Upgrade to Enthusiast or Pro body

[98kellrs]

I'm not normally one to post such questions, I prefer to do my own research but I am really struggling to make my mind up on this one.

Currently I'm in photographic doldrums, I am bouncing around different genres trying to work out what really makes me tick. At the moment my main focus is motorsport, but with my partner owning a dance studio I've had some exposure to concert and studio photography and have just bought a Tokina 11-16mm for landscape, and derelict building photography. I would definitely like to do some locational portraiture in the coming months.

I am happy with the lenses I've got (except for possibly a 70-200mm f2.8L), but I can't help but feel like the body is killing me. The poor AF system and slow 3.7fps of my current 600D are the main issues. I would also like a body that can handle higher ISO's a little better.

So my main choices at the moment are the 7D and a 1D MkIII. I've seen some good condition 1D3's go for around $2000 and some 7D's at around $1200. Budget-wise I can stretch to $2000, but I have heard of AF issues on the 1D3's and this concerns me.

So what do you guys/girls think? Am I going overkill with a 1D3? :confused013

(P.s I am planning to wait until the new 1DX comes out which will hopefully reduce the price of older 1D's by $$$'s)

[William]

Dont forget if you go to the 1D MkIII most of your current lenses wont work on the Full Frame , So maybe stick with the Crop sensor 7D :umm:

[Wobbles]

Hi Ryan,
I upgraded from a pair of 50D's to the 1DIII about 12 months ago. I certainly did consider the 7D (great camera by the way and I may still get one as a 2nd body) but thought I would always be wondering "what if" and have not regreted spending the extra $'s. It's built like a tank, weather proof, great ergonomics, battery lasts "forever" etc. etc.
The AF issue was initially raised by sport 'togs that were losing focus on atheletes running at the camera! Canon, after initially denying it, fixed the problem in later versions (If the serial number on the bottom of the camera is between 501001 and 546561, it could be affected by the “AF mirror adjustment issue” ). I personally haven't experienced the problem with my 1D..
Cheers
John

[Wobbles]

Dont forget if you go to the 1D MkIII most of your current lenses wont work on the Full Frame , So maybe stick with the Crop sensor 7D :umm:

Umm... all the lenses the OP has in his sig will work on the 1DIII, even the Toki albeit only from 13mm up without vignetting (but superbly sharp all the way!).

[William]

Ooops ! :Doh:Did'nt even look at the sig :o

[98kellrs]

I was wondering William!! You had me scared then! :D

I'm aiming to make the purchase a long-term investment (photographically at least). So I would love to stretch for the 1d4 (or 1dX if I won the lottery) but I just can't justify that much money right now. I've played with a firend's 1D2 and loved the ergonomics, even with my current body being gripped, the 1d2 was in a totally different league comfort-wise.

Thanks John for the advice about the serial numbers, I hadn't managed to find out which ones were affected, which is why I was so apprehensive. I can definitely see myself having the "what-if" dilehma if I settled for the 7D (even though I know it's a fantastic camera).

The whole weather-proof thing intrigues me, surely this relies on a similarly weather-proof lens/lens mount?

[Brian500au]

I have used 1D bodies for years after upgrading from the old 10D. For a second body I have had a 30D, 40D and a 5D but I just cannot let go of my trusty 1DMKIII. Over the years I have had 1DSII, 1DII and 1DIIn but the best body I have ever owned is the 1DIII (but the 1DSII comes very close too).

If your budget is stretch don't over look the 1DMKIIn at less than 1K now - some of my best shots were taken with this camera, and if it was not for the older style battery I would have one as my back up body now.

The 1DMKIII at the moment is a bargain - less than 2K used. Don't worry about the focus issue - most have been fixed and in normal use there is no way a non professional tog is ever going to come across the situation where this was an issue. I can't wait for the 1DX to be released so I can pick up a 1DsMKIII as a second body. Be warned, once you have the "1 Series" fever you can never go back.

[Wobbles]

The whole weather-proof thing intrigues me, surely this relies on a similarly weather-proof lens/lens mount?
Yes, the 1D weather proofing is reliant on matching it with certain Canon L Lenses that also have (additional) o-rings & gaskets to reduce chance of ingress by water/dust. These include 16-35, 17-40, 24-70, 70-200 IS and all the big white primes. The combination should not be considered waterproof but it will survive in adverse conditions longer than any "standard" kit. If you're planning to shoot in heavy rain/snow etc. a good cover is still essential.

[98kellrs]

Be warned, once you have the "1 Series" fever you can never go back.

I had a feeling that was the case with 1 series bodies, thanks for sharing your experiences. I've seen your work and firmly believe that it will be years before I can fully utilise the 1DIII body the way you do.

That makes sense regarding the weather-resistance, I had seen a tog at a motox event shooting in the pouring rain whilst I was sheltering under the tree, he was using top end Nikon though which may be different.

I too am eagerly waiting on the release of the 1DX, roll on March! :D

[Roosta]

Mate just did the same thing as you, There is a spec 1D111 at Camera Electronic in Perth, Sterling St. They want $2200 for it, it has had the mirror box replaced and has about 86000 actuations on it. I got lucky and found a 1Dmk2N, they are in a league of there own, for me, it's sports photography (Rugby Union) so the 1DMk2n is a faster FPS than the 1D2. Very happy with it, the AF is spot on, My 50D is still there as a second body. I will use this for my landscape work, but the 1D is it for the rest. Still can get parts/spares, I sourced a spare new battery through Battery World for $75.00 (Same spec as Gen Canon), half the price of some other outlets specialising in camera gear.

Would recommend the 1D, you'll not look back. If you can afford the 1D3, grab one. But like John metioned check serial numbers.

[Gollum]

Yes, the 1D weather proofing is reliant on matching it with certain Canon L Lenses that also have (additional) o-rings & gaskets to reduce chance of ingress by water/dust. These include 16-35, 17-40, 24-70, 70-200 IS and all the big white primes. The combination should not be considered waterproof but it will survive in adverse conditions longer than any "standard" kit. If you're planning to shoot in heavy rain/snow etc. a good cover is still essential.

As to what lenes are "dust and drip resistant", please see post below. If the Canon site states they are... then are.

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?87805-Partially-Weather-Sealed-Canon-Lenses

[Lance B]

Having gone from Pentax APS C to Nikon FF in the guise of a D700, the only issue I found was that I ran out of "reach". With FF, you need to get longer lenses as you miss out on the crop factor effect of APS C, so for all intents and purposes of the discussion, a 200mm lens on FF is actually a 200mm lens and not like a 300mm on APS C. I now also have a Nikon D7000 APS C DSLR as a my "reach" camera when the D700 is too short where I use the D700 up to my 300mm f2.8 and then switch to the D7000 over that. Having said that, I do use the D700 and put TC's on the 300 or 70-200 when I have left the D7000 at home. Just remember that these FF lenses are hugely expensive, not to mention LARGE, when compared to sticking with APS C and having that "crop factor" of 1.5x (or 1.6x in the case of Canon) built in. So, you need lot's of money and will lug arond lot's of heavy lenses if you're shooting birds or anything where long lenses are required.

Other than that, I couldn't be happier with the move to FF as the overall IQ and DOF control is better, IMO.

[Roosta]

Having gone from Pentax APS C to Nikon FF in the guise of a D700, the only issue I found was that I ran out of "reach". With FF, you need to get longer lenses as you miss out on the crop factor effect of APS C, so for all intents and purposes of the discussion, a 200mm lens on FF is actually a 200mm lens and not like a 300mm on APS C. I now also have a Nikon D7000 APS C DSLR as a my "reach" camera when the D700 is too short where I use the D700 up to my 300mm f2.8 and then switch to the D7000 over that. Having said that, I do use the D700 and put TC's on the 300 or 70-200 when I have left the D7000 at home. Just remember that these FF lenses are hugely expensive, not to mention LARGE, when compared to sticking with APS C and having that "crop factor" of 1.5x (or 1.6x in the case of Canon) built in. So, you need lot's of money and will lug arond lot's of heavy lenses if you're shooting birds or anything where long lenses are required.

Other than that, I couldn't be happier with the move to FF as the overall IQ and DOF control is better, IMO.

Correct me if im wrong, but only the EFOV will change, 200mm is still 200mm no matter what size sensor its applied to. The narrow FOV is due to the smaller sensor only being able to collect that size image, it acts like your using a longer FL lens but the only difference is the size of image captured by a APS-C to a FF sensor.

William W posted a very effective still of this in one of my posts about a month ago. Will see if I can find the link and post it here. Unless WW best me.

Try this one - http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?94736-EF-S

[jim]

Roosta, I believe that, while the true difference may not be exactly the 1.5x crop ratio; from Lance's point of view you still get greater reach with the crop body (vital for bird pictures) because of the greater pixel density of the APS-C sensor as opposed to the FF. So his point remains a good one.

[Roosta]

Roosta, I believe that, while the true difference may not be exactly the 1.5x crop ratio; from Lance's point of view you still get greater reach with the crop body (vital for bird pictures) because of the greater pixel density of the APS-C sensor as opposed to the FF. So his point remains a good one.

How does more pixels or closer packed pixels give longer reach? Focal Lenght is just that, is it not? I don't understand how. I can see that the EFOV is greater and may increase the look of the image captured, but that doesn't make up for focal lenght change in any way.

[jim]

The image will look better from a crop body because more pixels on the subject means more resolution. Which does add up to an improvement, even though the focal length stays the same. So effectively you get more reach with the crop body.

[98kellrs]

Having gone from Pentax APS C to Nikon FF in the guise of a D700, the only issue I found was that I ran out of "reach". With FF, you need to get longer lenses as you miss out on the crop factor effect of APS C, so for all intents and purposes of the discussion, a 200mm lens on FF is actually a 200mm lens and not like a 300mm on APS C. I now also have a Nikon D7000 APS C DSLR as a my "reach" camera when the D700 is too short where I use the D700 up to my 300mm f2.8 and then switch to the D7000 over that. Having said that, I do use the D700 and put TC's on the 300 or 70-200 when I have left the D7000 at home. Just remember that these FF lenses are hugely expensive, not to mention LARGE, when compared to sticking with APS C and having that "crop factor" of 1.5x (or 1.6x in the case of Canon) built in. So, you need lot's of money and will lug arond lot's of heavy lenses if you're shooting birds or anything where long lenses are required.

Other than that, I couldn't be happier with the move to FF as the overall IQ and DOF control is better, IMO.

Thanks guys, this is something I had definitely considered, especially as I quite like to shoot motorsport at the weekends. Thankfully my local track has very good spectator viewing areas, and for some events I'm granted infield access which means that reach won't be an issue.

As I understand it, with a FF body and the lower resolution (megapixels) sensor I will need to ensure I fill the frame with my subject a little more. I've never really been a fan of heavy cropping anyway so this shouldn't really change my approach too much. Like you, I will probably carry my 600D as my "reach" camera, it's lasted me well so far so I will have no dramas pulling it out if I need to. I'm hoping my 100-400 should suffice though. :th3:

Rooster, take a photo at full zoom with your 50D, then standing in the same place put that lens on your 1dmk2 take the shot at full zoom and crop it so that it looks like your first shot. Then compare which looks clearer and sharper. That's probably the best way to see the difference. You are right though, Lance was refering to effective focal length. :)

[Roosta]

Yeah I get all that, but I guess it's whether your getting all the image you want. If it's just a little bird and that's your main interest thats fine, but most pro's or paid photographers use at least APS-H bodies. My 1D is to be used as a FPS and Focus camera, the 50D is better for capturing landscapes, but if I had a 1D 3 or 4 then thats a different story, so yeap, I can see why you would use Newer APS-C over an older FF for birding. Pixels.

For your use, I wouldn't hesitate on the 1D series body. Do you shoot for the WASCC at Wanneroo, and what events can you gain inner track access?

[98kellrs]

The WASCC don't really have anyone shooting "for" them as such, there's a few guys that get access to their events though. Mostly it's just a case of turning up and signing on. I usually decline the opportunity to go infield as it usually means shooting into the sun, especially in the afternoon. I've also had 'trakdayz' (motorbikes) inner field access, and they have much more relaxed rules.

If you ever want to head up there sometime give me a shout, I'm always keen!

[Roosta]

The WASCC don't really have anyone shooting "for" them as such, there's a few guys that get access to their events though. Mostly it's just a case of turning up and signing on. I usually decline the opportunity to go infield as it usually means shooting into the sun, especially in the afternoon. I've also had 'trakdayz' (motorbikes) inner field access, and they have much more relaxed rules.

If you ever want to head up there sometime give me a shout, I'm always keen!

Will do, that would be great, especially the bikes, as I ride.

Cheers

[Analog6]

I've had the 1DMkIIN and the 1DsMkII. Both are superb bodies. As you know the N is a 1.3 crop, but great for sport. When I shot surfing with it I would often get a burst of 18 shots, great for capturing that special moment. The 1DsMkII was not as quick on the burst but still very good. For me, the 7D cannot compare to either of these superb pro bodies. And they have the bonus of being far more robust and waterproofed.

[98kellrs]

Will do, that would be great, especially the bikes, as I ride.

Cheers

Will have to wait a few months though, it's closed for upgrades at the moment. :)

[98kellrs]

I've had the 1DMkIIN and the 1DsMkII. Both are superb bodies. As you know the N is a 1.3 crop, but great for sport. When I shot surfing with it I would often get a burst of 18 shots, great for capturing that special moment. The 1DsMkII was not as quick on the burst but still very good. For me, the 7D cannot compare to either of these superb pro bodies. And they have the bonus of being far more robust and waterproofed.

Thanks Odille, I have played with a 1dsmk2 and was very impressed. Besides the burst what did you think was the most useful difference between the 1Dmk2 and the 7D?

[Analog6]

Thanks Odille, I have played with a 1dsmk2 and was very impressed. Besides the burst what did you think was the most useful difference between the 1Dmk2 and the 7D?

I just liked the feel of the 1D in the hand, and the controls seemed more intuitive to me. My friend Gail has a 7D and I think it is a bugger to use, the menus are difficult to find things in, and even with the price difference the pro body leaves it for dead. I don't know the burst rate on the 7D but using the 1DsMkII & 100-400L for surfing I have sequences of 6 in 5 seconds, but I often do pause slightly, it's hard to tell. It's more than a shot a second, one set of 3 says they were in the same second.

[Speedway]

With the 7D in high speed continuous it is 8 Frames per second up to aprox 126 jpeg images, I have bursts of 20 shots in under 3 seconds of off road racers coming over jumps toward me and the supurb af system never missed a shot. That and the higher pixel density make it the ideal camera for what I do. Birds, wildlife and motorsrort.
Keith.