When the amateur out does the venue's pro tog

[bdparker]

Scene 1:

Its the schools year 12 final mass and dinner (for which I am a part of) and I am the school unofficial tog.
I get into the school hall where the mass is being held and setup at the back.
There are heaps of parents there with cameras (as you would expect).
A couple of them are seated in front of me are having trouble setting up their cameras and as for help, I did my best, but at the same time, I inform them that all my photos will available to all the students on the schools network, at no cost.

When the mass is finished and everyone heads to the venue where the dinner is held, I get a lift with the principle and ask him if there where going to be any presentations, and he asks why? I ask him if soneone could say something about where the students could find my photos because some of the parents where asking for a copy and there might be other who may want them.

Scene 2:

We get to the venue a little later than the majority of the students and their parents, and who do I see when I get inside, but two pro tog taking photos of everyone coming.

So I ask the Principle and the school's PR rep if they hire the pro togs, other wise I would leave my kit in the bag and let them do all the work. But they say no and no idea who they are and they probable came with the venue.

So I say fine and start shooting everything, include doubling a lot of group shots the pro shoots, and inform those that I shoot that mine are free....

I could see the pro getting a little tense, but the best was about to announced.

The announcements beging.....

The head of year 12 department gets up and say that the photographers (pro togs) will be around for a hour if they wish to have the photo taken.

Then principle get up and say.... That all the photos that (I) take, will available on the schools network FOR FREE, if they wish to have their photo taken.

OOPS, there goes the pro tog's profit for the night, and I start to had fun.

[statitica]

I wouldn't call that outdoing the pro.

Outdoing the pro would mean you got better shots, and we'd need to see samples of both to compare.

Otherwise, you've just gotten in the way, and possibly cut into his profits (without making anything yourself).

[98kellrs]

Not exactly sure what the point of this story is? I don't think what you did was "out-doing" the event tog, you merely undercut them. :confused013

EDIT: Consider this; photographers improve most by learning from other photographers. What you have done is try to please the subjects (by offering cheap images) and annoyed the event tog. You could have been talking to the event tog and learning. It is only by interacting with other togs in a positive manner that you will find that more opportunities (guidance, assisting them, 2nd shootering at an event etc) may be presented to you, from which you can learn and develop.

[kiwi]

groan :Doh:

[flame70]

I only read this as i had no idea that an armature (a skeletal framework built as a support on which a clay, wax, or plaster figure is constructed.- one of three definitions) could outdo a pro-tog but after several rereads you meant Amateur - Gee your first port of call should be a spell checker and then perhaps a reality check to see why you might be unpopular with the pro's.

[Kym]

I think the education system needs help - spelling corrected in title :D

As said already... the quality of the work is what is at stake.
When my son was racing BMX they had a pro-tog taking images at the state titles, all other photography was banned.

[ricktas]

So did you ever find out if the Professional Photographers came with the venue etc, cause there may be some T&C related to use of the venue that restrict what you can do with your photos. I would be investigating that before putting them on the school network for 'free', and then finding a nice letter from a lawyer demanding several $'000 dollars from you.

[bdparker]

If the School has no idea who these two togs were and chooses to bring their own tog to a reception centre, then who has right of way?

FYI. on the point of spelling. the AP spell checker did not work, and the ieSpell plugin is playing up, it adds the corrected word into the incorrect word .... so yes I did try to spell check.

[ricktas]

If the School has no idea who these two togs were and chooses to bring their own tog to a reception centre, then who has right of way?

Depends on the venues entry T&C, just like your house, they can say what is allowed and not allowed within their premises.


FYI. on the point of spelling. the AP spell checker did not work, and the ieSpell plugin is playing up, it adds the corrected word into the incorrect word .... so yes I did try to spell check.

AP doesn't have a spell checker, and never has had one. Any spell checking has to be done at the user end, whether manually reading through your post or using a spell checker add-on for your browser.

[ricktas]

So lets do a role play here.

10 years time and you are the professional photographer, your sole method of generating an income is from your photography business. You organise with a venue to be their official photographer for events held at that venue. You do quite well out of the arrangement, along with providing you a regular income stream for your business, it lets you feed your family each night.

Now you have a few school events scheduled at this time of the year and you are happy cause the winter months have been a bit quiet and you need to get your income up to make sure you remain in profit for the first 6 months of the year, and you are relying on the good times ahead till Christmas to generate enough to recover from the quiet winter and put some aside so that next winter you can deal with the off-season more readily.

So you turn up with your paid second shooter, and setup ready to take the photos, when some amateur comes along and shoots beside, near you. You then find out that the said amateur is giving their photos away for free. There goes half your income from the evening, if people don't care that the quality of work produced isn't quite up to Pro standard.

How would you feel if this was YOU, and someone posted on a site gloating how they ruined your income from the event?

With respect, gloating that you 'had fun' taking away someone else's business livelihood by giving your photos away from free, is not going to get you any respect from AP members.

[Kym]

AP doesn't have a spell checker, and never has had one. Any spell checking has to be done at the user end, whether manually reading through your post or using a spell checker add-on for your browser.

The best spell & grammar checking is an educated human mind :Doh:

[bdparker]

Ok... Mea culpa

I stay away from what was going to be their main stuff, all the formal shot they setup at the start, I didn't both with any of the table stuff that they went around and did. the shots 'I had fun with' was the informa group shots, that the boys had fun with.


But Rick, in the text tool bar above this edit text box isn't there an icon that say 'spell check', between ther two 'Wrap' icon blocks?

[98kellrs]

It's a link to the ieSpell Internet Explorer plugin which only works if you have that specific plugin installed.

Your OP was a bit vague, and mocking those who do sell their images won't sit well on this forum, where many of the members sell their work in one way or another. I think what you are trying to tell us is that you had a great night taking photos at an event and you enjoyed the challenges posed by taking candid group portraits in an indoor setting. You then showed some of your work to some of the parents and they praised your efforts and wanted copies.

In that case well done! :th3: It's a great feeling when someone shows appreciation for your efforts, and you should definitely post up some of your favourites in the Member's Photos section. That way you can recieve some CC to help you improve composition, technique, post-processing etc. :)

[kiwi]

no, in fact the op was really saying he was giving away all of his photos in spite of the professionals.

How else can you read ?

"OOPS, there goes the pro tog's profit for the night, and I start to had fun."

and most damming of all

"So I say fine and start shooting everything, include doubling a lot of group shots the pro shoots, and inform those that I shoot that mine are free....

I could see the pro getting a little tense, but the best was about to announced."

[98kellrs]

I took post #12 as an admission that he recognised his attitude in the OP was wrong. So moving past that I tried to decipher the point of the thread, which under all the BS I think was that he was proud of himself for taking photos at an event. As such, rather than just condem him, I tried to encourage the right attitude and encourage him to contribute to the forum in a more constructive way.

[bdparker]

when I told the boys that mine were free, then stop being serious, and started being them selves and had fun with it. thats what i ment.

[bdparker]

Look... I sincerely apologies to all pro photographers, what I said wasn't what I entirely what I wanted to say and i can't change the BS I wrote and think I committed AP suicide do so.

on two points please, I am dyslexic and my spelling is alway bad, and what I write isn't always what I would like it to mean. (this doesn't mean abandon the BS that I said to momentary laps of sanity). But it is why I don't post that often, because i don't alway say what I am thinking.

I acknowledge all replays that I have received.

Sorry guys.

[kiwi]

Apology accepted, no worries, but please don't give photos away for free when someone is there trying to earn some $$$$ and then gloat about it.

I don't really care about the spelling, and my wifes dyslexic so I know how hard it is

Keep at it

[ricktas]

Thread closed at thread starter's request.