Competition or not?

[jasevk]

Hi AP'ers,

Take a look at this (http://sydney.gumtree.com.au/c-Business-Services-photography-video-100-wedding-photography-W0QQAdIdZ313136089).

What's your view?

Someone recently asked me how one can possibly compete with photographer like this, offering ridiculously low rates for wedding photography. I haven't been in this business for long, yet I'm still amazed at some of the things I see.

My question to you is... If you charge premium dollars for a premium product, are you REALLY competing with these people? Would someone who's willing to hire a $100 wedding photographer ever consider hiring someone charging in the thousands anyway?

Discuss...

[Longshots]

I'm not amazed.

I once got undercut by a photographer who was willing to do 3 days of photography for $55 - yep thats fifty five dollars. Client who required shots of their multimillion land and property developments were "dissapointed" with the results. Experienced, educated professionals were in charge of that decision. Result was that they missed the chance of producing something that could have gained them some industry construction awards. Value of those would have been a great deal more than my costs.

So am I surprised ? Nope because any idiot can put up some prices and then not have to deliver the product at the advertised price. I should be surprised at the clients who want to seek that, but then again, I'm not because one of the things that people value the least these days is - photography.

And no, I dont think its something to feel that you're competing with if you want to aim for the premium market, and the $100 shooter is aiming at the lower end of the market. Horses for courses I suppose.

On the topic of 1000 images for $100 - now thats just madness.

[Art Vandelay]

Would someone who's willing to hire a $100 wedding photographer ever consider hiring someone charging in the thousands anyway?



No, there are some out there that consider a night out at maccas as fine dining.....:)

Crikey, just read the reast of ad, 1000 jpegs edited for $100. :lol:

[junqbox]

Love to see their portfolio ;-) Someone's bound to be disappointed.

[Xenedis]

Let's analyse the person's ad.


"wedding photography for your special day, I will take pictures (400 raw or 1000 jpeg), edit them and burn them onto a disc all for $100"

I'm wondering why, for the bargain price of $100, this advertiser is only prepared to convert 400 raw images to JPG mode.

If I wanted the other 600 raw images converted, I guess I would need to 'upsize' and pay another $5...


"Equipment I work with is Nikon D700, SB900 flashlight and 50mm f1.4 lens. "

Not that the majority of people seeking a wedding photographer would care what gear the shooter uses, and while there's nothing wrong with those items, it far from makes up an adequate wedding kit.

With only a single 50mm lens the shooter would want to make sure that everything he wants to shoot is within a suitable distance for framing with a 50mm lens.


"Let me know if you are interest."

I would be interested in a photographer who values his reputation and presentation enough to check his grammar (or typing) and correct very simple mistakes.

Sorry, but that ad, its presentation and placement, and the lack of a Web site, contact details or portfolio, screams "a teensy bit of gear and absolutely no idea", so, pass.

[fillum]

...(400 raw or 1000 jpeg)...I thought this was a strange distinction - till I realised he only has one memory card.


Cheers.

[Xenedis]

I thought this was a strange distinction - till I realised he only has one memory card.

That thought did cross my mind.

It sounds almost humourous.

[Gemini2261]

Good luck to him, I bet when he's contacted it is not $100 for all that... probably a scammer

[ricktas]

The word in the ad that always gets me is 'I will take pictures'

Umm, No as a professional (?) you should be taking photos. Might as well have said I will take "p-iccies" of your day. (had to put the - in there as the site converts that word to images...hehe)

NEXT!

[jasevk]

I'm not amazed.

I once got undercut by a photographer who was willing to do 3 days of photography for $55 - yep thats fifty five dollars.


I have no words for this... completely insane is the best I can do.

From what I recall of our chat, the entire market for real estate photography has taken a real beating... which staggers me because the photographs are the first thing a potential buyer will see.

What do they say about first impressions??

[jasevk]

If I wanted the other 600 raw images converted, I guess I would need to 'upsize' and pay another $5...


Gold! I had a good chuckle over this!

[kiwi]

I guess it comes down to whether a potential client switches from a $3k wedding photographer to a $100 one. I doubt that, I could see tha if you were a $500 photographer though you'd see it differently

Had a good chuckle over the memory card comment too :)

[keith-killer]

Well this person posted another job 2 days before. It says:

"hi, I am a final year university student. I have strong interest in photography, so if you would like to have a free photography assistant for your business on the weekend please contact me. Although my experience is limited, I am eager to learn.

I work with Nikon D700, 50mm 1.4G, SB900 and tripod, I have done some editing with Adobe photoshop and lightroom.

contact me on 0431 699 336.

Thanks. "

Hmm.... I think if he took your wedding photos, you would probably be having your wedding reception at McDonalds with a happy meal for everyone!

LOL

[Dylan & Marianne]

lol, at least he's looked at the memory card to see how many pictures he can fit - or perhaps that's credit where credit isn't due :P

[ricktas]

Based on Keith's post above, my guess is the edited JPG's are using a Lightroom preset, that he got off the net. Open the folder, click and convert. Go off and have a coffee etc, come back, copy to disk and give to client.

If people actually pay him the $100.00, then they get $100.00 value from the results. What 17 year old mother of five, would not love this deal when she decided to marry one of the guys who could have been the father on one of her kids.:D

[Redgum]

Enterprising young person. Just about every student wants to earn a little from whatever enterprise to see them through uni. A couple of people I know, Dick Smith and Clive Palmer, ran many such enterprises in their early days earning nothing at the outset but look where they ended up. At least you know where you stand with this person ($100) - better than pretending you're a professional and charging a $1000.

[Analog6]

The old adages of 'you get what you pay for' and 'if it looks too good to be true it usually is' instantly spring to mind. Covering a wedding is an all day affair and then there is the editing of the photos. This person certainly doesn't value themself very highly.

[Ms Monny]

Well, someone told him that he was being talked about....because the ad is no longer there!! LOL

[Redgum]

Well, someone told him that he was being talked about....because the ad is no longer there!! LOL
Perhaps he has so much business he doesn't need to advertise any more? :)

[flame70]

I love these ads especially the previous one he posted because when clients say I can get it from someone else at $100 i just show them the previous post and say thats why these guys do it so cheap... no experience, no gear, no back-up...... No way :)

[Kym]

I shot a wedding in May (which I normally avoid).
It was the 'worst case' of a family friend situation with people on a very tight budget... i.e. free.
It was interstate and they did pay our expenses (Nel was with me), so I still got more than this $100 dude (i.e. a paid trip to Melbourne).

I had 2 camera bodies, several lenses, umbrellas, stands, remotes, 3 flashes etc.
Nel did all the posing and directing.
We dumped images to a notebook during the day, and onto a external hard drive at the end of the day.
Etc. I.e. I did the most professional job I could.

Prior to the event when they asked us, I did sit them down and explain what my capabilities were, what a pro-wedding tog would do that I could not etc.
In other words there was a clear explanation of expected outcomes.

The photography was our wedding present. In the end a very happy couple.

It's a situation, although I was happy to do it in this case, is not something I'd make a habit of.

The alternate for this would have been a bunch of friends with P&S cameras, so no 'pro-togs' missed out :cool:

I wonder how often this sort of situation occurs?

[Redgum]

Kym, there are no rules on who does what when it comes to photography. So called professional photographers, like professionals in any other field, need to compete with the market place. And the market includes anyone who cares to compete. I think photographers who complain about competition are a little "precious" and deserve exactly what they get - less business. There are no reserves and if you and I want to provide a service, whatever the cost, that's our privilege, particularly when it comes to family and friends. In the end, as long as everyone involved is happy, providing a photographic service is open to everyone, not just those who think they have a mortgage (and probably have) on fancy gear and presumed expertise.
What you gave your friends is a beautiful gift that they no doubt will prize for a lifetime.

[kiwi]

Ignoring the competition side of it let's look at it from a pov of the couple. Would they have a reasonable expectation of the likely or should I say potential outcome

Possibly not, if you didn't have much clue someone saying I have a d700 etc will sound quite good probably and high end even

Are they going to get let down ? Maybe not. If the photographers equipment fails, definately. The risk is there

So, from the photographers viewpoint how many $100 jobs is he going to do before he realizes he'd get more delivering papers ?

I think practice your photography dreams on low risk photography

If have no problems if hed have replaced weddings with family, pets or kids etc

Weddings though I think are usually a bit different

[camerasnoop]

He's obviously been knocked over in the rush, because the ad is back, but the price is now $200. Like it or not, but most people who contact me ask me the price before they ask me anything else.

[I @ M]

He's obviously been knocked over in the rush, because the ad is back, but the price is now $200.

He just checked his failbook page and 3 people (including his mum) told him he takes fenominel pictchas and he was 2 cheap. :oops:

[Xenedis]

lol, at least he's looked at the memory card to see how many pictures he can fit - or perhaps that's credit where credit isn't due :P

If I were a gambling type, I'd put a fiver on the photographer having attempted to shoot a wedding once before, and discovering the memory card's capacity limitation when his shot of the groom kissing the bride didn't appear on the chimp screen after pressing the shutter.


Enterprising young person. Just about every student wants to earn a little from whatever enterprise to see them through uni. A couple of people I know, Dick Smith and Clive Palmer, ran many such enterprises in their early days earning nothing at the outset but look where they ended up. At least you know where you stand with this person ($100) - better than pretending you're a professional and charging a $1000.

Sure, but they had a clue about what they were getting into, though, right?


This person certainly doesn't value themself very highly.

I suspect it's not a lack of self-esteem, but a lack of a clue about the type of business in which he aspires to work.

The unfortunate outcome is that he'll eventually get a clue, but at someone else's huge expense.

That $100 (or $200) fee he charges is actually a whole lot more costly than the face value.


I think practice your photography dreams on low risk photography

Bingo.

One's wedding day is usually the most important or significant day in one's life, and it's not the place for a newcomer to discover just how much he doesn't know, as the married couple (and the respective families) end up being the losers, with average, bad or totally missed shots as a legacy of their special day.

[ving]

Enterprising young person. Just about every student wants to earn a little from whatever enterprise to see them through uni. A couple of people I know, Dick Smith and Clive Palmer, ran many such enterprises in their early days earning nothing at the outset but look where they ended up. At least you know where you stand with this person ($100) - better than pretending you're a professional and charging a $1000.a truer word has never been said. a student of photography making a few buck on hte side...

[zollo]

there's probably a better way to make a few bucks on the side for a student photographer than at some unsuspecting couples wedding.
- good for the industry? not particularly...lose
- good for the student? what $100 bucks for a days work?... lose
- for the couple? yeah if all they have to spend is $100 bucks, but really, come on... lose

[jasevk]

Everyone seems to have the same opinion, there is a bit of madness involved, either that or a lack of knowledge of what a client would reasonably expect of a wedding photographer, regardless of price.

[kiwi]

I don't think mad, I think naive.

Someone txt him and point him to this thread would ya

[Art Vandelay]

there's probably a better way to make a few bucks on the side for a student photographer than at some unsuspecting couples wedding.


I'm not sure that a couple could be called 'unsuspecting' if they hired a $100 for a 1000 image wedding photographer and then weren't satisfied, as redgum said above, at least he's not charging full fare, and then only delivering $100 results.

Thinking about it, and the customers who are likely to take up his offer, we may be too harsh. He may well pull off a few good ones & his clients may well be happy... Well happier than they would of been if their only other option was getting a collection of all the guests phone photos. :D