Timeframe.....

[snappysi]

Hi All,
I got married in June, and after chasing our photographer are hopefully receiving our pictures from our special day this week. So that rounds out at 3 months of waiting. A quite overdrawn length of time i would have thought, especially in my case as the deal was to shoot our wedding and i am doing all the editing, so really just need all the raw files handed over to me.
My question to all those that shoot weddings is what is your turnaround from day of shooting to clients receiving the product?????

Simon.

[kiwi]

Two weeks :)

What did your contract with them say ?

[camerasnoop]

Mine are usually done in time for their return from the honeymoon. Two weeks. Of course albums take longer, usually because the couple can't get their act together and send in their photo choices. BTW, no-one gets my RAW files.

[kiwi]

Good point there too, no-one gets my RAW files either.

[Longshots]

Hi All,
I got married in June, and after chasing our photographer are hopefully receiving our pictures from our special day this week. So that rounds out at 3 months of waiting. A quite overdrawn length of time i would have thought, especially in my case as the deal was to shoot our wedding and i am doing all the editing, so really just need all the raw files handed over to me.
My question to all those that shoot weddings is what is your turnaround from day of shooting to clients receiving the product?????

Simon.

Like everyone else - I dont know many people who would hand over their raw files.

But if thats what your agreement was, then its a long wait indeed.

Now a wait is only to be expected on the issue of processing, selection, album etc.

The bit that has me curious is, why is there any wait at all ? I personally would have handed them over as soon as possible, and that way limit the amount of risk by having them in my possession. As there is nothing to wait for, other than a simple copy of the Raw files, I'd be a tad concerned about this one.

[jeffde]

2-4 weeks depending on the time of year - No RAW files just Jpegs here as well

[snappysi]

Thanks for the replies guys, everybody here has echoed my sentiments exactly... i hope there is no drama and he is delaying any "problems".
As a point of interest, i wanted to edit the shots myself, just a personal thing i guess... it was an option i put to the photographer and he agreed, in writing i may add....
We looked at quite a few portfolios and decided on the photographer that got the job based on what he offered visually, that is we liked his style and the quality and i certainly cant fault his professionalism on he day. So there are no complaints from that side, just hope all is above board for the actual images.....
Tomorrow should tell as we were told they would be sent to us on Monday so should be here tomorrow.... we will see!!!!

Simon.

[kiwi]

Simon,

What's he been doing the last three months then :scrtch:

[JM Tran]

1 to 2 weeks for photos for an average wedding, albums from 1 month to 4 months depending on clients.

As I do about 20-25 weddings a year, I try to finish 1 wedding within a week, otherwise work builds up too much, especially as wedding is not only my forte.

[snappysi]

Good question Kiwi..... and your guess would no doubt be as good as mine....
We were originally told 6 weeks as he was snowed under with other work... ok no problems there, he was up front and honest straight away. Then it was another 3 weeks.... then another.... then my wife got the shits and basically demanded them... and we are now here and as i mentioned were told he was sending them Monday.....

So we will see..... fingers crossed...

Ps I should say that it has actually been 3 1/2 months... 15 weeks and 3 days to be exact.....

Simon.

[camerasnoop]

You never know what is happening in other people's lives. Most of us are Sole-Traders I'd guess. Illness and bereavements occur, and can overwhelm a Sole-Trader. No doubt though that the next few days will give you an answer. Good luck with the processing. You're about to get an insight into the world of a working wedding photog. ;)

[kiwi]

I dunno, seems lame and unprofessional to me, if you get stuck, confess and reset an expectation with your client, not just go MIA

[snappysi]

Your'e right camersnoop, everyone has things to deal with in there lives and no one really knows what goes on behind the scenes, but in saying that , Kiwi is right....... i am self employed and when you cant make a deadline or an appointment, you ring and let the client know. Its common courtesy really....

Simon.

[jasevk]

Hmmm, if i were you, and the agreement was the provision of RAW files, I'd have provided the memory cards and requested they slip them in my pocket before leaving the reception

[camerasnoop]

So, did you get them? Maybe they're in the mail with the cheque I've been waiting on from one of my wedding clients. Give us an update.

[snappysi]

Sorry guys been away for a few days busy with work. Camerasnoop, we did receive them, unfortunately we received jpegs.... a quick email to the photographer and Raw files are on there way.......They have left me with a few questions though, and beeing a Nikon shooter, ( the tog shoots Canon), there may be differences that i did not know about.

Most of the pics have been taken at what i would consider to be very high iso's... ( like 1000 - 1650 ) Absolutely no idea why. Dad who is a photographer, ( Nikon) has pics taken at iso 200, so there certainly is no need for the iso.... im sure its not a Canon thing !!!! And the focus seems off on quite a few shots, once again this may be due to the high iso, or maybe a camera thing..... not quite sure.... Contrast on faces seems off on a lot of shots where there is an off white wall behind people, which makes faces appear "soft", seems as though the camera has not handled the contrast between the 2 all that well if that makes sense. Dad and i were able to tell which camera was used after about 30 minutes of looking just by the way the photos where. Cameras used as a point of interest where a 5D, 5D2, and a 7D. To me the 7D pics are the pic of the bunch with the 5D2 the worst.

Will wait for the Raw files to come and i will reassess from there.

Simon.

[JM Tran]

could you post up some samples between the 5D2 and 7D? Sounds like the user got the focusing and DOF wrong, and poor to average editing.

[camerasnoop]

That doesn't sound too good then Simon. How many did you get? Focus is the one thing you can't photoshop back to good health. High ISO of itself shouldn't cause you problems. I often get into the ISO3200 region when shooting weddings. It's all about the light afterall. Processing from RAW will help you to tame the noise. I wouldn't be worried about that if I were you. Better to now concentrate on what you CAN do with the photos, rather than what he SHOULD have done. I'm really considering removing all EXIF data from images I give to people these days, especially camera club members. ;)

[kiwi]

simply no excuse for oof photos

[Dylan & Marianne]

Sorry guys been away for a few days busy with work. Camerasnoop, we did receive them, unfortunately we received jpegs.... a quick email to the photographer and Raw files are on there way.......They have left me with a few questions though, and beeing a Nikon shooter, ( the tog shoots Canon), there may be differences that i did not know about.

Most of the pics have been taken at what i would consider to be very high iso's... ( like 1000 - 1650 ) Absolutely no idea why. Dad who is a photographer, ( Nikon) has pics taken at iso 200, so there certainly is no need for the iso.... im sure its not a Canon thing !!!! And the focus seems off on quite a few shots, once again this may be due to the high iso, or maybe a camera thing..... not quite sure.... Contrast on faces seems off on a lot of shots where there is an off white wall behind people, which makes faces appear "soft", seems as though the camera has not handled the contrast between the 2 all that well if that makes sense. Dad and i were able to tell which camera was used after about 30 minutes of looking just by the way the photos where. Cameras used as a point of interest where a 5D, 5D2, and a 7D. To me the 7D pics are the pic of the bunch with the 5D2 the worst.

Will wait for the Raw files to come and i will reassess from there.

Simon.

apart from all of the issues already mentioned about the potential dodginess of the situation (sorry you had to go through all of this!) , it surprises me greatly that those results are what you seem to have experienced. I shoot weddings with a 7D and 5dmkII and the 7D shots taken even at iso 400 have at least as much noise as a 5dmkII's iso1600 shot. If it's a focus issue though, then perhaps the tog wasn't too great at using the 5dmkII's rudimentary AF??
Would love to see some examples though.

[kiwi]

Make sure you have copyright before you post any examples.....you should unless contracted away

[snappysi]

Am happy to post up some examples, but to be fair i should wait for the Raw files and confirm that it is nothing that has happened between the transfer to jpeg...

Snoop i got a lot !!!!! 6 discs worth of pics, so will no doubt get a few not so good with the good... and exif data was really only looked at once i thought something was not quite right.....

I must admit that dad thought that i was being a little picky, but i really dont think so...

Am not sure on etiquette and rules on AP, as i didnt take the pics and i am allowed to post exaples up ?????

Simon.

[kiwi]

if you own copyright go for gold, they are yours to use as you see fit i think.

but, i wouldnt identify the photographer either online or in the exif either.

get back to us in 3 more months when you get the raw files.

6 disks of jpeg's though ? did he have a machine gun camera ?

[snappysi]

Kiwi i have absolutely no intention what so ever of identifying the photographer.... however how could that information be released through exif data ??? wouldn't it only contain picture shooting info ( camera) ????

jJust want to be sure

Simon

[kiwi]

no, the metadata possibly contains photographer's name etc if they have left it in there. I always do, and my contact details etc

[snappysi]

ok ill check and post up a couple to get your point of view..

Simon.

[snappysi]

It will have to wait till tomorrow night... damn computer has decided it doesn't want to read my discs.......

Simon.

[camerasnoop]

Six discs wouldn't be too many if they are CD's rather than DVD's I guess. There will always be OOF images taken, but I'd have deleted these before handing them over, just like the blinky eyes and the ones where people walk in front of you. Yes, it is a good idea to replace the photographer's copyright info before you post, as long as you own the copyright.

How are you going to process them all? Lightroom? Photoshop CS5? You'll need a noise-reduction strategy too. ACR is pretty good without a third-party program these days. White Balance might be a challenge for you if you haven't done this sort of processing before. You'll want to manage your WB for all photos taken in the same lighting. You don't want variances between shots.

I'll bet by the end you have a new appreciation for what happens with the photos that wedding photographers take on the day. So many of my clients think that when I go home from the wedding, my work is over. They divide the time I spend on the job at their wedding into the dollars I charge and tell me that I have a pretty damn good hourly rate, but don't realise that the time spent taking the photos can be as little as a quarter of the time I spend altogether on their photos.

At the start of this thread, you said you picked the photographer because of his style. It will be interesting to see whether his style is evident in his shooting, or is more to do with his processing.

[ricktas]

Am happy to post up some examples, but to be fair i should wait for the Raw files and confirm that it is nothing that has happened between the transfer to jpeg...

Snoop i got a lot !!!!! 6 discs worth of pics, so will no doubt get a few not so good with the good... and exif data was really only looked at once i thought something was not quite right.....

I must admit that dad thought that i was being a little picky, but i really dont think so...

Am not sure on etiquette and rules on AP, as i didnt take the pics and i am allowed to post exaples up ?????

Simon.

Under the copyright act, domestic portraiture gives the client copyright. Weddings are classed as coming under domestic portraiture. So the copyright is yours, UNLESS, you signed a contract, or verbally agreed with the photographer that they have copyright.

Also note that you can post the photos and we can all discuss them, but direct attacks on the photographer, are not classed as 'fair use' for critiquing etc, and any posts that attack the photographer will be removed, to ensure AP is not dragged into a defamation dispute.

The "Business of Photography" forum is publicly visible, so non AP members can view it and read its content.

[camerasnoop]

Under the copyright act, domestic portraiture gives the client copyright. Weddings are classed as coming under domestic portraiture. So the copyright is yours, UNLESS, you signed a contract, or verbally agreed with the photographer that they have copyright.

Which is why my contracts all state that copyright rests with the photographer. I'd guess that is why you see photos posted in the wedding forum too.

[ricktas]

Which is why my contracts all state that copyright rests with the photographer. I'd guess that is why you see photos posted in the wedding forum too.

You need to check your wording then. Cause if yours does state 'it rests/remains/is retained by" with the photographer' you are leaving yourself open to a legal dispute. Wedding photos copyright belongs to the client, it cannot 'rest/remain/be retained' with someone that it didn't belong to in the first place. It needs to to be worded differently to that.

I have seen a court case lost cause a 'good' lawyer argued that the wording meant the client believed the copyright was always the photographers, and that the photographer did not give them full disclosure, in regards to the clients copyright status. The argument was about the wording 'remains with the photographer'. The photographer lost the case.

[camerasnoop]

My wording comes from a standard NZIPP contract. It has worked okay for them. I need to check the wording I used in my post though. :D

[reflect]

The part that really bothers me is the time taken to deliver the discs to you and your wife, regardless whether or not there are some average shots(?WB,OOF etc) in the collection(these really should have been edited out before delivery), this professional has now changed your memories of the day and every time you look or display for others these shots there will be a reminder of the process you were forced to go through to obtain what should have been prized possesions. When I look at great images taken by truly professional wedding photographers, I image it would be very rewarding (not only to the hip pocket) to deliver to a couple albums of images that complete their wedding exprience, however the skills and business acumen involved in delivering such a service are not gained by watching a tutorial on you tube (great as you tube is!) and fore front in any wedding photographers mind should be the effect of his/hers images and service on the couple. Prompt, on time delivery with high quality workmanship is the only acceptable option for those calling themselves professional, otherwise let people know your an enthusastic amateur that will have a "red hot go".
I hope you and your wife end up with some great images from the most memorable day of your life. :D

[Erin]

Sorry, gotta disagree with you, Andrew (reflect)... My photographer for my wedding was/is an industry professional (of about twenty years or more), world-travelled, magazine editor, etc, etc, etc... and he botched my photos for my wedding. It happens to the best of them and I think a bad result in general is probably the reason why the OP and myself didn't receive our photos for months and months.