Recommendations for Setting Up a Photography Website

[Goatch]

Hi Guys , I am after any advice or recommendations about who to contact to setup a Website for my small Photography business , I have had a lot of interest in my Speedway Photos and have sold a lot of prints but am sure that this would increase tenfold if I had a website that prospective clients could visit to view my other work , any help appreciated greatly .

[kiwi]

Photomerchant, zenfolio, DIY ?

[DSG]

Personally I use Smugmg, and for some framed work I use redbubble as I don't like the framing options from smugmug

[sufran]

Dan, how does that work re prints in that, I understand, Smugmug is US based. Are the prints and products sent direct to clients from the US? If so, at what stage is shipping included in the prices listed? How soon do clients receive their goods after ordering? Have you had any issues with ensuring quality control? thanks.

[DSG]

#1 Smugmug
As far as mailing prints go you have 2 choices, you can get them sent straight to the client, or you can get them sent to you and you can pass them on, and yes they are sent from the US. I just had an order that was printed and shipped within 24 hours of the order being placed. The shipping is on top of the price of the print but in this day and age that is quite common and acceptable to clients. As far as postage prices, there are options given for fast via courier (within 7 days) or normal airmail which states up to 21 days but is usually under 14 days. The other reason I like smugmug is that I can set a price for downloading the digital file for a price, a lot of people use this option

#2 Redbubble (only used for framed works)
As far as redbubble is concerned the print quality from them is pretty good and I have never had an issue, I just let the client know that if they want framed prints straight from me to use the link I provide to Redbubble. I also make sure that only the framed options are available for purchase from redbubble when I upload an image to ensure that the majority of sales go through smugmug. The mail time from redbubble can go out to about 3 weeks in some cases though which is also another reason to have a backup.

Hope this helped.

[DSG]

Oh and 1 more thing that I like about smugmug is that I can lock down a gallery with a password so that only the client and I can see them.

[kiwi]

I found direct fulfillment expensive, and the lack of aud currency restrictive with smughug, but hey, that was awhile ago.

I do it DIY, my own website hosting via servage.net which has a vvery dumb user website builder and autoinstaller of gallery3 and it works fine for me and only costs me I think $9 a month all up.

I have integrated shopping cart and PayPal but I personally manage the fulfillment which unless you are selling 100's of orders a weekend is no biggie

[Wayne]

I use Smugmug because the features, support and range of options is astounding with lightning fast back end through Amazon. The downsides for me have been noted by DSG and Kiwi in that orders are filled from the USA, and they take a small commission making it overall a bit more costly both to you and the customer once freight is added, as opposed to taking the order via your own site and organising prints through your local printer here where print prices will likely be a little lower, freight cheaper, no commission and faster fulfilment.

My biggest Smugmug gripe along with most non-USA based users, and one which Smugmug are addressing after many many complaints and several years of resistance is lack of currency options. Alot of people go to your smugmug site via your re-directed domain and think all is great, so they view and order their prints, only to discover that when they go to pay, the prints are priced in $US, and their credit card will be charged in $US.

This not only scares them off because they pay in a currency they are not familiar with, and it's an unknown 3rd party charging them from the other side of the planet, but most Aussie banks will levy a currency conversion fee to the credit card user for charges made in non $AUD, further adding to the cost.

I have sold a few prints from my site to Aussies, but I have received a fair number of emails and complaints from people who wanted to buy, but changed their minds when they realised it was all printed, mailed, charged in the USA. Once multi-currency pricing is implemented, it will eliminate the biggest downside of Smugmug for many non-USA based users.

Despite the drawbacks, I have looked at local solutions, and found they offer much less in way of features, interface, presentation (which can be widely customised).
I found most, particularly Photomerchant to be very slow to load, to the point it is frustrating even for a patient person (which I'm not), and there would be nothing more annoying to many I think than wanting to look at pics only to find it takes 10 secs+ to load each image at a decent size for viewing and appreciation.

[kiwi]

Not to mention that if you are doing direct fulfillment you have to load all the photos up full res which for sport or event photography would be a killer for me anyhow

[Wayne]

Not to mention that if you are doing direct fulfillment you have to load all the photos up full res which for sport or event photography would be a killer for me anyhow
That is one way to do it, but not necessarily the best way if you have limited or slow internet uploads.

With Smugmug, you can upload whatever size you like in say 72px res, and then if an order is placed, you can set the option to alert you, and then you will need to upload the full res version. It's quick and painless if you are not selling big volumes, but for large and very regular volumes, it would be a pain either doing the uploading twice, or using all of your bandwidth.

[kiwi]

Right, thanks Wayne, wasn't sure how smug worked

[DSG]

It's quick and painless if you are not selling big volumes, but for large and very regular volumes, it would be a pain either doing the uploading twice, or using all of your bandwidth.

Lets put Bandwidth into perspective. A 300dpi file as JPEG (Smug only takes JPEG and PNG?) is no bigger than 12MB sometimes 14MB but not often, most average out around the 10MB. Thats 100 files per Gig of bandwidth. I personally have 200 offpeak and 200 peak usage for under $80 a month and would think that if you were trying to run a business over the internet with any success that would be a minimum, thats 4000 images a month. I also think that if you had the need to upload anymore than 4000 images a month you would be getting into the realms of having your own server setup and wouldnt be using a site like Smugmug anyway.

Oh plus my ISP dosnt count Uploads into monthly usage, only downloads :)



Not to mention that if you are doing direct fulfillment you have to load all the photos up full res which for sport or event photography would be a killer for me anyhow

I would have actualy thought this would have made it easier for you, take photos, batch process, upload, pass link and passwords to gallery to client, go make a coffee and wait for them to get back to you or to make a purchase. No phone calls, no emails from clients, no confusion over which image they want, no appointments taking up more of your time to select images.

[DSG]

Darren if I could also just point out that on your website none of your images are "right clcik save as" protected, and if "saved as" come up in PS with a print res of 240ppi. You may loose a lot of business to the average sporting parent because of this fact. With a quick image resize at 240dpi, to an 8 inch longest side in PS I could get a very printable image from your site, in fact I could zoom in to 300% before it even showed a pixel. Could I suggest that if your galleries are purely for browsing and ordering that you change the Dpi to 72 on your uplaods, will make for unprintable "right click save as images". Or find a way to prevent "right click save as" on your galleries.

[kiwi]

Tks, didn't realise they load at tha dpi, but images of sale typically have large watermarks and are only small. But I'll look at that further.

Re images for fulfillment, I can shoot 1000-2000 images a day and in full res on th D3 they are big files, and I upload them from home on not tha fast a connection.

[camerasnoop]

I have a site hosted on a Netregistry cloud server account. Costs me $29.95 per month from memory. Unlimited storage. I have in excess of 20GB of galleries up there now, mostly sporting events. I bought a Shopping Cart solution from http://www.photographyorders.com/ (Aussie bloke from Shepparton) for around $200. He'll write your site and host if for you too if you want. Whilst not an ideal customised solution, it does work and importantly, it looks good to clients. They can obtain downloads by email link once payment clears. It can be a bit quirky, but it does process PayPal payments very efficiently.

If you don't want to go third-party and want to retain control, (and I am a control-freak) then it is worth a look. You simply upload it as either a Public or Private Gallery (UID and Password required for Private), and put a link to the gallery in a web page, and hey presto - done!

if I can do it, anybody can do it. Trust me. :lol:

[Tommo1965]

i went for a smugmug account..but i dont sell any images..its purely for my own hosting requirements as I find flicker has too many adds....I did try Zenfolio for a week..it seemed really good and it did have a self fulfillment option...something id have to insist on if I were doing for profit..

Zenfolios backend seem a little more complex than sumgmug...but nothing the average users couldn't master...also I think there's mobs about the will set up either a smugmug or zenfolio site for you depending on your needs and wants

[Wayne]

Lets put Bandwidth into perspective. A 300dpi file as JPEG (Smug only takes JPEG and PNG?) is no bigger than 12MB sometimes 14MB but not often, most average out around the 10MB. Thats 100 files per Gig of bandwidth. I personally have 200 offpeak and 200 peak usage for under $80 a month and would think that if you were trying to run a business over the internet with any success that would be a minimum, thats 4000 images a month. I also think that if you had the need to upload anymore than 4000 images a month you would be getting into the realms of having your own server setup and wouldnt be using a site like Smugmug anyway.

Oh plus my ISP dosnt count Uploads into monthly usage, only downloads :)







Smugmug hosts RAW, and 1080 video too, so huge files if thats what you want to play with.
Not everyone everywhere has the same deals from their ISP.

An example, at home in Sydney I have Bigpond cable @ 30Mb/1Mb with 50GB of usage at full speed before slowing to 128kb both ways, and uploads are counted. I like the 30Mb speed, and despite DSL being advertised at up to 22Mb, the attenuation, distance from exchange etc mean in reality probably not much above 13-15Mb, so cable suits me well.

At home in Mount Isa, there is no cabled area, only DSL, and Telstra have the only exchange, which last year had some 2+ ports installed. Previously you could only get 8mb. Here Telstra offer the same usage as in Sydney at the same price, however the line speed although theoretically possible to achieve 22Mb down, is not more than about 4-8Mb depending on time of day etc, simply due to distance from exchange, poor condition and old copper in the whole place. Upload being only theoretical at 512kb is realistically little above 200kb most of the time. Given the poor value in recent times of Telstra's bandwidth, I have used several other ISP's who wholesale from Telstra to achieve more bandwidth at a lower price.

Sounds great in theory, but despite being cheaper to use another ISP through Telstra's infrastructure, often the backhaul is atrociously slow, making for an even more frustrating experience.

So while some places have the benefits of more high speed bandwidth for less $$, that surely is not the case everywhere, especially when you consider alot of places in Australia (some even in major capital cities) don't have anything but access to wireless such as NextG etc, so no DSL, no Cable and much lower bandwidth limits with much higher costs.

Try uploading 100/10MB images on some of these services... I can tell you it sometimes takes a while, so imagine a 5 min 1080P video or uploading those files as raws.

[DSG]

Smugmug hosts RAW, and 1080 video too, so huge files if thats what you want to play with.
Not everyone everywhere has the same deals from their ISP.

An example, at home in Sydney I have Bigpond cable @ 30Mb/1Mb with 50GB of usage at full speed before slowing to 128kb both ways, and uploads are counted. I like the 30Mb speed, and despite DSL being advertised at up to 22Mb, the attenuation, distance from exchange etc mean in reality probably not much above 13-15Mb, so cable suits me well.

At home in Mount Isa, there is no cabled area, only DSL, and Telstra have the only exchange, which last year had some 2+ ports installed. Previously you could only get 8mb. Here Telstra offer the same usage as in Sydney at the same price, however the line speed although theoretically possible to achieve 22Mb down, is not more than about 4-8Mb depending on time of day etc, simply due to distance from exchange, poor condition and old copper in the whole place. Upload being only theoretical at 512kb is realistically little above 200kb most of the time. Given the poor value in recent times of Telstra's bandwidth, I have used several other ISP's who wholesale from Telstra to achieve more bandwidth at a lower price.

Sounds great in theory, but despite being cheaper to use another ISP through Telstra's infrastructure, often the backhaul is atrociously slow, making for an even more frustrating experience.

So while some places have the benefits of more high speed bandwidth for less $$, that surely is not the case everywhere, especially when you consider alot of places in Australia (some even in major capital cities) don't have anything but access to wireless such as NextG etc, so no DSL, no Cable and much lower bandwidth limits with much higher costs.

Try uploading 100/10MB images on some of these services... I can tell you it sometimes takes a while, so imagine a 5 min 1080P video or uploading those files as raws.

I do understand this. It really does come down to the individual as to what kind of web hosting they choose based on the things we have all discussed in this thread. :th3:

[kiwi]

also it comes down to $ - what does it cost to host, direct fulfil, get printed at local lab, postage etc compared to revenue as part of an overall pricing strategy.

[Sobriquet]

fotobarn works by you sending them a disc and they do the rest, it might be a good option if you are busy, personally I don't like them but I know togs who use them (I believe they are in melbourne)

[Goatch]

Thanks everyone for their input , has been a very lively discussion with some varied views which are always welcome , bugger, still not sure which way to go !!