A Photography Competition

[Tommo224]

Hey all!

I just entered 5 shots in to this photography competition.

Thought that I would both, make you aware of it if you want to enter too, and also in hope of receiving some votes on my photos!

Registration is free and takes 20secs and you can win $1000 just by voting. And if you enter as well you go in the running to win a share of $14k in prizes :)

You can vote for more than one photo!


My photos, share yours and I'll vote in return!
http://www.centronepean.com.au/smile/Image.php?pid=MzI3ODM
http://www.centronepean.com.au/smile/Image.php?pid=MzI3ODQ
http://www.centronepean.com.au/smile/Image.php?pid=MzI3ODk
http://www.centronepean.com.au/smile/Image.php?pid=MzI4MDI
http://www.centronepean.com.au/smile/Image.php?pid=MzI4MDU

[Ms Monny]

Great photos! I voted but I am not putting any of mine in. :o :D

Good luck with the competition.

[Cattleprod]

I had a look at some of the leading entries, the vast majority of which are absolute rubbish.

It's amazing how biased it has become towards people who have the most 'friends' on social networking sites... A 14 year old could submit an out of focus shot of his dogs bum and get 10 times as many votes as a decent image, all because he has the most people that will blindly vote for him.

Maybe I'm just getting a bit old and cynical, but this kind of 'competition' isn't to my liking.
That being said, I did vote for your photo of the dogs, I thought it was pretty cool.

Just my 20c worth, no offence intended :)

[flame70]

Looks like centro gets your copyright though....
At the point of online submission of the Entry, Entrants consent (and
agree to use their best endeavours to procure an relevant third parties
to consent) to the Promoter using their Photograph in connection
with promotion the Competition or anything in future on a royalty free,
unconditional and in perpetuity basis.
50. In these terms and conditions, “Intellectual Property Rights” means all
present and future rights of whatever nature anywhere in the world
including, but not limited to, rights in respect of or in connection with
copyright, inventions (including patents), trademarks, service marks, trade
names, domain names, designs, confidential information, trade secrets
and know-how and similar industrial, commercial and intellectual property
rights, whether or not registered or registrable, and includes the right to
apply for the registration of such rights, and whether existing in Australia
or otherwise. “Laws” means all laws including rules of common law,
principles of equity, statutes, regulations, proclamations, ordinances, bylaws,
rules, regulatory principles and requirements, statutory rules of
an industry body, statutory mandatory codes of conduct, writs, orders,
injunctions, judgments, and generally accepted Australian accounting
principles.
51. By entering this Competition, an Entrant warrants to the Promoter:
a) that they have the authority and all permissions necessary to submit their
entry;
b) that they own the content of their Entry in any way for use in any
media worldwide and have the right to assign such copyright ownership
in perpetuity and other Intellectual Property Rights in the Entry to the
Promoter;


Another i'll have your photos for free :eek:

[fillum]

It's amazing how biased it has become towards people who have the most 'friends' on social networking sites... These types of comps aren't really about the photography.

But if people get a bit of fun out of participating then good luck to them...




Cheers.

[Tommo224]

There are 58 "public popularity" prizes for the most popular images, and then there is a National prize which is judged by them and is judged on the artyness and how they can make them smile (lol) for monies, and that isn't based on how many votes it got.

I thought it was a bit of fun, and entertained me for a good half an hour while I went through and picked some photos haha..

Thanks for your votes guys :)

[Cattleprod]

Yeah I guess I'm being too nasty, photography should be fun, and if people have fun with this, then good on them :th3:

[fillum]

Yeah I guess I'm being too nasty, photography should be fun, and if people have fun with this, then good on them :th3:Your first post makes quite a valid point and I certainly didn't read it as nasty. If you consider the Canon Photo5 comp for example which many take fairly seriously, judges pick the finalists but the ultimate winners are then picked by popular vote so "getting the word out" can certainly be a big factor in it.




A 14 year old could submit an out of focus shot of his dogs bumI think out of focus might be a good thing here :D.


Cheers.

[Longshots]

Yes well even in fun if you want to give your work away, then thats your choice

However, while its all "fun", remember that we shape the world we want to live in, so I have no problems with people choosing to personally support these things, but as the members here are all interested in photography, I personally object to blatant promotion of a competition which has really dreadfully unfair terms and conditions and uses other intellectual and creative property to promote a simple and straight forward commercial organisation - ie this is a business, they invest very little and gain a great deal in return. As far a competitions go, this has huge benefits for the organisers, is very very cheaply produced; and while it looks like "fun", with no disrespect intended, you have no idea what you're opening yourself up for.

The organisers, when approached, have ignored all requests to adapt their terms and conditions from the current draconian situation to something that would be a little fairer to all parties. Believe me, I've tried.

I trust that you (the OP) have read the T&C properly ? And of course have all of the talent/people in your shots suitably "model released" ? Other wise I would ensure that you have some good legal protection if any of them turn around and change their minds if Centro or any other companies that you have agreed to give access to the image, use the image, and they then want something for it being successful/used -FYI, here's that relevant term:


Entrants are solely responsible for any costs associated with entering
into the Competition and shall be solely liable for any Intellectual Property
Right claim or any other causes of action in relation to their Entry into the
Competition.



this one as well is a worry:


Entrants agree to indemnify the Promoter (including its related entities)
and its respective officers, employees, contractors and agents for any
loss or damage whatsoever which is suffered (including but not limited
to indirect or consequential economic loss), for personal injury suffered
or sustained, or from any legal action by a third party, as a result of the
Entrant’s Photograph.

This one is comical, if it wasnt so brazen in the audacity by the promoter:


At the point of online submission of the Entry, Entrants consent (and
agree to use their best endeavours to procure an relevant third parties
to consent) to the Promoter using their Photograph in connection
with promotion the Competition or anything in future on a royalty free,
unconditional and in perpetuity basis.

"Anything in future" - hmm that just about covers it doesnt it ? Anything, anyhow, anywhere. Simple, effective and unbelievable.

Now remember this isnt just for the winners - this is for all entrants !

A hypothetical situation for you to consider - Remember that lovely shot of Uncle Kevin walking hand in hand\ down the beach with his nephew ? Dont be surprised when that same shot is used in a "Look Out for Paedophiles" campaign. Think you can stop it - nope too late. Stable door cant be closed - horse has bolted - and the next thing you should look out for is Uncle Kev's legal claim. Hey you agreed to all of this - not him !

Oh now what else should you be worried about ? Hmm of the top of my head, here is another random pick:


that their Entry does not contain content that has been used in previous
marketing materials or Competitions for any third party or where any third
party has been granted use of that content for any purpose whatsoever,
including commercial purposes;

So that means you cant have entered it into anywhere else - oh and you cant enter it into anything else in the future - which means you cant use it on your own site/online portfolio/here.

Tell me as an entrant, what sane person would agree to this type of "fun" ?


What I love about this competition is that its so much less about photography and so much more about getting personal information from you, and then being able to sell or use (yes your personal information/profile has a value), and most entrants never even read this one:


By partaking in the Competition, Entrants agree that the Promoter may
use information provided on the online entry form in clause 3(c) or in
connection with claiming any Prize in accordance with Centro’s Privacy
Collection Statement, to assist the Promoter in improving goods and
services and to contact the Entrant (via any medium) in the future regarding
information on special offers or to provide the Entrant with marketing
materials or share the information with its related entities or promotional
partners. A copy of Centro’s Privacy Policy Collection Statement wil be
available for viewing online at ----- removed their link - I refuse to assist]

Oh and finally, if you think that the organisers are committed to handing out any prizes - this is a great get out clause for them, that is rare to see in photographic competitions (and I assess/check over 300-400 competitions a year, and this is one of the worst!!) :


If the Competition cannot be run or the Prize(s) is unavailable for whatever
reason, the Promoter reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to cancel,
terminate, modify or suspend the Competition, subject to any applicable
statutory requirements.

So sure, enter by all means, but frankly while its your opinion that its merely a bit of fun, my opinion is quite the opposite. Its irresponsible to offer any more publicity to this outrageously bad "competition".

An appalling competition which as the PhotoWatchDog, I seriously warn people from entering.

Read those terms and conditions very very carefully.


Oh and one very important PS

To those of you who have voted - hey guess what ?

You also Give the organisers your personal information - name, phone number, mobile, email, postcode - wow now thats wonderful, you're then on yet another mailing list and can be profiled and that information bought and sold as a commodidity. Fantastic really, you have to hand it to the organisers that not only do they get images, which are being used in Centro Shopping Centre marketing material, adverts, billboards and advertising hoardings (for free); but also and probably more importantly they gain a huge ability to profile those who enter and vote, but have that as a commodity or asset which can be used/sold to anyone else.

So while I like some of your shots (real shame that you cant use them for anything else now, or enter them into anything else - winner or not), I'm afraid I wont be voting for any of them. But then again I'm not going to vote for anything in this competition ;)

Like I said, read the TERMS and CONDITIONS - even if its just for voting !

[ricstew]

Holy Moly :eek: it pays to read the fine print.....so They can have my picture do with it what they want, not get sued if someone wants to sue me over the use at any time now or in the future .....never sign a model release, never allow me to use my picture for anything else and get out of giving me a prize......well holy S*$t Batman.......they are not getting mine :)
Thanks William........
cheers
Jan

[Longshots]

Ricstew - to be brief - yes. And you also are agreeing to indemnify them for any future use ! Remember that ANYTHING.

So you still think this is FUN ? :eek:

[macmich]

that second one
to me if that photograph is used in a shopping centre and falls over and kills someone
because its your photograph
you are responsible
is that correct
cheers macca

[ricstew]

Of course its fun William.......otherwise we wouldn't do it :):rolleyes:

[Mark L]

I don't begrudge you having a bit of fun Tommo.
I like Williams post, it is informative and no doubt correct. However I wonder if majority of entrants in comps with these conditions give 2 hoots about it. Yes maybe they should.
"damn, I didn't win anything, but hey, they're using my photo to promote their shopping centres. Isn't that wonderful." So I've got something impressive to tell my family and friends, and it makes me feel good.
Bugger any legal consequences, bugger the fact a photographer didn't get paid.
"I don't now about any of that. Hey look there's my photo." :confused013 :beer_mug:

[Longshots]

Actually its my experience, in dealing with competition organisers, that using or highlighting the power of social media, and the immediate (both positive and negative) impact, can influence many competition organisers into rethinking their terms and conditions.

Now the honest truth is that few organisers have an "evil" intent,and its down to sloppy and lazy ripping off of previous comps T&C's, producing crappy yet cover all T&C's.

However there is a big market in the commercialisation of making a great deal of money out of peoples sheer stupidity when it comes to accepting outrageous T&C's.

[Tommo224]

Errr wow, what went from being a little bit of fun, suddenly became so dramatic

[ricktas]

Errr wow, what went from being a little bit of fun, suddenly became so dramatic

Nup, the T&C were always there, so it was always going to be 'dramatic', not suddenly. Sadly William (Longshots) has a role with the AIPP, as Competition Watchdog, for this very reason. Why do I say sadly? Cause it is sad that we even need the role of competition watchdog, in the first place.

William as very successfully, negotiated with competition organisers on so many occasions in the past, and had them change their T&C, yet Centro refuse to, so they know very well that they are not being 'decent' about it, and therefore deserve to have their competition T&C brought up and discussed, with the contentious issues pointed out, clearly, as William has done.

Tommo, no one is having a go at you, but pointing out that Centro are being less than fair with the competition. I guess Centro will still get thousands of entries, but if more and more people are informed of exactly what they are giving away when they enter, we can educate as many as possible.

[Longshots]

Yes, let me repeat, that I said sure have the fun, enter if you want. Just ask yourself, now I've higlighted the important T&C's, do you still think its fun.

Most competition organisers, make the entry part, a great deal of fun. And then they have 2 pages of double column legal speak. Their excuse when I suggest that the T&C's are not fair, is that "the entrants can read, we make everything clear, if they dont like the T&C's they dont have to enter" - once you've read them, do you still think its fun ?

So dont take it personally please. Just be aware.

As Rick has said, the T&C's were always there.

Plenty of companies/organisations are happy to adapt and change T&C's which are unwittingly unfair - ie produced by over ambitious legals, who see their goal to fully protect their client as opposed to considering the entrant. My role is to open the company's eyes to the negative effect over zealous T&C's can produce. Many are happy to change.
And FWIW, as PhotoWatchDog (my own organisation), I represent AIPP, ACMP and a variety of other groups of photographers, hobbyists, amateurs.

[rookie]

Was going to vote for you but they wanted all my details sorry but no thanks.

[Tommo224]

No no, don't get me wrong, I didn't realise how badly the terms were before I got in to this, otherwise I wouldn't have even considered it! I just saw it as a bit of fun, didn't realise that it was so ####ing retarded. Don't pardon my language, I'm sincerely pissed off with the competition. Not you guys.

[Tommo224]

Having said all that though, does this mean that they ACTUALLY have malicious intentions (in the sense) of taking any of the photos and using them in marketing?

[Tommo224]

Gah, I'm really pissed off that I didn't understand the thing fully!

[Cattleprod]

It's a bit of a nasty thing that Centro is doing, all those people submitting their entries in good faith and having trust in their local shopping mall...


I've just read the T&C from another competition - http://kenduncanphotoawards.com/terms-conditions/

Those terms seem a lot more civilised than the Centro ones, and the photographer keeps the rights...

Question for William - Is this a 'good' set of terms and conditions in comparison??