Why get a photographer

[Shelley]

I consider myself quite a tolerant person and try to understand whether others are coming from.

But, I just had a recent photography session, which left me quite exhausted and the stress caused me back spasms when I got home and quite uptight not knowing what to do with myself until the next day.

A young lady wanted me take some shots of her special day, supposed to be a very quiet wedding with no other people in the party other than the groom and some shots of family groups. Yeah, I can do that getting married at 2pm and time for a photoshoot afterwards. Week before wedding time changed to 12pm (aah, cannot cancel, oh well go with the flow and do my best). Emailed and explained the light would be an issue, but did not want to let them down. She was hard to pin down to meet, in the end I said I would not do the shoot, if I did not meet with them - so a quick meet week before the day.

Arrived on the big day, she said she would be dressed by 11.30, leaving at 11.50 I had to leave before them to get to the park. Ok, did the dress, macros on rings flowers etc. couple of the bride and the bridesmaid now in the wedding party. Just before I was leaving, she said "you need to be finished by 1.30pm "what, your getting married at 12 (she obviously would arrive late), I wont get shots, you said that we could go until 3.30-4ish" "that is it, there is another wedding there".

I left, was thirsty as (it was very hot) trying to get out of the suburb to head to the park - kept counting to myself saying "its okay Shelley, stay cool, turn the air conditioning on".

It gets worse - she was not interested in posing, kept moving away, wouldn't tuck her head in when I told her - I stopped for a minute and contemplated walking away. I had an assistant, who is very good in organising and arranging people for me, she was flabbergasted by the whole situation. I wont go into further detail. I quickly looked at my photos, and I do have some nice shots, but I know I could have done so much better.

I learned something - I will definitely lay out my terms for big events and if they choose not to use me, then that is fine by me.

But, also why did she want a photographer? Have you been in a situation, without naming, obviously that is beyond your control, would you have walked away.

[ricktas]

Ahhh. Bridezille is alive and well in WA.. :lol:

Next you will get the complaints about the photos you have taken. You are not alone Shelley.

[neil70]

yes next you will be the worst photographer on the planet, and all phototogs are just gold diggers and she could have done sooooooo much better with her p&s

some people are just so aghhhhhhhhhhhhh:lol2:

[Shelley]

lol, thanks I didn't dream that it could get even worse now. :)

[kiwi]

The more you charge the more you'll be valued I think (I'm assuming it was a low budget affair?)

Not much you can do with nasty people with little respect

[JM Tran]

ahhhh one of the reasons why I dont get out of bed for budget weddings:)

[jjphoto]

If I where you (the OP) I would make sure that every detail of the day, and how it differed to your understaning of how it would be, was diarised because the bride may blame you for the 'terrible' pictures. You need to be able to defend yourself if it comes to it. Bummer...

JJ

[Seabee]

The very reasons I refuse to do weddings!!!

I only do so for very close family and friends when I know it will be pleasant for me and all involved.
I will leave this Genre to the professionals who are passionate about it................for those that ask, I have a sock draw to tidy!! :D

[Shelley]

The more you charge the more you'll be valued I think (I'm assuming it was a low budget affair?)

Not much you can do with nasty people with little respect

Spot on Kiwi, I felt sorry for her, they have no money (I know that for sure) - so only charged a small amount to cover my time at the park. I only did that because I don't want to be known for freebies and a soft touch. I am a sucker for helping young kids and would not take advantage of them.

I was not going to the reception, she asked me afterwards and offered me more money, I said no as my husband was flying out to go overseas today.

I have upped my prices and people are paying for my photoshoots. Weddings, will have a higher price tag now, if I decide to accept another. I do have one - but that is different.

[kiwi]

You have to enjoy doing the under all conditions, mid day, hit, bridezillas and everything

[Shelley]

Enjoy hit bridezillas, lol. Ooops.

I learned that I can handle light under all conditions, but cannot handle bridezillas.......

[kiwi]

Hmm, hit = hot :p

[JM Tran]

Enjoy hit bridezillas, lol. Ooops.

I learned that I can handle light under all conditions, but cannot handle bridezillas.......

you have to if u want to play the wedding game and be taken seriously Shelley:)

[Shelley]

you have to if u want to play the wedding game and be taken seriously Shelley:)

Yes I know and I kept smiling. Its interesting as when I spoke to other photographers they all knew. My daughter who recently got married, was just gorgeous. I did prep her and her husband for the photographer.

[arthurking83]

Hmm, hit = hot :p


I thought 'hit' was more appropriate in this case! ;)

[jeffde]

Had 1 bridezilla - what saved me was the fact that the minister had a gripe to me about the couple - so did the reception venue - they also didn't like their hair and makeup and walked out without paying - Oh and as we arrived at the house a bridesmaid was walking out - I knew that it wasn't me - good that i had changed my terms to payment before the day....

Good reason to have a contract - and if someone wasn't prepared to meet with me i wouldn't have taken the job. I don't take every wedding - it has to be a fit for both of you - if their expectations are to high - i say no.

[Michaela]

Sounds like a nightmare, Shelley. :eek: Don't know if I'd ever be game enough to try a wedding. :p

[camerasnoop]

Then there's the couples who say "We don't want any posed photos. We just want you to photograph us enjoying the day". They're both as dull as dishwater and you could follow them around for ten years and still not catch them displaying any sign of love for each other, or any indication that they're enjoying the day. :Doh:

I also have had the one where the bride was too drunk to stand up for the photos and the groom went back to his room to get another bottle of spirits.

Or the one where the bride didn't want any photos of herself on her own.

Or the one where the bride saw me taking photos of one of the guests with her toddler, and came up and told me she didn't want any of those photos, so I better delete them.

Or the one where the mother started yelling at me telling me not to take any photos of her daughter (the bride) with her step-mother because, "She's not her mother. I am."

Is there a war story thread here?

[JM Tran]

Then there's the couples who say "We don't want any posed photos. We just want you to photograph us enjoying the day". They're both as dull as dishwater and you could follow them around for ten years and still not catch them displaying any sign of love for each other, or any indication that they're enjoying the day. :Doh:

I also have had the one where the bride was too drunk to stand up for the photos and the groom went back to his room to get another bottle of spirits.

Or the one where the bride didn't want any photos of herself on her own.

Or the one where the bride saw me taking photos of one of the guests with her toddler, and came up and told me she didn't want any of those photos, so I better delete them.

Or the one where the mother started yelling at me telling me not to take any photos of her daughter (the bride) with her step-mother because, "She's not her mother. I am."

Is there a war story thread here?

sounds like the 'budget' crowd u are working with there:)

[camerasnoop]

Absolutely JM, and I'm still too expensive for some of them.

[ameerat42]

And where did you say these came from? Fl:Doh:bbergasting!

[LJG]

Ah Shelley, aren't birds nice and easy haha I bet you'll never complain about birds not co-operating again :D The 2 weddings I have been to lately have both had sergeant major type toggers, you know the ones, don't dare bring your camera up from your side until you have their permission and if you are the bride or groom stand perfectly still, exactly how they tell you to - OR ELSE

[Shelley]

Yes Lloyd, birds are my passion in photography. I enjoy people stuff, but at times I need to step back. Its funny cause I like to watch and catch that moment, rather than pose, but do request couples stay close and get people to squash up, with heads on certain angles etc. Its the little things that make the photos pop I think.

I processed some photos and I am rather pleased with them, especially when I think about how I felt when taking them. I love photography and enjoy learning new stuff all the time.

[Shelley]

Had 1 bridezilla - what saved me was the fact that the minister had a gripe to me about the couple - so did the reception venue - they also didn't like their hair and makeup and walked out without paying - Oh and as we arrived at the house a bridesmaid was walking out - I knew that it wasn't me - good that i had changed my terms to payment before the day....

Good reason to have a contract - and if someone wasn't prepared to meet with me i wouldn't have taken the job. I don't take every wedding - it has to be a fit for both of you - if their expectations are to high - i say no.

Yes, yes, yes. I know that I can do weddings now, it was never meant to be a big affair and I was treating it more like a photoshoot, as I have turned down weddings. I was struggling to make them understand a pose I wanted, everyone was looking at me like I was on another planet - but thankfully I got the shot and I think they will like it.

[Wayne]

Similar to my one wedding experience that I did at no cost for a good mate. Worst photography experience I have had, and has reinforced my overwhelming desire not to do weddings despite being asked a number of times now.

[ricktas]

Maybe we need clauses in our wedding contracts that state:



12. Any hint of Bridezilla (as determined by the photographer)and the contract is null and void, and the photographer can pack up and leave,not supply any photos, not be held liable (legally or otherwise) for any lack of service, professionalism or any other agreed terms or conditions. For information on what is a Bridezilla *link to this thread*.


:lol2:

:beer_mug:

[JM Tran]

Maybe we need clauses in our wedding contracts that state:



12. Any hint of Bridezilla (as determined by the photographer)and the contract is null and void, and the photographer can pack up and leave,not supply any photos, not be held liable (legally or otherwise) for any lack of service, professionalism or any other agreed terms or conditions. For information on what is a Bridezilla *link to this thread*.


:lol2:

:beer_mug:

I already have that in the fine print in my contract, where I will leave if I receive verbal or physical abuse or other shenanigans. But after 4 years I have never seen any of that. It all depends on how you market yourself and what type of clients you attract really.

[Shelley]

I already have that in the fine print in my contract, where I will leave if I receive verbal or physical abuse or other shenanigans. But after 4 years I have never seen any of that. It all depends on how you market yourself and what type of clients you attract really.
I think also your experience helps and I certainly will be putting things into place to avoid this happening again. Its a first and fairly new for me.

Don't get me wrong she is a lovely girl, but I think very strong willed and used to getting her way. It was also 37 degrees - very hot outside. She was rude, but not abusive, just kept changing her mind.

I have to be honest and say I don't market myself, most of my work has been from clients contacting me and word of mouth.

When she contacts me my words to her will be something like "okay, what are your expectations from the photos and how did you think we went". I will be interested in her response. She also is very young.

The groom was lovely, nervous and gave me his attention, but he did adore his wife.

[Art Vandelay]

You are to be commended Shelley. I don't have much patience for crap & would of packed up and walked away. I guess that's why I wouldn't even try doing weddings and such. :lol:

Good on you for keeping it together.

[Bennymiata]

I wouldn't do a wedding for all the tea in China.
I do parties and corporate stuff though.

Weddings bring out the worst in people.
I guess that brides especially are very nervous and want the very best for the day and posing for photos is just a hinderance to them as they are so worried about a myriad of other things that photography is the last thing on their list.
They figure that they are spending good money on the tog, so he/she HAS to do a great job regardless.
Brides have so much to think about on the day and don't want the hassle of having to actually stop and pose, because they THINK that they have to look after every little thing about the wedding and reception.
I think it's rare that a bride can actually relax and enjoy their own wedding as most weddings are about showing off to their friends and family at how much they have spent and how much trouble they went to.
I've been to a number of weddings where they have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the wedding to make a big show, when they could have really used that money to put a deposit on a home, and I guess that would make me nervous too.

I pity wedding togs, I really do.
It's a very tough job.

[JM Tran]

I wouldn't do a wedding for all the tea in China.
I do parties and corporate stuff though.

Weddings bring out the worst in people.
I guess that brides especially are very nervous and want the very best for the day and posing for photos is just a hinderance to them as they are so worried about a myriad of other things that photography is the last thing on their list.
They figure that they are spending good money on the tog, so he/she HAS to do a great job regardless.
Brides have so much to think about on the day and don't want the hassle of having to actually stop and pose, because they THINK that they have to look after every little thing about the wedding and reception.
I think it's rare that a bride can actually relax and enjoy their own wedding as most weddings are about showing off to their friends and family at how much they have spent and how much trouble they went to.
I've been to a number of weddings where they have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the wedding to make a big show, when they could have really used that money to put a deposit on a home, and I guess that would make me nervous too.

I pity wedding togs, I really do.
It's a very tough job.



I dont see it as a tough job, nor do I pity other colleagues. Wedding photography is a special field, possibly the hardest to achieve within a day IMO. You are being tested for many things, such as your leadership, communications skills, initiative, spontaneity and decision making on the fly. Not to mention its a combination of landscape, portrait, glamour, photo-journalism, and other genres rolled into an 8 or 12 or longer hour day. You have to balance between when to capture the shot, or when to create shots out of nothing, by directing or by chance or visualisation.

I actually pity those that wont do it or cant do it, as it shows they are afraid of challenges or pushing further in their comfort zone and skills. Among many things, it is a test of your own character and strengths and weaknesses in industry.

[ameerat42]

I dont see it as a tough job, nor do I pity other colleagues...
I actually pity those that wont do it or cant do it, as it shows they are afraid of challenges or pushing further in their comfort zone and skills. Among many things, it is a test of your own character and strengths and weaknesses in industry.

Your statement describes an accomplishment. Along the way to achieving that people surely encounter all that has been said. Here they can state their cases for and against it.

A photographer is no less one if he or she does not do wedding photography.

Challenges come in many forms, as do comfort zones.

[JM Tran]

Your statement describes an accomplishment. Along the way to achieving that people surely encounter all that has been said. Here they can state their cases for and against it.

A photographer is no less one if he or she does not do wedding photography.

Challenges come in many forms, as do comfort zones.

I dont see it as an accomplishment, esp what I wrote. Most of us wedding photographers never do it long enough, or good enough to attain the status of a 'Master Photographer' - and it will always be a learning experience with every wedding that passes by.


A photographer is no less one if he or she does not do wedding photography.

Sorry I dont agree with that, some photography jobs and genres are simply easier and less challenging than others. Its a fact and common sense. Some genres require and/or demand more from the photographer, whereas some do not require much.

[ameerat42]

OK. But, as you have stated, "...its a fact and common sense..." is an assertion. I would agree that a wedding photographer requires many skills besides those of many other fields of photography, but does that means that if you are not a wedding photographer then skill in the other fields counts for less? To refer to your earlier post, here excerpted,

...I actually pity those that wont do it or cant do it, as it shows they are afraid of challenges or pushing further in their comfort zone and skills. Among many things, it is a test of your own character and strengths and weaknesses in industry...
why expend so much disheartenment over so many who might otherwise be blissfully enjoying their chosen method of pursuing photography?

[JM Tran]

OK. But, as you have stated, "...its a fact and common sense..." is an assertion. I would agree that a wedding photographer requires many skills besides those of many other fields of photography, but does that means that if you are not a wedding photographer then skill in the other fields counts for less? To refer to your earlier post, here excerpted,

why expend so much disheartenment over so many who might otherwise be blissfully enjoying their chosen method of pursuing photography?

please dont take it out of context, I dont need to expend any disheartening remarks. But what I do notice is the increasing number of people who tend to make wide ranging comments like - oh I dont do weddings because I cant stand such and such - so to me, I see it as because you dont know how to handle yourself and other people? The first person to blame for anything is yourself, external factors come after.


but does that means that if you are not a wedding photographer then skill in the other fields counts for less?

To me, Yes? I have done a few jobs in my formative years such as school formal photography studio shots, photos for carsales.com.au, even passport photos and office IDs. So yes, those skill sets involved in those jobs are less. I havent done Santa photography shots at shopping malls though, so cant comment on that one:)

[Mark L]

I actually pity those that wont do it or cant do it, as it shows they are afraid of challenges or pushing further in their comfort zone and skills. Among many things, it is a test of your own character and strengths and weaknesses in industry.

No need to pity me. I'm confident I could push my skills a little and get some reasonable wedding photos. But I don't have the people skills and patience etc to deal with everything that goes with producing results that people are, paying for and want. If that's my character, then you can consider it a weaknesses.

[Art Vandelay]

I actually pity those that wont do it or cant do it, as it shows they are afraid of challenges or pushing further in their comfort zone and skills. Among many things, it is a test of your own character and strengths and weaknesses in industry.

No need to pity me either as I also made one of the comments saying not interested in wedding photography.

I have plenty of achievements, goals, character tests, strengths (and weaknesses) in my regular occupation and sporting life. Photography is an outlet. Being an accomplished wedding photographer or not has no bearing on the items you mentioned.

[JM Tran]

No need to pity me either as I also made one of the comments saying not interested in wedding photography.

I have plenty of achievements, goals, character tests, strengths (and weaknesses) in my regular occupation and sporting life. Photography is an outlet. Being an accomplished wedding photographer or not has no bearing on the items you mentioned.

Good on you Art:) Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views and thats what makes AP a great, diverse place doesnt it. But, seeing as this IS about photography solely, your sporting achievements and what you have done in life, arent really related to photography, or weddings.

[Art Vandelay]

Good on you Art:) Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views and thats what makes AP a great, diverse place doesnt it. But, seeing as this IS about photography solely, your sporting achievements and what you have done in life, arent really related to photography, or weddings.

Exactly my point. The lack of interest in wedding photography doesn't automatically mean someone is afraid of challenges and what not. It just means they couldn't be bothered as they have many other challenges with a higher priority photography related or otherwise.. That's not character a flaw. It means it's not the pinnacle of photography to them as it is to you.

[JM Tran]

Exactly my point. The lack of interest in wedding photography doesn't automatically mean someone is afraid of challenges and what not. It just means they couldn't be bothered as they have many other challenges with a higher priority photography related or otherwise.. That's not character a flaw. It means it's not the pinnacle of photography to them as it is to you.

Well, everyone has differing standards and levels of pinnacles obviously. I think you and Ameeraat have missed my point, my comment was directed at those that HAVE done weddings before, not those that have never done it nor have any wish to - you can do whatever you like thats not really my problem or focus here. Lets not further take things out of context here and hijack Shelley's thread.

But i'll be straightforward with one comment - A day of Wedding Photography is a test of one's character and photographic and communications skills, under stress and fatigue. That is my opinion and that of many other people who have been there and done that and doing other things, those that have been there.

[KeeFy]

Remember i mentioned i was asked to cover my friend's wedding? It was hot and crammed to the brim as his house was flooded so they had it in his apartment in the city instead. There were a total of 4 photographers (myself inclusive) and 4 videographers and everyone was getting in each other's way! It was mayhem. I managed to get some pretty decent shots in the end tho but wrestling with the other photographers and videographers and people who wanted to take their own photos took a toll on my stamina. The whole even lasted from 2am till 10am. It was nuts! I've had too many incidents where i've anticipated and framed the shot perfectly only to have people step right in front of me to block it, or another photographer moving in from another angle to get into the shot as well.

I personally do think the life of a wedding photographer is a tough one... but to epitomise wedding photography is really taking it a bit too far out. :)