No comments on posted shots......good thing or a bad thing?

[GrahamS]

Hey guys.
Just wanted to get other peoples feedback on this question, if you have posted what you believe to be a really good shot and you have asked people to critique it and say........80 people have looked at your shot and maybe you have only had maybe 1 comment on your work........does that say your work is good enough that it does not need critiquing or are people too afraid to leave a comment for fear of offending the original poster.
Just wanted to get peoples thoughts on this.
Cheers.:D

[Kym]

Time of the year? Everyone is busy? But, it would be good if we got more comments.

[WhoDo]

...does that say your work is good enough that it does not need critiquing or are people too afraid to leave a comment for fear of offending the original poster.
I wouldn't read too much into that, Arzuhl. If the image has no obvious issues, many people won't offer a comment. It's likely a confidence thing. I look at lots of images but I comment on very few. It's not that I don't think the others aren't worth commenting on. It may simply be that I'm not particularly moved by the subject or perspective on that; it's a personal (subjective) view not worth making if it doesn't constructively aid the photographer.

Let me explain my point a bit better (read lots more words to avoid confusion). Regardless of the subject or the photographer's perspective, if I can offer some constructive suggestions for improvement I will. OTOH, if the subject or the photographer's perspective doesn't appeal to my personal aesthetics, I'll often avoid commenting because my opinion on aesthetics cannot be considered constructive critique; they like it but I don't ... how does it help either of us to express that? That said, even though I don't like the subject or the photographer's perspective, if I can add something constructive like "use a tighter crop", or "try a different processing technique to achieve your objective", then I will comment anyway. Have I explained that clearly enough?

Personally I'm opposed to making "nice shot" comments and choose instead to hit the "Thanks" button when I can't add anything of value beyond my appreciation for the shot. I don't see the value in CC terms of making 2-word replies, regardless of what the two words are. I've looked at a lot of your images and they seem pretty good to me, in general. If I think I can help you to improve I'll post a comment; otherwise I may just move on or, if it's a really nice shot, I might hit the "Thanks" button in appreciation. It may simply be a case of "no news is good news", but unless I can pick out what really attracts me to the image, there is little constructive to be added. :confused013

I hope that all makes sense, Arzuhl. Don't be discouraged by a lack of responses. Remember the 3:1 ratio "rule" here and post 3 CC comments elsewhere for every image you post. Before you know it you'll have a strong following of those on whose images you've commented wanting to return the favour. :th3:

[Kym]

We are also trialling a new Thanks + Like button system.
The mods are debating whether to keep the Like option.

[Brian500au]

I have often wondered the same question, and come to realise some people specialise in a commenting on a certain genre of photography. I display my work regularly to get feedback, and I find normally the same people chip in to give me constructive critique.

I am the same as WhoDo - I tend to only check a couple of forums and only add comments where 1. the shot is a great shot and I wish to let the OP know or 2. where I feel the OP is looking for constructive feedback to improve obvious mistakes with the shot, and then only where I feel I have the skill to comment.

[ricktas]

I try and comment a few times a day on photo threads, even if I am busy. The last few days have been hectic with relatives from interstate etc, but I still try and get a few critiques in, but certainly, the festive season has meant people have other priorities. They probably have a quick look at AP, just to keep in touch, but then have to get away from the computer to spend time with family etc.

[JM Tran]

post a generic landscape shot and you can be guaranteed your topic will be filled with comments:D:th3:

[arthurking83]

post a generic landscape shot and you can be guaranteed your topic will be filled with comments:D:th3:

I think it's easier to tire of the same ol same ol smooth skinned, model shoot using the same CS actions for processing... than it is of a more dynamic and powerful landscape image.

each to their own.

Personally, I tend not to comment if my thoughts have already been said, unless I have a new spin on the intention of the comment.
Of course this is all a matter of having the time to do as as well.

[Lance B]

Well, I did say that having to critique rather than just saying "Good shot" would mean that more people end up not bothering to say anything at all, especially when they have little time. :D

As we may have witnessed, the fact that it is Christmas means that people have little time for "real" critiquing and therefore seem to have opted out altogether. However, I do like the "like this post" option as it does give a simple and quick way to show appreciation for a photo/photos.

[JM Tran]

I think it's easier to tire of the same ol same ol smooth skinned, model shoot using the same CS actions for processing... than it is of a more dynamic and powerful landscape image.

each to their own.

Personally, I tend not to comment if my thoughts have already been said, unless I have a new spin on the intention of the comment.
Of course this is all a matter of having the time to do as as well.

Obviously. Its more to do with the 'average demographics' of AP as a whole, compared to other forums, where each one tends to lean towards a certain genre. I prefer images being created out of nothing, instead of the same ol same ol sun goes up, sun goes down, rocks and mountains shots.

A dynamic, powerful landscape image on AP? Havent seen one of those in a while.

[98kellrs]

Like others have said, the more times you comment on other people's work, the more likely they are to notice your work and provide CC.

Sometimes an image is just too good for me to be able to offer any CC, other times they just don't interest me at all so I don't feel compelled to offer CC because it is not my area of interest.

[GrahamS]

Awesome thx so much to all that replied and those that have left comments on my shots, please don't get me wrong, I'm not having a whinge just something i have been noticing as i have been posting more shots now that i have fully recovered from knee surgery and am out and about again......YAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers to all and all the best for 2011.

[Roosta]

I think it's easier to tire of the same ol same ol smooth skinned, model shoot using the same CS actions for processing... than it is of a more dynamic and powerful landscape image.

each to their own.

Personally, I tend not to comment if my thoughts have already been said, unless I have a new spin on the intention of the comment.
Of course this is all a matter of having the time to do as as well.


Obviously. Its more to do with the 'average demographics' of AP as a whole, compared to other forums, where each one tends to lean towards a certain genre. I prefer images being created out of nothing, instead of the same ol same ol sun goes up, sun goes down, rocks and mountains shots.

A dynamic, powerful landscape image on AP? Havent seen one of those in a while.

I'm sensing a land/seascape shoot off here !!!! LOL

Then

The Formal/Posed shoot off, can't wait.....

[arthurking83]

Obviously. .......

:rolleyes:

As a member, you are free to post some of these images you've created out of nothing. AP doesn't impose any limitations for you to post the same ol same ol.

ACTUALLY!!! .... if you'd taken a few seconds to study the figures more carefully, instead of wasted those seconds spreading more misinformation, you would see that in the respective fora sub headings, of the combination of formal and posed and candid threads posted, a member is more likely to have (averaged out) over 10 replies to each thread, whereas the land and sea scapes were under the 10 replies per thread ratio.
The bird forum is also a high response area, and some of the other nature topics seem to have even more than 10x ratio too.

These figures seem to be at odds with your 'demographics' theory!
That there are more landscape threads created is not really a demographics issue, it's simply a by product of the interests that the members of a community seem to have.

AP is not a model mayhem, or fashion R us centred community. The scope of the forum is broader than just one single topic of interest.


You don't require an especially high intellect to see these figures, and they are not hidden for only the mods to see.

As an example:


birds
6317 threads
55321 posts
1:9 threads to replies ratio


land/sea scapes
7643 threads
67943 posts
1:9 threads to replies ratio


candids
1312 threads
9664 posts
1:7 threads to replies ratio


formal/posed
1938 threads
21207 posts
1:11 threads to replies ratio


(numbers have been rounded(up/down)
It's pretty evident here which genre will be more likely to attract comments, and what type of images are likely to effect a higher reply ratio.
But that is a simplistic outlook on the topics when they're averaged out. Exceptional images will generally elicit a higher response ratio, but this is a not fact.
In many cases, posted images with an apparent lower standard of presentation can still attract many responses, but the difference is that these responses are usually directed at the flaws in the image and how to better improve on it.
Many landscapes threads on AP are centred on this aspect of photography ... self help improvement.

But of course you don't have to take my word for it .. JMT is the expert on how AP works and runs .... and with respect to photography in general ... not to mention demographics!! :rolleyes:

Look at any general photography forum/community and most if not all will have a higher number of landscape centred threads than any other single photography genre.
It's just the nature of the beast, and that landscape photography is an area of interest for most photographers.

[geoffsta]

I have noticed that some images that are below average, often get a lot of comments. Most members, even the newer ones feel that they can add their thoughts and ideas to help the member out.
So don't feel discouraged if you get only a few comments. Most images on here are of a very high quality. So an average shot here is pretty much of a high standard.

[gerry]

This issue of responses and comments comes up every so often on every forum, it will always be a issue, for the simple fact that most people are more interested in 'sharing' their images then actually 'giving' critique and feedback.

I think the culture of 'sharing' images being a contribution needs to be altered (not necessarily just here - moreso over any amatuer based photography forum/medium). By posting images you are in fact withdrawing from the 'bank' - by critiquing and providing feedback is a way of depositing in that bank.

If we lived in a world where there were a shortage of photos then sharing would be deposit, however from what I see, there is a shortage of good feedback and critique.


Like others have said, the more times you comment on other people's work, the more likely they are to notice your work and provide CC.



that, unfortunately just creates a mates club - a more appropriate (imo) would be to comment on a members images who also contribute worthwhile feedback to teh community.

in fact, i should have not opened this thread and just gave someone some feedback on their image. doh. ;)

[JM Tran]

:rolleyes:

As a member, you are free to post some of these images you've created out of nothing. AP doesn't impose any limitations for you to post the same ol same ol.

ACTUALLY!!! .... if you'd taken a few seconds to study the figures more carefully, instead of wasted those seconds spreading more misinformation, you would see that in the respective fora sub headings, of the combination of formal and posed and candid threads posted, a member is more likely to have (averaged out) over 10 replies to each thread, whereas the land and sea scapes were under the 10 replies per thread ratio.
The bird forum is also a high response area, and some of the other nature topics seem to have even more than 10x ratio too.

These figures seem to be at odds with your 'demographics' theory!
That there are more landscape threads created is not really a demographics issue, it's simply a by product of the interests that the members of a community seem to have.

AP is not a model mayhem, or fashion R us centred community. The scope of the forum is broader than just one single topic of interest.


You don't require an especially high intellect to see these figures, and they are not hidden for only the mods to see.

As an example:


birds
6317 threads
55321 posts
1:9 threads to replies ratio


land/sea scapes
7643 threads
67943 posts
1:9 threads to replies ratio


candids
1312 threads
9664 posts
1:7 threads to replies ratio


formal/posed
1938 threads
21207 posts
1:11 threads to replies ratio


(numbers have been rounded(up/down)
It's pretty evident here which genre will be more likely to attract comments, and what type of images are likely to effect a higher reply ratio.
But that is a simplistic outlook on the topics when they're averaged out. Exceptional images will generally elicit a higher response ratio, but this is a not fact.
In many cases, posted images with an apparent lower standard of presentation can still attract many responses, but the difference is that these responses are usually directed at the flaws in the image and how to better improve on it.
Many landscapes threads on AP are centred on this aspect of photography ... self help improvement.

But of course you don't have to take my word for it .. JMT is the expert on how AP works and runs .... and with respect to photography in general ... not to mention demographics!! :rolleyes:

Look at any general photography forum/community and most if not all will have a higher number of landscape centred threads than any other single photography genre.
It's just the nature of the beast, and that landscape photography is an area of interest for most photographers.


Have eagerly been expecting a long essay response from you. From the time spent writing that, why not spend the time taking photos and improving instead of trying to 2nd guess my post? You completely missed the point about the 'AP demographics' I had mentioned. I belong to many photography forums, in the past and present - such as fredmiranda.com, dpreview, photography-on-the-net, AP, trek earth etc - fredmiranda being where a lot of working pros in the US and some from Europe hang out - landscape is not their main focus unfortunately. So what forums do you appear on as well for essay contributions?

What else would you like to misinterpret or misunderstand?


But of course you don't have to take my word for it .. JMT is the expert on how AP works and runs .... and with respect to photography in general ... not to mention demographics!!

why thank you:) Coming from the expert in writing a lot of technical stuff but without the backing of actual end product to support the expert's wealth of knowledge and 'skills' - I take that as a compliment. But unfortunately, being a photography orientated forum - one does prefer to see people's photos and actual skills instead of encyclopedic knowledge which 'should' equate to good photos. But sometimes it doesnt.


I'm sensing a land/seascape shoot off here !!!! LOL

Then

The Formal/Posed shoot off, can't wait.....

yeah give me about half an hour Roosta, will make a thread of my landscape images that I have shot and contributed for Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Lonely Planet etc. Just because I mentioned landscape does not mean I dont do it or enjoy it, some people get ticked off the wrong way you know and think you are attacking them, when you arent:)


post a generic landscape shot and you can be guaranteed your topic will be filled with comments
I think it's easier to tire of the same ol same ol smooth skinned, model shoot using the same CS actions for processing... than it is of a more dynamic and powerful landscape image.

Did you just happen to forget that landscape images are often the most 'massaged' or processed photo of any genre?! Majority of fashion or model shoots dont need that much retouching once the lighting and hair and make up is right. Oh wait, I dont think you do, because well.....you know:) BTW, I dont do much retouching for fashion/commercial either, dont need to. Maybe you do, so good on you.

[geoffsta]

Unfortunately just creates a mates club

I really don't believe that at all. Yes, you do get to create some really good online friendships. But the idea of only commenting on members that you know is a myth.
One thing I don't like is commenting on members images were that member rarely gives much CC. When someone that has been a member for ages, and has very few posts makes me wonder if they are "sharers" or just don't spend that much time on the site.

[ricktas]

Funny how a thread ABOUT critiquing gets 18 posts in 6 1/2 hours and even out of those who have posted to this thread, only 3 have posted a critique on another members photo, since this thread started. Me thinks we spend way to much time analysing the why's of things, instead of actually DOING! I am off to critique a photo or two.

[Ezookiel]

I'm rarely able to add anything constructive as I'm way too new to this myself, add to that the fact that there has been a bit of a trend lately to discourage too many people just saying "Nice Shot" (which is fair enough, as it is in the CC area, and "nice shot" isn't really CC), so with both those factors, and then the time of year where everyone is away, or busy with family, and you may not get too much CC at the moment. Even less if your shots are good enough that there's not much that people can add in the way of any useful CC.

I do like the idea of a "like" button now. That's a great idea. Because telling people that you like their shot is definitely constructive, as it tells them to a degree, that they're on the right track, or what they've done has worked, but dozens of "nice shot" posts makes it too hard to weed through to the useful stuff when you go back to look up the suggestions people made, or the settings they recommended. The "like" button solves both problems.

[JM Tran]

I'm rarely able to add anything constructive as I'm way too new to this myself, add to that the fact that there has been a bit of a trend lately to discourage too many people just saying "Nice Shot" (which is fair enough, as it is in the CC area, and "nice shot" isn't really CC), so with both those factors, and then the time of year where everyone is away, or busy with family, and you may not get too much CC at the moment. Even less if your shots are good enough that there's not much that people can add in the way of any useful CC.

I do like the idea of a "like" button now. That's a great idea. Because telling people that you like their shot is definitely constructive, as it tells them to a degree, that they're on the right track, or what they've done has worked, but dozens of "nice shot" posts makes it too hard to weed through to the useful stuff when you go back to look up the suggestions people made, or the settings they recommended. The "like" button solves both problems.

I agree with you, I find the Like button much more useful than the thank you button. As it has already been stated in this thread, sometimes I cant form enough words to write a small critique, sometimes it doesnt need to when you look at it and go wow, or urghhhhh.....!

So clicking like is/can be better than saying 'great shot'

and sometimes, earlier posters have said everything I would have said anyway so I felt no more need to comment or critique.

[Roosta]

I'm rarely able to add anything constructive as I'm way too new to this myself, add to that the fact that there has been a bit of a trend lately to discourage too many people just saying "Nice Shot" (which is fair enough, as it is in the CC area, and "nice shot" isn't really CC), so with both those factors, and then the time of year where everyone is away, or busy with family, and you may not get too much CC at the moment. Even less if your shots are good enough that there's not much that people can add in the way of any useful CC.

I do like the idea of a "like" button now. That's a great idea. Because telling people that you like their shot is definitely constructive, as it tells them to a degree, that they're on the right track, or what they've done has worked, but dozens of "nice shot" posts makes it too hard to weed through to the useful stuff when you go back to look up the suggestions people made, or the settings they recommended. The "like" button solves both problems.

I have to disagree with the "LIKE Button" If you take the time to view an image and feel stired in some way, why not tell them in a few simple words, rather than press the like button. It's just lazy/poor form IMO. Not a fan.

"CC" can also but not always be used as a medium to portray your feels on said image, not just good sky, poor lighting or what ever.

OP's can post what they believe to be a good image at their level of experience, or be looking to gain something from posting an image, if you get a bunch of 'LIKE Buttons" that would SH!T me to tears, it doesn't offer any feedback at all IMO. I'm a firm believer that this site has made me a better photographer from decent HONEST CC of my presented images. Not just to Nice Colour and the like, but maybe you could try this next time, or try these settings.

You don't have to be of a medium or above level of skill to offer what said image stirs inside you, that's part of the art.

But Ezookeil, if you like the "LIKE Button" you should continue to use it, we're all different.

P.S, Please don't let this site get like a Social Network.

I can see both gerry's and geoffsta's points on "Friendships" I do look for CC sometimes from a particular AP'er, but I normally ask for it in the story of my image. Lets face it, there are some pretty bloody good photographers on this site, and If I can gain something from him/her and they will openly contribute, that's got to be good, is it not?

[ricktas]

The mods and I have been discussing the new thanks and like buttons (our old system was no longer a supported add-on). The new one is very customisable, and there is some difference of opinion between us as to whether the like should stay, be renamed or go. Some like them, and others dislike them (hehe).

We might run a poll in a week or two with some alternative ideas we have, for wording of them, if members feel they are detracting from the site, in their present form.

[Ezookiel]

I only see the LIKE as an alternative to adding yet another "That's a really great shot" to a thread full of that already if you know what I mean.
My problem is a lack of confidence to critique a photo when the vast majority of the photos posted are shots I could only dream of getting, that I'm in no position to make much useful comment on. This means my only option is to say "Great Shot" but that is being discouraged on what I believe are reasonable grounds, so the "Like" gives me an alternative.
I must admit though, the movement away from "Great Shot" has actually made me have to stop and think a lot more about an image that I'd like to comment on. And that in turn has often made me look much more deeply at a person's image, and helped me see things I might not have actually seen to comment on. However, I'm not sure everyone will do that. Most will either make no comment because thinking more about the image takes either too much time or too much brain power, or because there is now a "Like" button that will make it unnecessary. I guess I'm still undecided about the button. I certainly don't see AP overtaking Facebook any time soon just with the inclusion of it ;)

[reflect]

I honestly think that comments have as much to with viewers available time and interest in the subject as knowledge of the genre. Personally I am more likely to comment on a shot with people in it, mainly because they are so variable, even in the studio, and therefore to me, I wish to either comment on a photographers skill ( lighting, pose, interaction, etc) or offer some of my limited mistake based gained knowledge. Recently I have shot some seascapes and, I am sorry to those that love them, found a sort of sameness in them all, even with changing processing styles. Thats just me, no insult at all intended. However if I see a striking, out of the (dare I say it) ordinary landscape, seascape etc I will comment, just as I did when the Gold Coasts' resident seascape maestro, William posted a dramatic mono just this week. Dont take it personally if you dont get a high comment rate every time, and try to look around and comment on others contributions, and please join in to the discussion forums as well, the more the merrier, most of all remember how lucky we are to have this as our obsession. Just my opinion..lol :D

[Roosta]

The mods and I have been discussing the new thanks and like buttons (our old system was no longer a supported add-on). The new one is very customisable, and there is some difference of opinion between us as to whether the like should stay, be renamed or go. Some like them, and others dislike them (hehe).

We might run a poll in a week or two with some alternative ideas we have, for wording of them, if members feel they are detracting from the site, in their present form.

Good one Rick, will look out for it.

As always, Thanks.

[gerry]

I really don't believe that at all. Yes, you do get to create some really good online friendships. But the idea of only commenting on members that you know is a myth.
One thing I don't like is commenting on members images were that member rarely gives much CC. When someone that has been a member for ages, and has very few posts makes me wonder if they are "sharers" or just don't spend that much time on the site.

whilst i have no hard numbers, i do not think its a myth. I also think its a bit unfair to judge someone based on pure post count vs signup time. I think it would be wise check the quality of their posts rather than quantity. I know i would rather try for a smaller number of quality critiques/feedback over trying to cover everyones images.


Funny how a thread ABOUT critiquing gets 18 posts in 6 1/2 hours and even out of those who have posted to this thread, only 3 have posted a critique on another members photo, since this thread started. Me thinks we spend way to much time analysing the why's of things, instead of actually DOING! I am off to critique a photo or two.

;)

http://gerry.avernus.com.au/slide/files/2773_1catg/duty_calls.png

[Roosta]

I'm rarely able to add anything constructive as I'm way too new to this myself, add to that the fact that there has been a bit of a trend lately to discourage too many people just saying "Nice Shot" (which is fair enough, as it is in the CC area, and "nice shot" isn't really CC), so with both those factors, and then the time of year where everyone is away, or busy with family, and you may not get too much CC at the moment. Even less if your shots are good enough that there's not much that people can add in the way of any useful CC.

I do like the idea of a "like" button now. That's a great idea. Because telling people that you like their shot is definitely constructive, as it tells them to a degree, that they're on the right track, or what they've done has worked, but dozens of "nice shot" posts makes it too hard to weed through to the useful stuff when you go back to look up the suggestions people made, or the settings they recommended. The "like" button solves both problems.

Under my good to see CC being used correctly thoughts, I came across this little bueaty from yourself (I've found out a bit about how you got this fantastic shot from the image EXIF data, but would you mind sharing if you used the Lee Big Stopper or any other filters you have mentioned in your signature, with the shot? Only asking as it might help me to be able to get shots like this. I'm assuming at 1/40 second that you used a tripod or other rest, or was it free hand?

Thanks in advance.)

So much better than the "LIKE Button"

Where's the CC as such? It's a bloody good question you pose to the OP, this is what helps us all, somebody else might be kicking back thinking "How do I get that" and by you asking the question and receiving the response, that person and yourself and good knows how many others can learn from the experience. Thanks what I'm talking about.. Love to see this in posts.

[Ezookiel]

Thanks (I couldn't resist clicking "Like this post" on your response though ;) )
I've been reluctant to ask questions within someone's CC thread, as it's not really what CC is all about - in theory it should really only be constructive criticism about the image, not a 'how to' thread, but it's also rarely worth starting a whole thread just to ask how someone took a particular shot. So sometimes I risk stepping on a moderator's toes and ask questions within the CC thread itself. It sure has to beat "Nice Shot" for the 30th time in the same thread though surely?

[arthurking83]

Mr Roosta make a very pertinent point.

Even if you can't think of anything constructive to say about the image, there's no reason not to interrogate the OP on their methods and hence deconstruct the image.

In that post that Roosta is referring too, did any aspect of the image seem inappropriate to you?

[Kym]

Like is dead, it is now Thanks for CC but ONLY on the CC forums, also Thanks is now thanks for useful post

[Seabee]

Mr Roosta make a very pertinent point.

Even if you can't think of anything constructive to say about the image, there's no reason not to interrogate the OP on their methods and hence deconstruct the image.

In that post that Roosta is referring too, did any aspect of the image seem inappropriate to you?


Agreed.............I am more than willing to share any knowledge I have accquired, no matter how miniscule it may be!

[ricktas]

Thanks (I couldn't resist clicking "Like this post" on your response though ;) )
I've been reluctant to ask questions within someone's CC thread, as it's not really what CC is all about - in theory it should really only be constructive criticism about the image, not a 'how to' thread, but it's also rarely worth starting a whole thread just to ask how someone took a particular shot. So sometimes I risk stepping on a moderator's toes and ask questions within the CC thread itself. It sure has to beat "Nice Shot" for the 30th time in the same thread though surely?

Not true. We will never stop members asking relevant questions in Critique threads. After all, AP exists to allow members to get critique and IMPROVE. How can we (any of us) improve, without asking relevant questions and getting informative answers. Ask whatever you want of the photographer, as long as it relates to photo/discussion and isn't completely off-topic, there is zero reason the mods or I would do anything about your post(s).