Pricing?

[JBuz]

Hi all,

At the Ekka earlier this week, I photographed a competitor (owner and dog) in a series of shots.

This pair won their comp, and are wanting to purchase some of the shots.

This will be my first sale, and have no idea yet on pricing.

Size of the images are 20x25. I have 3 preferences in presentation that I would like to offer to this prospective client:

1. Mounted on the light-weigh backing;
2. Canvas (though not sure if this will suit the image);
3. Print only.

I am Brisbane based, and she is based in North Qld, so transporting will have to be taken into consideration.

Are there any guidelines or "standards" for pricing?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

(happy to receive pm's if preferred) :-)

Thanks in advance

[ricktas]

What you need to do is work out what printing on canvas will cost you for example. Ie if it costs $45.00 to get it done, no use charging $50.00.

Sit down and work out your costs for each item (all your costs). Then double it for the selling price!

[JBuz]

Thanks Rick :-).

Do I include postage in this or add this to the end product price?

I'm thinking add to end price?

[ricktas]

most people just add on the price of postage at the end. People tend to know postage costs. For example I have regularly questioned people as to why they charge say $15.00 for express post, when I know that a less than 500g express post is just under $10.00. It is amazing how often I get a 'discount' on postage when I ask them why the discrepancy..hehe

So just charge postage out, at cost!

[MarkChap]

Postage is generally added at the end on a pretty much cost basis, normally.

Don't forget to figure in the cost of packaging though, a canvas for instance is going to cost a lot more to pack properly than a print alone, which could judt be rolled and sent in a tube.

[Fedgrub]

Congrats on getting the buying offer jbuz!

[Longshots]

most people just add on the price of postage at the end. People tend to know postage costs. For example I have regularly questioned people as to why they charge say $15.00 for express post, when I know that a less than 500g express post is just under $10.00. It is amazing how often I get a 'discount' on postage when I ask them why the discrepancy..hehe

So just charge postage out, at cost!

Hey - small point here, but just because the cost price of an express post package costs when you line up in a PO to buy an express post envelope at say $10, there is still time involved in doing just that, ie taking that business time in obtaining it, packaging it, addressing it etc and then delivering it to the express post box or mail box. Most suppliers I buy from charge me postage and packing - which I consider to be fair and reasonable. Ignoring that time and energy is, I'm sorry Rick, a little simplistic.

If I took your argument about postage and related it to the cost of say burning a cd, you'd be pointing out the cost price of the blank cd then ?

[Longshots]

And FWIW, some canvas printers ( not sure if I'm allowed to state their names), will deliver it to your client (already attached and stretched to a frame) without any significant extra costs.

[ricktas]

And FWIW, some canvas printers ( not sure if I'm allowed to state their names), will deliver it to your client (already attached and stretched to a frame) without any significant extra costs.

Of course you can name them William. Only members with less than 50 posts and/or 30 days membership are restricted in promoting commercial companies, and you past those targets..a long time ago

[JBuz]

Thanks all :-). Really valuable info for me to provide the best I can for my first (prospective) client :-).

I might get a print done for myself for display purposes and get it measured for postaged (including packaging) and this way I'll be able to quote quickly.

Any further hints or tips etc are greatly appreciated :-)

[kiwi]

I've seem a rule of thumb to charge 3x the cost price, if tha helps.

[ricktas]

I've seem a rule of thumb to charge 3x the cost price, if tha helps.

certainly, in business 3x is an oft quoted area. There tends to be a recommendation that your charging price should be enough to cover
33% staff - wages, super, workers comp, etc
33% other costs -stock, supplies, rent, power bills etc
33% for the rest, and profit margin

[Longshots]

Of course you can name them William. Only members with less than 50 posts and/or 30 days membership are restricted in promoting commercial companies, and you past those targets..a long time ago

Wasnt sure :) The Supplier I would highly recommend is Brilliant Prints - and I can assure you that their service is amazing.

http://www.brilliantprints.com.au/

[DavidG]

William, Thanks for the recommendation .... I have seen the guys before but without referral have been hesitant to use them.

Cheers,

David

[ricktas]

William, Thanks for the recommendation .... I have seen the guys before but without referral have been hesitant to use them.

Cheers,

David

AP site advertisers are good too:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg175/snoopytas/advertising/momentium.gif (http://www.cheapcanvasprints.com.au/)

[DavidG]

On the issue of pricing .... I believe atleast x2 but more like x3 yours costs ... this is in the early days of your career. Should you build a brand/reputation then this method goes out the door as the buyer is now paying the premium for your perceived worth.

David

[DavidG]

AP site advertisers are good too:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg175/snoopytas/advertising/momentium.gif (http://www.cheapcanvasprints.com.au/)

Agreed Rick :-)

William may not know it but I meet him earlier this year and had the good fortune to listen to him critique a print of mine :-) After listening to several more critiques and seeing his input here, William has a level of integrity or currency and as such "referring" power.

[Longshots]

Thanks David :)

I should say about the company I referred - sort of on topic - but I produced 5 x 1.5x1.5metre canvases for a client who were based in Mackay. They collected them from me in Brisbane. 6 months later, I got a call on a Monday afternoon, saying that 2 of the 5 prints had some small sagging issues. I rang Brilliant Prints, told them of the problem, and they assured me that they would sort it out. Thursday morning, my client in Mackay was stunned to receive 5 brand new replacement canvases delivered direct from BP. Thats service :) Its not like I'm a big customer - in my area of photography, I rarely get prints done.

[kiwi]

certainly, in business 3x is an oft quoted area. There tends to be a recommendation that your charging price should be enough to cover
33% staff - wages, super, workers comp, etc
33% other costs -stock, supplies, rent, power bills etc
33% for the rest, and profit margin

Yip, $1.50 for 100 full res images on a DVD sounds right ?

Oh, Ive used brilliant prints before too - they are excellent.

I tried cheap prints too - and yeah. good value for money.

[virgal_tracy]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that arbitrarily assigning a fixed multiplication level to your cost of goods is simplistic and not accurate. With the price of your cost of goods (in this case a canvas) variable dependent on who you use, you could make a good profit or a very poor one when you take into account all of the other things that go into creating the image and canvas.

Time, both shooting the event and PP, needs to be taken into account. Without knowing a lot about you or your practicises (eg. how did the competitor know you were taking photos, are you a business etc) I would be working out all of my costs to produce this image add on the profit you want to make and then charge accordingly. There are many other things about pricing that I could go into but won't at this stage but you need to look at a bigger picture than just cost of Goods multiplied by arbitrary amount.

[reaction]

I'd also be interested how the competitor knew you were taking photos. were you displaying prints as the official tog, or did you seek them out and offer? this would affect their perceived value and possibly how much margin you could charge.

[kiwi]

If you shoot on spec though, as here, its difficult to pass through time and overhead costs as punters just see a volume type output product and value it accordingly in my experience.

But, the trick is where some will pay $50 for a 8x10 most will only value at $5

If you don't have a price list it would be nuts to offer $5 to someone who might pay $50

[JBuz]

I'd also be interested how the competitor knew you were taking photos. were you displaying prints as the official tog, or did you seek them out and offer? this would affect their perceived value and possibly how much margin you could charge.

I took my camera to the event, this particular dog and his owner stood out as I was wandering through the stalls. The owner and dog were sitting together having some time prior to their comp. I asked her if it would be ok to take her and the dog's photo and she said sure :-).

She mentioned that she didn't have any photos of her and her dog together, so I asked her for her email address and would send the link to them after I uploaded them to flickr. She gave me her address and I emailed her the next day with the links.

She loved the shots and said she would love to purchase :-)

[jasevk]

Wasnt sure :) The Supplier I would highly recommend is Brilliant Prints - and I can assure you that their service is amazing.

http://www.brilliantprints.com.au/

+1 for brilliant prints... They're incredible at what they do.

[ricktas]

If I took your argument about postage and related it to the cost of say burning a cd, you'd be pointing out the cost price of the blank cd then ?

No, cause the purchaser is not purchasing a blank CD, they purchase what is on the CD. I get adding on costs for say protective bubble wrap etc, but to double the actual cost of an express post pack, when all it needed was a sticker and sealing (1 minutes work), I think a lot of people get ripped off by postage 'costs'.

[ploveday]

Whatever price model you decide on, be careful to not under-price yourself. It is extremely easy to fall into the trap of being cheap in order to get your name out there and drum up business; but beware, your name will be known for being cheap.

Set yourself at a reasonable middle ground price, and people will assume you provide decent work. There are plenty of resources out there on effective marketing and business strategy; but as a simple rule, given three choices (one cheap, one middle road and one expensive), the vast majority of people will pick the middle one, regardless of any qualitative differences. Instinctively we like to think we're getting something a bit better than the cheap option, but without the cost of the expensive option.

Price yourself cheap, and people assume it is an inferior product. Price yourself too expensive without the prior reputation, and you won't attract new business.

Nothing ground breaking, but stuff to keep in mind.
- Peter

[Longshots]

No, cause the purchaser is not purchasing a blank CD, they purchase what is on the CD. I get adding on costs for say protective bubble wrap etc, but to double the actual cost of an express post pack, when all it needed was a sticker and sealing (1 minutes work), I think a lot of people get ripped off by postage 'costs'.

Sorry, but I disagree. What about the time involved to package and then deliver the post office for collection ?

1 mins work ? Nah.

OK lets assume that what is on the CD has already been paid for - so again you have the time involved in retrieving the images from your archive (lets assume that they were originally paid for a month or so previously, and your commercial client wants another copy), so you then have to burn the images to the CD/DVD, package it up in your standard style (which in my case involves printing of the DVD facia, as well as the individual CD/DVD case, which then has to be wrapped for delivery, packed so it wont be trashed in the mail, and then put into an Express Post envelope and then someone has to take it to be delivered).

Now I know you would have a you beaut computer, (as I do too :) ), but a cd burn doesnt happen in 1 min, and doesnt matter how good your image archiving is, again that retrieval process is also not "1 mins" work. Maybe addressing the envelope is "1 mins" work. But its got to get itself to a place where it can be picked up by the post office. And even if you have an Express Post box outside your house, its still not just "1 mins" work.

I dont think people get ripped off by postage costs. As I'm well aware that when it comes to supply by mail or courier, that unless its an integral part of your business and you are specifically set up to deliver and market by mail, costs in 99.9% cases I've had experience with are fair and reasonable.

[jeffde]

Wasnt sure :) The Supplier I would highly recommend is Brilliant Prints - and I can assure you that their service is amazing.

http://www.brilliantprints.com.au/

Not only is the service great but they also offer a 75 yr guarantee - which inlcudes accidental damage.

I had an artbloc replace recently - no questions - just redone and delivered...