What would you do?

[Danielle10]

So a friend of mine is playing in a band next week and he has mentioned to this guy who does the booking of gigs etc that they want some live band shots and suggested my name.
If they come to me and say yes they want to do it and ask how much what do i say? whats reasonable, what would you charge?
Im happy to do it for free because its a friends band but if they ask how much i want what do i say?

[ricktas]

You list your experience as beginner, have you/will you tell them that? I think you need to be able to do the photo session justice before even considering saying yes, and thinking of a price.

So in all honesty, do you have the skills to get band shots under dark conditions with fluctuating lighting, fast movements etc?

Now, what do they want the photos for, are they a well known band, just starting out. Do they have a label behind them? All these factors affect your cost answer. Getting shots of a local group of teen boys who have been rocking it out in a shed and want to start getting gigs, they are not going to be able to pay much. Whereas the local band with a few years experience, a good following of fans, and regular bookings at great venues, will be able to pay more. What are the photos being used for, the photoboard at the venue, posters promoting the bands, etc. Is this a one off shoot, how many bands, how many hours of shooting?

There are to many variables that we don't know, to even consider giving you a price

[OzzieTraveller]

G'day Danielle

Looking at your Q and Ricki's answer ... my thoughts were similar to Ricki's with the extra ...
Tell them up front that you're a beginner, and that you are willing to work with one of them to point out shots / angles that they would like to see ... &/or for them to show you [from magazines etc] what they are looking for

Costs wise - what about saying to them - "as I'm learning the ropes, I just want to cover my costs for some time etc" and put $100 onto it - you will then get 'something' although for up to 10 hours work with shooting then some image pp then some printing & the presentation of the images back to them will be more than 10 hours of your time

Regards, Phil

[colinbm]

Hi Dani
No pro here but have been in business.
You are going to have some hard work to do here, like....
Consultation & Quote time 1hr
Travel time 1hr
Gig plan time 1hrs
Photography time 2-3 hrs
More time at venue 1hr
Travel time 1hr
PP time 1hr
Consoltation time 1hr
Printing time 1hr
Pick up & Delivery time 1hr
Haggle over price time & get paid ! 1hr

Get the idea :scrtch:

100 pix at least at venue, sort for top 20, PP to best half a dozon.
So there is $40-50 just in a quick PP alone to get 6 pix.
So you could spend 10 -12 hrs over two - three nights @ + $30-50 / Hr.
If you get half a dozen great pix & prints for $300 - $500 they should be happy ??
Col

[colinbm]

Hey Dani
How did you go with the bosses family snaps ?
Col

[atky]

Hi have shot a Friends band, had a heap of fun but and it is a big but I don't believe the shots I took were up to a standard that I would be happy charging for (I do sell motorsport images on a regular basis).That said the band has used them on there site no charge from me. So whats in it for me as I said had a great time and one of the band members has offered me some music to use on promotional disks or my site. My suggestion would be to do the shoot for free but if they want to use some images charge for them, how much I think whatever you feel comfortable with.
Hers a link to the shots I thought were alright. http://atkimages.com.au/Big%20fish/

[Tjfrnds]

Hi Danielle, excellent advice from those more experienced here. Just wanted to share with you a similar experience I had. Last yr, a friend of a friend's band had just started getting some gigs and asked me to take photos for them..they just wanted a few for their website. I told them I was a complete newbie, but would love the chance to get some gig experience. I told them I didn't want to be paid, as I was very nervous and unsure whether I'd be able to get even a few decent shots. The day of the gig, the band contacted me to let me know the organisers wanted me to hang around and take some photos of the other bands on the night as their usual photographer couldn't be there, and asked how much I wanted to do this. After much consideration, especially with my limited experience, I offered to take photos the whole night for free, and supply images to the organisers for promotion on their website (credited appropriately). I ended up with some decent pics of the bands on the night and it was a great learning experience for me. It was damn hard though! Not only dealing with low light, but constantly changing light, making sure I wasn't in the way of the audience etc.

So, I was glad I hadn't charged, as I would have been disappointed and completely embarrassed if I walked away getting paid for having a decent image or two. The experience also allowed me to build a relationship with the organisers, who have told me I'm welcome at any gig they organise (for free) and they usually throw in some drinks cards too:D

[colinbm]

And the poor person that used to do the work is now out of work & the organiser gets free pix :scrtch:
Col

[Tjfrnds]

Sorry I should have been a bit clearer..they don't pay their photographer, just promote them on their website. They only offered to pay me as they really wanted some photos on that night. When I do go to gigs now, it's to either listen to the bands or take photos for myself. I no longer provide pics to the organisers.

[mongo]

Say you are happy to do it for nothing this first time and because it is a friend's band (plus free tickets to the gig). However, if they like your work, you will be happy to do it for them in future and only charge a modest fee. That is what Mongo would do.

[colinbm]

Start cheap & it is hard to break that standard. The word will get around that this great chick (monkey) works for peanuts :crike:
It will be hard to break that mould.
Col

[mongo]

Start cheap & it is hard to break that standard. The word will get around that this great chick (monkey) works for peanuts :crike:
It will be hard to break that mould.
Col

sorry col - but there is NO mould to break unless she gets started somewhere/somehow. If she is good, the word might also get around that she IS GOOD and worth putting on albeit not for peanuts. She could also say no if they ask her to do it without being paid but she needs to get asked first - the terms are what is discussed after being asked.

[colinbm]

Yes Mongo I understand, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk ;)
But I find all these 'what should I charge' queries a bit nieve.
I mean if you are "in" the trade you will know !
So get into the trade as an empolyee or trainee & do the crawling first :confused013
Get your knees dirty & your finger hurting & learn the ways like you just can't any other way.
That way you come away knowing the standards & practices of Pro Tog.
You just can't learn the road rules & car handling by driving around a paddock :eek:
Col

[peterb666]

I am with Atky and Mongo on this.

I think the hardest thing to do is manage expectations of the 'client'. Remember Yvonne? She got great value for money (OK it was TF) and we all put in a real effort on that.

After seeing your pics of the Mike Whitney band the other week, you have the skill to do the job and to do it well. I know you will also be doing it for love and not money so I would go down the path of free shoot and a reasonable number of images. Up to you if you want to charge for usage or more. If they do want to pay you for your time and effort, then I would say that you don't normally do paid work but would consider compensation.

Very important - if you do accept payment, you must have a written agreement or a release that specifies who has copyright otherwise the copyright passes from you to the client as this becomes a commissioned job.

[Danielle10]

thanks guys, i dont think i would charge, i was just wondering what some of your thoughts would be and ive taken it all on board.
I love you lot :)

[mongo]

Mongo agrees in part Col. The question of “how much do I charge” is asked quite often but only by those not in the trade. Those in the trade know the answer. However, those in the trade are not the ones being asked to do this gig - Danielle is.

However, Mongo gets the impression that Danielle is not in the trade and more importantly, does not particularly wish to be in the trade or a pro tog. So, it may be pointless to get a job working in the trade just to learn how much to charge for something you may have no intention of doing seriously for a living or otherwise.

Mongo thinks the short answer is , if you have to ask how much to charge , you are not yet ready to charge for your services. Mongo says this with no disrespect for Danielle (for whom he has much respect). It is simply a way of saying you may have to do one or two freebies to get the confidence, experience, acknowledgement by others and most of all, your own idea of what you are worth and thus ask it of others in future “jobs”. When Mongo says “jobs” he does not mean serious employment you would rely on but rather, the odd interesting photo gig that pays you something for your trouble that you may be content to do it for.

[OwenS]

A carton/slab is always good payment for an amatuer ;)

[jasevk]

Being a muso myself, I can tell you that the chances of this person calling you and asking for a price is slim. In fact, I'd be surprised if they called you at all... But if they did, you can almost guarantee they'll say it's up to the band to pay you if they want images from you.

For your sake, I hope I'm wrong in this instance, but from my 12yrs in gigging, I cannot think of one promoter or venue owner/manager who was willing to pay a photographer... The bands have enough trouble getting decent pay!

I'd try charging the band... and getting permission from the promoter to shoot the gig. You may be able to make a sale from the other bands on the bill too?

All the best with it :)

[kiwi]

Always take the money.

[DavidG]

Being a muso myself, I can tell you that the chances of this person calling you and asking for a price is slim. In fact, I'd be surprised if they called you at all... But if they did, you can almost guarantee they'll say it's up to the band to pay you if they want images from you.

For your sake, I hope I'm wrong in this instance, but from my 12yrs in gigging, I cannot think of one promoter or venue owner/manager who was willing to pay a photographer... The bands have enough trouble getting decent pay!

I'd try charging the band... and getting permission from the promoter to shoot the gig. You may be able to make a sale from the other bands on the bill too?

All the best with it :)

Agree with the above .... I recently shot a gig in a very high end venue in Sydney for the promoter. Got paid by the promoter. Shoots in newspapers and websites etc ... I offered prints to the bands and guess how many bought prints ...... 0 .... yes I put them online for their viewing etc ... stilll 0 ...... ;-)

[colinbm]

Mongo agrees in part Col. The question of “how much do I charge” is asked quite often but only by those not in the trade. Those in the trade know the answer. However, those in the trade are not the ones being asked to do this gig - Danielle is.

However, Mongo gets the impression that Danielle is not in the trade and more importantly, does not particularly wish to be in the trade or a pro tog. So, it may be pointless to get a job working in the trade just to learn how much to charge for something you may have no intention of doing seriously for a living or otherwise.

Mongo thinks the short answer is , if you have to ask how much to charge , you are not yet ready to charge for your services. Mongo says this with no disrespect for Danielle (for whom he has much respect). It is simply a way of saying you may have to do one or two freebies to get the confidence, experience, acknowledgement by others and most of all, your own idea of what you are worth and thus ask it of others in future “jobs”. When Mongo says “jobs” he does not mean serious employment you would rely on but rather, the odd interesting photo gig that pays you something for your trouble that you may be content to do it for.

Hi Mongo
Yes I agree with you here Mongo.
I also have the greatest respects for Danielle, who is producing a lot of fine & innovative photography.
Mongo's quote "If you have to ask how much to charge, you are not yet ready to charge for your services." Is exactly my feelings here, too Mongo.
I am sure Dani will get lots of opportunities to home her skills with her Dad & his 'gigs'.
The other approach Mongo, is to ask the question back to the enquirer " what are you/they prepared to pay ? " Then Dani can make up her mind if it is worth the effort.
Cheers
Col

[mongo]

.....The other approach Mongo, is to ask the question back to the enquirer " what are you/they prepared to pay ? " Then Dani can make up her mind if it is worth the effort.
Cheers
Col

Agreed, this is also a workable suggestion.

[Scotty72]

This is turning into a 'I love Danielle-a-thon' :lol: with the greatest respect.

I would be wary of Mongo liking you - he may mean you taste good. :umm:

[colinbm]

This is turning into a 'I love Danielle-a-thon' :lol: with the greatest respect.

We wouldn't be getting jealous, would we dear Scotty, with the greatest of respect :scrtch:

[Danielle10]

Well Scotty they are human after all!!
But mongo... Hmmm... Lol

Thankyou everyone for the advice, didn't think I'd get much of a response!

Rick I think it's time we closed this thread?

[ricktas]

Well Scotty they are human after all!!
But mongo... Hmmm... Lol

Thankyou everyone for the advice, didn't think I'd get much of a response!

Rick I think it's time we closed this thread?

No, the mods and I are watching, and everyone knows the site rules, so if it does go to far, they also know the consequences

[Longshots]

The most obvious response so far is what was raised by Col & Mongo

Which, the response, can often be surprising, even for the most seasoned professional - which is go and ask the question of "what is your budget ?"

Now it would be great if you're "armed" with what you would want to charge them in the back of your mind.

but you also want a straight/poker face if they answer with a budget which far exceeds your expectations, or answer with a figure which is way below your expectation.

I assure you that can happen, and its one that can still surprise me. So rather then set yourself into a bracket of monetary value - give them the chance of valuing yourself - you could be pleasantly surprised !

[mongo]

Mongo is going to keep this short.

He is a little disappointed at some of the comments made above that may embarrass or make members feel uncomfortable. It is really unfortunate when it gets to the point that any OP feels they have to ask for their thread to be closed.

If we want to genuinely help anyone who asks for help and advice on this forum – can we please keep it real and on point . If we can’t manage that, can we at the very least, not make it too personal.

Mongo is sorry if anyone was embarrassed by what has been said earlier above.

[campdog]

Put a big price tag on ordinary pics and you will get less work.An apprentice tradesman doesnt start on tradesmens wage.
John

[colinbm]

Put a big price tag on ordinary pics and you will get less work.An apprentice tradesman doesnt start on tradesmens wage.
John

True, they work with a tradesman under their supervision until they have completed their training & passed their exams & are qualified. Then they are a professional :confused013
Col

[colinbm]

No, the mods and I are watching, and everyone knows the site rules, so if it does go to far, they also know the consequences

I hope I am not included in this, am I ? Please explain if I am under review here ?
Col

[ricktas]

I hope I am not included in this, am I ? Please explain if I am under review here ?
Col

Col, I am not about to discuss publicly your (or any other members) participation in this thread. The warning is there to read for all, and its up to each individual to think about how they commented in this thread.

THREAD CLOSED!