for the D800 it's a reality that in six months the price will be $2720.00. Just look at the price of the D700 and it had a dramatic fall in the dollar during that period. I bought a new D700 (second one) six weeks ago for $A1790.00. The D800 will go the same way to be sure.
Just look at my D3x. Originally just under $12k, two years later they were around $6k and now under $3k. Almost the same debate people have over cars.

[Redgum]

I think timing all depends on individual circumstances, in my case I was invited to write a few paid articles for a magazine which also required some photography and found 6 megapixels a limiting factor. Single page spreads were OK, but double page spreads were out of the question. I looked at buying a body 12 months ago and agonised over the FX v's DX decision and eventually decided to go FX. I think you need to make this decision for springing for the lenses or you won't get a good focal length footprint. I found out there was a replacement for the D700 on the way so I decided to spend some money on lenses and wait it out. Now I have a good selection of FX lenses so I need to buy the body to go with them to capitalise on my investment on glass. Sure I could buy a D700 but would you choose older technology at this point on the technology curve?

Whilst 36 mp is more than I wanted, it does lend itself to my desire to move from technical style writing to more travel and landscape material which the D800 will shine for.

I seriously doubt that the D800 price will fall any time soon as Nikon AU appear to have dropped their margins, Nikon JP need the cashflow after Tsunamis and floods and the competition has entered the marked at a $450 or so premium. There were 60 people in Brissy for a demo of the D800 and about 20 for the demo of the 5D Mk III. Canon I think has a much greater production capacity than Nikon and the size of their first shipment in Australia suprised Canon Australia, so there will be plenty of supply.

If my chosen dealer has over 200 pre-orders for the D800 then Nikon's 30,000 per month production capacity won't go very far around the world!

If there is going to be any market pricing adjustment, I would expect to see the 5D Mk III come down in price particularly if Canon AU is stuck with surplus stock that is not moving as they will have Canon JP breathing down their back about sales performance!

As you say, time will tell but what's a firmware upgrade or two between friends?

Rod, as some here would know I'm a publisher for a national glossy mag and a shooter for National Geo (have been for close on 30 years). Don't get hung up on megapixels, in the real world they have little bearing on your work if you are a good photographer. I've been shooting stuff for billboards on the D700 for years (12.1mp) and no one has complained. My D3x is better for studio stuff but that's pretty rare these days.
A full frame camera is great for most mags but I have to admit a lot of stuff I receive for publication is further down the chain.
As for the Brissy demo it just goes to show there are still a lot of tyre kickers out there.
Business wise, even with depreciation, there's little value in buying at the top of the market.
Like all technology, prices will drop rapidly, particularly when Nikon include the same sensor in their next consumer release.
BTW: Firmware upgrades can make a hell of a difference particularly if the manufacturer fixes or activates a feature that wasn't ready at point of release. Happens regularly.

[swifty]

Hmm.. How did u buy a new D700 for $1790. Think many of us would like to know your secret ;)
Are we comparing Aussie stock with Aussie stock or RRP at launch in Aust vs cheapest world wide prices? If the latter, then it's not exactly a fair comparison.

As for the D3x, probably better to use the D3 and D3s as historical indicators since they were popular models (like the D800 will be) and unlike the D3x.
Again using apples to apples comparison, can't remember what the D3 or D3s was priced at at launch but think its around $7k? Has it been sold anywhere near $3500 new for Aussie stock?
If so... Oh mannnm I missed out. If its still available at around $3500 can somebody please tell me where I can get one at that price.

Lastly, the high end models have far greater margins. And hence the ability to discount.
How low can it cost to make a D800 given an FX sensor can cost up to 20x a DX one although I'm sure Sony's improved their yields quite a bit which would translate to cheaper FX sensors.

[swifty]

Actually I hope you're right. A D800 at $2720 would be pretty hard to resist :) I hope my wife don't read these boards.

[swifty]

Hang on, did u write D3x under $3k??!! Where?!!

[JM Tran]

Rod, as some here would know I'm a publisher for a national glossy mag and a shooter for National Geo (have been for close on 30 years). Don't get hung up on megapixels, in the real world they have little bearing on your work if you are a good photographer. I've been shooting stuff for billboards on the D700 for years (12.1mp) and no one has complained. My D3x is better for studio stuff but that's pretty rare these days.
A full frame camera is great for most mags but I have to admit a lot of stuff I receive for publication is further down the chain.
As for the Brissy demo it just goes to show there are still a lot of tyre kickers out there.
Business wise, even with depreciation, there's little value in buying at the top of the market.
Like all technology, prices will drop rapidly, particularly when Nikon include the same sensor in their next consumer release.
BTW: Firmware upgrades can make a hell of a difference particularly if the manufacturer fixes or activates a feature that wasn't ready at point of release. Happens regularly.


I have to agree with Redgum about the MP thing.

Since when has 6MP not adequate for a 2 page spread lol, I have seen it used for 40x30 inch or 45x30 inch prints and it still looks fine.

[rodw]

I have to agree with Redgum about the MP thing.

Since when has 6MP not adequate for a 2 page spread lol, I have seen it used for 40x30 inch or 45x30 inch prints and it still looks fine.

I appreciate what you guys are saying. It's been a while since I had my printing business so technology may have changed but neither we, or any other commercial printer I knew had any luck upsampling photos. The industry rule of thumb was DPI should be 1.5 - 2 times screen resolution on an offset press. So given an average screen resolution of 150 lines per inch (which is probably low by today's technology), we can get away with 225-300 dpi in a photo. This is why most printers want a 300 dpi photo. Yes the rules are made to be broken, but an A3 spread would see it down to about 175 dpi once you allow for bleeds and before any cropping occurs which is cutting it pretty fine by my book. These days, the use of stochastic screening may extend this a bit further but not by much.

Continuous tone Photo Prints are another matter, and certainly any of my 6mb pics print fine on 320x450 mm (oversize A3) on a calibrated graphics arts quality Colour CMYK laser output device. With one of these output devices around, I've never bothered with traditional enlargements.

So I guess it is me saying 6 mp is not good enough, 12 would have been enough but the market has moved past that plus I get a quality video camera for free! In any case, the deal is done, as I set my direction over 12 months ago when the D800's specs were unknown. To back out now means I don't have the right lenses for a DX.

I really am looking forward to getting my hands on this D800 and expect to have one in the first batch because I pre-ordered within 3 days of its release. I guess the good thing is that the $6-7k I've allocated to photo gear over the last 18 months ( including this purchase) has been fully funded, the lenses are to hand, I ordered the memory cards today based on the specs in the manual and Rod's camera fund has recovered enough to buy this body.:D

Some may think I'm wasting my money, but it is mine to waste and whilst I am not a pro, I've had an SLR since 1982, and do have a handle on the technical aspects of photography and the D800's resolution is playing into my hands with what I want to do in the future even if it exceeds my minimum requirements while addressing the weaknesses of a bottom of the range digital body that I have found frustrating trying to produce shots I've got paid for.

[Redgum]

Rod said
Some may think I'm wasting my money, but it is mine to waste and whilst I am not a pro, I've had an SLR since 1982, and do have a handle on the technical aspects of photography and the D800's resolution is playing into my hands with what I want to do in the future even if it exceeds my minimum requirements while addressing the weaknesses of a bottom of the range digital body that I have found frustrating trying to produce shots I've got paid for.
Rod, I don't think anyone is suggesting your wasting money, in fact to the contrary, buying a D800 should give you lots of pleasure. My comments centre around timing. Buying now, at premium price, can never be a worthwhile asset. Buying in six months time is a different scenario. And the FX lens will still fit. :)

[rodw]

Rod said
Rod, I don't think anyone is suggesting your wasting money, in fact to the contrary, buying a D800 should give you lots of pleasure. My comments centre around timing. Buying now, at premium price, can never be a worthwhile asset. Buying in six months time is a different scenario. And the FX lens will still fit. :)

Nah, the deeds done :) and the only DX lens I have is the kit lens that came with my current body. If we were talking $10k, maybe the wait may be worth it, but the time is right for me now and the price difference will likley be paid for by then. Sometimes when you wait to execute a plan patiently, you need to get it over with so you can get on with life instead of dreaming.

[I @ M]

What a premium we pay for time! In just six months the D800, like most camera bodies before it, will probably be at least 20% cheaper. At the end of the year I'll be able to get two bodies for the price of one. Thank you early adopters, you've just saved me a fortune. :)
And for those who can't do firmware updates buying early can be a hazard.

Sorry, I simply can't agree with that.
A working "pro" shooting 6 days a week for Nat Geo ( even "pros" need the seventh day off to relax or to take the dog for a walk or something ) will be quite happy to be using their new body, making fabulous amounts of money and earning interest on said money for 6 months while those who wait for the ( speculated ) price drop may be missing out on some of the advantages that newer technology offers.

Of course, if you aren't one of those highly paid pros and simply want ( and can afford ) a new body to fulfil your gear lust then why even consider it, just go ahead and buy when you want.

The scenario works all round for me.

I really really for the life of me fail to see where the firmware comment has any relevance whatsoever to the thought process.
Nikon firmware updates have always in my experience been a very painless 10 minute process and in all likelihood most people purchasing a D800 will have been through the job on previous cameras. Those that don't have a clue about doing it can always take it back to their friendly local dealer who as part of their service in selling the camera to you at a massive price premium will be quite happy to to the firmware upgrade for you.
It aint rocket science and the Nikon sites where the firmware upgrade can be downloaded from usually go into pretty good detail about how one performs the job.

Another interesting point with pricing, a well known grey importer who announced pre orders at $2999.00 has now raised their prices by $300.00 -----

[rodw]

I think some of you guys will be waiting for a while for both stock and a price reduction. See here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57400052-1/nikon-expects-d800-shortages/
And
http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/nikon-d800-appears-in-amazon-best-sellers-list-1072221

Let's face it, you only drop your price due to competive pressures or your sales volume is not high enough. While demand exceeds supply, don't expect to get a discount by deferring your purchase. If I was Nikon, I'd raise prices until demand balances supply. That's basic economic theory and sound commercial practice.

[image2paint]

Ive got a D800 on pre-order, and it will bring me a lot of pleasure when it does arrive. I cant wait!

I think price drops etc. for these new FX cameras don't really apply in the classic sense. If you look at the D700 which came in at around $2999 in 2008, it was still selling for $2700 in february/march 2012 !!! and use D700 for $2200 on ebay. Ive read forum's where its been said Nikon has said if you are only just putting your order in for a D800 it may not be filled till about August.

The D800 is a unique DSLR as it is the highest pixel count FF DSLR available on the market. If you want one, don't wait 6 months in the hope that it will drop $200 or something... because the D800 most likely won't be dropping in price any time soon. The demand for this camera is going to trend on for a long long time... I predict it will still sell for $3300 in 2013

[I @ M]

I think price drops etc. for these new FX cameras don't really apply in the classic sense. If you look at the D700 which came in at around $2999 in 2008, it was still selling for $2700 in february/march 2012 !!! and use D700 for $2200 on ebay.

Why would anyone pay $2700.00 for a new D700 or even more so why would anyone pay $2200.00 for a s/h body when they are available brand spanking new at Australian b&m official Nikon Aus stores for $2425.0 drive away no more to pay with a 2 year warranty?

[rodw]

Nikon sent me an email yesterday to say the D800 is "I am in store now" with a list of suppliers and links to the stores web page for the D800. There is quite a price range in the various stores.

Apparently, Nikon will be closing for a stocktake next week so there will be no more shipments until 1 April.

Apparently, pre-orders by NPS members have preference over us mere mortals so most of us might still be waiting for a while longer, but I live in hope!

I agree totally with I@M. Why would you buy a used D700 over a new one and why would you buy a new D700 instead of a D800 that offers so much more than a few extra Mp?

[Tommo1965]

im still waiting for redgum to say where you can get a brand new D700 for $1790..as I want one for that money


Ive downloaded a few raw image examples from the new D800..and other than the movie and dual card slots im not sure there's a lot of advantage over the D700..to be honest at 100% pixel peeping the D800 files looked softer than the D700 , viewed at the same screen size I may add.......Im waiting to see what DXO comes up with in respects to added DR of the D800..if it has a lot more DR..that would seal a deal rather than the MP increase ...

one other point...I use a I5 Intel with 4 gig ram..CS5/ light-room...and no question a 36 m file has a huge impact on workflow....everything you do with them takes longer... de-noise / sharpening even opening the file etc....a current I7 processor wont add much to a increase in pc power either ..I already use a ss hardrive and the PC has a very recent clean install too

[I @ M]

Tommo, forget the megapickels in any comparison between the 2 cameras and concentrate on the other refinements of what was already an excellent camera in the D700.
Think about the other positives that the D800 offers in the way of focus ability, 100% viewfinder, improved metering and expanded iso range.
They alone mean that for us it is a worthwhile addition to rather than an upgrade from the D700.

The D800 is clearly not meant to replace the D700 as an all round camera and is obviously not suited to being used as a spray and pray machine but rather as a body that you use for deliberately calculated and set up shoots. Landscape and portrait photographers are flocking to it.

I for one am not in the slightest bit worried about processing times or storage of images and the ones that do start complaining about those issues maybe need to reassess whether the D800 is the camera that they want need.

[image2paint]

Why would anyone pay $2700.00 for a new D700 or even more so why would anyone pay $2200.00 for a s/h body when they are available brand spanking new at Australian b&m official Nikon Aus stores for $2425.0 drive away no more to pay with a 2 year warranty?

The D700 was for sale in jan/feb for $26-2700 from authorised Nikon Aus dealers... I watched many used D700's go for over $2000 on ebay during february because I was interested in buying one in january but had been following the rumors of the feb7th D800 announcement and waited. Of course that price has come down the $200 you mention since the D800 announcement on feb7th. Even so, I@M you still are compounding my point... that a 4 year old camera is still selling for 81% of its original asking price, which is amazing.

I personally would not buy a D700 right now. I was merely pointing out to people who are thinking of waiting 6-8 months for a price drop in the D800 for them not to hold their breath for any significant amount if the slow price drop of the D700 is anything to go by.

[I @ M]

Even so, I@M you still are compounding my point... that a 4 year old camera is still selling for 81% of its original asking price, which is amazing.

I never doubted that at all, if you read back through a post or two of mine in this thread you will see that I felt that the D800 will stay at a high price point for a long time.
I merely thought that your figures and dates were a little bit out of whack as in your post above you were saying that the D700 was selling in Feb / Mar this year for $2700.00 and seeing as it is still March and at least one b&m Aus Nikon dealer has had it for sale at $2425.00 for a month now the low price has been set.
Also, the D700 retailed at release ( and for quite some time while it was in short supply ) for $3400.00 and not $2999.00 so I too expect the D800 to maintain current retail prices for at least 12 months.

As for anyone considering purchasing a D700 at the current price point, it is one heck of a good camera, didn't suddenly stop taking great pictures and at todays retail level a positive bargain.

[Tommo1965]

yep Andrew.. that's what I was probably trying to say, its the other refinements that the D800 might bring that will get me excited...the extra MP isnt really doing it for me...and the extra time taken to PP the larger files will affect some people....Im not a wedding shooter or a machine gunner...hell I don't even thing my D300s has ever been out of single shot..LOL...so ill never be processing hundreds of images...

[rodw]

I got this in an email from my supplier today. No camera for me yet unfortunately, but I expected that.


Over the past few weeks, information from Nikon has been difficult to obtain, however last night and a little ahead of schedule, Nikon announced that stores would be stocking the D800 from today.#As you have probably already gathered, pre-orders in Australia have far outstripped supply, and will continue to do so for some time. The initial shipment from Nikon has been incredibly small to all stores, however the good news is that stock has been advised to be shipping every 7-10 days presently, and shipment quantities are expecting to increase in size into April.

I agree with the other comments that the technology advancements are of more interest than the megapixels.

[swifty]

If there are any more doubters still around, D800 just got DXOMarked.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/News/DxOMark-news/The-Nikon-D800-is-the-new-king-of-DxOMark-with-a-score-of-95
Not that it's the be all and end all of tests, afterall each photographer needs to work out what's best for him/herself but this should be a pretty strong endorsement.
My only problem is I've never come close to exceeding the capabilities of my D700 so surely this thing would be wasted on me lol.

[ricktas]

Must add, that whilst auto sensor cleaning is not new, or perfect, after shooting with a D3 these past few years, which is the biggest sensor dust collection vessel known to mankind, I am looking forward to my first auto sensor cleaning camera. It will (hopefully) just be another one of the benefits of having a D800.

[arthurking83]

I've been playing around with D800 files for the past week, and so far using both CNX2 and VNX2(both 64bit) there is a slightly noticeable slowdown in processing between D300 and D800 NEFs.

A highish ISO NEF from the D300 set with a medium level of develop level noise reduction in CNX2 too 15 sec to save the NEF file with that NR applied .. and instantly saved again if the NR was deactivated.
A 4-5x larger NEF from the D800 set with the same amount of NR took 30 sec to save the NEF file with NR applied and took a sec or two(ie. slightly slower) to resave the file with the NR deactivated.

Using my preferred method of NR via an edit step there seemed to be less difference in saving the NEF images.

This is my first foray into actually looking at processing times for images from the D800, I've mainly concentrated on image quality(which looks a lot better than I expected).

You would expect processing times to be slower, and considering that the average file I have from the D800 samples out there are in the 50Mb range, where the average image size on the D300 files I'm using for comparison are in the 11-14Mb range for now .. but can balloon out to over 20Mb if required.

My PC is now a two year old AMD x4 running at 3Ghz or so, with 8G ram.... and old hat standard(but speedy) magnetic hard drives.

With CaptureNX2, my experience is that if you have fast hard drives and good ram speed, you get quite fast operations from the software .. images all load in about 1-5sec depending on location and whether it's still in the cache file. Not enough difference between the D300 and D800 images for opening and applying most edit steps, but it seems that processor speed is required for noise reduction when using CNX2.
(of course VNX2 doesn't have NR).

[arthurking83]

And as I remember the Australian list price for the D700 when released and for a while after that was closer to AU$4200 or so.
D300 was in the AU$2700-2800 range for at least 6 months after release.

These are Nikon Aus RRP's, and the cheapest price I found grey was from the now defunct PhotoBuff Melb based grey retailer at $2300.

Back then tho AU-US exchange rates were much less advantageous for us Aussies!

[TEITZY]

D800 prices are going UP in the UK and some saying it may happen in other countries. Based on current demand I can't see any reason why prices should drop significantly in the next 12 months especially if the $AUS drops. Looks like I'll be able to afford one in about 2015 at this rate :D

Cheers
Leigh

[image2paint]

If there are any more doubters still around, D800 just got DXOMarked.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/News/DxOMark-news/The-Nikon-D800-is-the-new-king-of-DxOMark-with-a-score-of-95
Not that it's the be all and end all of tests, afterall each photographer needs to work out what's best for him/herself but this should be a pretty strong endorsement.
My only problem is I've never come close to exceeding the capabilities of my D700 so surely this thing would be wasted on me lol.

WOW is all I can say

[Bchip]

This is certainly shaping up to be one heck of a camera, and most likely the camera that would make me jump to FX, although I don't think I'd part with the D300s anytime soon.

I do have a silly question though. Would the D800 still have the same amazing low light capabilities when it's in DX crop mode? Does the DX crop mode only effect resolution?

[rodw]

I do have a silly question though. Would the D800 still have the same amazing low light capabilities when it's in DX crop mode? Does the DX crop mode only effect resolution?

The crop mode does not really change anything. It just uses part of the sensor so that the image that would have fallen onto the rest of the sensor is thrown away so you are left with 15 mp. I can't see how that would affect the low light performance. It's a bit of a waste of the sensor though!

[swifty]

It depends on how you evaluate noise.
On a per pixel basis, using an FX camera in DXcrop mode has no effects.
The D800 in DX crop mode is likely going to perform slightly better than a D7000.
But when evaluating the picture as a whole, in FX you have 2.25X the surface area for light collection.
So even though per pixel noise stays the same, you will get better noise performance in FX as a whole.

[I @ M]

After all that has been said about the D800 requiring only the best glass and photography technique, one fella has set out to take a photo with that body doing a lot of wrong things.

According to him, the exif data backs up his words but we all know that it can be edited, he took this image (http://www.pbase.com/andrease/image/142263337/original.jpg) hand holding the D800 with a 70-200 VR11.
The exif says 1/125, F/2.8 iso 200 @ 180mm, standard picture control with the default "3" sharpening applied.

It surprises me how much flexibility there is in the jpeg to bring up some more detail with simple curves adjustments without seemingly degrading the image much.
Even though the image contains relatively little light, colour and detail it still measures just under 20mb.

[MrBling]

So, we should start seeing plenty coming from these cameras (now that Nikon Aus finally have stock in shops).

[Chris G]

I got this from a email statement from Camera Pro for my order on the Nikon D800

"Over the past few weeks, information from Nikon has been difficult to obtain, however last night and a little ahead of schedule, Nikon announced that stores would be stocking the D800 from today. As you have probably already gathered, pre-orders in Australia have far outstripped supply, and will continue to do so for some time.

The initial shipment from Nikon has been incredibly small to all stores, however the good news is that stock has been advised to be shipping every 7-10 days presently, and shipment quantities are expecting to increase in size into April.

I’m writing this in the interests of both transparency, and to share in both your frustration, and excitement for what is arguably the most important release from Nikon in years.

Given that your order with us is in second half of orders, we do anticipate this to still be filled within a relatively reasonable timeframe of the next 4-8 weeks.

CameraPro is a major partner with Nikon Australia in Professional product, and as such we do receive priority allocations in comparison with a lot of stores.

As a business, we are in constant daily contact with Nikon Australia, seeking information regarding dates and quantities"

[Sar NOP]

First impressions from Brad Hill here : http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html

[Chris G]

Has any been checking out the images from the D800 Group on Flickr? ( Can I say that ? cant remember lol )

Seriously do yourself a favour and go look, some of the images being produced are pretty amazing..

Also I was reading on Nikon Remours that the LCD screen on the D800 may have a colour prob, there are images compared to the D4 side by side.

[Tommo1965]

ive just listed my D300s for sale..im thinking Ill go for a used D700...Id love a D800 but im not sure if Ill need it...hmm something to ponder in the coming days

[reaction]

So anyone here actually have a D800 yet?
They're understandably sold out everywhere, even listed at prices like $3899 - $900 over US price! Certain other new cameras have plenty of floor stock tho...

[JM Tran]

So anyone here actually have a D800 yet?
They're understandably sold out everywhere, even listed at prices like $3899 - $900 over US price! Certain other new cameras have plenty of floor stock tho...

quite a few colleagues in Adelaide have D800s and some with D4s now.

[Redgum]

Yep! I'll be shooting on the Island of Reunion in May. Saw a few listed on ebay yesterday for $4199.00 so if you have rocks in your head you can get one immediately.

[Xebadir]

Heard that the first shipment to Nikon Australia was as little as 34 D800s - not alot to go round as of yet. Hoping to get mine prior to May.

[reaction]

Heard that the first shipment to Nikon Australia was as little as 34 D800s - not alot to go round as of yet. Hoping to get mine prior to May.

Definitely not. Even a small jb hifi got 3 in the 1st round.
From what several retailers said it sounded like if you put your $ down you could get one in the month, but who knows.
Don't like the idea of so much over US price tho, but things may go UK way and go up :|

[Lance B]

Heard that the first shipment to Nikon Australia was as little as 34 D800s - not alot to go round as of yet. Hoping to get mine prior to May.

I doubt it was only 34 as from what I can glean, many shops received at least two and that really only would equate to 17 stores. I think the figure would have to be a hundred at least if not more. Don't forget, many are just shop demos or sold to the NPS (Nikon Professional Service) which would get first dibs.

[Tommo1965]

Definitely not. Even a small jb hifi got 3 in the 1st round.
From what several retailers said it sounded like if you put your $ down you could get one in the month, but who knows.
Don't like the idea of so much over US price tho, but things may go UK way and go up :|


what price are Jbs selling them for ?

[reaction]

what price are Jbs selling them for ?

$3899 and they still have backorders

[RRRoger]

[QUOTE=reaction;1002128]$3899 and they still have backorders QUOTE

I have mine and it is a real bargain at that price.:)
If you can, lock in the price.
Nikon is already raising it some places in Europe and on the D800e in the US:eek:

[MrBling]

Heard that the first shipment to Nikon Australia was as little as 34 D800s - not alot to go round as of yet. Hoping to get mine prior to May.

Maybe there was some kind of demo fleet that came in early, but the first round of "for sale" cameras was without a doubt more than that.

[I @ M]

Maybe there was some kind of demo fleet that came in early, but the first round of "for sale" cameras was without a doubt more than that.

What are you basing your theory on Mr. B?

[I @ M]

I have mine and it is a real bargain at that price.:)

Come on Roger, post some images from the camera into this thread to gain the illustrious title of first on AP to do so. :)

[Chris G]

Come on Roger, post some images from the camera into this thread to gain the illustrious title of first on AP to do so. :)

So Roger is currently the only person on AP to have recieved the Nikon D800 and his not posting pics..... OMG MAN, hurry up! :D

[Xebadir]

I wonder if it was worth the additional $500 and supporting of overpriced Australian retailers for the gratification of getting one early?

Note, a corrigendium to my previous post - the first shipment may have been 34, but I believe that was the first shipment after the NPS orders were sent out. Still there aren't many around in Aus.

[Xebadir]

A question for the wiser minds out there - do you plan to change your memory card configuration for this camera - and if so/not what cards are you planning to use?

[reaction]

www.discountcameras.com.au/discountcameras/view_product/37709 $3,283.58 local stock - time to price match?


A question for the wiser minds out there - do you plan to change your memory card configuration for this camera - and if so/not what cards are you planning to use?

SD. I'm not pro enuf to need CF speeds plus I really hate using a card reader.
I'd be interested to see what speeds D800 can write, SD UHC1 can do "90mb/s" now

[MajorPanic]

I've ordered 1 X 64GB SanDisk - 64GB SDXC Memory Card Extreme Pro Class 10 UHS-I & 3 X 64GB Lexar CF memory card Pro 1000X UDMA 7

I have a FireWire 800 card reader for my CF cards & I was able to find a CF adapter - just plug the SDXC card into the adapter & the adapter into the FireWire reader :D

[Sar NOP]

I've ordered 1 X 64GB SanDisk - 64GB SDXC Memory Card Extreme Pro Class 10 UHS-I & 3 X 64GB Lexar CF memory card Pro 1000X UDMA 7

I have a FireWire 800 card reader for my CF cards & I was able to find a CF adapter - just plug the SDXC card into the adapter & the adapter into the FireWire reader :D

I'm wondering if your cards cost more than your D800...:D

[Chris G]

CF 128Gb version will set you back a desent lens or a DSLR starter kit LOL (Crazy I think)

Though I have orded this card reader "SanDisk ImageMate All-In-One USB 3.0 Card Reader" 500MB/s transfer which hopefully will be faster enough.. :th3:

[Xebadir]

Somebody has pockets lined with money :P.
I'm planning to run a pair of 32GB cards...still tossing up on this though - mainly so that I can have video/timelapse going to one when I want it and stills to the other - and backup in the case of wedding photography. Most Probably - 32GB Sandisk CF 60 mb/s (x400 equiv), 32 GB Lexar x400 Class 10 SDHC.

Another part of me is just saying - why not order another 16GB x400 CF instead of a giant CF card- you already have 2 (one of which lives in the D700) - its a pretty rare day that I shoot more than 400 shots chasing anyway.

Managed to pick up a couple of bargain priced genuine batteries today so pretty chuffed about that. Still no camera, but It shouldn't be too much longer ;)

[Chris G]

Somebody has pockets lined with money :P.
I'm planning to run a pair of 32GB cards...still tossing up on this though - mainly so that I can have video/timelapse going to one when I want it and stills to the other - and backup in the case of wedding photography. Most Probably - 32GB Sandisk CF 60 mb/s (x400 equiv), 32 GB Lexar x400 Class 10 SDHC.

Another part of me is just saying - why not order another 16GB x400 CF instead of a giant CF card- you already have 2 (one of which lives in the D700) - its a pretty rare day that I shoot more than 400 shots chasing anyway.

Managed to pick up a couple of bargain priced genuine batteries today so pretty chuffed about that. Still no camera, but It shouldn't be too much longer ;)

The only down side I can see with having slower cards at 60mb/s is that it may bottle neck the D800 due to it being able to push out at 75mb/s, especially RAW files..

Oh I didn't mean I was getting / have the 128Gb versions either, I dont even have that kind of room on my computer at the moment.. lol

Though I'm considering the 64Gb 90mb/s CF & SD Cards :th3:

[reaction]

D800 due to it being able to push out at 75mb/s, especially RAW files..


Do you have a source for this number?

I have seen nothing on that front. What's the buffer size for the D800? It does 4fps till the buffer is full but I haven't seen any specs for the speed after that. Historically it's more than 1fps after buffer is full, so it may be an amazing number..

[arthurking83]

75Mb/s sounds about right as a min bandwidth speed, give or take a few Mb/s.
I would expect more tho.

It has too be able to push out this sort of data rate as the files are so large.
If you shoot in jpg mode and the average jpg amounts to 25Mb, then at 4-6fps if the camera's bandwidth can't reach or exceed 75Mb/s you get a bottleneck.
It's almost certain that the camera will shoot 100 or more jpg images at the fastest frame rate before the buffer completely fills and the camera has to clear it before accepting more exposures.
It all depends on how quickly the buffer clears after a series of continuous high frame rates to the point where the frame rate slows down. This is the point where the buffer fills and needs to clear quickly to allow shooting at high fps again, as soon as possible!

SO it's likely to be a min of 75Mb's and could be close to the 90Mb/s of Sandisk's popular fast cards.

I'd be a bit weary of investing too much money over the next few years in CF cards tho!
The writing is on the wall for CF, and while the D4 does have a single CF card slot, I'm sure as time goes on and new models become available, the CF format will be phased out and replaced with the faster XQD format.

Possible card formats for the D800 replacement could be 1 CF and 1 XQD, but as the D800 has an SD card slot with an SD card slot, it's possible that the card slot combo's could be 1XQD and 1 SD for future models.

[Xebadir]

From the Manual (was reading in regards to card capacity) for the D800 directly - I suspect a printing mistake here.
Lossless Compressed 14 Bit NEF Raw - 41.3MB file size - 103 Images on an 8 gig card. - Buffer 17 shots on a Toshiba 8GB SDHC R95, W80MB/s card.
Full uncompressed 14 Bit NEF Raw - 74.4MB file size - 103 Images - Buffer 16
Not sure how the math works there ( with a 41.3MB file size you should be able to fit more I would think? - 193 images +- from my calculation).

Certainly I would say the minimum standard needed for shooting lossless compressed will be 60MB/s, and 75mb/s for full raw 14bits. And this is before we get to HDSLR video needs, which will also mean you need pretty decent card ratings.

I'm sort of leaning towards the 32GB x600 pro speed CF/SD Class 10 as much as it will hurt the bank. You don't want to limit the camera over a few dollars after spending as much as they cost ;).

[Chris G]

Lets also not forget about the 108Mb Tiff files aswell + if you so choose to as some photographers do like running / recording in both Jpeg & Raw just to add to the mess :th3:

What also should be pointed out is that all these numbers are based on if your running full frame / FX (36×24)

[I @ M]

A question for the wiser minds out there - do you plan to change your memory card configuration for this camera - and if so/not what cards are you planning to use?

No, for at least one body anyway. The one that will be used for video will probably need one or two better cards but for stills a handful of old slow 4 and 8 gb cards will do fine thanks.


I've ordered 1 X 64GB SanDisk - 64GB SDXC Memory Card Extreme Pro Class 10 UHS-I & 3 X 64GB Lexar CF memory card Pro 1000X UDMA 7

I have a FireWire 800 card reader for my CF cards & I was able to find a CF adapter - just plug the SDXC card into the adapter & the adapter into the FireWire reader :D


The only down side I can see with having slower cards at 60mb/s is that it may bottle neck the D800 due to it being able to push out at 75mb/s, especially RAW files..

Oh I didn't mean I was getting / have the 128Gb versions either, I dont even have that kind of room on my computer at the moment.. lol

Though I'm considering the 64Gb 90mb/s CF & SD Cards :th3:

Guys, are you really sure that the D800 is the camera you need?

I cannot see anywhere in the specifications anything that suggests that the camera is intended for fast paced photography cramming thousands of images per session onto the cards.
The design looks entirely set up for slow and deliberate usage where photographers go out to capture a handful of quality images at a time.
If you are seeking a speed demon, all in one, jack of all trades camera body then I think you will disappointed with the D800, perhaps a D700 would suit your needs better?

[Chris G]

Well I can't talk for everyone here but what I'm actually referring to is the Nikon D800's image size of that being 75Mb uncompressed
14-bit raw file being writing to either a 60Mb/s or 90Mb/s read & write CF /SD cards.

I'm going point out the math behind it all though I'd say most of us would know.

If we start timing that by 4 we end up with 300Mb of raw data per sec when the D800 is firing its shutter in burst FX mode @ 4FPS.

CF x4 60Mb/s wright = 240Mb
CF x4 90Mb/s wright = 360Mb

And again we are even jumping into Tiff files (108Mb) or talking about recording movies @1080p :th3:

But of course if your not planing on taking photos in 14bit Raw files or recording 1080p movies then 30/60Mb/s cards will do you just fine.

D800 can do 100 images before the buffer says I've had enough.. lol :th3:

PS: I'm not to worried about the D800's burst as its very rare for me to ever use a cam for high speed shooting. Though I can add that I do value detail and in which
75mb 14bit raw files suites me fine. :D

EDIT: I should also add that this is all assuming that the D800's card slots can wright to the cards those speeds.

[Xebadir]

Andrew - TBH I am not worried about burst rate at all. I wouldn't care if it was 2FPS - on a storm day I probably shoot 100-150 frames on a normal sort of chase - over the course of several hours (and if I did I am lucky to have the D700 as a second camera ;)). For me the difference in dynamic range, ISO performance, metering, handling and AF all are very attractive aspects to this camera.
I guess there are three aspects to why I am looking at card options here:
- I don't want to get stuck on the upload bottleneck, The most important aspect here is read speed - can I get the data off the cards in a timely fashion - I would say 60mb/s is going to be a minimum for most users.
- The file sizes even on the lossless compressed are quite substantial - so much so that in the context of say a wedding I am concerned I will not have sufficient card space to fit the event on there - by the time you deal with blinkers and wandering eyes/funny expressions you are probably going to be short. Hence I am considering that I need a larger card for the purpose (but wouldn't go any bigger than 32GB due to redunancy and cost - the best solution might be 2 more 16GB at a higher speed)
- I have never shot 1080p video with a DSLR and have no idea of what the card requirements would be to ensure no problems. Given I have no class 10 SDHC cards (I think my ones for my sony are class 6) or pro high speed CF cards I am wondering how I am going to fare with the D800 - will my 16GB CF 60mb/s really cut it for usage? While my relatively small usage of this aspect of the camera will be a combination of time lapse photography and movies for this aspect of the camera I am just not sure - hence my question.

[I @ M]

Chris, quite frankly I am confused. Given that you don't expect to use the 4fps continuous high mode to capture images, in what area do you think that you will require very fast card speeds?
Granted, video may be an issue and being a total newbie to that area I will have to see what is actually needed before I make any decisions about cards.
Obviously with bigger file sizes, a larger card/s will be required to hold the same number of images compared to say the D700 but I still can't see why the fast cards are needed. Certainly with 14 bit NEF files from the D700 I have never had any problems getting the images into the camera on the relatively rare times when I have used continuous high. I have never had the camera stop taking images, I have never felt that it was taking forever to write to the card and certainly when importing them into the computer I have never ever worried about whether I get 1/2 a cuppa made or a whole brew in the time it takes to transfer a card full of shots at around 24mb each. :confused013

John, the reasons that you have given pretty much mirror mine, plenty of very worthwhile features that have been upgraded and the new mp count is just another part of it, not the whole reason to buy the camera. You know your need for speed as far as photographing storms go and I kinda thought you would be one not rushing to machine gun the camera. With weddings, I don't even know that it will be an ideal camera for that job in many of the non posed or non set up shots where the lack of attention to technique may negate any advantages that the camera may offer. That remains to be seen and will be proven in the not too far distant future when people start using them in sufficient numbers.
Bigger file sizes just mean more storage to me and with cards and storage media being very cheap in the scheme of things these days I don't see it as a major obstacle.

[Redgum]

The "write" speed of the card will govern the number of images you capture in continuous shoot mode without stopping. The "read" speed is of little consequence and the "transfer" rate will depend on the PC's capability.
With video (editing) the image size will be restricted to 8 bit and as a consequence is much smaller than single frame shooting. Remember that video frames are 1920 x 1080p which is around 2Mp per frame versus 36Mp. Again, the "write" speed of the card is important because you are recording 25 frames per second.

[Xebadir]

Yeah, you are correct Andrew - machine gunning for me is pretty rare...too many video people in the storm world anyway to get that sort of garbage. I tend to take my time and play with the shot. I guess I am a little interested to see its application for weddings - for me its realistically replacing my D300 anyway - not the D700 which has been my staple to date (and is a great camera, the D800 being full frame as well makes my lens system much easier). I'm hoping it will perform as a body for some purpose in that situation, at the very least it can peform to the capabilities of the D700 anyway.

Thanks for the Info Redgum. So effectively this means that a standard write speed of at least 50mb/s would be needed for 25FPS 1920x1080p? How do SD cards work in this regard (Doesn't class infer write speed for SDHC?).

[Chris G]

The "write" speed of the card will govern the number of images you capture in continuous shoot mode without stopping. The "read" speed is of little consequence and the "transfer" rate will depend on the PC's capability.
With video (editing) the image size will be restricted to 8 bit and as a consequence is much smaller than single frame shooting. Remember that video frames are 1920 x 1080p which is around 2Mp per frame versus 36Mp. Again, the "write" speed of the card is important because you are recording 25 frames per second.

This is correct but with one fault in terms of the Vid recording. From what I've been researching / reading around the place lots of people have been saying that when recording at 1920x1080p you actually need the fastest card as possible to record for a smooth FPS without getting frame skipping + sound distortion as the file/s from the cam are being transferred continuously..

Ian just comes down to my experiences with anything computer related when it comes to CPU, RAM & the speed of HDDs that all play a factor to how well my computer well handle whatever I choose to throw at it.
so for me in regards to a D700 vs D800 this is how I see it..

Dual Core XP Pro 32bit with 3.5Gb of ram DDR @ 400mhz with a 7,200rpm HDD ( D700 12mp with a file size of around 14-24mb with a 15-30mb/s CF Card )
Vs.
Quad Core Win 7 64Bit with 64Gb DDR3 @ 1800Mhz with a 10,000rpm HDD ( D800 36.3mp with a file size of around 32mb-74.5mb with a 90mb/s CF Card )

If I was to change say the RAM & the HDD in the Win 7 system with that of the XP system, my computer would suffer in performance as the files of a 64bit system are to large to handle on slower/ outdated hardware.

14/24mb 12mp file with a CF/SD card at 15mb/s on a D700, the buffer takes about 27 - 48secs give or take to clear after 16 FF 14bit images have been taken before you can start to burst once again. The diff in mem size and burst rate obviously play a factor here compared that of the D800,

But if I was to try and use the same card on the D800 at FF on a 15Mb/s CF/SD card you would be waiting around 4secs for one image to be put across in single shooting mode. Now a D800 will pump out 15-16 FF 14bit images in burst before the buffer needs to be cleared as with the D700. Though you would be basicly waiting 1min and 4secs before you could start burst shooting again with a CF/SD Card at 15Mb/s, even with a 30Mb/s CF card at full burst your still looking at an average of 32secs before you can start to shoot again. I do understand this will only really effect people who wish to shoot in burst mode or record HD movies, I also found out that having a higher speed card will reduce your buffer clearing times after each burst by massive amounts. Another factor is even running with a external SDD on USB 3.0 off the D800 as storage device it was reported that it was actually very very slow compared to that of a CF/SD Card.

Which now brings me to that I base my photography on technique as many of us do, only I choose to avoid shooting in burst as I believe it takes away the fundamental / foundations of what being photographer means to myself. Anyone can shoot in burst mode with the hopes of getting that "perfect image" but with practice and learning to see a moment before it happens you can capture that emotion or time frame with just one click. :th3:

So with that in mind I also care for the image quality over quantity in terms of burst mode. But I still like it to be at a productive rate with maximum effect ie: 74.5Mbs file - 15Mb/s Vs. 90Mb/s

Also I would like the mem cards to be able to transfer 74Mb files over to my computer at a reasonable rate if I was ever to fill a 32Gb or 64Gb card. My computer has 4 USB 3.0 slots which is almost 90x faster than using USB 2.0


"Shooting stills pictures in the FX format, recording NEF Raw files, at 14-bit and uncompressed, the camera generates a 74.4MB file, and the camera’s buffer memory has the capacity for 16 frames. Recording NEF Raw files, at 12-bit and lossless compressed the file size is reduced to approximately 32.4MB and the buffer capacity is increased to 21 frames. In the smaller DX format, when recording NEF Raw files, at 14-bit and uncompressed, the camera generates a 32.5MB file, and the camera’s buffer memory has the capacity for 25 frames. Recording NEF Raw files, at 12-bit and lossless compressed the file size is reduced to approximately 14.9MB and the buffer capacity is increased to 38 frames. While a JPEG file at the greatest resolution in the FX format produces a file of approximately 16.3MB, and 8.0MB in the DX format, with a buffer capacity of 56 and 100 frames, respectively."

Source: http://www.pixiq.com/article/the-nikon-d800-official-announcement











-

[I @ M]

Blimey Chris!!!!!!
All the figures here are doing my head in. :o
I am hopeless at mathematics ( still trying to get my head around the fact that numerically F/11 is half of F/22 but at the same time it does funny things to shutter speed by tripling doubling it and that is before these pesky things called iso come into play :D ) so all the technical stuff about computers also goes straight over the top as well.
All I know is that the little black box that sits on the bench and clicks and rattles away when a memory card is inserted has a handful of hardy drives that spin at less than F1 racing car engine speeds, 8 giggly bites of ram ( I still reckon that is an uncastrated boy sheep ), windoze 7 64 bit program thingy that has to be used in conjunction with that horribly slow editing program called Nikon Capture NX. This all seems to happen very very speedily with a Lexar card reader plugged into a usb 2 port and even if the transfer time for D800 files is quadrupled from those of the D700 I still won't be back at the pc from making a cuppa before 100 images are in their respective folders.
Certainly after playing around with some 14 bit samples of D800 files downloaded from the net I am not going to have to rush out and buy any more computer gear as editing times on them are in no way 3 times as slow as a D700 file. If and when the need arises for an incremental upgrade to bring the pc into 20th century specifications I will yell out to a curly haired moderator here and bribe him to use his ability to insert tiny screws in electrical bits without losing them to make the pc innards work better.

As for continuous high frame rates and images getting stuck in the bottleneck ( use a glass, goes down faster :beer_mug:) I once again raise the question of whether the D800 is the camera that should be chosen by people who want to machine gun images. It has the ability to take photographs at that speed but I reckon that ability is there for people to use it wisely on something like a bracketed ( either metered camera exposure or flash settings ) sequence of a relatively small number of frames.
I seriously don't think that 14 bit NEF files, 4 fps and filling the buffer is what this body is about and those who attempt to do such things will be the next generation of 'net complainers about the cameras "faults", mind you, that could be good for the secondhand market when those users all swap to Canon 'cause the 5d mk111 shoots faster. :rolleyes:

[arthurking83]

17 NEF images in a slow shooting environment is a heck of a lot of images!!

I personally have never done it, or come close to achieving it, in fact so much so that I deliberately set my camera to an artificial limit of 12 images max for any burst.

I did this because I once caught my son(long time back when he was much younger) playing with the camera's 6fps speed, as he liked the sound of the rat-a-tat-tat ... and just held the trigger down until the camera slowed. Then he'd laugh! So I just put a stop to that 'adventure'.

Then after a few years of that camera setup, we got into karting, and having never been interested in rapid fire shooting before this new found recreation I'd always used slow(but voluminous) cards for myself.(2x8G .. plus a host of other accumulated cards over the years).
Once I found myself regularly shooting rapidly moving karts, I then found a reason to seek a faster card.
I ended up acquiring a no name brand 600x(90Mb/s) 8G card for 1/3rd of the price of an equivalent Lexar or Sandisk and now use that, but for the vast majority of my shooting needs the slower cards are more than sufficient!

I am tending to agree tho, it is nice to have a faster card .. for me this is almost certain to be important for video capture, but for stills capture much less so.
Up until the need for a speedy card for the karting situation, I've never found that slow card writes, and hence slow buffer clearing was ever an issue.

And .. I've found that the real sped difference between USB3 and USB2 is about 2 to 3 times as a maximum.
I've had many hundred gigabytes up to just over a terabyte of transfers between my USB3, eSATA and USB2 drives and the maximum speed difference I've seen has been close to 3x between USB3 and USB2.
(eSATA and USB3 appear to be about on par with each other).
Having said that while a 3x speed transfer is not really a big difference in total time taken for a load of fresh images off a camera's card .. possibly a minute or two at max!.
But, for a whole 1Tb transfer from one backup drive to another .. the difference between a 3 hour job and a 9 hour job is .... best described as whopping!

As for video(while I already have a 90Mb/s card, if the video is streaming through at 50Mb/s then a 60Mb/s card is sufficient and there will(or should!) be no dropped frames or audio skipping.
That's what I'm looking towards. A larger sized 60Mb/s card for video capture ... and take it from there.

[Chris G]

And here I was starting thinking I wasn't making any sense to all of this being sick with a kidney infection 'sigh'

I'am sorry for all the over the top tech talk lol, but it is the only way I knew how to explain it in simple terms, well simple terms to myself haha

But just to add to fuss of the buffer here's the math lol

burst rate 4fps x 74.5mb per file x 16files = 1.2Gbs
of raw data in 4 to 5secs.

Quite amazing to be honest and scary as to think how fast someone would fill a 32Gb card lol

But I guess until of us receive our D800 it is going to be quite hard to press about how it will handle the file sides of things. I know mine is due around 15th of April so not long now hopefully

[arthurking83]

I think you have the math wrong Chris.

From sensor to buffer the data rate will be (4 x 75Mb) / sec = 300Mb/s.
Someone else asked why the 6fps with the battery grip and higher specced batteries.
The bandwidth into the buffer appears to be limited to 300Mb/s.
What the ultimate bandwidth from buffer to card is, is going to be anyone's guess.
It seems that the D4 is obviously higher powered in some way, which you'd expect seeing as it has an XQD card slot and they're currently rated at 125Mb/s

You can now get '150Mb/s' CF cards, and it'd be interesting to see if the D800 takes any advantage from a faster than 90Mb/s card to clear the buffer even more quickly.

the x 16 figure is simply the size of the buffer, so at 75Mb per file, it's obvious that the memory module within the D800 is about 1Gb or so ... or more likely 1024Mb.

On a 90Mb/s card, theoretically it should take 11 sec to clear the buffer completely, but this may be shorter than 11sec as the buffer will be clearing as you shoot anyhow.
Say it takes 4sec to fill the buffer and then the camera slows down to 1fps once the buffer is full, you'll find that it may only take 7sec to clear the buffer as the original images shot 4sec ago have already been written to the card. So 11s - 4s = 7s.
This 11sec time may apply if you continue to saturate the buffer at the 1fps rate, after the buffer has filled.
Without the camera this is only speculation anyhow, so once you've got your camera you give us a heads up on it all.

My main speed priority is video. If I can get away with a 60Mb/s card to store any video, then I'll spend more money on capacity rather than speed.

[Chris G]

Oh yeh I didn't think about the buffer being limited to 300mb, I guess if it wasn't then Nikon would have had some answering to do as to why they never updated to D800 with XQD cards to be able to handle the 1.2gbs as I had put across lol.

With the video I have yet to see anyone post any detail regarding the mem cards that may or may not be needed. But there was a interesting thread on flicker about it. Group called D800vs D700 users , something like that anyway. It was mentioned in there about mem for video performance with needing to be that of around 90mb/s Because the d800 is 36mp??? How that effects 1080p recording kinda baffled me. I would usually go Check but laying in bed trying to type on a iPhone is time consuming I must say lol I will check after though..

[Chris G]

Oh I forgot to mention that higher speed cards only effect in decreasing the buffer time and not dose not help the buffer frame rate in anyway according to some dude that tested various card speeds on the D800. Which was kinda surprising as it does help with other DSLR's

That on the nikonions thread (I believe that's them) lol

[arthurking83]

Oh I forgot to mention that higher speed cards only effect in decreasing the buffer time and not dose not help the buffer frame rate in anyway according to some dude that tested various card speeds on the D800. .....

A faster write speed from the card will always clear the buffer quicker, that goes without saying, but only up to a point.

If Nikon used a 100Mb/s pipe from buffer to card, then using a faster(than 100Mb/s) card will produce no significant increase in clearing buffer speeds.

On your camera, there is (or should be) a green 'card busy' light on the rear of the camera. Once this light is out that means that the card has been written too from the buffer and the buffer is cleared.
On the D300 this now only takes about 10 sec with my fast(90Mb/s card) even when completely full.
You can keep shooting at a reduced frame rate(sounds like 1fps) and keep filling the card as it's being cleared, but this only prolongs the card busy routine.

Haven't got any faster cards to see if this helps clear the buffer any quicker .. and don't really need any either.

The other aspect about the video recording feature of the D800(and D4) is that you can save the video stream to an external device via the HDMI connection.
If card speed and or space is an issue for video capture, there is another alternative in the HDMI interface.
I'd be curious to know if this can work directly to a portable computer(Tablet in my case) .. which it should.

[Redgum]

Arthur,
I'd be curious to know if this can work directly to a portable computer(Tablet in my case) .. which it should
Most TAB and mobile devices (at least the ones I've reviewed) have a one way HDMI connection (output only) which I understand is governed by the CPU on the mobile device and therefore cannot re-record video. Only video transferred by data device or recorded internally can be output through HDMI. I believe this was by design to protect copyright (influence of powers to be).
There are a number of devices to be used with a DSLR to record serious video and store footage, most of which use the HDMI connection and bypass on-board storage altogether.
I must add that having made a number of full length documentaries on a DSLR it was very cumbersome and took up to three times as long to shoot as normal. Whilst the normal pictorial quality was very good the DSLR is quite hopeless in adhoc situations.

[arthurking83]

Damn!!!

I thought it'd be too good to be true.

I know of the Atomos video capture device thingy doodle .. but the price! :eek:

I'm sure manufacturers such as Phottix and Yongnuo will eventually come to the party with cheaper devices tho.

[Chris G]

Dear Chris

I'm writing to you in regards to your order with us for the Nikon D800

What's happening?

We have received information from Nikon Australia late last night that a small quantity of bodies will be delivered in the next 10-12 days or so. Exact numbers are unknown until the units physically arrive in our store. From our current experience with the D800, and Nikon Australia's projection guidance, shipments are due to continue being made throughout April, with an additional 2-3 orders, approximately 7-10 days apart.

When will I receive my D800?

Exact dates are unknown. For our first third of orders, we hope to fulfil in the next four weeks, with May-June being a projected time frame for orders that were placed after this. We will be distributing them in the order that pre-orders were placed. I myself, or a Camera Pro team member will contact you as soon as your allocated body is in store, and arrange final payment details, and shipping or in store collection arrangements.

Based on information received from Nikon so far, and given your placement in queue, we are currently expecting your order to be filled out of incoming stock expected during May. As our next shipment quantity is received in the next 10-12 days, and correspondingly we have a further allocation confirmation from Nikon during this timeframe for following shipments, we will be straight back in touch with further updates on this.

So based on this I still have another month of waiting.... :(

[Lance B]

Thank you for the info. I am 4th or 5th in line at my genuine Nikon dealer, so by what you say, I may be lucky enough to get mine in the next 14 days. :)

[Redgum]

Maybe I should put mine on eBay for $4199.00 with immediate delivery? :)
Or perhaps if I wait a week or two I'll get $4399.00?
Supply and demand is such a wonderful beast. :D
Hey Chris, I think we were talking about opportunity elsewhere, no?

[Lance B]

Maybe I should put mine on eBay for $4199.00 with immediate delivery? :)
Or perhaps if I wait a week or two I'll get $4399.00?
Supply and demand is such a wonderful beast. :D
Hey Chris, I think we were talking about opportunity elsewhere, no?

Go ahead. If you get a bite, then great. :)

I'll wait.

[Redgum]

Couldn't be that mean! How could I live with myself. :angry0:
Besides, I've already had two offers from my camera club up here. They've got too much money and too little influence and besides, I enjoy watching the suffering.

[I @ M]

So Redgum,
here is a challenge, rush outside * and take a quick snap with your new toy and post it on AP to claim the honours of the first image from a D800 posted.

Exif included of course.

* Only applies if you don't have some urgent matter like walking the dog to attend to.

[Redgum]

Ha! Ha! Haven't used it yet - not even unsealed. And that's the way it will stay until I go to Peru again next month.

[rodw]

Dear Chris

Based on information received from Nikon so far, and given your placement in queue, we are currently expecting your order to be filled out of incoming stock expected during May. As our next shipment quantity is received in the next 10-12 days, and correspondingly we have a further allocation confirmation from Nikon during this timeframe for following shipments, we will be straight back in touch with further updates on this.

So based on this I still have another month of waiting.... :(

Chris, Interesting. I got a similar email from Camerapro so I am wondering when you made your order?

I ordered on 10 Feb and they said:


Based on information received from Nikon so far, and given your placement in queue, we are currently expecting your order to be filled out of incoming stock expected at the end of April, or during the first half of May.

I think they have been very good keeping us informed and at the Canon 5DMK3 preview, they told me that they had received over 200 preorders. I reckon they must be as frustrated as we are....

I guess I could be bribed to swap positions in the queue...
:lol::D:D:D:lol:

[Debra Faulkner]

Ha! Ha! Haven't used it yet - not even unsealed. And that's the way it will stay until I go to Peru again next month.

Now that is just too funny :lol:Love your sense of humour!

[Lance B]

Ha! Ha! Haven't used it yet - not even unsealed. And that's the way it will stay until I go to Peru again next month.

That makes sense.

[Xebadir]

Anyone else feel like some is telling porkies about actually having a D800 - no box no proof? :P. :lol:

[Chris G]

Chris, Interesting. I got a similar email from Camerapro so I am wondering when you made your order?

I ordered on 10 Feb and they said:



I think they have been very good keeping us informed and at the Canon 5DMK3 preview, they told me that they had received over 200 preorders. I reckon they must be as frustrated as we are....

I guess I could be bribed to swap positions in the queue...
:lol::D:D:D:lol:

Bahhahaha indeed its from camera pro but I didn't order until march 26th.. So yeh sucks for me and anyone else who has ordered after that date :lol:

PS: I have some baked cookies will that do as a bribe? :D:D

EDIT: Red didnt you say you had the D800 a couple of weeks back in this thread.. And YES you can atleast post a pic of the BOX you B*^#$)(& and all the rest that goes with that LOL

[Tommo1965]

hes the same bloke that reckons you can get a D700 for $1790 brand new...smells a tad fishy ..or is he a industry insider with special contacts ...who buys a new camera and leaves it in the box still sealed up after two weeks !!!

[Lazyshooter]

PS: I have some baked cookies will that do as a bribe? :D:D


I have to ask, what type of cookies.....? :D:D:cool:

[Xebadir]

EDIT: Red didnt you say you had the D800 a couple of weeks back in this thread.. And YES you can atleast post a pic of the BOX you B*^#$)(& and all the rest that goes with that LOL

Heh, he clearly doesn't know how to tease well enough. Now a real b#^@^$! would take a picture of the sealed box with the date and time next to it and put it up, updating it each day just to piss more and more people off, and then one day before a person who was getting the most frustrated got their opening his :P. :angry0: Clearly he hasn't spent sadistic hours on this sort of thing like me though :lol:

[Chris G]

I have to ask, what type of cookies.....? :D:D:cool:

Haha um, ones I can't post a pic of... :lol:

[ricktas]

[11] Posting any comment/post or answer that is: abusive, hateful, racist, bigoted, sexist, harassing, threatening, inflammatory, defamatory, knowingly false, vulgar, obscene, pornographic, promote/show illegal drug use or are overtly sexual are not allowed. Remember that children visit the Ausphotography website and some are members.

[Chris G]

Sorry about that Captain Ricktas.. *salutes* :th3:

[rodw]

Rick, I forgive them all :p I have a very thick skin (and a long memory..:action::angry0::angry0:)

Sorry, the only sealed box I got today was my free LR4 upgrade. I wish I had some of the inside running.

Chris, I dont think I have much good news for you and your delivery. CameraPro had over 200 preorders as at March 22, when I previewed the Canon 5DMk3 so you will need more than cookies to swap places!

If that is the number of orders from just one dealer in Austalia, I can't see how Nikon's production of 30,000 a month will go very far around the globe. I suspect Chris (and I) may be waiting longer than we expect. If you recall Nikon made their first cameras available earlier than expected. I suspect that Canon's release may have prompted them to trickle out a few just before they stopped for stocktake which was an opportunity for them to stockpile a few more. I really think that Nikon will increase prices in more markets than the UK with this crazy demand for the product once a few more are out in the wild.

Now I am home, I had a look at the cards I have. A Lexar 32 gb 400x Compact flash ( I think that is 60 mb/s) and a Lexar 32 gb 600x (90 mb/s) SD card. I recently purchased these from forum sponsor Cheap as Chips for $338 for the 2. I've also got an older Lexar 8gb (300x) card I bought from them a few years ago. All of these are listed in the D800 manual as being compatible. I was optimistic as I wanted the on hand in case I had the D800 by Easter. It was hard to find the right cards that were in stock when I ordered the 32 gb ones.

[rirakuma]

Just finished work and luckily someone was home to accept the D800 delivery. Some initial shots nothing fancy, I resized them smaller because I have slow net. Will be happy to answer questions if anyone wants me to test/check something.


http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9129/dsc0190er.jpg

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3676/dsc0179ev.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8798/dsc0167e.jpg

[Chris G]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol:

Here a question: Please tell me these photos are SOOC. :D :eek: :th3:

oh oh and what lens?

I just wet myself.. :cool:

[I @ M]

Thanks rirakuma, you have just gone down in history as the first person to post an image taken with a D800 on AP. :th3:

There have been others claim to have the camera in their hot little hands but we all know what the net is like and without a picture it simply didn't happen. :D


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol:

Here a question: Please tell me these photos are SOOC. :D :eek: :th3:

oh oh and what lens?

I just wet myself.. :cool:

Chris you really need to get an exif viewer (http://kuso-exif-viewer.softpedia.com/) mate. :)

Going by that handy little tool, the image has been through Lightroom 4.0 and the lens used is a Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 2/50 ZF.2 at F/2.0 on the box image and a 105mm F/2.8 at F/5.6 on the other 2.

[Chris G]

Thanks rirakuma, you have just gone down in history as the first person to post an image taken with a D800 on AP. :th3:

There have been others claim to have the camera in their hot little hands but we all know what the net is like and without a picture it simply didn't happen. :D



Chris you really need to get an exif viewer (http://kuso-exif-viewer.softpedia.com/) mate. :)

Going by that handy little tool, the image has been through Lightroom 4.0 and the lens used is a Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 2/50 ZF.2 at F/2.0 on the box image and a 105mm F/2.8 at F/5.6 on the other 2.

Haha Cheers Andrew... :th3:

[rirakuma]

Thats right Andrew! For some reason ViewNX was so slow I couldn't even see the images that were in the D800, I had to extract them by clicking the d800 icon and navigating through the folder. I opened the .nef in lightroom and converted them to JPEG, these are SOOC.

[arthurking83]

which version of ViewNX?

if you have a 64bit PC, is your version of ViewNX v2.3 or greater and 64bit?
It does work than the older versions, and any version lower than v2.3 won't recognise D800 files anyhow.
Your CD(in the D800 box) should have v2.3 at the least ... possibly v2.3.1(latest version).

[Chris G]

In other news:
The latest addition to this site's database of camera memory card test data, now called the CF/SD/XQD Performance Database, is the Nikon D800. We put over 170 CompactFlash and SD/SDHC/SDXC cards from 20 makers through Nikon's newest digital SLR.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-12451

[arthurking83]

Yeah, did you see the D4 performance data? ;)

It seems XQD is the way to go in future(see other thread!)

:th3:

[Chris G]

Yeh I did check that out, files where screaming across :D

I'm surprised Nikon didn't add the XQD to the D800 but I guess if they did it would of be counter productive for sales.. lol

[arthurking83]

On another note, check out the speed of the Lexar card at the top of the D800 list compared to the same card on a Canon 5DIII!!
Much faster than on the D800 ... so it seems that Nikon don't seem to have the camera to card interface as optimised as Canon seem to have got.

It'll be interesting to see how well the Canon D1X performs compared to the D4, as the Canon is technically faster(in ultimate FPS rates) yet it only has CF card slots.


Anyhow.. back onto the D800 topics .... The D800 was probably signed off on just before the quake/tsunami issue in Japan, and compounded with the Thai flood issue, the delay was probably close to a year or maybe more.... it was a very late update for the D700 even by Nikon's standard timing.
It seems that the D800 was never going to be fitted with a XQD slot, and as I remember, Nikon pushed hard in late 2011 to have the XQD format ratified by the Compact Flash Association.
They almost certainly did this as they planned from day one to have the D3 successor fitted with XQD, and some of the other members were tardy in approving the format.

So the D4 was barely lucky to have an XQD card slot at all, as in late 2011 the XQD format was finally ratified, and abotu 3 months later Nikon announced the D4!
It's rare for a totally new card format to be 'conceived' and a camera to have one in such quick time.

The XQD format was supposed to be the CFast card format, which is the successor to the CF format, but the CFast format obviously morphed and evolved as time went by, and we ended up with XQD instead.

[rirakuma]

which version of ViewNX?

if you have a 64bit PC, is your version of ViewNX v2.3 or greater and 64bit?
It does work than the older versions, and any version lower than v2.3 won't recognise D800 files anyhow.
Your CD(in the D800 box) should have v2.3 at the least ... possibly v2.3.1(latest version).

Just checked and I only have 2.2.1 haha. Im using a 64bit w7 so I'll update it when I get home. I much prefer using viewnx to transfer than copy and paste from the card :o. Btw Im using some cheap sandisk SD card and the write time sucks, I'll get a proper CF card soon.

[arthurking83]

..... Im using a 64bit w7 so I'll update it when I get home. I much prefer using viewnx to transfer than copy and paste from the card :o. Btw Im using some cheap sandisk SD card and the write time sucks, I'll get a proper CF card soon.


Sounds like a plan.

And as for the card .. it was probably ok for writing smaller files from a D90 or so, but of course the files are now 3 or 4 times larger .. so it makes sense.

Note too that just getting a super fast Pro grade Sandisk isn't always the answer.

Check the link that Chris posted to Rob Galbraith. Some lesser known branded cards(less likely to be counterfeit too!) can read and write faster.

I think the brand I got is called Patriot, and is reputed to be 600x speed. (I got mine from MSY)
It operates fast enough to warrant that speed claim too, and cost 1/2 to 1/3 what a similarly specced Sandisk would have cost me when I purchased it a few years back.

[ricktas]

On another note, check out the speed of the Lexar card at the top of the D800 list

Ouch, checked the price out too. Over $300.00 for 32gb, or you can get the 128GB version for around $1000.00. :D. I could buy a D800 or 3 cards..LOL

[rodw]

Ouch, checked the price out too. Over $300.00 for 32gb, or you can get the 128GB version for around $1000.00. :D. I could buy a D800 or 3 cards..LOL

Now you know why I didn't buy a super fast CF card, I think 60 mb/s will be fine for my needs ;)
SD is much more affordable than CF and I prefer them over CF (as I have bent CF pins on a few readers over the years) and have never had one fail.
Still not sure if the camera itself can write fast enough to keep up with the speed of the cards past 60 or 90 mb/s. Maybe there might be some advantage reading data off the card if you use a USB3 interface.

[ricktas]

Now you know why I didn't buy a super fast CF card, I think 60 mb/s will be fine for my needs ;)


Agree, I tend to take my time setting up my shot etc, then take one frame. Recompose etc, and go again. I don't think speed of the card will be a big issue to me. And the D800 looks not to be designed as sport photographer camera etc anyway, its FPS rate is not high enough.

[arthurking83]

Ouch, checked the price out too. Over $300.00 for 32gb, or you can get the 128GB version for around $1000.00. :D. I could buy a D800 or 3 cards..LOL

Yeah! LOL!

Prices are a bit extreme, but you have to take in context.
I purchased my fast cheapie card about 2 or three years back for $95 .. when a similar Sandisk was about $200-250 (depending on how much you like to gamble) .. that's 8G for $100 and it gives me approx 60Mb/s .. but I have yet to test it out properly on a faster connection(or timings on my camera). I just know it's fast enough.

Therefore this faster Lexar 32G card is actually cheaper in a total Gb/$ equation. But I still prefer to have my data spread out over more cards than to have them all on the one card.

[rirakuma]

Hey Arthur can you give me more info on the patriot memory you bought? For those getting a D800 its probably worth the money getting a faster card. When I take a picture in live view it has almost 5s of blackout screen, im guessing its because of the slow write time of the crappy sandisk that I have. Its actually quite annoying, the camera is pretty much unusable during that write time (only happens in live view) :o

[rirakuma]

On another note the live view histogram is a really neat feature!

[Xebadir]

Have decided after that great article posted by Chris (and after deliberation and more reading) I'm going to go with a 32GB '60mb/s' CF and a 32 Extreme Pro SD (95mb/s class 10) as my video available card (price is pretty reasonable for these too). Works out the best for my needs, where I generally don't need a burst rate anyway. Crossing my fingers that 3 D800s will arrive at my supplier next week in this next shipment as I would like to learn the camera before the states trip.

[Chris G]

Yeh that's exactly what I'm doing John as my photography does vary from time to time like the 2 weddings I have coming up one being September and the other in November. Luckily for me they are both for family, but I still wish the D800 would hurry up so I get properly acquainted with in that time before the first one in September as it will be my first FF cam. :eek:

D90 to D800, I'm going to be having so much fun.. :D

[arthurking83]

Hey Arthur can you give me more info on the patriot memory you bought? .....

I just checked MSY's site(the PDF version) and they only have the cheaper 266x cards listed at the moment.

I got mine about two or three years back now, it's been quite heavily used and no problems at all(so far).

If there's an MSY store not far from you, it may be worth going in and asking or seeing for yourself.

here's an image of mine:

87947

There is no brand name on the card, only the P symbol with the stars at the top of the card and the rear face is bare metal only with a faint imprint of the serial No.
I remember the blister pack had the name Patriot on it.

I just had a peek on Ebay, and have noted(and 'watched') a couple of interesting cards listed there. One of which is the Duracell 600x which gets a high score on Rob Galbraith.
$50ish for a fast 16Gig card .. landed!
Unfortunately a quick check on CheapChips hasn't revealed anything of value. Good cards and all that, with the high end Lexars listed at 'reasonable' prices .. but I still think it's just too much for not enough gain.

[mongo]

now that the D800 is really close by the look of it, Mongo has been giving some serious thought as to whether or not to get the D800E model. He knows all that stuff about the low pass filter etc but is the practical difference ? The filter reduces the sharpness but also reduces ill effect too.

This is likely to be Mongo's last camera, so he wants to make the right choice for his type of shooting - long lens wildlife, portraits , macro and landscape (Suppose it does not leave much else ???).

Would particularly love to get Arthur's opinion on this stuff but all information/advice gratefully accepted. will see your replies in the morning - Mongo is going into short overnight hibernation now.

thanks

[arthurking83]

I was curious to know for myself how well this card does, so I did a RG type speed test.

I can't give an accurate assessment of what the Patriot card can ultimately do, but I can explain how the D300 limits in in some way.

I used another of my cards .. a 4G Sandisk Ultra II to compare it with. I also have two other main cards in the form of 8G A-Data cards, that I originally purchased for my Toshiba PDA only .. not for use on the cameras. Those two were purchased cheaply only for their size(at the time) as I needed masses of space for lots of maps.

So the Patriot seems to write too quite quickly, in fact quicker than the D300's buffer can empty! .... this is why I can't give you an accurate assessment of how fast the card ultimately is.
It maxes out the USB2 card reader at 17-20Mb/s in both read and write times .. that's as fast as I can get from the USB2 card reader.
I'm hoping to get a USB3 card reader one day soon too, but it's not a priority.
The Sandisk card I have is only 9-10Mb/s by comparison.

On the D300 with the Patriot card, I can get more than the standard 17 frames before the buffer limit is reached.
If you know Nikon cameras, you'll know that when you half press the release, you see on the top LCD screen (and in some viewfinders) an r figure.
That is, something that looks like r12, or r09, or in the D300's case r17. That's the current buffer limit, and 17 is supposedly the maximum.(note you can set this to a lower figure if you wish too!)

With the Patriot card, my buffer doesn't slow down until I get 20, or sometimes 21, images exposed .. that is, the buffer is clearing out quicker to the card than the buffer can fill up with.
The Sandisk Ultra can't do this at all. It hits the 17 image limit, then there is a definite slow down, a sec or two and you can easily feel for this and stop shooting.
With the Patriot card, you can't. You have to watch the image counter on the review screen, or count frames and then forcibly stop shooting to shoot only 17 frames .. even when you hit the 20th or 21st image, it still shoots quite rapidly in comparison to the Sandisk card.
With the Sandisk card, the camera is simply locked up until the buffer clears a little bit, then you can shoot more again in a burst... and so on.
As would be expected of an older model camera like the D300, the hardware is more limited, in that the buffer clearance times is limited by the camera's hardware, not the card.

FWIW, some times for clearing out the buffer to the card:
Patriot cleared 21 images in about 13-14sec(call it 13.5sec) at 13.2Mb per image, that roughly equals about 20Mb/s write times to the card. I think this low value is more to do with the D300's hardware, than the Patriot card, as I said, by about image number 9 or 10 in the buffer(of 20-21 images), the green light starts to blink as the images are written to the card. That is, the card is waiting for data from the data chip in the camera.
The other quick test I did, was to shoot 6frames on my D300 to see how quickly they wrote to the Patriot card, and the time to green light out was about 4sec or so from pressing the shutter release.
Sandisk UltraII stopped shooting at exactly the 17 image mark every time. The green (card write) light stayed lit for the duration of the 17 images being displayed on the review screen, and then some more.
In total the time(s) from ceasing shooting, to the green light going out was 27sec or so .. 26.75s, 26.94s and so on.
This card is OK .. but only just. I keep it now because I simply have it. I purchased it thinking ... get a Sandisk, everyone swears by them and so on, but I also got burned by them with another card I also purchased. It got corrupted, I lost a few images but in formatting it again after the corruption, I lost the card .. it only red zero bytes capacity. Some internal chip or something went 'pop'.
The only CF card I've ever had trouble with funnily, and I have a swag of cheapie no-name branded cards from various sources(MSY, ebay, etc).

Apologies for going wayyy OT, but I hope you find your fast CF card .. in some cases there'd be nothing more infuriating than having to wait for a card to clear it's throat just when you really don't want it too(eg. wedding shooting or other fast-ish paced situation .. even if it's only 4 frames in a sec!

[arthurking83]

Hey Mongo, I was adding my other reply as you added yours.

For (predominantly) shooting birds I wouldn't choose the E model.
The lower specced low pass filter will most likely cause moire effects in the high frequency patterns in the birds feathers.

Where there is high frequency repeating patterns, such as many fabrics, or distant building textures, or birds feathers, you risk getting moire patterns.
You can get software that reduces the effect, but this is not the same as not getting the effect in the file in the first place.
It(the software) reduces the resolution of the fine detail anyhow, so why bother trying to get it in the first place.

There are particularly good reasons to have the E model, and because I primarily concentrate on this genre, Landscaping comes to mind as a reason to get the E model.
It's very rare to get repeating high frequency details in nature like that.

I've been reading that a lot of folks (on other fora) are interested in an E model for Macro, where you'd expect the extra detail level to be an advantage, but again, in many macro situations you get very fine repeating patterns that will cause moire ..... think of a fly's eyes or very fine hair like structures in a flower.

I hate moire, and while this was a long time ago that I had to deal with it, and software may have come a long way since then, this was with the D70s.
A camera notorious for producing moire whenever it could!
Strange little fact about this camera, is that it used the sensor from the D100, which was less susceptible to moire, I suspect in an attempt from Nikon to get better details. But on the D70/D70s, it kind of backfired. The D70 models obviously had weaker AA filters than the D100 had.
But it was well known too that the D100 image could be brought back up to the same level of detail as an image from the D70's could be got!
USM! Appropriate use of USM got images back up to similar standards of detail to the D70 cameras.
It seemed that Nikon relented with that sensor's AA filter, because they also used it in the D50 and then D40 cameras, but they never had moire issues like the D70s did.

It is true tho that in some cases you will get detail in the image from an E model that you may never get from the non E model, as you would expect from a lower strength AA filter on the same sensor, but you risk seeing this moire issue as well.

There is a great example of the issue on the Nikon site:

http://www.nikonusa.com/Learn-And-Explore/Nikon-Camera-Technology/gy43mjgu/1/Moire-and-False-Color.html?icid=promo-le-dslr-tech-moire

While it's great that you can ultimately get more detail from the E, look at the last image to see the moire patterning.
One thing tho, and that is that even tho the fabric in the kimono did produce moire patterns in the image from the D800E and not the D800, if you look at the sample images from the D800E on the Nikon site, the fabric in the kimono doesn't produce moire colour. So the image can be captured(or processed) to eliminate the issue .. just something to be aware of.

[Chris G]

It maxes out the USB2 card reader at 17-20Mb/s in both read and write times .. that's as fast as I can get from the USB2 card reader.
I'm hoping to get a USB3 card reader one day soon too, but it's not a priority.

Andrew I'm pretty sure you are aware of this but just for reference for others, in order for a USB3.0 to "fully work" you need also a USB3.0 port on your computer otherwise it will only transfer that of a USB2.0
Regardless of card type / speed, unless you are upto date with computer hardware within the last year or less your more than likely not to have USB 3.0 fitted on your main board / computer.
Of course this may effect a very large margin of people who choose to rent or are behind in current computer tech by a generation or 2, this will also be the same with Mac computers / lappyies aswell.

As stated, USB3.0 is backwards compatibility with USB2.0 from the Nikon D800 and anything in that matter but I have been reading around that mac users think that they wouldn't be able to transfer from the D800's USB3.0 to the Mac's USB2.0 because they don't have the USB3.0 port..

This statement is: UNTRUE , The only thing that it affects if the transfer rate of that of a USB3.0 compared to USB2.0 :th3:

[rodw]

Good to see a discussion on chips and a couple of people following my lead but here is a couple of observations.

It is unfair to compare the Sandisk Ultra at 30 mb/s with the Patriot at 90 mb/s (if their 600x is to be believed). But it does show that a 3 fold increase in card speed does not yield much in terms of buffer performance indicating that other restrictions are in play within the camera (eg, 3x increase in card speed only yielded 3 more images in the buffer stakes).

Cheap as chips have a $30 Sandisk USB3 card reader which I bought with my chips. It seems to be fine for me.

If you were going to benchmark card performance you would need to do it on a USB3 reader using a HDD benchmark program. I did this a long time ago with USB2 and FireWire external HDD. Google should unearth something. I'm too lazy to dig back and find out what software I used back then. The results were interesting.

I've got USB3 on my PC and an external USB3 HDD and the performance is blistering so it will be interesting to see the difference in performance between my CF And SD Cards. If I do this, I'd start looking at using the benchmark program while the camera was connected by USB3 and then once performance was understood, look at some speed comparisons of buffer performance against this benchmark data. There is no doubt in my mind that the USB3 interface will NOT be the limiting factor.

[arthurking83]

Hey Chris, that was me(Arthur.. AK83) that said that (quote) about the USB2 slow issue.

I got USB3 covered and have had for a long while now.
All good, I get between 60-90Mb/s from my USB3 enclosed external hdd. So once I get this USB3 reader, the USB interface won't be the bottleneck.

I'm just going to hazard a guess with what I believe this Patriot card to be capable of, and I reckon it'll be a good 40Mb/s once it's allowed to work properly.

LOL on the Mac users USB3/2 concerns.

USB3 is fully backward compatible with USB2 that I know of .. in fact when you have issues with your USB3 connection, the work around is to revert back to USB2 to get the device working again.

Strangely enough I've had this issue and can say from experience .. if your USB3 device suddenly stops connecting via the USB3 connection, there's a very high probability that connecting it to a USB2 port will get it going again!
(had this problem with a problematic USB3 HDD docking station .. that still isn't resolved!)

[Chris G]

Hey Chris, that was me(Arthur.. AK83) that said that (quote) about the USB2 slow issue.

I got USB3 covered and have had for a long while now.
All good, I get between 60-90Mb/s from my USB3 enclosed external hdd. So once I get this USB3 reader, the USB interface won't be the bottleneck.

I'm just going to hazard a guess with what I believe this Patriot card to be capable of, and I reckon it'll be a good 40Mb/s once it's allowed to work properly.

LOL on the Mac users USB3/2 concerns.

USB3 is fully backward compatible with USB2 that I know of .. in fact when you have issues with your USB3 connection, the work around is to revert back to USB2 to get the device working again.

Strangely enough I've had this issue and can say from experience .. if your USB3 device suddenly stops connecting via the USB3 connection, there's a very high probability that connecting it to a USB2 port will get it going again!
(had this problem with a problematic USB3 HDD docking station .. that still isn't resolved!)

lol sorry about the name mix ups Arth, have had a couple of beers... :lol:

Anyway even though I have one of the 'somewhat' of the latest mainboards on the market for top end PCs. I can say that out my 4x USB3 ports, 2 of the 4 has locked up from time to time which has resulted in switching ports back to USB 2.0 to get moving again. But of course this could due to from a number of things, mainly that being the products / hardware I'm using are only USB2.0 compliant and with that could be bottle necking the USB3 somehow???? I suppose it would work in the same respect as a CPU vs GPU, you cant have one more powerful than the other otherwise decreased performance will occur at either end depending on power from either side. Which in turn is always best to get something that will fit in between the mediums.

To much tech talk?.. lol :lol:


Arth yeh I'm not entirely sure what was the go with Mac users complaining about the D800's USB3.0.. :scrtch:

[Tommo1965]

On another note the live view histogram is a really neat feature!


yes that does look like a useful tool...but i dont shoot in liveview much..a d800 might change that

[rirakuma]

yes that does look like a useful tool...but i dont shoot in liveview much..a d800 might change that

If you wanna use Live View with the D800 make sure you get a fast card. I ended up ordering a Lexar 400x SDHC 32gb for $70. I thought about getting a CF card but theyre much more expensive and I don't need the backup feature.

[mongo]

Hey Mongo, I was adding my other reply as you added yours.

For (predominantly) shooting birds I wouldn't choose the E model.
The lower specced low pass filter will most likely cause moire effects in the high frequency patterns in the birds feathers.

Where there is high frequency repeating patterns, such as many fabrics, or distant building textures, or birds feathers, you risk getting moire patterns.
You can get software that reduces the effect, but this is not the same as not getting the effect in the file in the first place.
It(the software) reduces the resolution of the fine detail anyhow, so why bother trying to get it in the first place.

There are particularly good reasons to have the E model, and because I primarily concentrate on this genre, Landscaping comes to mind as a reason to get the E model.
It's very rare to get repeating high frequency details in nature like that.

I've been reading that a lot of folks (on other fora) are interested in an E model for Macro, where you'd expect the extra detail level to be an advantage, but again, in many macro situations you get very fine repeating patterns that will cause moire ..... think of a fly's eyes or very fine hair like structures in a flower.

I hate moire, and while this was a long time ago that I had to deal with it, and software may have come a long way since then, this was with the D70s.
A camera notorious for producing moire whenever it could!
Strange little fact about this camera, is that it used the sensor from the D100, which was less susceptible to moire, I suspect in an attempt from Nikon to get better details. But on the D70/D70s, it kind of backfired. The D70 models obviously had weaker AA filters than the D100 had.
But it was well known too that the D100 image could be brought back up to the same level of detail as an image from the D70's could be got!
USM! Appropriate use of USM got images back up to similar standards of detail to the D70 cameras.
It seemed that Nikon relented with that sensor's AA filter, because they also used it in the D50 and then D40 cameras, but they never had moire issues like the D70s did.

It is true tho that in some cases you will get detail in the image from an E model that you may never get from the non E model, as you would expect from a lower strength AA filter on the same sensor, but you risk seeing this moire issue as well.

There is a great example of the issue on the Nikon site:

http://www.nikonusa.com/Learn-And-Explore/Nikon-Camera-Technology/gy43mjgu/1/Moire-and-False-Color.html?icid=promo-le-dslr-tech-moire

While it's great that you can ultimately get more detail from the E, look at the last image to see the moire patterning.
One thing tho, and that is that even tho the fabric in the kimono did produce moire patterns in the image from the D800E and not the D800, if you look at the sample images from the D800E on the Nikon site, the fabric in the kimono doesn't produce moire colour. So the image can be captured(or processed) to eliminate the issue .. just something to be aware of.

Mongo sends his very big thanks to you Arthur for for the detailed explanation. Mongo was afraid that may be the answer - now he is sure.


There were reasons for the question. The obvious one is that the D800E must have an application and no shortage of buyers and it is a little sharper. Clearly, there are limits to its use- horses for courses it seems


The thing that got Mongo going down the track to that question was also reading that the Fijifilm X-pro 1(for general use) has done away with the low pass filter and gets sharper out of the camera images to start with. The appear to have achieved this by randomizing the red, green and blue pixel arrangement in lots of 6 x 6 pixels. Very clever ! Clearly, Nikon has not done this or has not thought the idea worth while or fiji’s patent is preventing that from happening.


Whilst it is generally true that each successive generation of camera brings real improvements on the last and that the D800 is one of the best things announced by Nikon since Nikon invented sliced bread :D, Mongo now thinks that the D800 is probably one or two generations short of being ideal. It is possible that its successor may incorporate something like the fujifilm technology (giving sharper out of the camera images so we do not have to work so hard in PP trying to get that lost sharpness back) and also Sony’s mirrorless technology giving less vibration and very quick frame counts.


Just a thought - and again, thanks Arthur.

[arthurking83]

I suppose if you have the patience Mongo, you're probably best off waiting until a proper test of the D800E is made, and made with the proviso that moire reduction in software can eliminate it.

If software has progressed enough in that it can clean up the moire in an image and replace it with the proper detail, then the D800E is definitely the way to go.

You've brought up quite a valid point, and if you wait and think things through, sometimes the lightbulb really does turn itself on for you.
(this just happened to be via your question) .. So now I think I'll wait to see how the IQ of the D800E pans out(in terms of software) and then decide too, if I get an E or normal version.

Sometimes, I'm dubious about the use of clever technology to overcome a basic problem(eg like moire).
From what I know of the issue, and the small bits of tech info I've accumulated over time, the only(as I understand it) sensor technology that does eliminate moire is the Foveon(or similar type) sensor, when the AA filter is weakened or removed.
Foveon sensors have all three primary colours over each photosite. The Fuji idea probably sounds as though it ought to work to a degree at least, but I doubt it will completely eliminate it .. and Fuji also have other issues they can't deal with WRT their new sensor technology(white orb issue).

tip: have a quick read of the Sigma DP-1 Merrill over on DPR. The low ISO IQ is very impressive when compared to it's peers. It also doesn't use a low pass filter.

[K10D]

Had a quick look at a D800 and D4 on Tuesday night at my local camera club. One thing that concerns me is that the metering selector switch has now gone to software. A big negative for me. Why are Nikon chasing Canon in video terms? We are losing photographic switches for video functions. I will be seriously looking at either another D700 or a D3 as a second FF body.

Best regards

[I @ M]

Had a quick look at a D800 and D4 on Tuesday night at my local camera club. One thing that concerns me is that the metering selector switch has now gone to software. A big negative for me. Why are Nikon chasing Canon in video terms? We are losing photographic switches for video functions. I will be seriously looking at either another D700 or a D3 as a second FF body.

Best regards

I am sure that you meant to type that it is the focus area selection switch that has changed positions and not the metering "dial" which remains pretty much where it always has been.
I don't see that the change to the way focus area mode selection is made is such a bad thing really, it is still achieved by pushing a button but now it also involves the use of a dial as well. Admittedly I have only briefly used a D7000 which operates in the same way but being able to press a button and rotate a dial while not taking your eye from the view finder (which is where the AF area in use is displayed) seems quite a good idea. Even better is that by doing what they have done, they now have a much more usable video switch than before.
As for video, I have always held the view that if I wanted a video camera I would buy a dedicated one. I guess times have changed as it looks like it will be an inclusion on just about every dslr sold from now on, doesn't seem to add much if anything to the price and it doesn't have to be used if you don't want it and I am definitely looking forward to using a D800 when they hit the shelves of the local camera shop early next decade century.

Since the release of the D800 I have repeatedly voiced my opinion that all the people that are complaining about the apparent or perceived lack of speed and uber fast access to controls with this new body need to examine whether the D800 is really the camera that suits their photography. On the point of controls, we now have a bracket button back in a sensible place which further gives a few clues as to where the camera is aimed at in the marketplace.
I don't know many people that want to shoot fast moving birds or football players at 12 fps and do bracketed exposure bursts. I do on the other hand know quite a few people that will enjoy being able to exposure bracket a landscape or portrait shot at a leisurely pace with the camera on a tripod.

For fast work, the D4 or the ( D3s, positive bargain at the moment ) is at the top of the pile and the D700 is more of an all round body that hasn't suddenly stopped taking great images and is also selling at very tempting prices.

[arthurking83]

.....
As for video, I have always held the view that if I wanted a video camera I would buy a dedicated one. ......

Yep! and in most circumstances you'll get a better quality video from it(ie. more features and performance specs) ... but!....

But, there's a price to pay, and that's either through the nose, or at the cheaper end, the inability to use all your favourite lenses, and then some.

You either get a nice performing all-in-one kit with fast frame rates, and stable and clean IQ, but you'll be stuck with the dinky slow lens that it welded to it, or you pay massively through the nose and then again(pay through the nose!!) for the adapter to mount the lenses you already have.

Both of those features are two aspects I'd prefer not to deal with, and if I had the $5 to spend on a video body to get some good video features .. well that quite a few more lenses to add to the kit instead!

Video in DSLR's is a feature I've been waiting for for a long time.

I don't view video in DSLR as a negative in any way, but I do agree that adding a switch for it, that is readily at hand is a bit of a waste.
Live view on the other hand should have a dedicated switch .. for example right where they placed it on the D800! :D ...

As for the focus mode selector... this is one button I rarely use! .. to remove it and use some other less intrusive method is not only NOT a tragedy, but also to be heralded as a step forward.
Why would you want to switch from single point focus anyhow?
And as I believe it to work, as Andrew said .. it seems to make more sense to use the focus button/switch to do ALL the focus selection features and functions, rather than a hotpotch of one switch here and another there. That doesn't make sense!!

The other day, I tried to show my brother what this focusing feature did, and tried to use 3D tracking as the example .. completely forgot where the switch was for a moment, as my focus mode switch hasn't been touched in about 3 or 4 years! .. I briefly thought that the CSM switch was going to change to 3D tracking .. doh!

The only feature that I've wanted for a long time too is that they finally have added AutoISO to the list of possible ISO values on the ISO switch and in a round robin selection method(where you can keep rotating from Lo1 to Hi2 to Auto to Lo1 again. Having to scroll from Hi2 down to base or Lo1 can be a pain.

[I @ M]

Yep! and in most circumstances you'll get a better quality video from it(ie. more features and performance specs) ------------ and if I had the $5 to spend on a video body to get some good video features .

Yep, that sums it up to me. Total expenditure needed. :D

Besides, I read the other day that they limit the recording time to just under 30 mins for some reason or another and then someone noted that it was a good thing because it allowed them to edit out 28 minutes of crap easily. :p

[rodw]

Yep, that sums it up to me. Total expenditure needed. :D

Besides, I read the other day that they limit the recording time to just under 30 mins for some reason or another and then someone noted that it was a good thing because it allowed them to edit out 28 minutes of crap easily. :p

I must say that the video features are an added bonus for me and is one reason why I waited for the D800 instead of grabbing a D700. Not that I expect to use it a lot but to get a broadcast quality video camera for free is very appealing.

I've played around with video in the past but always gravitated back to still photos. Now the editing is much easier in Premiere and Final Cut Pro so maybe I might use it a bit more. I can't see the 30 min limit is an issue for anything I do. The only thing I can think of would be if you were filming a live event and you wanted to devote one camera to record a master track so you got all of the audio and a wide shot. A cheap dedicated camera would be fine for this as you probably would not use much footage from this source.

I think if you are planning in using video, you should budget on a video microphone (eg. Rode) and maybe a zoom hn4 audio recorder and possibly a wired lapel mic. Might cost a bit more than $5 but it would come in well under $500!

[rodw]

On the topic of video, this one is an interesting D800 example.

http://vimeo.com/40363062

[arthurking83]

Had a quick play with a D800 today.
(my cousin got one!! .. barstard!!).
Didn't get much of a chance to play with it, a few snaps here and there, and only with his card.
He was coming as I was going, and we had a long catchup chat and all that.
Would have loved to get some timings info using my CF card.
LOL! a 4G card only gives you an estimated 97 images(NEF)!! :p

Camera feels good, all the switches fall to hand nicely and the new CSM focus switch makes perfectly good sense too!(I use that quite a lot on my old screw driven lenses).

All other buttons and switches are well placed, and feel quite natural with me coming from a D300, and D700 users will feel right at home, unless they regularly use the focus mode switch a lot.

My brother also got himself a D5100 as well, for his impending holidays. Of course it's a great lil camera, but that the problem with it .. it's so damned LITTLE!
Controls are hard to use, it can only be held with the use of your fingers, not the whole hand.
Even tho it's a Nikon, I can't easily(or quickly) get my head around the Info menu.
It's hard to setup the camera for him, but he's slowly working through it all.
I think I'm getting my brother hooked on photography, now that he's beginning to understand it a bit.

Anyhow, the D800 looks to be quite good .. but unfortunately not the uber intelligent image capture device as I wanted it to be :confused013
.... Took a few snaps around the dinner table tonight, under very bad(mixed lighting) and the images turned out as badly whitebalanced as I get with my 4 year older D300! :p
The lights are quite bad though, and I still haven't had a chance to replace them!
(@ my folks place, but it's a moot point now, as the house is going to be demolished in a few months time anyhow).

Strangely, my cousin Tony got his D800 three weeks ago now!
Didn't think to ask him from where! .. doh! .. but he paid the proper $3400 for it.


What I'm pissed with now is that, that bird eating lil monster Mongo!!! .. he's now got me thinking a D800E is what I may really want :confused: .. damn that Mongo! :D

Oh! .... and I can't see myself shooting video for more than 30min either .. at least not with a DSLR form factor.
I actually came into still imaging from an interest in video.
I took up media studies in high school, and ended up liking the photography side of things just as much ... except the stinky nausea inducing darkroom processing side of things tho!

[rirakuma]

Thats weird, my 32GB card only holds 399 NEF images. I agree with the mixed lighting auto WB, its not spot on but fixable in PP.

[Tommo1965]

Ive been reading quite a few negative posts at DPR about the D800 these include lock ups, faulty AF sensors, yellow colour casts on the rear LCD, given these issues as reliable, how many are rethinking a D800 purchase, and would rather wait until the D800 dust settles... particularly if you was contemplating a overseas purchase

its got me thinking...Id given up my plans on buying a used D700 and instead go all out and get a D800 and be a happy camper for a few years but now Im gonna wait until they are freely available and problems fixed..might take a while I know...I also think the current price is too much...perhaps that might settle too...a gamble I know

[arthurking83]

Ive been reading quite a few negative posts at DPR ......

You need a really good sense of humour to read the garbage .. idiocy ... Err... I mean writings on DPR's forums! :D

99.999% tripe, posted by 12 year olds with too much time to surf the net.

So far on the more serious Nikon boards and forums, there seems to be no indication of any issues that I've read about.

Do yourself a favour and stop reading DPR's forum boards .. especially the fanboi .. I mean, gear related forums.

[I @ M]

I also think the current price is too much

I thought the same thing about the last Rolls Royce I purchased.
But, in the end I swallowed my pride, extended the credit card and have had several years of trouble free use of it now instead of waiting for the price to drop and not using it.
You have to hand it to matchbox, they make the best die cast products going. :D


99.999% tripe, posted by 12 year olds with too much time to surf the net.

plos plus wun won !!!!!!


Do yourself a favour and stop reading DPR's forum boards .. especially the fanboi .. I mean, gear related forums.

Wat wood u no, you are torking garbidge agin and i am sic of ur nikon fanboy atitood and i am switching to canon tomorrow coz i can go and by a 1dx at wallmart tomorow!!!

[Tommo1965]

yes Arthur Im well aware of the crap that touted at DPR...but there is some wheat amongst the chaff......Ming Thien was the first Tog that I read that had the AF sensor alignment issue he got confirmation from Nikon in Malaysia that its real...so I dont doubt that it is ...seems a few early adopter pains to me ...



http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/03/30/update-on-nikon-d800-focusing-issues/

[arthurking83]

[QUOTE=I @ M;1008324]......



AHA!! I knew I'd flush you out evechally! .... Ewes were spamming the boreds with all that tech talk! :D

I alredy got my 1D-X the other week, and it's OK .. just waiting for the 1D-C-4K to arrive in the next day or tow so I can get propar video done for my school project .. film production that I'm working on for Spielberg and Lucas.
There've been happy with my pics from the D4 and D800 so far, but thay complained about graininess, so I had to get a 1D-X and then 1D C 4K to appease them, I think their Canon fanbois at heart byt just wont admit it.


:scrtch:

If that looks or sounds familiar it's probably because you've already read something similar on DPR's boreds!! ;)

[Redgum]

Why do early adopters pay such a high premium for beta testing the D800 technology (or any technology)? When Australia was well down the distribution list it didn't matter that much but now we are on the priority list it seems many togs are suckers for punishment. Fair enough, I got my D800 for nothing but it goes back when I return from Peru and will probably be replaced with a discounted unit if it does what I need. But consumer uses can pay a high price (purchase & servicing) if there happens to be a problem.
Cameras, like any other technology, are subject to faults and this is pretty common. Some faults are simple software updates but others can be serious and require the return of a unit which is never convenient particularly when you have already paid a premium price.
As a journo I review technology daily and you can count on 70% of complaints originate in the first three months of life. After that things seem to settle down.
The moral I guess is to wait longer and pay less for better results.

[Xebadir]

I honestly don't think it makes one Iota of difference Redgum. We all know consumer electronics these days are not designed to be long lasting, and there is always a chance you will just get a lemon when you buy anyway (no matter how long it is into a products lifecycle) - its just the way things go with quality control mechanisms far from flawless and checking every unit (a sypmtom of mass production). Paying a premium? I honestly doubt that we will see a fall in the price of the D800 in the next year (note this may not reflect the unit price at Australian Overpriced Retailers which may give a false falling appearance). At the very least. As for the service well that remains to be seen, havent seen anything too worrying on a mass scale yet.

Was happy to learn that my D800 will be arriving later this week, so looking forward to getting a real hands on assessment and start learning the features before the annual US stormchasing trip.

[Lance B]

I honestly don't think it makes one Iota of difference Redgum. We all know consumer electronics these days are not designed to be long lasting, and there is always a chance you will just get a lemon when you buy anyway (no matter how long it is into a products lifecycle) - its just the way things go with quality control mechanisms far from flawless and checking every unit (a sypmtom of mass production). Paying a premium? I honestly doubt that we will see a fall in the price of the D800 in the next year (note this may not reflect the unit price at Australian Overpriced Retailers which may give a false falling appearance). At the very least. As for the service well that remains to be seen, havent seen anything too worrying on a mass scale yet.

Agreed. This is the price we pay for technology nowadays and I also don't see the price of the D800 falling anytime in the foreseeable future. The price has been set and that is where it will remain until nearer the model cycle, just like the D700. As you say, the Aussie Retailers will dig their heels in with regards to pricing.

As for QC, it is generally better on the pro spec models than the consumer/prosumer models as this is part of the reason for higher pricing of these models. This has more to do with the fact that there are more in system and more elaborate checking procedures of these pro sepc models compared to the lower end consumer/prosumer models.

[Chris G]

Yeh but isn't the only real reason that we are such a over marked price is due the GST?

As most should know and which is oblivious to what retailers are doing is actually charging us the end consumer whatever the gst cost them which ends being about 30% more + whatever they desire to put ontop after that 30% due the fact that they have already paid out for their 10% so whatever is charged after is straight into the pockets without the need to claim anything aslong as the 10% has been charged somewhere along the line..

Import 10%, wholesaler 20%, Retailer 30% = end consumer ????%

I do apologise as this is waaaaaaaay off topic nor am I starting a flame and if such just remove.. ;)

[rodw]

Agreed we will pay more for GST by 10%. Personally, I thought the Aussie pricing is not too bad compared with US pricing even when exchange rates are taken into account. Our street price is still below that in Japan and well under British and European prices.

All in all the $3400 I will pay is close to the US price after deductiong GST. It is unusual for the US and Aussie prices on any technology to be so close together which to me indicates that Nikon has decided it has to brice more fairly accross the globe. I guess that is one advantage from them taking over distribution directly in this country rather than going through a Distributor (which was Maxwells).

[reaction]

One thing about the D800E and AA, you may be able to take out moire easily in RAW files, but doing the same for video will probably be a PITA if not impossible. I think that's why Nikon is pushing people to go D800 unless they know what they're doing.

[arthurking83]

(I'm talking Nikon Aus here)
But back in the early days of D700, Nikon Aus had it initially listed for something like $4K initially, and it was about $5K with the 24-120 f/3.5-5.6 VR lens back then.. not the newer constant f/4 lens that have now.
This was when the Aussie dollar was struggling to achieve US0.70c to our dollar, so it was harder for them to maintain a level of parity.. for sure.. but even taking that into account, you could get an import at US$3k, + 300GST, and $50 shipping landed here in Aus!! Nikon Aus's pricing policy simply didn't add up .. and surely they are getting it cheaper than the HK based shops!(not wholesalers in HK, but the camera shops).

Completely unacceptable, as it reeked of price gouging.

About 6 months after the camera became available for actual sale(which was months after announcement), prices dropped significantly, where my cousin(who recently got his D800 also) purchased his D700 for $2400, from a local based grey importer.

I can't see the D800 dropping in price too far from the RRP of US$3K even in the long term as it's already a pretty good price in relative terms compared to the rest of the world.
But it will drop! .... once the excitement has abated a bit as those who were desperate to get theirs, prices will probably stabilise at the US$2500-2400 mark in the long term, as has happened in the past.

happens with all Nikon gear.. lenses that initially started at $2200, now have street prices of $1700.. etc, etc.. ad infinitum .

Are you prepared to wait until the prices drop by this expected $500?

It's a matter of personal priority whether you do or don't. Having the extra features that the D800 offers over your current camera may be worth $500.
I've been waiting for ever and a day for a proper Nikon body with decent video features, and now it's come.
I've had a few video based projects running amok in my head for well over a year now, and in a sense time is running out(my elderly mother who may not survive more than another year).

Family want video of mum, for posterity, and I want to do it as best as I can .. and can afford.
The $500 price premium is not an issue for me, as it wasn't when I got my D300 four and a bit years back.

My current issue is the $2K shortfall I have for a D800, but in a few months, I should be set to go(hopefully), and I'm happy to wait and more so, to see if the E model's moire issue is going to be a long term problem.

[Chris G]

Personally I think its just rude for some retailers to be charging that 3.8 to 4k+ price and being advertising at 6FPS Oo

Honestly I was excepting the D800 to be around 4-5k as it was but when I seen it for that of 3.4k non grey and still with a 2 year Aust warranty , I was all over that in a flash :th3: lol

I agree though with the E model and the video without a AA filter will be interesting to see how that is handled in the real world. But from what I've seen from a modded version of a 5Dmk II or III with the AA filter removed it did produce a much sharper HD video..

[rodw]

Personally I think its just rude for some retailers to be charging that 3.8 to 4k+ price and being advertising at 6FPS Oo

Honestly I was excepting the D800 to be around 4-5k as it was but when I seen it for that of 3.4k non grey and still with a 2 year Aust warranty , I was all over that in a flash :th3: lol

I agree though with the E model and the video without a AA filter will be interesting to see how that is handled in the real world. But from what I've seen from a modded version of a 5Dmk II or III with the AA filter removed it did produce a much sharper HD video..

I really don't think history is all that relevant when the D800 is creating a new market niche where supply vastly exceeds damand and the competitor from Canon is priced higher. Nikon originally quoted a RRP on their .au web site but it has now gone. Official prices in other markets have been increased. The US is 10 times the size of the .au market and for this reason, the US prices are the cheapest in the world.

I happened to be down the Gold Coast today and had a few spare minutes at lunch time so I wandered into Teds Cameras. I was going to pick their brains about availability but before I did, I overheard one of their staff fielding a phone call about the same topic. I heard him say that all orders were being handled through Nikon for NPS members only and if you wanted to get one, you needed do put yourself on the NPS list and then explained that they needed an ABN and Nikon would ask for a body of work to establish eligibility because of the overwhelming demand for the D800. They had no interest in taking a deposit from the guy on the phone. I'm a body or two short of making the NPS cut, so I guess it might take some time before mine arrives.

So guys, if you think prices will fall in the next 12 months in the face of this demand without some other external factor that forces Nikon's hand while it has to refill the coffers after two terrible natural disasters, you must be dreaming!

[arthurking83]

I think people need to get a bit of perspective here too at some point.

Yeah, the D800 looks great and is good and etc, but Nikon didn't create the market niche that the D800 now has entered into!

Sony did that with their A900 and later A800 a few years back.

24Mp full frame cameras for less than the D800 is currently selling at .. back then!
And all that Nikon could dream up with that sensor, was the close to useless D3x(useless in that it wasn't readily or easily obtainable by the broader community).

That the D800 currently has the largest number of pixels is true, but if taken into real context, Nikon have not created a market segment here, or a niche.
It's niche or specific new market to us Nikon users only .. and about bloody time!

Sony created the market, Nikon have finally followed 3 years later! :rolleyes:

I'm usually more prone to sing to the same tune of 'all hail to Nikon', but have been reluctant to do so for many years now.
Lets see what Sony have up their sleeve with this same sensor huh?
(although in saying that, they have been well known for not getting the best out of their own sensor's technology, as their customers have been able too .. ie. Pentax/Nikon with the 15Mp sensor, and Nikon with the 24Mp ff sensor).

I'm curious as to what Nikon (Aus) has listed for RRP on the D800?

[rodw]

I'm curious as to what Nikon (Aus) has listed for RRP on the D800?

On 15 Feb my dealer said in an email to me

[QUOTE=Camerapro]
"Thank you very much for your recent order with us for the Nikon D800.

We are excited to announce the pricing has officially been released on these by Nikon Australia.

The RRP has come in at $3899 incl GST, with our own pricing advertised at $3425 incl GST"
[QUOTE]

At that time the RRP quoted to me above was shown on the Nikon product listing for the D800. Today, the price has been removed from Nikon's web site. Probably in preparation for a price rise is my take on it.

Its not about who created the market but simply about Supply and demand for this camera.

[Redgum]

Agreed we will pay more for GST by 10%. Personally, I thought the Aussie pricing is not too bad compared with US pricing even when exchange rates are taken into account. Our street price is still below that in Japan and well under British and European prices.

All in all the $3400 I will pay is close to the US price after deductiong GST. It is unusual for the US and Aussie prices on any technology to be so close together which to me indicates that Nikon has decided it has to brice more fairly accross the globe. I guess that is one advantage from them taking over distribution directly in this country rather than going through a Distributor (which was Maxwells).
Just to clarify a couple of things, Rod. GST has nothing to do with pricing. The US has both federal and state taxes almost double those in Oz. Keep in mind that Nikon Australia is simply a local distributor and is in no way related to Nikon International other than by distribution contract. If the market was a little larger it would be great to see two distributors in Oz for Nikon and then we would see great local prices. Monopolies never serve the buyer.

[Xebadir]

Just to clarify a couple of things, Rod. GST has nothing to do with pricing. The US has both federal and state taxes almost double those in Oz. Keep in mind that Nikon Australia is simply a local distributor and is in no way related to Nikon International other than by distribution contract. If the market was a little larger it would be great to see two distributors in Oz for Nikon and then we would see great local prices. Monopolies never serve the buyer.

Given that Nikon USA as far as I am aware is a single distributor that makes absolutely no sense ? We get screwed in Australia for most things because:
1) Australians don't tend to complain and tend to put up with high prices without shopping with their feet - until the advent of online shopping this was near total.
2) Pan-global companies price things higher for what is perceived as a sucker market who want to make excuses for the level of demand as to the reasoning for the higher prices. It may have been true in the past, but we are as big as a number of European countries, and our demand levels thanks to our income are disproportionately high.

I am actually please to see for this camera that the price has been kept fairly close to the international level, but our retailers have high prices because of their own margins, and the margins of the middle man. Its true for nearly everything Australia - our prices are double or treble for most things compared to say the United states, and parts of Europe.

[rodw]

Nikon Australia is a wholly owned sales and service subsidiary (of the parent company) established in Sydney in 2006. Read Nikon's web site or conduct a company search.

As such, Nikon can decide the transfer price between its subsidiary and the parent in Japan. They need to ensure there is at least enough profit left in Australia to cover operational costs but they can choose to leave as much or as little in our country as they like by varying the prices and or other management charges levied on the subsidiary. And yes, they can choose the price they sell in this market to be whatever they like. The cost of doing business varies from country to country so prices do vary to account for this (and why my bookkeeper lives in India).

I think the good thing for consumers is that thee move from a 30% sales tax to a 10% GST has faded into the past and Nikon have adjusted prices downwards accordingly to address the impact of the global economy and channel more product through their official distribution channel so they have a greater understanding of the market size and dynamics.

[arthurking83]

Nikon Australia is a wholly owned sales and service subsidiary (of the parent company) established in Sydney in 2006. Read Nikon's web site or conduct a company search.

....

That's what I thought too.

I remember the transition from Maxwell's to Nikon Aus way back when.... and that they were wholly owned by Nikon Inc!

[Xebadir]

Interesting Comparison and Review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UBTE4xpvpk&feature=player_embedded#!

[rodw]

Interesting Comparison and Review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UBTE4xpvpk&feature=player_embedded#!

Thanks for that, I've been waiting for their 3rd D800 video and you found it for me!

[rodw]

Just got another email about my order


The good news is that given the shipment earlier this month, we have managed to fulfill a number of orders, which has in turn moved your order up in queue.

Based on the volume of bodies received so far, and given your position in queue, we are confident that we will be able to fulfill your order in the first half of May.

Nice to know some are arriving in the country and we are not forgotten about. Few more weeks won't hurt I guess!

[Chris G]

Just got another email about my order



Nice to know some are arriving in the country and we are not forgotten about. Few more weeks won't hurt I guess!

Haha nice one, mine says second half.. Here's to hoping before Sydney Vivid show lol.

Also Cheers for vid X :th3:

[Chris G]

Here's a interesting read regarding the D800e and moire, though to how accurate this is, its kinda mmm..

Link Here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/nikon_d800_d800e_first_comparison.shtml)

Thought I'd share it anyway as I know some of you are interested in the D00e ;)

[arthurking83]

Here's a interesting read regarding the D800e and moire, though to how accurate this is, its kinda mmm..

......


Luminous Landscape is a well respected photography related site, so it can be trusted as accurate.
Just be mindful tho, that this is his version of the camera and any lenses, others folks may find differing results in their testing and comparisons.

Interesting that he couldn't induce moire in any of his test shots, and I'm sure he's clever enough to have pulled out any article of fine grained clothing to test on.
LOL! I should give him my D70s to play with! :D

The one thing in LL's testing that I found to be curious, is his 'sharpening' test.
Yeah, you can sharpen an non filtered image as much as you can an image from a filtered camera, but the point is that you shoudl be able to sharpen the non filtered image MORE!!

The important operative word there is 'more'!!
He said it himself, that the theory is that you sharpen an unfiltered image more due to the effects of the AA filter .. yet he didn't' do this, or show any samples of the differences in IQ with different levels of sharpening applied.

My experience is that the ability to sharpen more in decreased as the size of the photosite on a sensor is decreasd.
That is, D70s images can be sharpened more aggressively than a D300's image can.
I barely use half the sharpening on D300 images that I used to use on D70s images.
It seemed to me that the more detail there was already in the image, the more haloing was produced with increasing sharpening levels.

The point is, can the D800 images be sharpened to the point that they look exactly as they do from the D800E(or close enough to it) to warrant the E model as theoretically unnecessary?


But this is kind'a good news .. if the filtering that Nikon have used in place of the standard AA filter can minimise moire in some way, then maybe the E is the version to go for.
That is, if moire is harder to induce that initially expected then if it does happen, it may happen only in very extreme instances and in very small subtle amounts.

It should be noted that there is a difference between removing the AA filter, and substituting another filter arrangement in it's place.
Most other manufacturers that have models without AA filter have simply chosen not to fit a filter full stop!
What Nikon have done tho, is to fit a filter, and then fit another filter to undo the effects of the first filter.
There may be a subsequent loss of some super fine detail, but the sample images in that LL article seems to follow conventional wisdom and the difference between E and standard D800's is what one would expect.

So far it looks good .. E model may be the way to go(even for Mongo and his appetite for finely detailed birds!).

[Chris G]

Yeah, you can sharpen an non filtered image as much as you can an image from a filtered camera, but the point is that you shoudl be able to sharpen the non filtered image MORE!!

Thats what I thought due the fact that there is suppose to be / is alot more detail within a AA filter removed camera.. I don't understand why it would be backwards or remain the same even if up or down scaling is used.

Though I'm pretty sure the moire will only show up on certain lenes aswell, more so on some, less on others with focal and everything else playing factor to effect the end result as the light passes through the lens onto the sensor. :confused013

[arthurking83]

OOH! I said that wrong .. sorry early morning dyslexia!

That was supposed to read a filtered image should allow the possibility to sharpen more than the non filtered image.

That is, you should be able to sharpen up a D800 image to match(or closely match) that of the D800E by using more USM on the D800 image.

Once you achieve a specific amount of detail, the sensor simply won't allow you to reveal more detail in the image.
(that's supposed to be the theory .. image detail is tied to pixel sizes and amounts for any given sensor type, design or manufacture).

The AA filter is simply a blurring filter. The blurring is to eliminate image detail artefacts that aren't really there. This happens with moire. Fine repetitive line detail is eventually rendered into a coloured pattern, as the lines get closer. The AA filter blurs the fine line detail a bit to eliminate or minimise the possibility of these coloured details that aren't there.
That blurring is supposed to be reversible with the use of USM, or other sharpening tools(eg. high pass sharpening).

I've seen it work, and not at different levels of success.

I'm hoping that DPR do a test session soon between the two D800's.
While their testing can be dubious sometimes .. I can't remember specifics .. they do have a reasonable set of base line testing methods that help to highlight differences between sensors and their strengths and weaknesses.
(have you seen DPR's test of the Sigma SD-1? .. good test and one to have a look at, and how well it performs against it's 'competitors')
I'm waiting to see their sample images of the resolution chart taken with the D800's.

People claim that these are not real tests, and not real world .. etc, etc.. but they are controlled conditions which is all that's important. The ability to compare different devices in as good as 'like for like situation'.

[Chris G]

So without the AA filter in place you are already gaining that almost maximum level of detail per mega pixel, hence why you can't really sharpen it any further then it already is to some respect.

So its basicly bit mapping an image without the support of the AA filter.. Thus crisper results but with a increase chance of moire as there's nothing there to blend the 2 mapping layers.. How am I doing? lol

its interesting to me.. :th3:

[arthurking83]

.....

So its basicly bit mapping an image without the support of the AA filter.. Thus crisper results but with a increase chance of moire as there's nothing there to blend the 2 mapping layers.. How am I doing? lol

....

LOL??? .... mate!! .... you lost me at the "bit mapping" part! :D

The only interest I have(and have had) in the moire discussion is that once you get in 'ya images, it's hard to remove.
I researched quite a bit into this issue years back when I got lots of images affected by moire from the D70s.
D70/70s had the same sensor as the D100, but obviously at a cheaper price, but it also had a weaker AA filter than the D100.
Images were supposedly more detailed from the D70's compared to D100 images, but many folks that had both cameras posted good images with various levels of sharpening on the test images.
These comparative images showed that the D100 image was more accommodating of more post process sharpening than the D70's was.

At this point in time, the D200 was quite new and it showed better image detail in it's images compared to both, but again, using the same level of sharpening on the D200 images produced more artefacts(haloing) when compared to the D70 and D100 images.
But this also assumed that the images were shot with super sharp lenses to begin with and that the lens didn't produce any detail degradation.

What I'm more interested in for now with respect to D800E is if the moire can be processed out of an image, and if so how well does each software effect this removal.

In the old days, I converted to Nikon Capture and then CaptureNX(version 1) for it's simpler to use processing.(from PS version .. earlybird) CS 1 or 2 .. can't remember).

I found that neither software could totally remove moire in most situations, while it did help a little.

Haven't used that tool in CNX2 to see if it works, and I reckon I've almost certainly deleted any D70 images that had been affected .. but I have too many images to search through individually.
Also, I haven't yet seen any D800E raw files for download to play with myself.

[Lance B]

The video reinforces my results with regards to DR for the D800. The D800's DR is senstational at low ISO's but you need to make sure that you use that DR from the shadows not the highlights, so be careful not to blow the higlights. This has been borne out with my (limited) testing so far, preserve the highlights.

It would be a wonderful inclusion if the D800 had a highlight preservation button or option which you could custom tune in the menu to preserve a certain % of the highlights. When there is huge DR, you could set it to preserve say, 95% of the photo from blowing the highlights as you know that any more than that is not necessary to preserve the detail in those highlighted areas for that particular shot.

[Chris G]

LOL??? .... mate!! .... you lost me at the "bit mapping" part! :D

The only interest I have(and have had) in the moire discussion is that once you get in 'ya images, it's hard to remove.
I researched quite a bit into this issue years back when I got lots of images affected by moire from the D70s.
D70/70s had the same sensor as the D100, but obviously at a cheaper price, but it also had a weaker AA filter than the D100.
Images were supposedly more detailed from the D70's compared to D100 images, but many folks that had both cameras posted good images with various levels of sharpening on the test images.
These comparative images showed that the D100 image was more accommodating of more post process sharpening than the D70's was.

At this point in time, the D200 was quite new and it showed better image detail in it's images compared to both, but again, using the same level of sharpening on the D200 images produced more artefacts(haloing) when compared to the D70 and D100 images.
But this also assumed that the images were shot with super sharp lenses to begin with and that the lens didn't produce any detail degradation.

What I'm more interested in for now with respect to D800E is if the moire can be processed out of an image, and if so how well does each software effect this removal.

In the old days, I converted to Nikon Capture and then CaptureNX(version 1) for it's simpler to use processing.(from PS version .. earlybird) CS 1 or 2 .. can't remember).

I found that neither software could totally remove moire in most situations, while it did help a little.

Haven't used that tool in CNX2 to see if it works, and I reckon I've almost certainly deleted any D70 images that had been affected .. but I have too many images to search through individually.
Also, I haven't yet seen any D800E raw files for download to play with myself.

eerrrrr I was confusing myself with pattens and bitmapping.. LOL!

Though I will keep an eye out for a D800e raw

[farmer_rob]

I'm quite intrigued by the idea that the d800e is "better" for video than the d800. Given that video is 1080 x 1920 pixels (about mpixels) and the d800 sensor is giving 36 mpixels, there is implicit pixel binning anyway. I can't see that the anti-alias filter makes a difference for video.

[Xebadir]

So my D800 arrived today ;). Will be posting up some test shots later on. Out of box - very impressed, nice looking camera with a scary number of buttons.
First things I noticed - joypad is a heck of alot my user friendly, the reduced height of the gripping on the right hand side of the camera is very noticeable for me (big hands), the weight difference is surprisingly noticeable, and the reversal of the + and - buttons when switching between the D700 and D800 is going to be a source of constant amusement. So now I have under a month to learn the camera - weee.

[Lance B]

So my D800 arrived today ;). Will be posting up some test shots later on. Out of box - very impressed, nice looking camera with a scary number of buttons.
First things I noticed - joypad is a heck of alot my user friendly, the reduced height of the gripping on the right hand side of the camera is very noticeable for me (big hands), the weight difference is surprisingly noticeable, and the reversal of the + and - buttons when switching between the D700 and D800 is going to be a source of constant amusement. So now I have under a month to learn the camera - weee.

Congrats on obtainign your D800.

Like me, you have also noticed the weight difference between it and the D700, which was the first thing I noticed. A 10% weight saving is quite a bit and yet the camera feels just as solid if not more so.

Interestingly, I have yet to fall victim to the reversed + and - buttons for the photo review, knock on wood. :)

Look forward to your first photos and more of your thoughts after extended use.

[Sar NOP]

On Sunday and on Monday, I was able to do some test shots with the D800. I'm firstly really impressed by its AF performances (on Monday, I spent a few hours shooting birds in flight under light rain) and its IQ at high ISO.
I think this is an excellent multi-purpose camera.


#1 : Indoor @6400 ISO
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7402/d8c0547resize2.jpg


Crop 100%
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/622/d8c0547crop100.jpg






Impressive stability despite its 36mpix !
#2 : 1/25", @400mm, 800 ISO, handheld.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4292/d8c0392resize2.jpg


Crop 100%
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/497/d8c0392crop10036mpix.jpg






#3 : Impressive resolution even under rainy conditions !
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5416/d8c0821resize3.jpg


Crop 100%
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5126/d8c0821crop100.jpg

[Sar NOP]

First attempt with a 2x TC on the 200-400 :

#4 : @6400 ISO, handheld.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/162/d8c1176resize3.jpg

[Xebadir]

Thanks for the set SAR. Now that I've been running a few tests of my own its nice to see the other applications and the sort of potential this body has - if only it would stop raining like it has in Melbourne over the last two days so I can really get out there and start taking photos. Seeing that last shot with the 2xTC III has only increased my desire to get my hands on one of these once I get back from the states (and have some disposable - for some reason this students bank balance isn't looking too happy after I hit it with the purchase of a 70-200 and a D800 ;)). While I really like my 70-200 - on full frame for birds/wildlife the 2X comes into its own. I will be putting my copy through its paces over in the states - we will see how it handles the rather rough treatment of a stormchaser, how the weather sealing copes and its performance in pretty much some of the worst conditions mother nature can throw at a camera.

[rodw]

Saw this for sale
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ashfield/digital-cameras/nikon-d800-with-spare-battery/1001910880

Pretty realistically priced with the extra battery so might be worth considering if you can't wait until a pre-order turns up with your name on it. I am happy to wait.

[I @ M]

Saw this for sale
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ashfield/digital-cameras/nikon-d800-with-spare-battery/1001910880

Pretty realistically priced with the extra battery so might be worth considering if you can't wait until a pre-order turns up with your name on it. I am happy to wait.

If it is too good to be true it probably isn't true.
I find it hard to believe that person is selling that body and battery at that price on gumtree ebay when he could easily make another $300.00 on the deal.
Smells like a scam to me especially when they simply post a catalogue image of the goods.

[arthurking83]

The interlinked notions of:

"a two week old <insert any device here>" and "had very little use" should have alarm bells ringing immediately.

The least you would do is to give the device a bit of a chance.

that looks like an easy way to lose $3.5K.

[swifty]

Proceed with caution but not necessarily a scam.
Gumtree replies now go through gumtree somehow without revealing the various party's email.
If the seller agrees to exchange in person and has the original receipt then ok, continue with the transaction at your own discretion.
If its the usual, 'I'm actually in London/NY/Paris right now but can arrange for X/Y/Z watertight safe method of payment' then just report the ad.

[Lance B]

I missed seeing these shots up until now, Sar. Magnificent first shots and wonderful detail being shown! :th3:

[rodw]

Proceed with caution but not necessarily a scam.
Gumtree replies now go through gumtree somehow without revealing the various party's email.
If the seller agrees to exchange in person and has the original receipt then ok, continue with the transaction at your own discretion.
If its the usual, 'I'm actually in London/NY/Paris right now but can arrange for X/Y/Z watertight safe method of payment' then just report the ad.

Yes, if I lived near Newcastle, I would give the guy a call as the number is on the listing. Agree caution is required. Since I saw that listing, there is another similar listing at $1500 which spells SCAM to me.

Not everyone wants to make a profit in such circumstances some would be hapy just to get their money back.

[Tommo1965]

there's also one listed in Perth , gumtree is a scammers paradise...and there's no way in hell Id ever buy anything unless its in my home state and I can pick it up

loads of D700 scams too





http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/atwell/digital-cameras/nikon-d800-body/1001818576

[I @ M]

gumtree is a scammers paradise...

Gumtree and ebay are different in one area only.
Gumtree is where the scammers that can't afford the ebay listing fees post their ads.
Gumtree IS ebay, simply scroll to the bottom of the page on any listing and you will see that plain as day.
A nice little money earner for ebay especially seeing as they don't have to offer any of their so called protection policies on that site.
I suspect that they care as much about their "customers" on there as they do on their main site. :cool:

[Tommo1965]

true Andrew..but ebay does have the feedback system..and I personally would never bid for a high end item from anyone with limited or no feedback...i makes me chuckle to see D700 listing on eBay from a new ebayer with no feedback who says local pick up is not a option..and yet people still bid for it ..dunno if paypal protects these dumb bidders ?

[I @ M]

true Andrew..but ebay does have the feedback system..

Steve, have you got an e$ay account?

If you have, me and my 73 "mates" will give you positive feedback. :D

Email addresses and e$ay accounts are pretty easy things to get.:rolleyes:

[rodw]

geez, I really got the conversation OT didn't I? I've been an eBayer for over 10 years and have never been caught out but I am fairly particular who I buy from.

{ please refer to the site rules re advertising items for sale }

[Tommo1965]

Steve, have you got an e$ay account?

If you have, me and my 73 "mates" will give you positive feedback. :D

Email addresses and e$ay accounts are pretty easy things to get.:rolleyes:

LOL..your a cynical man Andrew

I do trawl feedback..looking at the items sold etc...I think if you use your common sense ebay can be very useful...its done quite well up till now !...my D300s sped its way across the nullarbor to its new owner the other night thanks to ebay

[rodw]

Well, in amongst the OT banter, things are progressing slowly in the pre-order stakes:


Late in April we received a shipment that helped satisfy a number of pre-orders, and we are expecting continued shipments throughout the month. In turn, this shipment has moved your order further up the queue.

Exact dates are, as before, difficult to predict. We are however currently working on an expectation that your order will be filled most likely within previous estimates given, we continue to predict receiving your camera in the first half of May

They go on to say they are dependent on Nikon on this. Previously, they had said late April to mid May so it would seem supply is pushing them out to their furthest estimates. I suspect this will be the "new normal". Never mind, I can wait even if it is killing me!

[RRRoger]

[QUOTE=rodw;1016023]geez, I really got the conversation OT didn't I? I've been an eBayer for over 10 years and have never been caught out but I am fairly particular who I buy from.

{ please refer to the site rules re advertising items for sale } QUOTE]

FleeBay buyers are fairly well protected (up to what serves PayPal's interest):lol:
Sellers actually (if you read the fine print) are not protected at all.
I've been severely burned by them and will not accept nor use either.:action:

[Chris G]

Well, in amongst the OT banter, things are progressing slowly in the pre-order stakes:



They go on to say they are dependent on Nikon on this. Previously, they had said late April to mid May so it would seem supply is pushing them out to their furthest estimates. I suspect this will be the "new normal". Never mind, I can wait even if it is killing me!

I'm in the same boat with the same email.. Did C Pro also offer the D800E in 2wks? All I thought was um isn't that when I should be expecting my D800 anyway.. - Mid May LOL!!!

[rodw]

Well, I am almost ready for my D800 to arrive. Today marks the 3 month anniversary since I pre-ordered. Leading up to this momentous occasion, I took my last photo on film which is floating around on this forum somewhere. i've flogged off my F80 film camera on eBay. (it had a partly exposed roll of film in it dating back to Easter 2008 :eek:)

I also took a lens and an 8gb CF card to work this morning and stuck it in my top drawer so I would be able to play with it as soon as I pick it up from CP.

Eventually near the end of the day, it got the better of me and I phoned to Camerapro and apologized for asking but seeing it was such an auspicious occasion and i had been so patient over the last 3 months would they mind having a look and seeing if I had found my way to the top of the queue yet.

So the result of my polite query was that they assured me that I would get my camera in the very next shipment which they were expecting in the next 3-4 days. So hopefully it will be in my hands sometime next week.

They said their deliveries arrived in a pretty random fashion, they never got any advance warning and the shipments were anywhere between 1 and 12. So the waiting continues... :(

[Chris G]

I feel your pain.... :(

[Burnman]

G'day there all -
I too have a D800e on order, chomping at the bit for it to arrive. Nikon on Broadway says 2-3 weeks.. wish it were 2-3 days ;)
Having a spin through the various links on this thread with great interest.
Had my Really Right Stuff tripod (s) arrive in the post this morning - WOW.. terrific gear. But will save them for another thread!
Would love to see some more example D800 photos posted - Cheers

Bernie

[Sar NOP]

Would love to see some more example D800 photos posted - Cheers

Bernie

Taken last night :


200mm, @f/2, 1/80", 5 000 ISO.
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2158/d8c5202resize32.jpg


Crop
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4397/d8c5202crop12mpix.jpg

[I @ M]

Would love to see some more example D800 photos posted - Cheers

Bernie

Taken this morning.

85mm, @f/7.1, 1/160, 100 ISO

Image area set in camera to 5:4 and detail holds up pretty well.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9582534/p45.JPG

Enlarged to 100% and cropped to viewable screen area.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9582534/p45c.JPG

[rodw]

Would love to see some more example D800 photos posted - Cheers

Bernie

Would love to be able to post some ;)

Maybe next week!

[Tommo1965]

SAR

is that straight from the camera ..no noise reduction ?

[Lance B]

Another from the D800 + 85mm f1.4G @ f5

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/image/143099919/original.jpg

Crop
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/image/143248299/original.jpg

[jim]

You can't argue with the amount of detail in that, Lance.

[rodw]

A nice portrait Lance. Awesome detail too!

[Sar NOP]

Great portrait, Lance.
This 85/1.4G is probably the sharpest lens I've ever used. It's even sharper than the 200/2 on the D800 !


Two images taken this evening :


85/1.4G, @f/1.4
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/871/d8c5563resize3.jpg


Crop 100%
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4740/d8c5563crop100.jpg





200/2 VRII, @f/2
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5122/d8c5395resize3.jpg


Crop 100%
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4909/d8c5395crop100.jpg

[rodw]

Don't know if anybody else has been thinking of using their D800 for video, but I decided to get a bit of audio stuff after a fair bit of research.

Zoom H1 recorder and accessory kit $139
HTDZ HT-320A shotgun microphone (eBay) $35
Audiotechnica ATR3350 lavallier microphone (eBay) $30

All up, I spent $205 this afternoon.

The Zoom H1 is the off camera recorder to get unless you buy the more expensive Zoom H4N from all reviews.

There is a longer shotgun mic (HTDZ HT-81A) for about the same money but it is not so good for on camera mounting due to the length. From all accounts these cheap shotgun mics are remarkably good quality and up with some of the Rode's etc so we will see how I get on. There is another smaller Chinese shotgun for about the same money called the SG-108 and apparently it has a lot of background hiss evident.

The ATR3350 seems to be the lavallier microphone that most DSLR video guys use and while I could find it in Oz, it was double the price.

Also on eBay there is a Chinese blimp to cover your shotgun mic for $140 and complete with a boom for $200 that is also very well regarded. The blimp has a removeable extension so you can use it for short and long shotgun mics and includes 2 furry covers for both size options but I did not bother with this as this is only likely to be for home use and I know from prior experience with video cameras that you can't rely on the built in mic as it picks up a lot of camera noise so I used to use a small shotgun mic in the past.

If I decide I want to mount the shotgun mic on my DSLR and find that it needs a shock mount, I think I will just grab a Rode SM3 which you can find for about $50 in Australia. (CameraPro has a listing for it).

If you do try searching eBay for some of this stuff and you can't find it on their .au site, try again on their .com site.

Just so you know, I already have Adobe Premiere 4 for the editing.

If the shotgun mic works out ok, you could build a complete near pro level audio package for your D800 for just over $400 with the blimp and boom based on what I have located.

If you want to know more about this stuff, just hit Google and check out some of the YouTube reviews it throws up. Plenty of examples of these microphones in use.

[Xebadir]

I've actually been doing a fair bit of testing on the video capabilities and thus far I am pretty impressed. Audio wise, I'm actually pretty impressed by the onboard mic, seems to do a reasonable enough job for my needs and will be giving it a detailed test as of this time next week (in harshest environments I can find :P). But thanks for the tips on the potential options, may indulge in that one day if I decide to use it more seriously for this purpose.

[rodw]

John, you better add some furry friends to your audio kit to control wind noise I think. Here's one source
http://www.thewindcutter.com/shop/
But there are others.

[Xebadir]

Thanks for the suggestion Rod, but unfortunately there is no way I can get one shipped to me in time before this trip (leave Sunday, eep!). While they do look interesting, wind noise elimination is not something I tend to worry about alot anyway given being around a tornado or a storm is generally very quiet either - guess you just have to be there to know what I mean.

[MajorPanic]

Well most of the D800 order has arrived! :party7:
....but not the body :( :Doh:

MBD12, ENEL18, battery chamber cover & battery charger

Patience is wearing a bit thin now :action:

[I @ M]

Patience is wearing a bit thin now :action:

Can't be too far away, as of 5 mins ago I know a dealer that has 2 in stock and no buyers -------

[rodw]

Thanks for the suggestion Rod, but unfortunately there is no way I can get one shipped to me in time before this trip (leave Sunday, eep!). While they do look interesting, wind noise elimination is not something I tend to worry about alot anyway given being around a tornado or a storm is generally very quiet either - guess you just have to be there to know what I mean.

Might be a bit late but here are a couple more furry sites for you mate just in case one is where you are heading to.
http://furryheadwindscreens.com/en/
http://www.redheadwindscreens.com/

I suspect that you would be better off with a smaller microphone for a mor compact setup if you ever used your DSLR for video while storm chasing. :D

[Xebadir]

If it was my primary video camera, most certainly. But I tend to rely on my Sony CX150s for that role, whereas the DSLR is mainly going to be for timelapse or capturing things I physically can't with the CX150s. Its going to be interesting getting used to adding it to my routine chase habits. Balancing a laptop, two full frame bodies, directing a dashcam, navigating and operationally nowcasting/radar interpretting is going to be a sight to behold :lol:. I might look into it when I get back.

[rodw]

Finally, 3 months and 5 days after I put my order in I have a D800 sitting on my desk!

I have got a fair bit to learn about it I think. I grabbed a spare battery so one is on charge and I have had time to take a couple of shots in the office but nothing to let me see how sharp it is yet. Low light indoors seems excellent though!

[Chris G]

Finally, 3 months and 5 days after I put my order in I have a D800 sitting on my desk!

I have got a fair bit to learn about it I think. I grabbed a spare battery so one is on charge and I have had time to take a couple of shots in the office but nothing to let me see how sharp it is yet. Low light indoors seems excellent though!

I'm still waiting for some new news from camera pro about mine.. :S

[rodw]

I'm still waiting for some new news from camera pro about mine.. :S

I would have been very upset if you had yours by now given I got in 6 weeks or so before you! :angry0:

Anyway, you are moving up the queue.

CameraPro are opening a retail store this week and have canon in the store on Thursday and Nikon on Friday if anybody lives in Brissy.

I took a few pics last night. Still on JPEG cos I could not work out how to change it. Duh! It has a dedicated button! I was using my 24-85 so I can work out if it is a keeper or not. Still not sure but lighting was not ideal for sharpness but I had a lot of camera I was coming to grips with


Kurilpa bridge in Brissy
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/rodweb/photographs/D800%20samples/Day%201%20%20-%2024-85mm/DSC_0068.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/rodweb/photographs/D800%20samples/Day%201%20%20-%2024-85mm/DSC_0102.jpg

Paul's milk factory
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/rodweb/photographs/D800%20samples/Day%201%20%20-%2024-85mm/DSC_0117.jpg

the pub on the way back to the car.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/rodweb/photographs/D800%20samples/Day%201%20%20-%2024-85mm/DSC_0119.jpg

Today I had a wander round with a 50 mm lens, now that's sharp. I have now got a better Handle on what I am doing so there is hope for me yet. Even managed Raw!

[Redgum]

Rod, they're all very soft and the dynamics low which could be caused by the high ISO used in a number of them. The ones with the high ISO and high shutter speed could be off-set by using a smaller "f" stop. Worth a try.

[rodw]

Rod, they're all very soft and the dynamics low which could be caused by the high ISO used in a number of them. The ones with the high ISO and high shutter speed could be off-set by using a smaller "f" stop. Worth a try.

Thanks Redgum. Yes I know they are not ideal and agree with you. I have done a bit of processing so may have lost some detail from the jpegs as I may have overworked the blacks and shadows and reduced range. I had troubles getting my head around a lot of things like focus points and focus methods and the like and the ISO had to be fairly high. I'm sure it is not technique as some of them were from a rest.

I am still not sure if the lens is part of the problem which is what I want to find out. I've had it for 7 years or so and it needs a service and clean if I keep it but if it is not up to the task, I will flog it on ebay. I took this lens to work and had it sitting in my drawer as I dont really use it on DX so it just sat there with an older CF card until I got the call to pick up my body..

Anyway, a few things fell into place last night while I was playing with settings.

Today, I had a go with a 50mm F1.4 lens near noon and in bright light, they are sharp and soe of the colour was fantastic. I was a lot more conscious of shutter and aperture and adjusted ISO to keep things around F8. My plan is to try a different lens every day for a while. Hopefuly, I will find a couple worth sharing when I find some time later tonight. I will say it was reay nice to take a few pics with a 50mm lens on an FX camera again!

[Burnman]

Fantastic sample images gents - many thanks for posting!
Even better news to hear D800 stock is arriving!
Video wise, I have been going a bit crazy on the ebay front playing with all sorts of devices specific to DSLR video.

Please reread the site rules regarding linking to products as a new member.

Cheers

[Sar NOP]

I'm still amazed by its AF speed and accuracy as well as its high ISO performances :


1000mm, f/8, 1/500", 4 000 ISO, monopod.
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9097/d8c8036resize3.jpg



Crop 100%
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6290/d8c8036crop100.jpg

[Lance B]

Absolutely amazing shot, Sar!!

People have to remember why this is so amazing as this is a 600mm lens with a 1.7x TC on a monpod and ISO4000! Not something that could have been done with such ease, and with such amazing detail and accuracy, with any other camera, IMO.

[Xebadir]

Incredibly impressed with my road test of the D800 so far, have put a couple of hundred shots on the clock now, and the colouration, clarity, sharpness and overall detail is a completely new world in storm photography. A bunch of test shots can be found on the hunters of thunder blog (click in my signature), haven't had a chance to uplaod them seperately for here yet. In particular, the lightning performance is the best I have seen out of a digital camera...its incredible. The LCD previews are also very impressive in the colour and tone. Will keep you updated as I test further.

[AutumnCurl]

Has anyone used a Nikon AF-S 28-300mm IF ED VR, with the d800? would love to see an example.

[Sar NOP]

Has anyone used a Nikon AF-S 28-300mm IF ED VR, with the d800? would love to see an example.
Have a look at Brad Hill's opinion on this lens, with image samples : http://www.naturalart.ca/artist/fieldtests/fieldtest_NikonD800.html

[AutumnCurl]

Thanks that was useful :)

I had a couple of people advise me to get the 28-300mm as i only have 105mm and 50mm FX lens, however i am almost 100% certain that the lens i buy with the D800 will be a 24-70mm. As my focus is people and i want the non fixed ability. Still want a 85mm and 70-200mm though :P

[AutumnCurl]

I have ordered mine from camerpro in brisbane, $3425 - 2 year nikon AUS warranty.

I think this is reasonable if you look at what shipping costs and added warranty would be.

I have also found the customer service very good :)

[rodw]

Thanks that was useful :)

I had a couple of people advise me to get the 28-300mm as i only have 105mm and 50mm FX lens, however i am almost 100% certain that the lens i buy with the D800 will be a 24-70mm. As my focus is people and i want the non fixed ability. Still want a 85mm and 70-200mm though :P

If you can afford the 24-70, I don't think you can go wrong. I have an older 24-85 which was regarded as a very sharp lens in its day but honestly, while it is nice on the D800 and I will use happily use it, it is left behind by the sharpness of my 17-35 and 70-200 so one day I'll sell it on for the 24-70. That being said, once you actually print a photo from the lens, it is still pretty good and pixel peeping adds no value.

As others have said, the colors, exposure and dynamic range continue to be a source of amazement.

I've had a little bit of a play with videos and audio to go with it. I think we have a bit of catching up to do in understanding audio in comparison to the Canon users who have had e chance to dabble in video for a while. I'm not quite ready to share my findings yet, still got a bit more to do but i am certain that if you are going to use an external microphone, you must set the audio levels manually to minimize hiss.

[AutumnCurl]

I have great faith in the d800/ 24-70mm combo :)

The waiting is killing me :) my hubby says all i do is look at pictures of the camera and camera equipment!

Has anyone looked into getting a d800 book? (other than the manual!) They are just starting to come out, and i found it really helpful when i first got my d5000.

[Chris G]

Thank you very much for purchasing from CameraPro.
Your NIKON D800 Body Only Pre Order has been dispatched via Startrack Express!

And here I was thinking Christmas atleast lol..

[rodw]

Thank you very much for purchasing from CameraPro.
Your NIKON D800 Body Only Pre Order has been dispatched via Startrack Express!

And here I was thinking Christmas atleast lol..

Happy days :)

If what they told me a few days before you ordered is correct, then over 200 have gone out the Camerapro door which means that really useful quantities are becoming available now so waiting lists must be getting under control.

[Chris G]

soooo D800 got here this morning WOOHOO..

But I have a problem, she wont take any shots and is completely locked up in P mode, I can't change the mode from P with a contant eRR flashing everytime I press the shutter button.. It sounds like the mirror is working but when I had a look to see what it was doing, it was doing nothing but making a sound of the shutter firing off?.. I've made sure my lens/es are set to max aperture ect and honestly starting to think I have lemon.. If anyone can share some light on this I would be greatly appreciated

One worried D800 owner...

[I @ M]

Chris, first thing to do is to format the card/s that you are using in the camera.

Do it by the menu instead of the double button press.

[I @ M]

Ok, now that you have edited your post we have a new "first" thing to do and that is to stop flapping your arms wildly and to follow some straight forward steps.

#1 Remove the battery. If it isn't fully charged, put it on the charger till it is.
#2 Download the new firmware from Nikon as per this post (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?105325-D800-firmware-update&p=1026269#post1026269).
#3 When the battery is charged, format a CF card in the camera.
#4 Load your newly downloaded firmware to that CF card.
#5 Update the camera firmware from the camera menu.

Detailed "how to" instructions are here (http://nikonasia-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7176).

[Chris G]

After all that, didn't work and Im getting the same result stuck on P mode with Err flashing even on start up without a lens.. Firmware is now 1.01

Update: After getting off the phone with Nikon Aust. they have told to me to return it to camera pro with likely of not getting a new for bugger knows how long or to return it to them in sydney and hopfully they can do it in a couple of days lol..

Seriously one P%%@%@% off customer

[MajorPanic]

On the whole pretty happy with the D800. It's a couple of zoom lenses that seem to be unsharp but on the D700 they are razor :confused013

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/MalenyStars-7.jpg

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/MalenyStars-8.jpg

[Tommo1965]

Chris

Do you have another battery you can try..i had a issue with my d700 a few days ago that sounds simialr..mine turned out to be a corrupt battery

[rodw]

After all that, didn't work and Im getting the same result stuck on P mode with Err flashing even on start up without a lens.. Firmware is now 1.01

Update: After getting off the phone with Nikon Aust. they have told to me to return it to camera pro with likely of not getting a new for bugger knows how long or to return it to them in sydney and hopfully they can do it in a couple of days lol..

Seriously one P%%@%@% off customer

Really bad luck Chris. Hope you get it sorted out promptly.

[Chris G]

Do you have another battery you can try..i had a issue with my d700 a few days ago that sounds similar..mine turned out to be a corrupt battery

I did the next day, the 2 I ordered from Ted's in Sydney lol. Anyway, diffidently wasn't a battery problem as there was something mechanically wrong with it. I ended up shipping it back to Nikon Aust in Sydney as Steve from Nikon support gave me 2 choice's. I took the most logical and hopefully less frustrating one then compared to sending it back to Camera Pro in QLD and not seeing it for maybe another month or more until naturally there was stock for a replacement.

It basicly came down to that Nikon Aust or Camera Pro tech heads had no idea what was wrong with the D800 and infact I'm still waiting for a reply from Camera Pro about it all as they needed to contact their Nikon Rep.. Oo

Steve from Nikon Aust after ringing up the second time asking if it was possible to ship the D800 to them which he said 99% of item end up being shipped, told me to write on a piece of paper stating his name and that he gives authorisation for a fast return rate and put it down as a high priority item. I must say I was pretty happy that he did that for me giving I had only received the cam 3hrs before hand.

What can say, I ended up with $4,000 lemon :rolleyes:

[Wayne]

I haven't shot too many files yet, and still need to do some more thorough testing once home, but so far I am pretty happy with mine, no left/right focus point issue at this stage, no lock-ups, no blurry viewfinder.

I am still thinking I would be very lucky not to have the focus point OOF issue, so will not get too excited until I have had a solid test session.

[Lance B]

On the whole pretty happy with the D800. It's a couple of zoom lenses that seem to be unsharp but on the D700 they are razor :confused013

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/MalenyStars-7.jpg

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/MalenyStars-8.jpg

Beautiful shots, MP.

[Burnman]

Wheeeee - D800e has arrived at Nikon On Broadway! Time to zoot up to Sydney to collect tomorrow! :party7:

[AutumnCurl]

Hi, still on the waiting band wagon :)

I was told the other day that the d800 will currently not work with "pocket wizard" wireless triggers etc... is this true? and is there any other things you have come across that haven't worked?

My understanding is that its software related and will be fixed, but again not 100%

[ricktas]

Hi, still on the waiting band wagon :)

I was told the other day that the d800 will currently not work with "pocket wizard" wireless triggers etc... is this true? and is there any other things you have come across that haven't worked?

My understanding is that its software related and will be fixed, but again not 100%

Who-ever is telling you this information, should no longer be a source of information for you. Pocket Wizards do work on the D800. The hotshoe and flash system on the D800 is no different to that on other Nikon models. SOME models of Pocket Wizards need a firmware upgrade to work with all the newer cameras (not just Nikons). The relates specifically to : PocketWizard MiniTT1 and FlexTT5 as well as the new Sekonic RT-32CTL module. All other PW's should work just fine. The firmware for these devices (to be installed on the device, not the camera), is available HERE (http://www.pocketwizard.com/support/downloads/beta)

[AutumnCurl]

well it was in the shop, and they wouldn't sell me one as they said it wouldn't work, as i said i thought it was a software thing and that it would be resolved :)

[WieseVisuals]

The D800 is on my Christmas list ;)

[ricktas]

Thanks for the link. FYI - I just tried to check out your web site. Two things you might want to check. I couldn't view the Gallery on my iPad (drop down menu won't work) and the DVD/Blog link is currently broken giving a page not found error.

This thread has 394 replies, which one are you commenting on?

EDIT: You have edited your post, so my reply above quoted it, before you edited.

[I @ M]

well it was in the shop, and they wouldn't sell me one as they said it wouldn't work, as i said i thought it was a software thing and that it would be resolved :)

I would suggest a different "shop", maybe one with people that have some idea about what they are talking about. Success rate so far with pocket wizards on the D800 = 100% and nope, haven't even updated the firmware to cater for the later model over the D700.

[Xebadir]

Hey Guys,
Just got back from the states so am going to be looking at putting together a review of my thoughts on the D800. Still familiarising myself with the nuances, but after 2 weeks hard usage I can say I am pretty damn impressed, on all accounts. Season wasn't quite as active as I had hoped (of course until I had arrived home it wasn't), but still put about 1500 decents shots on the clock so have a fair impression. Will put it up this weekend.

[Burnman]

Well have been madly pressing the shutter on my D800E and I'm VERY impressed! wow and wow. It is by all counts the most impressive camera I have EVER used or had the pleasure of viewing the output from.
Detail is staggering, file sizes are no where near as crippling as made out online (typically 8-9mb JPG - yes I shot JPG on an E - sacraligeous!). I cannot compare it to a straight D800 - but these photos essentially don't need sharpening. Its intensely crisp, but obviously dependent on the lens and focus.
I snapped a few shots looking over Goulburn last night on the way back (10pm - moon was not quite up) and shots looked almost black in camera. Load into Lightroom and press AUTO - boom! Photos punch up with incredible clarity almost like daylight! Low light capability is staggering. At 100% image shows some noise, but just halve the image size (to 18mp) and noise is almost non existent. A truly impressive bit of kit that has a vast array of functions and capabilities. HIGHLY recommended. I would post some piks - but I'm not allowed as a noobie ;)
Cheers

[I @ M]

file sizes are no where near as crippling as made out online (typically 8-9mb JPG - yes I shot JPG on an E - sacraligeous!).

What size jpeg are you photographing at? Typical file size for large fine from the D800 is around the 20mb mark.



I would post some piks - but I'm not allowed as a noobie

Please do post some images in the appropriate forum, you may post images as soon as you join and have made one post, the only restriction on new members is in the gallery section.

[Burnman]

I used Large FX - Norm mode for most of them. Night shots in RAW obviously.

Will try an image:

- - - Updated - - -

Sweet! Works.. Thanks for the heads up ;) Can post a few more now. Here is a 100% crop from above image - nothing exciting mind - just me snapping around the park with it. Lens BTW is the Nikon 85 1.4
89894

[ricktas]

Note: This thread is not in the critique forums. Photos posted should be demonstrating something about the features or abilities of the D800/D800e. Any further posting of photos that do not discuss the camera or features will be removed

[WieseVisuals]

This thread has 394 replies, which one are you commenting on?

EDIT: You have edited your post, so my reply above quoted it, before you edited.

Sorry was trying to respond to Xebadir Storm Chaser (John). Eg broken link is:
http://www.emanatephotography.com/blogs.html

[Chris G]

Hey hey,, So finally got my D800 back and it's all in working except for this.. lol

Still getting a ERR. seems I was in M and shutter speed too low so I turned it off. Mirror was stuck up and would not come down until I pushed shutter release.

Anyone else getting this? Only happens when with low shutter :S

[mojododo]

:( still waiting for my d800.... so not fun watching all the images coming through with the people who have theirs...

[I @ M]

Hey hey,, So finally got my D800 back and it's all in working except for this.. lol

Still getting a ERR. seems I was in M and shutter speed too low so I turned it off. Mirror was stuck up and would not come down until I pushed shutter release.

Anyone else getting this? Only happens when with low shutter :S

Chris, can you detail The EXACT steps that you are doing when this happens. When I say exact I mean from the minute that you pick up the camera. Please list them in point form ----

#1. Pick up camera.
#2 Turn camera on.
#3 ???
#4 ???

and so on.

[MajorPanic]

I'm stunned at the high ISO qualities of the D800, it makes the D700 look pretty poor in comparison.

All hand held.

Shot using Auto-ISO @ 3200 ISO 24-70mm lens

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/Tigers_BB/Tigers-1.jpg

1800 ISO 24-70mm lens

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/Tigers_BB/Tigers-2.jpg

1100 ISO 300mm lens

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/Tigers_BB/Tigers-3.jpg

[Chris G]

Chris, can you detail The EXACT steps that you are doing when this happens. When I say exact I mean from the minute that you pick up the camera. Please list them in point form ----

#1. Pick up camera.
#2 Turn camera on.
#3 ?????????????
#4 ?????????????
and so on.

#3 - I can switch to either manual or aperture mode and giving that I stay within the 1/60s or above its fine to which I can say it has no diff what ISO or Aperture you select. If I drop below the 1/60s thats when the ERR on screen occurs and lock up is essential for whatever reason..

#4 - Giving the above statement, the only way that it is fixed is from pressing the shutter button fully down as if you were taking a shot, once again with the ERR displayed on screen to free the camera from lock up and to start shooting once again.

I"ve only just got the cam back after spending 2wks at Nikon Sydney after having a melt down with it straight off the bat of receiving the camera .. But now its mmm same thing but can be corrected with a press of button???? Seriously do you think I should be still flapping my arms about? lol :P Kidding of course :)

Also I believe needed proof was in order lol :P

Sigma 70-200mm @ f/2.8
http://s17.postimage.org/n1miia9jz/Leaf_Love_bokeh_fb.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Sigma 105mm (used inbuilt flash @1/4th)
http://s18.postimage.org/ihbd0lnll/Jumping_spider_FB.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/pkj8g7t11/full/)

[I @ M]

Chris, you are missing the other #3 - #222 steps that are going to tell what is happening here. Without having the camera to play with it is hard to see what is happening and detailing the settings are the best way to diagnose over the 'net.
For instance, what is your minimum shutter speed set to when using a flash? Are you using live view? What are your focus settings, AF-S or AF-C? Is your shutter activation set to focus or release?
Have you tried a Nikon lens on the camera?

You may find that Nikon service will tell you that you are using an incompatible product with the camera if you say things like Sigma and to consult the Sigma distributors for a fix.

There is obviously something strange going on but at the moment there are just too many variables that are unknown to diagnose instantly.
Maybe someone else has an idea but nothing jumps out at me at the moment. :confused013

[Tommo1965]

Chris

sounds like you need a replacement camera mate...IMO having the issues your experiencing on a new body should make it a no brainer

[I @ M]

Chris, another thought.

I had an ERR symbol come up very soon after we got our bodies.
It happened when I tried to take a photo on a card that contained images from another body.
I formatted that card in camera and all was OK.
Is your card on the "approved" Nikon list.
Are you using two cards in the camera?
What are the settings in the menu for those cards?

[Chris G]

From what I have seen It doesn't matter if I'm using AF-S/ C - 3D - 51 -25- 8- 5..
memory card is the only have the one, brand new never used before Scan disk 34Gb 30mb/s CF card in saying that, clearly its approved. And yes I formatted it in the camera before use :th3:

Lenes on the other hand, I don't own one Nikon lens. You could debate that the Sigma lenses is the cause but I have 3 + a old 1970 50mm prime that works very nicely with the body giving thats it for a Pentax K mount.

Lets consider ISO and F/stop, I can go from 50-80 Lo 1 right through to 6400 on any F stop without a hint of trouble..

Off camera flash I need to test out as my batteries were flat yesterday hence using inbuilt on the above image.

Again what does that leave me with other than what I'm trying to explain, oh.. Also it will happen in S, Q & Timer (as of last night doing night shots) I'll test out burst mode this arvo.

Anyway, like I've said... 1/60s and lower it locks up with ERR displayed and all I need to do is press the shutter again to free it..

Starting to go with Tommo here though, replacement needed.. I mean straight off the bat it had to go to Nikon for repairs and 2wks later after getting back on Thursday just gone I'm still getting errors.. :(

Don't get me wrong, I can live with it maybe lol.. But honestly it has dented my trust with Nikon to produce quality gear.

[Redgum]

I agree with I&M. Borrow any sort of recent Nikon lens, fit it to your D800 and reboot. Almost guarantee your problem will go away. ERR messages with foreign lens (particularly older ones) are almost as common as measles. Ask anyone that's had a Tokina. And the problem is prevalent with low light.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm stunned at the high ISO qualities of the D800, it makes the D700 look pretty poor in comparison.

All hand held.

Shot using Auto-ISO @ 3200 ISO 24-70mm lens

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/Tigers_BB/Tigers-1.jpg

1800 ISO 24-70mm lens

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/Tigers_BB/Tigers-2.jpg

1100 ISO 300mm lens

http://pix.majorpanic.com/images/BB/Tigers_BB/Tigers-3.jpg

The digital enhancement with the D800 is so stark it's not pretty anymore. I sent mine back after Peru. Pixel overkill.

[I @ M]

I agree with I&M. Borrow any sort of recent Nikon lens, fit it to your D800 and reboot. Almost guarantee your problem will go away. ERR messages with foreign lens (particularly older ones) are almost as common as measles. Ask anyone that's had a Tokina. And the problem is prevalent with low light.

- - - Updated - - -



The digital enhancement with the D800 is so stark it's not pretty anymore. I sent mine back after Peru. Pixel overkill.

I would not be so forward to say that you almost gaurentee it will cure it redgum, I am using a much much older 70-200 Sigma than Chris and it does not play up at all, in fact no Sigma lenses, nor Tamron nor Tokina are causing any grief with that body.

I merely suggested fitting a Nikkor and not using a Sigma lens to highlight the prob to Nikon so that they can't offer the 3rd party incompatibility story to him.

I really don't understand you feelings on the pixel overkill statement, I reckon you are in the vast minority of users (and viewers) with that body to feel that way. So far from what I have seen, all the complaints about image quality ( either too much or too little ) have easily been found to be the fault of the operator. :rolleyes:

[arthurking83]

......You could debate that the Sigma lenses is the cause but I have 3 + a old 1970 50mm prime that works very nicely with the body giving thats it for a Pentax K mount.

.....

So are you saying that the old 50mm lens is allowing the camera to work fine?.. as in no lockups at all??

Is this err issue confined to any one lens?

Obviously lower than 1/60s is referring to shutter speeds 1/50s, 1/40s .. etc .. lower = slower(just to clarify).

Have you tried a two button reset yet? and which firmware does the camera have.

The best lens to use to determine if there is any camera to lens issue is the manual lens.
Removing the lens's electronic connection is a better way to diagnose a camera issue, rather than adding any Nikon specific lens(unless it's also an old manual lens) anyhow.

The D800 is able to have manual camera presets entered into it's memory bank.
Do this and mount the 50mm(even if you don't mount it, it makes no difference!!)

Set the camera to only [A] aperture priority or [M] manual only.

Does this help in any way?

If not, then the issue has nothing to do with any lens(es).

Very strange that the ERR is shutter speed dependent. Sounds like a metering issue or something like that.

If it were my issue, I'd be inclined to do a reset of the camera -> update to the current firmware(if not already) -> set at least one manual lens in the memory bank and whether you mount the lens or not is of no consequence other than for testing.
I'd do it in that order, but only because, two button resets are generally not a bad thing unless you have many customised settings already set in the camera.
Latest firmware is generally a good thing to have unless there is a feature that you really don't want or need.
Manual lenses don't lock up the cameras electronics.

Note tho that there could also be an aperture level mechanism issue that could also cause the camera to play up.
Mounting the old manual lens may no show this up as it sounds like a non coupled lens type(being Pentax mount). The aperture controlling systems are incompatible and so if there was some thing wrong with the camera's aperture mechanisms or systems, then mounting a non coupled lens will not show this up.
Still a good thing to try if you have the appropriate lens to camera adapter.

Anyhow, hopefully the issue is simple and quickly sorted out for 'ya Chris.

- - - Updated - - -


......



The digital enhancement with the D800 is so stark it's not pretty anymore. I sent mine back after Peru. Pixel overkill.

I had to laugh when Andrew highlighted this point.

If it's pixel overkill, then why order it in the first place.

It was obviously going to be a 36Mp camera when you got it ... just as they announced in the marketing blurb!!

[rodw]

Chris, I think you should be requesting a new camera. Technically, this should be done back through the dealer who are obliged to assist you. I would contact CameraPro and speak to Jesse (I think he is the owner) and explain your situation. The product was DOA, you have given Nikon the opportunity to fix it as required under the Trade Practices Act and it is still defective. Explain to the dealer that you expect the camera to be replaced with a new unit from the next available shipment that hits Nikon's Aussie warehouse as it is not of merchantable quality and fit for the purposes for which it was intended. Be nice but stand firm on your rights! Explain to CameraPro that even though you have dealt directly with Nikon, you are obligated to take the matter to them when seeking remedy under the Act and that it is your intention to enforce your rights through the appropriate channels. If necessary, put this down in writing to CameraPro and give them 7 days written notice to resolve the matter.

I think you will get looked after.

[Chris G]

So are you saying that the old 50mm lens is allowing the camera to work fine?.. as in no lockups at all??

Is this err issue confined to any one lens?

Obviously lower than 1/60s is referring to shutter speeds 1/50s, 1/40s .. etc .. lower = slower(just to clarify).

Have you tried a two button reset yet? and which firmware does the camera have.

The best lens to use to determine if there is any camera to lens issue is the manual lens.
Removing the lens's electronic connection is a better way to diagnose a camera issue, rather than adding any Nikon specific lens(unless it's also an old manual lens) anyhow.

The D800 is able to have manual camera presets entered into it's memory bank.
Do this and mount the 50mm(even if you don't mount it, it makes no difference!!)

Set the camera to only [A] aperture priority or [M] manual only.

Does this help in any way?

If not, then the issue has nothing to do with any lens(es).

Very strange that the ERR is shutter speed dependent. Sounds like a metering issue or something like that.

If it were my issue, I'd be inclined to do a reset of the camera -> update to the current firmware(if not already) -> set at least one manual lens in the memory bank and whether you mount the lens or not is of no consequence other than for testing.
I'd do it in that order, but only because, two button resets are generally not a bad thing unless you have many customised settings already set in the camera.
Latest firmware is generally a good thing to have unless there is a feature that you really don't want or need.
Manual lenses don't lock up the cameras electronics.

Note tho that there could also be an aperture level mechanism issue that could also cause the camera to play up.
Mounting the old manual lens may no show this up as it sounds like a non coupled lens type(being Pentax mount). The aperture controlling systems are incompatible and so if there was some thing wrong with the camera's aperture mechanisms or systems, then mounting a non coupled lens will not show this up.
Still a good thing to try if you have the appropriate lens to camera adapter.

Anyhow, hopefully the issue is simple and quickly sorted out for 'ya Chris.

- - - Updated - - -



I had to laugh when Andrew highlighted this point.

If it's pixel overkill, then why order it in the first place.

It was obviously going to be a 36Mp camera when you got it ... just as they announced in the marketing blurb!!

Ok Bare with me as I try to remember everything I've tested lol..

I'm referring to the shutter speed of 1/60th of a sec and slower with ALL my sigma lenses. 70-200mm APO HMS II, 10-20mm HMS F/4, 105mm F/2.8 Macro (Original Version?), 24-70mm F/2.8 (Original version?)

All of which happen in A and M mode during the tests with Spot, Matrix, Average metering.. Using AF or Manual on the lenses... Under E menu for Flash / bracketing change the flash Sync and flash shutter speeds around on various settings with no change.

Getting back the non CPU 50mm Pentax lens.. No errors, I'll even take that further and say its fine without a lens also. I can shoot 1/10th of a sec or slower with a any lock ups..

The firmware is updated as I did it the first day I received when I had to ship it off to Nikon that very same day for a complete look over due to having the ERR from the get go.

Despite all this even with the ERR I get, the camera still takes a photo like there is nothing wrong? and you wouldn't know until you have to take another shot if by chance you didn't look the LCD or view finder ect.

Camera Pro and I'm sorry if anyone here works them but after waiting a week, yes a whole week when I contact them about the faulty camera asking what could be done. I was told to send a email to support/tech explaining my problem. All good, about an hour later I get email saying basicly they were trying to get in contact with their Nikon rep and ask him on the matter. Even though I had already done this and the Nikon dude gave me 2 options. Sooo back to the point.. I waited a whole week for camera pro to say yep send it in for DOA.. I was not happy and they did get a not so happy customer email put in the nicest possible way lol. I mean without swearing my head off..

[fatrider]

I am reserving my thoughts until I get more use with my D800. I am off for two weeks through QLD on holidays and I am taking my Pelican case with all my lenses to give it a good workout. I am really interested to see how it goes on my 600mm.

[AutumnCurl]

have you tried this:
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/05/03/nikon-acknowledges-the-d4d800-lockup-issue-offers-temporary-fix.aspx/

probably won't help but you never know.

From my reading it seems that people with serial numbers starting 8003 are ok but around 8005 it goes a bit down hill? but it could just be coincidence.
if your serial start similar to Mongos? as mongo has autofocus problems - this issue also seems to be lens varied - meaning its ok on some but not on others.

I'm really scared to get mine now :/