CPL, UV & ND - Filters for Sigma 10-20mm ?

[flossed]

Hi

I decided to buy the sigma 10-20mm lens for the canon mount today.....

I would like to get a UV Filter to protect the lens & i read that some CPL Filters will cause vignetting....
What about ND filters?

The filter size are 77mm

Any suggestions.....

Thanks

flossed

[arthurking83]

Due to the size difference between the front lens element and the filter ring itself, this lens doesn't vignette if a standard sized filter is placed on the lens. Even at the widest focal length(of 10mm).

Should make no difference if the filter is UV, ND, CPL or IR.

You may run into trouble if you stack multiple ND filters of standard filter thicknesses, so if you have the intention to do this, then maybe look for slimmer ND screw on filters.

If you plan on going with the Cokin P-series filter system, the normal 3 filter holder will vignette up to about 11.5mm, where the mechanical vignetting starts to give way and produces some light loss, and just past 12mm this is also gone too. The UWA single filter holder doesn't vignette at all by comparison.

This is on the slightly wider Nikon mount, so on your canon the focal lengths at which these issues will occur will be ever so slightly shorter.

[flossed]

Due to the size difference between the front lens element and the filter ring itself, this lens doesn't vignette if a standard sized filter is placed on the lens. Even at the widest focal length(of 10mm).

Should make no difference if the filter is UV, ND, CPL or IR.

You may run into trouble if you stack multiple ND filters of standard filter thicknesses, so if you have the intention to do this, then maybe look for slimmer ND screw on filters.

If you plan on going with the Cokin P-series filter system, the normal 3 filter holder will vignette up to about 11.5mm, where the mechanical vignetting starts to give way and produces some light loss, and just past 12mm this is also gone too. The UWA single filter holder doesn't vignette at all by comparison.

This is on the slightly wider Nikon mount, so on your canon the focal lengths at which these issues will occur will be ever so slightly shorter.

Thanks for the explanation......................

cheers

flossed

[dredi1975]

Hi,
I use UWA filter holder for Cokin P series ND grad filters on my sigma 10-20mm and as mentioned above there is no vigneting...however if you add UV or CPL or more than one ND (you would have to use standard holder then) it may cause some vigneting, Id reccommend investing in slim UV or CPL filters, Hoya and B+W has it in there range (bit expensive though), cant remember at the moment if any other producers have them.
This is very good lens and produces very good images, definatelly worth having!
Enjoy
Maciek

[Bennymiata]

No real need for a UV filter, so use your saved money on a good quality CPL and ND filters.
If you're not sure which ND filters you need, buy a variable one that will cover you for -2 to -8 stops.

As others have said, for lens this wide, go fo rthe slim mount filters to avoid vignetting.
Mind you, minor vignetting is no big deal and can easily be overcome in PP.

[dredi1975]

I agree there is no real need for a UV filter..... but my mate dropped his 10-20 sigma while changing lenses and only because he had UV on he still has it and uses it .... lens fell on the rock directly on the front element which luckily was protected by filter....so sometimes its good to have one on :)
cheaper to get new filter than new lens:D

[kiwi]

I agree there is no real need for a UV filter..... but my mate dropped his 10-20 sigma while changing lenses and only because he had UV on he still has it and uses it .... lens fell on the rock directly on the front element which luckily was protected by filter....so sometimes its good to have one on :)
cheaper to get new filter than new lens:D


It's highly unlikely that the UV filter played any part in that protection scenario - all he's done is wasted money on the UV filter to start with

[arthurking83]

It's highly unlikely that the UV filter played any part in that protection scenario - all he's done is wasted money on the UV filter to start with


Ditto!

If he had the lens hood on the correct way around, even the UV filter would have been protected.

Always protect the front of a lens with proper protection(ie. properly fitted lens hood) .... not pseudo protection.

[dredi1975]

in this situation highly likely it did play the part in that scenario as he didnt have lens hood on!

[flossed]

I have looked at kenko's Variable ND filter is it worth getting it?

http://www.kenkoglobal.com/ndx/index.html

or better off getting the cheapers ones with constant ND

Thanks

flossed

[kiwi]

in this situation highly likely it did play the part in that scenario as he didnt have lens hood on!

still highly unlikely if you think about the physics.

F=MA

[arthurking83]

LOL! Kiwi.
The only condition where I could foresee a filter 'protecting' the front lens element from an impact(such as this dropping onto rocks situation), is if the filter ring had sufficient thickness to eliminate the chance of the front element actually touching rock.
That is: those 12mm or so of the metal filter ring acting as a pseudo lens hood in stopping the lens touching ground.
The glass of the filter itself is pretty useless at protecting the front element. It's too thin and breaks easily on impact.


Those Kenko Vari ND's certainly look good, and Kenko has a good reputation for producing high quality filters and suchlike, so I think it'd be worth investigating .. but have you seen the prices of them! :eek:
I had a quick look on ebay and found a few at approx AU$500!!(77mm)
Note tho, that they are a new product from Kenko, and other manufacturers have had them for a few years now.
By comparison, a SingRay Vari-ND @ 77mm and slim ring type is US$390, or $340 for the standard ring.

Personally I've never found a need for ND filters myself, but I'm sure that one day I will, and I hate stuffing about with stacking filters if there is an alternative. So I see one of these in my future. Hopefully by then they'll come down to reasonable prices.

[Bennymiata]

I have a Singh-Ray variable thin mount, and it seems to work very well with no distortion that I can see.

I did a lot of reading up about these variable ND's before I bought it, and the S-R seems to be the one to go for.
Not cheap, but certainly a lot cheaper than buying 3 or 4 or 5 normal ND's.

As you're also in Sydney, send me a PM and we can get together and you can try it out if you like.

If you need to go to 6-8 stops, the main advantage with a variable ND is that you can compose and focus at -2, then turn the ring to get the amount of light reduction you want.
If you just put an 8 stop filter over the lens, you can't see anything through the viewfinder!

[dredi1975]

accidents happen dont they Kiwi??

[kiwi]

No, there are no such things as accidents, they are incidents caused by negligence

[dredi1975]

thats very good description of word : accident

[flossed]

I have a Singh-Ray variable thin mount, and it seems to work very well with no distortion that I can see.

I did a lot of reading up about these variable ND's before I bought it, and the S-R seems to be the one to go for.
Not cheap, but certainly a lot cheaper than buying 3 or 4 or 5 normal ND's.

As you're also in Sydney, send me a PM and we can get together and you can try it out if you like.

If you need to go to 6-8 stops, the main advantage with a variable ND is that you can compose and focus at -2, then turn the ring to get the amount of light reduction you want.
If you just put an 8 stop filter over the lens, you can't see anything through the viewfinder!

I went & buy it (Kenko Variable NDX) :) good price from DCW - Sydney.....

Thanks all

Cheers

flossed

[flossed]

Now i need some tips on how to use it....will be shooting landscape & seascape

Thanks much

flossed

[Caring]

I refer to LensTip.com who seem to be the only ones on the web who have done a qualitative comparison of a number of UV / CPL filter:

* removed - breach of site rule 4 *

Take it with a grain of salt. Personally, I use a combination of Hoya Pro1 D Super HMC UV (great light transmission, and multi-coated), Hoya HD UV (easy to clean, and the glass is heavy duty), and B+W KSM MRC CPL.

Most of my filters are ordered from MaxSaver.net which is often the cheapest, with free shipping. Yay!

[arthurking83]

The video of the HD range of filters from Hoya is interesting!!

These HD type filters certainly do look a lot stronger/tougher/more durable than the average 'protective' filter..

And LensTip!! that the damned site where I saw the polariser filter tests.

I can't vouch for their testing or results, only to say that the differences between my $200 Pro1D CPL and my other much cheaper CPLs is almost insignificant in terms of IQ, but a massive price difference between the low end and top end.
The only thing that makes the Pro1D nicer to use is if I get it dirty, where it's much easier to get clean. The coating do seem to help with cleaning, where the cheaper quality hoya CPLs I have seem to require more effort, or more care in cleaning to get them completely streak free.

[Caring]

The video of the HD range of filters from Hoya is interesting!!

The only thing that makes the Pro1D nicer to use is if I get it dirty, where it's much easier to get clean. The coating do seem to help with cleaning, where the cheaper quality hoya CPLs I have seem to require more effort, or more care in cleaning to get them completely streak free.


It's not every day that ball bearings will hit the front of your lens. But my thoughts were that if it could withstand that, then I could clean the glass with anything I wanted (shirt, toilet paper, even printing paper) without scratching the glass.

For some reason, I have the opposite experience with my Pro1Ds (which prompted me to get the HDs). I often check the filter, see the dust / dirt and think "no!! must clean it". But once I put the microfibre cloth on it, the residue then smears out into long streaks all over the glass, "noooooooo!".

[arthurking83]

....
For some reason, I have the opposite experience with my Pro1Ds (which prompted me to get the HDs). I often check the filter, see the dust / dirt and think "no!! must clean it". But once I put the microfibre cloth on it, the residue then smears out into long streaks all over the glass, "noooooooo!".

Oh! that's weird.

The only real reason I haven't rid myself of this close to useless filter is that it cleans so easily.
Is your cleaning cloth 'clean'?

Anyhow this shouldn't make too much difference I think, as I've used the same cloth for nearly three years now, and I get these streaks on my normal CPLs, and drudge though the process of carefully cleaning the cheaper filters, but with the same cloth the Pro1D cleans so much more effortlessly.. both in the amount of force required on the glass itself and the number of times I have to wipe around and around and around ...... and around again to finally remove the last streak.

Another point I seem to have noted too, is that my 62mm filter(used for the macro lens) is harder again to clean than the 67mm CPL I have(for the standard range zoom lenses I also have), but the 62mm is one step higher in the Hoya range than the lowest of the lows which is the 67mm CPL.

67mm is the lowest Hoya in Purple packaging
62mm is slightly higher in the multicoated range in a grey packaging
77mm Linear polariser is about 20 yo and cost about $40 way back then
77mm Pro1D works well, but at $200 it bloddy well should!
It's very annoying to use tho and to store too.
Because it's the ultra slim type with no front threads, and barely 1mm of front ring, you can't attach it to another filter and then cap them off in some way to protect them from transit trashing, so I have to store it in my Cokin filter case. Problem with this is that when the hands are numb with frost bite early morning, I can easily drop it or mishandle it and get either dirt/grass/dew marks on it, or finger prints on it from trying not to drop it. And they wipe off easily within a few circular motions.

the 62mm sometimes seems so hard to get it perfectly clean(as I generally tend to do with all my filters when I can, or if the need calls for it) and on two occasions now I've accidentally separated the two parts of the filter as the retaining ring has obviously loosened enough to allow this.
I think I've now fixed it by 'stretching' the ring to make it a tighter fit onto the outer bezel.

my fave is the old Linear Pol.
People say that you shouldn't use them for AF lenses, or that it affects metering or whatever other rubbish they want too, but from my experience with it over the past 6 years, none of those problems have ever surfaced on my two 77mm lenses(10-20mm and 70-200mm).

In the next few weeks I'm going to get a series of these Marumi CPL's I may have mentioned either here or elsewhere just for another set, as I have way too many lenses, and they're sometimes buried deep within the bag. Soemtimes it's just easier to have one CPL for each lens, where it's removed on those occasions where the filter is of no help. The lens cap stays on the filter and the filter is unscrewed. This way when the filter is required, it's already there.

The only lens that doesn't really need a CPL is my son's 18-105VR. If he ever asks for one, there will be one somewhere for him to use.
(now he has polarised sunnies, he understands how effective a polariser can be)

[Caring]

Oh! that's weird.

The only real reason I haven't rid myself of this close to useless filter is that it cleans so easily.
Is your cleaning cloth 'clean'?


Yep, clean cloth. I also often use a LensPen. I reckon that whilst multicoat might improve IQ, some coatings may clean better and others may smudge better.




Because it's the ultra slim type with no front threads, and barely 1mm of front ring, you can't attach it to another filter and then cap them off in some way to protect them from transit trashing, so I have to store it in my Cokin filter case.


Me too! The B+W MRC KSM Slim CPL is a pain because of that too. That one does come with a suction cap, and it really does suck - as in it simply must fall off the filter by the time you have deposited your camera into your bag. So in the end the filter cannot be left on the lens.

You know... B+W has released a new XS-PRO series that is ultra-slim but yet has a front thread (not really sure how it defies space and time continuum). However, the price tag is a balls-breaker.