Noob Purchase.. Canon or Nikon?

[bellamy83]

Hi.. I am completely new to the field of DSLR and was thinking of purchasing a Canon 60D so I don't have to upgrade the body in the future rather than going for an older/easier to use perhaps model? I have been doing some internet research today and came across the Nikon D7000 which seems pretty good too... I was a bit turned off by the 60D due to the raves about the video camera (as this is a function I will never probably use) and the Nikon appeared better for still shots?
Anyways any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Bell =)

[Kym]

:gday: & Welcome
- when you get your camera, lets see some photos in the main CC forums (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?5) and have fun! Maybe try a competition or 2.


As a Pentax shooter, get the D7000 -- it has best APS-C sensor!! (The same as the Pentax K-5)

Maybe have a look at the New to Photography (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showlibrary.php?title=Books:New_To_Photography_Book) book and the Learning Plan in the book.

Specifically check the New to Photography (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showlibrary.php?title=Books:New_To_Photography_Book) book and equipment guide before purchasing - lots of good advice.

[etherial]

Hi Welcome to the forum. My advice would be to get hands on with the cameras, they are quite different to handle and one or the other might simply gel with you. They are all pretty much good quality these days so find something that you are comfortable with. Don't let the video feature turn you away, sure you might not use it but it certainly doesn't mean the camera isn't as good for stills. The 60D is a great camera.

Also consider your budget, when choosing a brand remember you are buying into an ecosystem of lenses, flashes etc, so a cheap body might cost you more in the long run to match it with the lenses you need.

[ricktas]

Camera Bodies are disposable items. They have a limited life. The 60D has a shutter rating of 100,000 accuations. The D7000 has a 150,000 accuation life expectancy. Shutter assemblies can be replaced, but by then the cost of replacing it will probably be more than a 7D or a D3 second hand.

So get good quality lenses (these will last you a lifetime) and buy the camera body you want now, in the knowledge that you will need to replace it at some stage in the future

[strictfunctor]

Feel them in your hands.

Do you have something specific you want to shoot, such that the choice of available lenses (and what they cost!) makes a difference?

Do you have friends with lenses or flashes you could borrow or ask for help, go with them.

And does it really have to be a DSLR? There are a lot of other choices with big sensors now.

[bellamy83]

I would really like a DSLR.. but am open for options... I have horses, so would love some action shots... also family stuff, landscapes.. ?

[strictfunctor]

If you want good stills of moving horses, yes a DSLR.

In Canon and Nikon, what makes them good for this makes them bad at video of the same subject. Sony translucent mirror bodies would be the best compromise for both.

[bellamy83]

Don't want video really, just stills.. Thanx for the feedback guys.. still stuck on the Nikon D7000

[Mat]

The D7000 has a greater dynamic range.

[arthurking83]

Much of a muchness as they say.
I think D7000 is slightly better at this level, but I also admit that the video function is something I'd use regularly too!
But I want better video.

Anyhow.. don't discount the gear due to some feature you won't ever use ... you are not obliged to use it, and every current DSLR except the D700(and the odd oddball obscure camera too) has video now, so whether you like it or not you're going to get video anyhow.

I agree about the Sony SLT type cameras. They seem to have a lot going for them, but be aware of the caveats with the high performance figures Sony is quoting.

A77 should last a while as a camera with interesting specs, that is before an updated version with some new ultra uber spec that is a must have.

I got to tell you, that I'd have been happy with a Nikon D700(no video) if not for the simple fact that I want video. Otherwise I'd have got one about a year ago.

it depends on your shooting needs. But if I were in your situation(and video is definitely a feature not wanted) I'd go with a D700. Expensive for sure by comparison, but ultimately a better option if growth into the hobby is something you expect to do.

As other have said and will continue to say for ever and a day ... the lenses you choose will have a greater bearing in your photography life.

[NikonNellie]

I just love, love , love my D7000. It feels good in my tiny hands, handles high ISO well with little noise, fast Auto focusing, great colour.

[Oritah]

I photograph horses, and I have a Nikon D3100 - and love it.

I am sure that the Cannon would do a similar job, but I preferred the feel of the Nikon and liked the video feature.

Be sure to get a high speed card, because you will need on if you want action shots like this :D

84287

Or stills like this

84288

[dragons girl]

You definatly need to go too the shops and feel which ever ones you are tossing up between !! It should help you make up your mind :)

[Mark L]

You definatly need to go too the shops and feel which ever ones you are tossing up between !! It should help you make up your mind :)
As others have also said, this is correct. You'll take better photos with something that's comfortable in your hands.
Also depends what your budget allows you to afford.
BTW I'm happy with my 60D and wouldn't have a clue how to use video mode. That's not what you're paying for and not what I bought it for.
So, Canon or Nikon? They're both good. Just be happy with what you decide, then you'll be happy. :)

[Puzz1e]

I personally think the 'see it feels in ur hands' recommendation is not that important. Both Canon and Nikon are shaped similarly. Some of the ergonomics are different but really they don't become apparent until you have shot with both systems for a while.

I was going through this decision early last year and went with the Nikon d7000. I would say it is the best non full frame DSLR. I'm not a Nikon 'fanboy' (in fact I posted recently about possibly switching to Canon) but honestly if you compare like for like - Nikon trumps every Canon in the same price range. The only exception is probably the 5d mark II - which is again bested by the d700 for stills - but I'd awesome for video.

Get the d7000. You won't be disappointed! Just remember that you are buying into a system. It is really all about the lenses. Camera bodies will come and go...but lenses will stay with you for ages. Don't spend huge chunks of your budget on a body without considering lenses. If you are going to stick with DX bodies over time...then the lenses also become cheaper. A big plus of the d7000 is that it has an internal focusing motor...so you can use some of the great (and still cheap) glass which is not APS.

[arthurking83]

To elaborate on Puzz1e's last word .. APS should be AF-S. And theyr'e right. The cheaper Nikon bodies don't have an internal focus motor in them and the D7000 does. And there are many great non AFS type lenses that won't auto focus on these cheaper motorless cameras, but will on the D7000.
ALSO, with the D7000 it allows you the ability to set older manual type lens info into the camera's system which then allows you to use auto exposure modes with these lenses.
if you are into the gear as much as the hobby itself, then this can be a boon!

Also don't discount Pentax(great value for money) as a viable option.

[Lance B]

One of the most important aspects is to try them all out and see which sytem is easiest to use to you and will therefore mean it is easier for you to do so and therefore you will enjoy the experience and want to use the camera. If you find that the camera is difficult to use, then you are less inclind to want to use it or, that you will miss shots because you find the way to use it too difficult and therefore miss important shots.

Even though I shoot Nikon and love the system, do not dismiss Pentax as they have some very inuitive cameras which have excellent ergonomics, functionality an there are some lovely lenses, too. I am not a Canon fan, not that there is anything wrong with Canon, it's just that I find them difficult and not intuitive to use for me. However, many people love the Canon system and wouldn't use anything else. It's all a matter of what suits you best, so, go try them all out and talk to the salesman and see which you find the best to use and what feels best in your hands.

[mechawombat]

As someone who is switching to the D7000 from Sony, it is interesting to read all the different POV's

Personally I would go Nikon. I have gorilla hands and I found the D7000 comfortable whilst playing with it for an hour today.

However do not discount the Pentax as it is a strong contender, in body stability vs Nikon in lens VR, Every K mount lens can be used on their DSLR bodies and they do share the same sensor.

But the gear is only a small percentage of what makes a great pic
Now I just have to wait til Feb to get my hands on my D7000 and start my journey learning the new system.

[ricktas]

The other thing to remember is that photos are 90% photographer. You can buy a point and shoot or spend $10K on a camera. It does not take better photos. Don't get to hung up on which camera, they all do the same basic stuff, and any of the current models, from any of the major brands is quite capable of capturing a scene. What is needed is a person behind that camera who knows what they are doing.

Anyone who says buy Nikon, cause its better than Canon, or buy Canon cause its better than Pentax, or buy Pentax cause its better than Sony..doesn't know shite!

[ricktas]

I personally think the 'see it feels in ur hands' recommendation is not that important. Both Canon and Nikon are shaped similarly. Some of the ergonomics are different but really they don't become apparent until you have shot with both systems for a while.


I think that depends on hand size and shape. I have Canon SLR's (all manual focus lenses, so I had no real need to stay with a brand, due to lens acquisition in the past) and Nikon DSLR's. When I went digital, I decided to explore both. I found the Canon DSLR range just did not feel instantly comfortable in my hands, where the Nikon's did. i tried a range of models across both brands. In the end, there was little difference in price and feature set, so I went with Nikon.

Ergonomics are a funny thing, what feels good for one body-shape, does not for another.

But deciding on ergonomics alone, is not really a good choice either, its about the whole package. We don't buy a new car just cause the steering wheel feels good.

[etherial]

When I talk about what feels good for you, I mean not only the physical ergonomics but the controls and how easily you learn them. (not starting a C vs N war...) I find that for me the Canon gear is more logical, it is easy to learn, the viewfinder and LCD are well laid out and easy to read and I quite like the menu system. For some reason, every Nikon I picked up just didn't click with me (pun intended :p).

[tassam380]

I was in much the same boat a couple of months ago. With the 60D and the D5100. I went with the 60D simply because it felt better in my hands. The Nikon shape just wasn't right for me. Whichever DSLR You get, as long as you have the basic skills, will take amazing photos.

[KeeFy]

I secretly wish that all the camera brands will band together and come out with the utlimate dslr range. There are little bits that i like from each manufactuer and little bits i hate about each as well.

Still dreaming arn't i?

If you intend to buy 2nd hand lenses, sorry to say but the market is dominated by canon and followed closely by nikon. Take a look at your local gumtree and it'll be easier to pick up a 2nd hand canon lens vs a nikon or pentax or whatsover. I'm just stating the facts. Maybe nikon owners are less fickle minded vs canon owners! :P

Also i've read/head this said a few times different ways but the general gist is this: "I've paid a few grand for my 5D/D700/etc camera with the best L/G/limited/etc lenses but still can't take the shots i see?" As rick said, anybrand is good, what matters most is the user first.. then the gear. Imagine slapping a teenage newbie driver into a Porsche GT3 on a track and expecting him to clock anywhere near the timing of an experienced driver in a s2000.

[Cage]

Big decision time !

As was alluded to above, you're not just buying a camera body, you will be buying into a camera system.

Of the two you mentioned, from what I've seen and read, the D7000 would be the stand-out.

I've just bought the Pentax K5, heavily discounted since the Ricoh takeover. At $1159.00 locally, with Oz warranty, and an extra battery, it was a no-brainer for me.

However, and there is always a 'however', I already have a big, for me, investment in Pentax lens and stuff, so it was the logical way for me to go.

I upgraded from a Pentax K20D and am delighted with the K5. It's much better than I will ever be.

FWIW, if I was starting out, without any brand affiliations, I'd be having a real serious look at getting the Nikon D700. With the D800 replacement looming it could soon become much more affordable.

[Mat]

I must say it is really good to see good advice come from various brand users without the usual slaging. :th3::th3::th3::th3::th3:

[bellamy83]

Hi again guys, thank you for the posts... I have decided on the D7000 after much research and your comments... Now my main decision is what lens to buy as my first.. was maybe thinking the kit lens 18-55? or the 18-105? but should i think about a different lens?

[skanker08]

I too made the choice over the 60D, I love my D7000 with the 18-105. The extra length makes it more practical and I think it's faster at 55 than the 18-55.

[bellamy83]

oh thank you skanker... nice to hear that it sounds like i am making the right choice..

[Cage]

Those that have the D7000 are delighted with it.

I'm sure you will be too.

Don't forget all the learning tools on this site to get you started.

Good luck.

[Ezookiel]

Not sure about the Nikon, but the thing that sold me on the 60D is the ability to fold the rear screen out and view it at a range of angles.
Considering that I sometimes try to get overly creative and that sometimes requires the camera at weird angles, or weird extensions, the fold out viewing pane has helped.
At Fitzroy falls, I held it out over the railing on the tripod to get around a tree that has inconveniently grown up between the viewing platform and the falls. At Floriade, I held the camera at ground level and aimed it up past some flowers to get the flowers foreground with the ferris wheel arching over them in the background, on those occasions I was very happy that I'd made the choice to go with the flip out LCD Panel (and got some really envious comments from the other 2 Canon users who happened to be set up at the same Falls, who came over to ask me about the 60D).

I didn't think I'd ever use the video, but my daughters are now 19 years old, and all my pictures of them are stills. I mate recently brought me a thumbdrive with some video he'd shot at a multicultural festival we'd all attended when they were about 5 or 6, and the footage of my two daughters interacting (One had a big family pack of chips, and kept surreptitiously turning to stop the other reaching into the packet, which we hadn't noticed on the day), has kind of made me aware of just how much more powerful a video can be as a memory than just a single frame. So my intention is that at some events, I'm going to start using the Video feature on mine. It's reported to be better than some dedicated Sony Video Cameras, and all in a camera that takes some superb still photos as well if you know what you're doing with a camera.

But as others have said, comfort makes a big difference too. If you get tired holding it, or it doesn't feel right to you, or you find the controls don't work for you as intuitively on one make over the other, then go with the one that you like the feel of the most. It will likely show in your pictures if you're not comfortable and so rush the shot or don't feel good holding the camera.

[Lucky23]

At the end of the day is comes down to personal preference as Nikon and Canon are both great brands, neither of which would churn out lousy products. I opted for the 60D as it had the tilty screen (saw a commercial for it on YouTube... had me sold :p)

Either direction you go, you'll find enough people to saying you've made the right choice. As some have mentioned already Photography has more to do with the photographer than their equipment.

Good luck and welcome to photography :)

[ricktas]

Hi again guys, thank you for the posts... I have decided on the D7000 after much research and your comments... Now my main decision is what lens to buy as my first.. was maybe thinking the kit lens 18-55? or the 18-105? but should i think about a different lens?

Again, it depends how much you want to spend. a few hundred for a kit lens or a thousand or few for some high quality?

[sonickel77]

I'm considering defecting to Canon, because the 60D can shoot at 25 fps (PAL), but the Nikon D7000 can't.
I'm interested in video and stills photography, and the film industry has gone crazy over Canon DSLR's.
But I already have so many Nikon lenses.... it's so expensive to switch over.... :(

[pearson]

One important thing to take into account is the quality of lens you can buy for the body brand you have purchased. I have used both Canon and Nikon bodies and lenses and while Nikon bodies i found in most cases to be easier to get along with and have more operational features, the Canon lenses were by far the better glass. I sold my Nikon gear and bought Canon bodies because I knew I could trust the Canon lenses (L series) to take the images I was after and because I don't like to mix brands. Canon lenses are MADE for Canon bodies.

[Darey]

FWIW my opinion re purchase of your first lens is that you should go for a fast zoom in the wide angle to short telephoto (Standard) range.
For me the standout, bang for bucks, lens in this class is the " Tamron 17 - 50mm f 2.8 XR Di II SP zoom. This lens is fast and provides tack sharp shots right through it's zoom range. I have used one for 3 years now and love it. You should be able to get one for about $400 from one of our site sponsors.
Note: Again this is just my opinion, there are two Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 zoom lens available, avoid the more expensive one with the image stabilization because the non stabilized one gives sharper results.
Hope the above helps, enjoy your new toys.

[aussieraven]

go and have a feel in store or if you know a friend with one . have a play with the different types of cameras and go with what you feel is right for you. :)

[flashc]

Hi...

I have a Canon 7D. It fits perfectly in my right hand because it's a larger body although at times after a long day, it's a little heavy. I haven't bought a 60D because it's a smaller camera to hold although it's lighter. I'll probably buy another 7D body to have consistency.

After a lot of research, I was going to buy a Nikon 7000 for the reasons given already in other replys, and also because it's modern with a lot of good features - older Nikon lenses will work. I was going to buy a Nikon 35mm f2.0 lens as a standard lens. I wanted to try a Nikon to see if the focussing system operated better than Canon as many Canon to Nikon converts seem to say.

I liked the Nikon D300s but it's getting old in technology features.

I didn't buy the D7000 or any Nikon only because I was still intending to use my 7D and the problems I saw for myself were that Nikon's controls operate differently to Canons. The lens twists onto the camera opposite to Canon. The zoom or focussing rings turn the opposite way. If I had both cameras with me, this could mean that I could try to zoom or focus incorrectly and miss a shot.

The LCD display characters on Nikon DSLR's are formed slightly differently to those used by Canon and I personally prefer the Canon.

If I bought a Nikon tomorrow, I would buy a D7000 or as an entry level a D3100 that has received great revievs.

[LJG]

We have both brands in our household. Each one has its own little things that seem better than the other. I cannot speak for the 60D as I have not had one, I had a 50D, but the D7000 is quite a capable camera. Quality and feel is excellent, it is quite compact but also heavy. I like the way it has 2 roller wheels, one controls shutter speed, the other controls depth of field. I do however prefer Canon as it fits me better and it is what I am used to. Trying both is a good idea as they will feel differently to you and fit your hand differently.

Another point to think about is when you buy a brand you are buying into a complete system. Once you start getting different lenses and flash units it becomes quite a bother and very expensive to change brands. So do a bit of investigating on each brand's offerings and prices with ancillaries. Which one suits you better for price etc. Good luck with your decision but above all, enjoy it and don't let it stress you out!

[Lance B]

the Canon lenses were by far the better glass. I sold my Nikon gear and bought Canon bodies because I knew I could trust the Canon lenses (L series) to take the images I was after and because I don't like to mix brands. Canon lenses are MADE for Canon bodies.

Err, sorry, this is just not true and I really can't see how you can make such a claim. Both Nikon and Canon have excellent lenses and some Nikon are better than Canon and some Canon are better than Nikon. However, the differences are so slight that it would be almost impossible for most to see without expensive test equipment. In fact, there are a few Zeiss, Pentax, Minolta and Sony lenses that could be said to tbe better than some Nikon and Canon glass, but again, the differences are so minimal that it would almost be impossible to differentiate between the best from any lens maker. I am sorry, but to make such a broadbrush statement that Canon Glass is better than Nikon glass is just plain wrong and misleading. I can show you tests where Nikon lenses are shown to be better than Canon and visa versa.

[ricktas]

It doesn't matter what brand you pick, or what lenses you pick. You need to learn how to use them, the limitations of them and how to take good photos.

canon, nikon, sony, pentax, oly etc all make good bodies and good glass, it's about learning how to use your camera, understanding the difference between a kit lens and a pro lens and working with them.

[lindsayr]

I definitely think Canon is the way to go but that is personal preference.

[Epoc]

Canon can't even make a decent printer!! Nikon all the way. Cameras is all they do and they do it well... (he say's with tongue firmly planted in cheek) :lol::lol2::p

[ricktas]

Canon lenses are MADE for Canon bodies.

And Nikon lenses are made for Nikon bodies. Sony for Sony, Pentax for Pentax...

[Cjcc67]

It has all been said. Buy the best lens you can.
You will know the one you want when you hold it.

[achee]

FWIW my opinion re purchase of your first lens is that you should go for a fast zoom in the wide angle to short telephoto (Standard) range.
For me the standout, bang for bucks, lens in this class is the " Tamron 17 - 50mm f 2.8 XR Di II SP zoom. This lens is fast and provides tack sharp shots right through it's zoom range. I have used one for 3 years now and love it. You should be able to get one for about $400 from one of our site sponsors.
Note: Again this is just my opinion, there are two Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 zoom lens available, avoid the more expensive one with the image stabilization because the non stabilized one gives sharper results.
Hope the above helps, enjoy your new toys.

x2 for the Tamron, if you want a good quality, general-purpose, value-for-money lens. And yes, go for the non-VC version!

[Chris C]

I would really like a DSLR.. but am open for options... I have horses, so would love some action shots... also family stuff, landscapes.. ?

Hi Bellamy83,




http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/images/BP-Grey/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ricktas http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/images/BP-Grey/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=970263#post970263)
The other thing to remember is that photos are 90% photographer. You can buy a point and shoot or spend $10K on a camera. It does not take better photos. Don't get to hung up on which camera, they all do the same basic stuff, and any of the current models, from any of the major brands is quite capable of capturing a scene. What is needed is a person behind that camera who knows what they are doing.

Anyone who says buy Nikon, cause its better than Canon, or buy Canon cause its better than Pentax, or buy Pentax cause its better than Sony..doesn't know shite!





I think that nails it neatly.

I've spent some years going through exactly the same process with music. Who makes the good guitars? Fender, Gibson. Yamaha. PRS. Martin, Taylor, Maton? They all do. There's a saying "Tone is in the fingers" and it's true. Gear lust ( Gear Acquisition Syndrome or GAS as we call it) is rampant - and having bought 14 or 15 guitars I'm certainly not knocking it - but by far the most important part of the equation is the player.

I confidently expect that photography will prove to be the same. The Canon 600D I bought is 'entry level' but photographers in the past have taken brilliant photos with much inferior gear than a 600D. It only has "kit lenses" which are usually reckoned to be pretty ordinary, and I have certainly taken some rubbish with them. But now and again I fluke something which gives me a glimpse of what the system is capable of in the hands of somebody who knows what they're doing. Even when they're cropped way down from an original image, the clarity and detail is just incredible.

The big difference between me and a decent photographer is that they could do it time after time, but I just fluke it occasionally.

So don't sweat the decision too much. Next year there will be a model out that purports to be better than the one you buy today, and even when you choose carefully you may never be 100% sure whether one of the other lenses on offer might have been fractionally better for a specific shot . But these are probably fairly small margins compared with the difference you can make with decent skill and knowledge. Of course, none of this will stop me buying more lenses etc long before I actually need too.... :rolleyes:


Good luck with your horse shots.

Cheers,

Chris

Here's a Bee (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisandvicki/6839950240/in/photostream/lightbox/) cropped out of an original image that was over twelve times bigger! No bad for basic equipment operated by a rank novice. I'm sure that some of the people here could do much better again with the same camera, and do it over and over again too.

[mattmegsy]

Hi Bell
I was like you, I did a heap of research before getting into the world of dslr. I decided that I didn't want to buy a beginner camera as I didn't want to have to upgrade not long after. So I was tossing up between the Nikon and the Canon.....I ended up going with the Canon due to the great reviews and I also tested out both camera's beforehand (pretty lucky). It was the best thing that I ever did. I love it....absolutely amazing and quite easy to use if I do say so myself (as a fellow newbie).

But ultimately the decision is up to you....good luck!

Megs

[bellamy83]

Hi guys.. thank you for your help, I purchased a Nikon D7000, have only had it a day so have just been fiddling with the settings and working out a few bits and pieces.. seems there is ALOT to learn! Shall keep me out of mischief for awhile... :)

[WhoDo]

I purchased a Nikon D7000

Now THAT'S a purchase you will NEVER regret, my friend. Of course, I may just be a tad biased! :D

[rodw]

Hi guys.. thank you for your help, I purchased a Nikon D7000, have only had it a day so have just been fiddling with the settings and working out a few bits and pieces.. seems there is ALOT to learn! Shall keep me out of mischief for awhile... :)

Of course we all know a camera is only a tool so brand does not matter but let me welcome you to the Nikon club. My D800 is my third Nikon and the best! You will love your D7000!

[lycan]

why just nikon or cannon why not a sony or panasonic or even pentax or fuji

[ving]

why just nikon or cannon why not a sony or panasonic or even pentax or fuji
too late to the party :p purchase has happened.

congrats on your purchase. you';ll have years of fun with that camera

[aussiegrl]

Congrats on the purchase. I too was tossing between cannnon or nikon. I too went the nikon

[Peebee]

i went canon and havent looked back

[Seven]

Nikon all the way

[AVALANCHE]

You can read up as many reviews as you want... but at the end of the day, they are just the opinion of someone else anyway.

So here is mine! haha

Like you, I distilled it down to choosing between Canon or Nikon as for whatever reason in my mind at the time, I perceived them as the most serious cameras yet at the same time recognised there was a lot of lens choice and after-market bits and pieces easily available. I used both Canon and Nikon, and after holding them both with different models, pushing buttons, seeing what things did...I went with the D7000.

I guess it isn't much different to picking a car...it all comes down to that personal preference, even though cars all do the same thing.

You wouldn't regret the D7000 and it would be a camera to grow into once you've learned the basics, the room is still there to keep you interested with it's features.