Canon Australia updates RRP

[KeeFy]

http://www.canon.com.au/en-au/About-Canon/News-Events/News-Press-Releases/Canon-focuses-on-attracting-consumer-attention-locally

Looks like they are finally waking up a little and attempting to battle the grey import prices. I've not looked at the new prices yet but hopefully it'll be competitive enough to buy locally. I would rather spend my dough here with a local warrany rather than overseas should the price disparity be minimal.

Enjoy!

[accesser]

About time ! I heard one of the grey market importers in Brisbane closed not so long ago this could lead to more

[agb]

About time ! I heard one of the grey market importers in Brisbane closed not so long ago this could lead to more
If you are referring to D-D photographics they are still alive and well and living in Sydney though, it is just the Brisbane store that closed. They said, for what it is worth, that they have a new delivery arrangement and that as a result they can do it all from Sydney instead of having the two stores.

[Bennymiata]

Canon are just passing on the better A$, which should have been done months ago anyway.
Those prices are still around 1/3rd higher than grey marketeers.

eg. The Canon 550D super kit they now quote at $1449.00 can be bought grey for just $993.00 or even less.

Instead of spending $15M on advertising, they should use that money to reduce their prices to make them more competitive.

After all, Sigma do it, and the new 150mm Macro lens I bought from DCW was less than 10% dearer than buying it grey.

These days, everything is world market price, and if you are charging a lot more for a product here than it is easily available from another country, you will lose lots of local sales.
People are now too savvy to fall for overinflated local pricing, especially on technology.

[ameerat42]

Apologies for intruding a related matter in your thread, but the news has been replete with retailers lamenting the downturn in personal shopping as opposed to on-line shopping. Some have advocated a GST on items less that $1000 that are bought on-line.

It riles me to hear such "solutions" when the most obvious one is ignored: DROP YOUR PRICES!

h(Um)ph!

[JM Tran]

Those prices are getting a bit better, but still too expensive IMO

would like to see more price drops in more products, not just those ones listed

[fess67]

It riles me to hear such "solutions" when the most obvious one is ignored: DROP YOUR PRICES!

h(Um)ph!

That is easily done if we assume the price difference is in cost of goods and the Aussie retailer is living it up on large profit margins. However, overheads such as retail rents, staff wages and taxes are not equal in all countries and this enables retail prices to vary.

So, the solution is simple, lower staff wages to the equivalent of those in China or Hong Kong, abolish the GST and lower the rent. Now they can sell it to us at 'grey' rates. Not sure I want to reduce my income or those of other Aussies and I am pretty certain the Government might miss all that tax!

[Scotty72]

Retail space rental is way over the odds in Oz.

I think it is a bit of a myth to blame it of retail labour staff - who get paid crap wages. Some of my students report pay of < $10 hour. Not a lot in the context of running a shop.

[GTP 290]

I'm not sure if it would be considered to be a grey market item but I've recently seen (on ebay) a canon 7d body only kit for about $900 less than the canon RRP. This is from an australian seller located in melbourne that is offering full 3 year australian canon warranty. So how would this seller be capable of offering such a cheap price? and how is it that canon doesn't also offer similar prices?

[Scotty72]

Are you sure the warranty is actually from Canon?

[GTP 290]

I'm not sure what the difference is, but the ad states "genuine canon 3 year factory warranty"

[I @ M]

I'm not sure what the difference is, but the ad states "genuine canon 3 year factory warranty"

Maybe they haven't updated their website but going by this one (http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/Support-Services/Warranty/Warranty-Terms) they only offer a 1 year warranty on cameras and kits.

I would hazard a guess that the seller is simply a grey market middleman like so many others trying to "appear" as if they are offering local stock.

[GTP 290]

Ok gotta make a correction here, the original ad I saw is now gone (austion ended) the price was $1450 + $34 postage. However the ad's I'm looking at from australian sellers are still around $800 cheaper than the canon RRP.

[GTP 290]

I would hazard a guess that the seller is simply a grey market middleman like so many others trying to "appear" as if they are offering local stock.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the case. Still damn tempting to take the ad down to hardley normal and make them honour it. Our local shop will only honour offers if the seller is within australia.

[Tannin]

Prices are changing rapidly just at the moment as the grossly overvalued Aussie dollar returns to something a little closer to sanity. DigitalRev's price for a 15-85 just went from about $640-odd before tax to $700 even.

I was going to order one there but they added a $70 "import handling fee" onto my order to replace the GST. Note that as a foreign order for less than AU$1000, it is GST exempt. What this amounts to is selling the item for 10% more than they advertised it for. I don't mind paying for freight, and I don't mind paying GST, but I'm damned if I'll pay 10% extra when the law says I don't have to. So I canceled the order and went elsewhere. To my surprise and pleasure, DWI still had it for $650.

I much prefer t o buy locally, but at $700 delivered vs over $1000 to get the same thing from a local business, I don't really have a choice.

I should imagine that the exchange rate will drop quite a bit over the next little while - at least that's what the finance page guys reckon, and they are smarter about this stuff than I'll ever be, which is why I got in today before stuff goes up too much.

[Tricky]

I don't think the reductions are substantial enough to bring local stock on par with grey stock. I'd be prepared to pay, say, 10-15% more for local stock but beyond that it's just too much money to give away...

Canon Australia's RRP for a 5D Mk2 remains pretty lofty at $3,299.... I just ordered a grey import 5D Mk2 for $2,188 (incl 2 year door-to-door warranty from seller and no GST/duty risk as the body is already in their Sydney warehouse)... that's a $1,111 or 34% difference :eek:

[macmich]

i just rewcieved my 7d today i got it grey i paid 1350 for it delivered to the door
i will do the same next year
i can afford to swap over a grey every year and sell the old one for not much less than what i bought for last year
i could not do that with a camera bought here i would lose to much on value
buying grey i swap each year and claim on tax for the new camera each year and always keep up to date
cheers macca
have a look at the harvey norman crap when he said he would start online sales
he sold garbage and closed up online

[KeeFy]

I think people are missing a small but important fact here. RRP is Recommended Retail Price. Which means that is the MAXIMUM price you'll ever want to pay. The normal prices you expect from a retailer will be lower and in some instances significantly lower.

The downward adjustment of RRP will indicate that retailers will most likely lower the prices accordingly as well.

[Tricky]

Canon Australia's RRP for a 5D Mk2 remains pretty lofty at $3,299.... I just ordered a grey import 5D Mk2 for $2,188 (incl 2 year door-to-door warranty from seller and no GST/duty risk as the body is already in their Sydney warehouse)... that's a $1,111 or 34% difference :eek:


I think people are missing a small but important fact here. RRP is Recommended Retail Price. Which means that is the MAXIMUM price you'll ever want to pay. The normal prices you expect from a retailer will be lower and in some instances significantly lower.

Fair point, Keefy. Best quote I managed to get for a local 5D Mk2 was $2,800 (ie grey import still 22% less). That was about 5 days ago - would be interesting to check if the same dealer would come in below $2,800 now that the RRP has come down a bit?

[Woody08]

I've been in the market for a 7D for quite a while. Harvey Norman's best price was $1990 body only. They say this is cost plus $100. Thats over $500 more than I can buy on line.

I ended up buying a second hand 7D on gumtree, it has lees than 250 actuations, is not yet six months old and still has 18months Canon Australia Warranty left. Came with battery grip, spare battery and all the usual disks, charger cables etc. How much do you ask? Well $1300. Bingo.


Cheers,

John W:)

[atky]

Canon Aust RRP 5D 2 http://www.canon.com.au/en-au/Pro-Photography/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/EOS-5D-Mark-II $3299
Canon USA RRP 5D 2 http://usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras $2499

[fess67]

Retail space rental is way over the odds in Oz.

I think it is a bit of a myth to blame it of retail labour staff - who get paid crap wages. Some of my students report pay of < $10 hour. Not a lot in the context of running a shop.

True...in a way. I have just closed a retail outlet. Staff costs were 30%. Rent was 30% (inc gas, elec, etc), GST 10%, Franchise costs 10%, cost of goods 30%.

Add that up....30 + 30 + 10 + 10 +30....110. YEP 110% - and that is with me working 80 hours a week for no income. Now, tell me the way to make it all work is to lower the price of my product!!!

Fact is, in order to survive I tried to reduce costs.....got rid of good staff and employed kids at $8 an hour...criminal but the law says that is their rate of pay....still not enough...raise prices........hmmm yeah that works..............OH NO, now I actually have people abusing my staff (under 16 since thay are the cheap labour) because they feel the product is too expensive!!!

"screw you I can get it online for less!"

Damn....what do I do now, I already have a 10% loss.... OH..I GET IT!!!! DROP MY PRICE!!! that means I can sell more product (at a loss) and dig myself a bigger hole.....INSPIRED!!!!

/rant.

Sorry. just got out of a retail situation losing me money hand over fist and tired of 'customers' telling me how it can work.

<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>

Lol guess my rant was not done.

Seriously guys, if you want to see it from a retailers side give me a call. I am all for consumer freedom but look at the impact to our way of life.

/rant / rant /rant......<breathes deep> ok...emotion gone...breath...breath....breath...ahhhhhhhhhh.....

Grrrrrrrr..........

[Tricky]

Don't blame you for having a rant, Fess67. Sorry to hear what you've had to go through, particularly customers abusing your staff and having to close your shop.

I do, however, defend the consumer's right to search out the lowest price even if this shifts business overseas.

Seismic change underway in retailing in Australia. Ambush from all sides: GST inequity relative to imported goods under $1000, high (and rising) staff costs, rents that are lagging / out of sync with retail conditions (will eventually come down as retail space demand falls away), and consumer demand shifting online (people have got used to buying goods online - prices are low and the risks involved largely manageable).

Whilst terribly difficult for those that work in retailing, alas this isn't the first or last severe shift to impact an industry (eg coal mining or car manufacture in England).

[Scotty72]

I have bought my 7d body grey and my L lenses 'legit'.

I'll tell you why:

The bodies: well, these days are getting to be almost disposable. The grey guy (based in Aus) gave me a 2 year retail warranty. I feel that a camera will either work or not. Withing the 2 years, if it goes wrong, I'm covered.

Lenses: I thought about grey but, lenses (esp the Ls) should be a long term investment (24-105L excepted :(). But, sometimes, they 'go soft' or have other probs that are not absolute in nature. I found a bricks and mortar guy here who (despite charging about 20% more) won me over with a bit of service. Told me that I got the lens home and it was a 'soft copy' or needed a calibration etc - bring it back. In other words, he was a knowledgeable guy who made it is mission to make me feel comfortable with handing over a couple of grand.

I feel that many customers will pay a little more if they get good service. I constantly tired of Gen Ys 'serving' me when chewing gum, talking to their mate of the phone or texting them. I don't want a 16 year old calling me 'mate' or treating me as though I was interrupting their rest.

This might be fine if I'm buying a pair of socks at K-mart, but, many retailers seem to not get the idea that someone buying a $3000 lens wants a little more reassurance than that - otherwise - if you're going to get treated like crap, then ebay treats you like crap more cheaply.

[Xenedis]

I cannot say I found Canon's recent RRP decreases all that comprehensive or impressive, or all that relevant to me.

Should I be in the market for another lens, I think I shall stick to buying from the one or two non-retail outfits from which all of my lenses has been sourced, as the prices are still cheaper despite than Canon's new RRPs.

[atky]

"<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>"

Its not the consumers fault that retail rent is a ripoff if the rent is to high don't sign the lease.
If retailers didn't sign the lease with Westfield etc the shopping centers would be empty and the rent's would soon drop.
If your business plan requires you to be in a over valued premises get a new one.
Don't blame the consumer for doing what you should be doing, looking for better value.
If the Australian distributor wants to much for your product do what your x customers are doing get it of shore. (Especially when it is manufactured of shore)

[Tannin]

^ Gosh, life is simple, isn't it!

[Scotty72]

Well, atky has a point.

Of course a consumer want to pay the price that gives the most value. Generally, people will pay more only if they think there is a benefit (such as service). Australian retail and service are rarely mentioned in the same sentence any more without the addition of the words 'lack of'.

It's the same as asking people to pay more tax than they would otherwise have to. Unless they see a benefit from it they wont. Isn't this the great cry about the Carbon Tax - 'it won't help change the temperature.'

For decades, the retailers have been able to rip us off by pulling the wool over our eyes. Now, they just don't like it when the internet has helped lift the wool - and now we can see just how much the rip off is.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... Or offer a service! :)

Scotty

[Xenedis]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... Or offer a service! :)

These days, differentiating on price alone is very hard to do.

As we've seen, and from cost prices some B&M staff have told me, the parallel importers are able to sell lenses for a lower price than B&Ms pay for them, so it's an impossible situation for the retailers.

What the retailers would need to offer is an excellent level of service.

Even then, that's got its challenges, as there are consumers like myself who simply don't need the service. People don't sell lenses to me; I buy lenses from them. In other words, there's nothing about the product that a salesperson can tell me, that I don't already know. I already know the product; what I need is a good price. I want the item; it's just a matter of who gets to supply it to me at a price I consider acceptable.

Of course, when it comes to warranty issues, that's probably where a consumer like myself would potentially need service.

The 'problem' in that regard is that I have never needed warranty service, so the issue of whether it's worth paying more for Australian warranties or some sort of service level from the retailer, is a matter of risk assessment on the part of the consumer.

It's like insurance. For the most part it's a giant waste of money, but when you need it, it's worth its weight in gold.

[Scotty72]

Very true. But me, being a paranoid sort, am quite prepared to pay a premium (maybe 20%) for the security of them being my 'friend' if warranty is ever called for. I'm particularly twitchy about expensive lenses.

However, I suspect that service standards will soon be so bad in Oz that I will buy lenses via the web. :(



Scotty

[Tannin]

It's a vicious cycle, Scotty. Retailers are being forced to cut their costs by price competition, and that means they can't afford to provide proper service, which reduces their ability to compete, so they have to cut their prices to maintain sales, which reduces the amount they can spend on service, and so on.

Eventually, Australia will be an empty hole in the ground with no jobs and no ability to do anything except borrow money and spend it in Hong Kong.

[peterb666]

That is easily done if we assume the price difference is in cost of goods and the Aussie retailer is living it up on large profit margins. However, overheads such as retail rents, staff wages and taxes are not equal in all countries and this enables retail prices to vary.

So, the solution is simple, lower staff wages to the equivalent of those in China or Hong Kong, abolish the GST and lower the rent. Now they can sell it to us at 'grey' rates. Not sure I want to reduce my income or those of other Aussies and I am pretty certain the Government might miss all that tax!

What a load of rubbish. If someone can explain to me why most things in Australia are stupidly more expensive than elsewhere (even the US which has relatively high costs) do so. For example, Adobe Photoshop CS5, Australia $1699 rrp or $1629 by electronic delivery over the internet. US - USD $699. Please, how do you justify electronic delivery of software, most likely from an overseas server that is around 150% higher than the retail box price in the US.

I am waiting...

As far a camera gear is concerned, some show that Australian prices can be competitive. For example, Voigtlander products are amongst the cheapest in the world in Australia and recent Olympus pricing in Australia, e.g. with the latest PEN series is very competitive indeed.

[fess67]

"<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>"

Its not the consumers fault that retail rent is a ripoff if the rent is to high don't sign the lease.
If retailers didn't sign the lease with Westfield etc the shopping centers would be empty and the rent's would soon drop.
If your business plan requires you to be in a over valued premises get a new one.
Don't blame the consumer for doing what you should be doing, looking for better value.
If the Australian distributor wants to much for your product do what your x customers are doing get it of shore. (Especially when it is manufactured of shore)

All good points and valid.

I think my point, as has been articulated by others, is that it is not as simple as reducing the price of your product because there are many other factors in play other than the difference between cost and sale prices. I do not blame consumers for hunting for the best deal, it is what we all do. Just don't expect retailers to be around for too long. We have seen it with the big book stores and we will continue to see it with other industries as the global economy continues to sell across the Internet. Of course we need to move with the times etc, I just get annoyed when people think that reducing prices is the answer, like a magic fix.

[peterb666]

All good points and valid.

I think my point, as has been articulated by others, is that it is not as simple as reducing the price of your product because there are many other factors in play other than the difference between cost and sale prices. I do not blame consumers for hunting for the best deal, it is what we all do. Just don't expect retailers to be around for too long. We have seen it with the big book stores and we will continue to see it with other industries as the global economy continues to sell across the Internet. Of course we need to move with the times etc, I just get annoyed when people think that reducing prices is the answer, like a magic fix.

Capitalism works by pricing goods at what the market is willing to pay. Australia has always had relatively high prices. Most international trade is done in USD and most good bought in Australia are from overseas.

Other than cheap crap made in China and a modest lowering of the cost of cars, there have been few price reductions in Australia to match the fall against the USD from less than 60c to the current $1.05ish.

My son goes to university and I buy his text books. They are expensive and generally printed overseas. I have bought most of his books through a company called The Nile. They are a NZ company and have warehousing and some sourcing from Australia but it basically comes from wherever it is cheapest.

His last book was $135 from the bookshop university that he attends. I got it from The Nile and it came from the US via NZ to The Nile's Artarmon offices in Sydney and was then couried to me for $101. So far I have saved around $200 on my son's text books this year and all but one came from overseas.

Before that, I got a US made car manual for my Subaru, again through The Nile marked US $24.95 on the sticker on the shrink wrapping, then again shipped to NZ and then to Australia (it was probably already in NZ). All inclusive cost was $28. The rrp in Australia (no one had it in stock so order only) - $60.

Book, cameras, anything. If it isn't made in Australia, there is no excuse for local costs to be 100% higher than overseas costs. Twenty percent compared to the US, maybe. Any more is stupid. As I have mentioned, the importers of Voigtlander and Olympus Australia have shown you can have world competitive pricing in Australia. There are no excuses to justify the mark up of gear in Australia by some of the importers and wholesalers.

[dannat]

We compare to US which is often cheapest in world - if you look at euro & UK prices I think you will see they pay close to us. I have been led to believe some factors sway in US favor
1. Some makers charge stores when they make a sale ( they don't have to buy/hold stock)
2. Because US is such a prized market there is one price for them, one for rest of world ...I CN believe ths as high end binoculars 699 there, 1800 here

[Scotty72]

It's a vicious cycle, Scotty. Retailers are being forced to cut their costs by price competition, and that means they can't afford to provide proper service, which reduces their ability to compete, so they have to cut their prices to maintain sales, which reduces the amount they can spend on service, and so on.

Eventually, Australia will be an empty hole in the ground with no jobs and no ability to do anything except borrow money and spend it in Hong Kong.

Then, retailers shouldn't chase their tails and try to compete on price - unless they enjoy futile games.

Consumer behaviour is changing in Oz. People (not all but, enough) are chasing service and quality. Sure, there will always be the Costco / shoppa docket crowd who will queue for an hour and be treated like cattle in order to save $5.

Is that really the type of customer a retailer wants - who will argue for an hour over 5c?

There are plenty of others with a big of self-respect who will want a decent service.

Scotty

[Scotty72]

Capitalism works by pricing goods at what the market is willing to pay. Australia has always had relatively high prices. Most international trade is done in USD and most good bought in Australia are from overseas.

Other than cheap crap made in China and a modest lowering of the cost of cars, there have been few price reductions in Australia to match the fall against the USD from less than 60c to the current $1.05ish.

My son goes to university and I buy his text books. They are expensive and generally printed overseas. I have bought most of his books through a company called The Nile. They are a NZ company and have warehousing and some sourcing from Australia but it basically comes from wherever it is cheapest.

His last book was $135 from the bookshop university that he attends. I got it from The Nile and it came from the US via NZ to The Nile's Artarmon offices in Sydney and was then couried to me for $101. So far I have saved around $200 on my son's text books this year and all but one came from overseas.

Before that, I got a US made car manual for my Subaru, again through The Nile marked US $24.95 on the sticker on the shrink wrapping, then again shipped to NZ and then to Australia (it was probably already in NZ). All inclusive cost was $28. The rrp in Australia (no one had it in stock so order only) - $60.

Book, cameras, anything. If it isn't made in Australia, there is no excuse for local costs to be 100% higher than overseas costs. Twenty percent compared to the US, maybe. Any more is stupid. As I have mentioned, the importers of Voigtlander and Olympus Australia have shown you can have world competitive pricing in Australia. There are no excuses to justify the mark up of gear in Australia by some of the importers and wholesalers.

We recently bought about CANADIAN $ 500 worth of ice-hockey gear for my girl (a friend visited Toronto, ON). Retail price here. >A$1500

The Candain dollar is worth about $1.02 US. Aussie at the time we purchased was worth $1.07.

So, we were ripped off by > 3x.

I do appreciate that the ice-hockey economies of scale are not great in Oz but, three times is GREED.

[householddog]

Yes you would have to have some great service to justify a weeks+ worth of wages, on that purchase.

You could hire a sales person, to talk to you, for 2 days, about your product, in a fairly nice hotel room. You could also probably buy a few bottles Moet, just to make things nicer too.

I think there are a lot of things in play, in Australia.

Rents are high, for sure. Do you think they are any lower in Hong Kong, or New York? Both of these places destroy local pricing. The issue is that rents are overpriced, for where they are. To an extent, chain retailers are as much to blame for this, as anyone. They try to muscle each other out of retail space. In the past they simple passed the cost onto the consumer.

Staff wages are another matter, but the difference we are talking, would pay for days of staff costs, on a single L lens.

Wholesale costs are, probably the biggie. Then again, there is nothing stopping a retailer from offering a grey cameras, on the local market. There is absolutely nothing illegal about it. It's not like we are talking about intellectual property. I notice that BH Photo, actually offer both grey and US products.

I am glad that Canon is waking up to this, however, they have still been making profits out of the grey market, anyway.

[Scotty72]

Yes you would have to have some great service to justify a weeks+ worth of wages, on that purchase.

You could hire a sales person, to talk to you, for 2 days, about your product, in a fairly nice hotel room. You could also probably buy a few bottles Moet, just to make things nicer too.



It is usually very easy to dismiss anything with sarcasm. However, the vast majority of consumers still don't buy over the internet. Many would cite the security and service provided by bricks and mortar.

There is obviously a reason they are willing to pay over the odds (I don't think there are too many still running about saying, 'What's the internet?'

I think there is a correlation between the dropping of service standards and the rise of on-line shopping.

Scotty

[ameerat42]

I'm with you, Peter, at least to the extent that the idea of dropping prices should not be excluded out of hand. Yes, the others who talk about how hard it is have a point too. In my original post on this topic I was reacting to how the option just didn't seem to get a look-in.
Now I've found this site (http://store2.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-EDU-EU&event=displayProduct&categoryPath=/Applications/DesignPremium) which lists prices for various CS5 products. Click on and select from the "Software" tab to get an idea of what they're are charging in euros. (Not the hopping ones.)
Am.

[Doninoz]

As a reseller I can't compete so I don't offer Canon any more. I sell some to existing customers who want to stay with my support but other than that, I just don't try.

Complaining to Canon gets a reseller exactly nowhere! I can disclose my current buy price on a 7D is $1767.00 ex tax! How can I compete with companies selling it full price for under $1,600.00 with a 3 year Australian warranty??? (that's with MACK too, not canon warranty but still as good. When I bought my 5D Mark II, I bought it cheaper from retail (JB HiFi) than I could buy it from my distributor! Of course, JB buy from a Canon distributor just like me but because they have more buying power, they get more discount...prices are tiered.

I agree that Canon Australia is just passing on the high dollar savings and that was confirmed in Canon's mail out to resellers just a few weeks ago. They haven't really lowered prices, nor will they! Canon doesn't do that.

I remember in a meeting with resellers a few years ago Canon admitted that their markups were much higher than other countries but said that this had to be as the Australian Market was so small.

I don't know whether any of you remember the Australian Government changing the law and allowing grey market competition into Australia. Well this was as a direct response to Canon Australia's cases against sellers of grey imports for breach of copyright (Canon Australia said they had an exclusive copyright on the canon logo in Australia and sellers who sold canon products were in breach of that copyright...so the Government stopped Canon - and others who were about to get on the bandwagon in their tracks!)

I too think it's about time that Australian 'brand' wholesalers woke up to the reality that they can no longer charge inflated markups any more and get with the one-world market!

[Scotty72]

A good example of how many large companies are stuck in the old business mould. ;)

Canon will wake up eventually but, they will leave a trail of broken resellers in their wake. :(

[Xenedis]

Canon will wake up eventually but, they will leave a trail of broken resellers in their wake. :(

The other thing to consider is that there is very little profit margin in selling cameras and lenses.

Accessories is where more money is made. Y'know, those useful-as-tits-on-a-bull UV/'protection' filters, flash cards, camera cases, cleaning kits, etc.

[Mark L]

I remember in a meeting with resellers a few years ago Canon admitted that their markups were much higher than other countries but said that this had to be as the Australian Market was so small.


And this is where the real problem arises. If I can buy something from B&H for 40% less than the Canons R.R.Price in Aus. then it makes it very hard for our retailers.
If we're such a small market then selling at nil profit margin won't make any deference to the major camera manufactures bottom line. Sell more cameras and then key into making money as per ^ by Xenedis.
I need a couple of new lenses, but I can't afford the camera to put them on.:rolleyes:

[zollo]

True...in a way. I have just closed a retail outlet. Staff costs were 30%. Rent was 30% (inc gas, elec, etc), GST 10%, Franchise costs 10%, cost of goods 30%.

Add that up....30 + 30 + 10 + 10 +30....110. YEP 110% - and that is with me working 80 hours a week for no income. Now, tell me the way to make it all work is to lower the price of my product!!!

Fact is, in order to survive I tried to reduce costs.....got rid of good staff and employed kids at $8 an hour...criminal but the law says that is their rate of pay....still not enough...raise prices........hmmm yeah that works..............OH NO, now I actually have people abusing my staff (under 16 since thay are the cheap labour) because they feel the product is too expensive!!!

"screw you I can get it online for less!"

Damn....what do I do now, I already have a 10% loss.... OH..I GET IT!!!! DROP MY PRICE!!! that means I can sell more product (at a loss) and dig myself a bigger hole.....INSPIRED!!!!

/rant.

Sorry. just got out of a retail situation losing me money hand over fist and tired of 'customers' telling me how it can work.

<for those that do not understand some of the pressures Aussie outlets face...my shop was smaller than most family rooms.......I paid $10,0000 a month for that> YEP, a month. now come tell me to my face I should drop my prices....for what? So you can get your product but I earn nothing, my staff get paid jack and we all work our butts off!!>

Lol guess my rant was not done.

Seriously guys, if you want to see it from a retailers side give me a call. I am all for consumer freedom but look at the impact to our way of life.

/rant / rant /rant......<breathes deep> ok...emotion gone...breath...breath....breath...ahhhhhhhhhh.....

Grrrrrrrr..........

not to tell you how to run your business, but did you ever think that whatever you were running out of a living room sized space @ 10,000 a month was not a very viable option?

[Xenedis]

I remember in a meeting with resellers a few years ago Canon admitted that their markups were much higher than other countries but said that this had to be as the Australian Market was so small.

Maybe the number of Canon EOS DSLRs and EF lenses Canon sells in Australia is a small percentage of the number of those items sold in the US market, but what Canon Australia perhaps ought to realise is that while this wide, brown land of ours is girt by sea, the Internet isn't.

To the kind of logical mind I have, the notion of paying a significantly higher amount of money for a given item sold through Canon Australia's authorised distribution chain -- as opposed to a much cheaper price elsewhere -- for the same item, that originates from the same Japanese factory, just doesn't make any bloody sense.

So, while Canon has dropped its RRPs for an extremely limited number of its products, the 'savings' still don't come close to beating, let alone matching, what a savvy enough consumer can easily achieve.

[KeeFy]

Maybe the number of Canon EOS DSLRs and EF lenses Canon sells in Australia is a small percentage of the number of those items sold in the US market, but what Canon Australia perhaps ought to realise is that while this wide, brown land of ours is girt by sea, the Internet isn't.

To the kind of logical mind I have, the notion of paying a significantly higher amount of money for a given item sold through Canon Australia's authorised distribution chain -- as opposed to a much cheaper price elsewhere -- for the same item, that originates from the same Japanese factory, just doesn't make any bloody sense.

So, while Canon has dropped its RRPs for an extremely limited number of its products, the 'savings' still don't come close to beating, let alone matching, what a savvy enough consumer can easily achieve.

I don't think Canon Australia will ever be able to beat overseas prices for 1 core reason. GST. That's an extra 10% on top (which you can claim back if you're going overseas and places like Hong Kong has none). Also factor in other costings and it definitely won't. I beg to differ when Canon Australia says the Australian market is small. It's bigger than some markets and yet the prices are still significantly higher than those. It's down to greed and the top level wanting a fatter paycheck.

That said.. it was nice to see it from the perspective of a distributor thanks to Donninoz. It seems i will not be getting my cameras locally anytime soon unless it's 2nd hand.

[Scotty72]

We are a small and, importantly, isolated market. Sure, Belgium might be s small market, but it is surrounded by very large ones. So, I am maybe the Belgian supply can just piggy-back on the German shipment?????

However, Johnno is right: They have got to stop thinking in the last century. Online retail has no international borders. So, instead of talking about a Hong Kong price and an Australian price seperately, they should just set an international price.... Then, I'm sure Australians will accept a small % on top due to a slightly higher freight cost.

[peterb666]

I don't think Canon Australia will ever be able to beat overseas prices for 1 core reason. GST. That's an extra 10% on top ...

First off let me say I hate the GST. It put one of my friends businesses out of business and the company I worked for at the time was severely hit, previously being not only free of wholesale sales tax but tax exempt on purchases. Well all that changed but the budgets of the clients didn't.

On the defence of the GST (if you can call it that), our GST is relatively low compared to many other countries, for example, the UK is 20% and NZ us 15%. Funny thing is I can buy a lot of stuff cheaper from those countries than Australia.

[JM Tran]

First off let me say I hate the GST. It put one of my friends businesses out of business and the company I worked for at the time was severely hit, previously being not only free of wholesale sales tax but tax exempt on purchases. Well all that changed but the budgets of the clients didn't.

On the defence of the GST (if you can call it that), our GST is relatively low compared to many other countries, for example, the UK is 20% and NZ us 15%. Funny thing is I can buy a lot of stuff cheaper from those countries than Australia.

not to mention we can buy the stuff in Europe in certain areas and shops, and claim back the 20% VAT etc at the airport before flying back to Aus, thus further increasing our savings even more.

[Xenedis]

There have been stories in the media lately about the retail market declining.

It's no surprise, really. Consumers have woken up and taken their business elsewhere (eg, online) where they can buy goods at lower prices.

[macmich]

i went into my local camera shop
the only one in bendigo and asked the chap if he could get any more vanguard tripods with pistol heads in
he had quoted me $270 normally $299 therse
i had in my hand a brand new 7d with a 10-20 on it
he asked me where i got the 7d
i told him i got it for a $1000 cheaper than there price
he turned around and said theres the door theres no more 10% discount for you
cheers macca

[peterb666]

i went into my local camera shop
the only one in bendigo and asked the chap if he could get any more vanguard tripods with pistol heads in
he had quoted me $270 normally $299 therse
i had in my hand a brand new 7d with a 10-20 on it
he asked me where i got the 7d
i told him i got it for a $1000 cheaper than there price
he turned around and said theres the door theres no more 10% discount for you
cheers macca

The classic "I will cut off my nose in spite of my face" retailer who would like to live in a world without competition. The idiot has probably just lost a $100 profit and no doubt future income - just brilliant retailing - no wonder b&m stores are going by the way.

[Scotty72]

he asked me where i got the 7d
i told him i got it for a $1000 cheaper than there price
he turned around and said theres the door theres no more 10% discount for you
cheers macca

What an idiot! Complete moron who should not be in business.

[Xenedis]

i had in my hand a brand new 7d with a 10-20 on it
he asked me where i got the 7d
i told him i got it for a $1000 cheaper than there price
he turned around and said theres the door theres no more 10% discount for you

Hilarious. His 'discount' still doesn't put the price within cooee of what you can land elsewhere.

[macmich]

he is not the owner
just a worker
i ordered the tripod and get delivered tommorow from one of our advertisers
i go to melbourne every 3 months for checkup
now it weill be checkup and camera shop stockup
cheers macca

[Longshots]

I know of several photographic products that can be bought from the manufacturer direct in the US - which are ludicrously expensive when sold by Australian based retaillers. Now I'm sympathetic with the retail industry, but they need to adapt. As a professional photographer Ive had to severely adapt. Its time for the retail suppliers to do the same. Having said that, I've bought 90% of my purchases in Australia, and have been faithful to a particular Australian supplier, who has adapted very well to the international market place.

So an example of a couple of products for sale in Australia

One product can still be bought from the US, or from an Australian importer. For the benefit of buying from the Aussie store, you pay an additional 120% on top of the US price. The only reason that the Aussie store started importing this product, was because they'd seen the product I'd personally imported at a cost of AUS $378 delivered - arriving to my door 2 days after ordering online. The Aussie importer, you have to order from them, wait a few weeks, and then they will ring you and you collect it from them at the price of nearly $900. So what are Australians paying for with that additional cost ? Very little if nothing - probably the reality is that they're paying for less service. The said company in Australia is I believe struggling. Hardly surprising I'm afraid

For the record, one of the two products purchased broke. The US Company supplied a replacement by international courier within 4 days and I returned the broken version back using a Courier label sent via email from the manufacturer.

Now I'm a great supporter of buying locally, but adding that amount and not supplying any additional service, and making it harder to purchase is simply lazy and amazingly greedy.



Alien Bees Studio/Strobist flash is my second example. I purchased an Alien Bees Ring Flash from Alien Bees in the US. Now they used to add an additional fee for all sales outside the US, but despite that, their prices were still very good. They no longer sell to Australia, as there is now supposedly an Australian distributor - who happens to be based in my own City. However the prices of all Alien Bees available in Australia is well in excess of US Prices - Ringflash Aus $585.20 - same item in the US US$399. Now the worse part about this is that Alien Bees will not sell to Australia because of their "Asia Distributor" - and the moral there ? Their loss. I simply wont / dont buy anymore from Alien Bees.

[Bennymiata]

If you think the differences between camera and lens prices from local and overseas suppliers is high, you should check out the prices of luxury cars.

For example, a new Mercedes that sells here for around $160K, sells in the US for $50K and the US version has more equipment on it that we get.
Porsche is the same.
In the US, the RRP for a basic 911 coupe is just US$77,800.00 + local taxes, and here, exactly the same car, with the steering wheel on the other side is, wait for it, $223,000!!!!!
How can they justify this HUGE difference?
We are certainly ripped off!

Canon and the other distributors wil learn that as their retailers close down, and major retailers no longer carrying their gear, they won't have much in the way of local sales to sustain the company, and that they will have to bargain harder with the manufacturer to get a world parity price.

I can see the time, which won't be too long, when most camera retailers will start buying their stock from OS rather than buy it here.
Sure, Canon Australia will take away their rights to retail THEIR products, but as they are selling genuine Canon gear, there's nothing they can do about it.
One of the major retailers like Harveys etc will wake up to this fact and they have the power to go and tell Canon to stick it.

Imagine say B&H decides to open a retail outlet here, and still sources it's stuff from America or Japan direct, what could Canon Australia do about it?
If Canon Japan says to them that they can't do this and if they do, they will take away Canon from them in the US, I think B&H would have the power, and the sales, to tell them they will just source elsewhere, or not carry Canon at all.
Wouldn't that be nice?

[Xenedis]

I'd have to concede that Australia seems to be seen as some sort of backwater place where consumers can be charged a lot more for the same goods than consumers in other markets.

B&M retail businesses are in general decline, with some (eg, music, video and book stores) already being marginalised and arguably living on borrowed time.

Maybe in time some more drastic results will materialise in the photography equipment arena, but fortunately in the mean time, consumers actually have a choice, and can easily and cheaply buy elsewhere. And they're doing it.

[Art Vandelay]

It's easy to have a go at the retailers in the online vs B & M debate.

But on the other side of the coin, there is a bucketload of consumers out there that are totally selfish and oblivious to reality. A couple of mates have retail businesses, 1 in fishing tackle, the other motorcycles. Both are regulary recounting tales of being used as a 'touch and feel' centre for people who have no intention of purchasing from them.

Like a lady & her son who come in looking at helmets for young johnny. The business has provided a premises, stock on hand in various brands,colours & sizes to choose from, and a knowledgable staff member to spend 20 to 30 minutes with. After trying on different sizes & giving his advice, the assistant is attempting to close the sale, when he is informed, "Oh, not we're not buying it from here, we're buying it on the interent, we just needed to see what size to order" .Or the guy who comes in wanting to swap a pair of boots for a different size because the ones he ordered online don't fit, or the chap who asks for every top end fishing reel from the display case to fiddle with and bleeds every piece of advice from the assistant on what's suitable for him, then comes in the next week bringing with him the reel he purchased online, and asking advice on how to adjust it correctly...

There are countless tales like this, and yes, most astute retailers will convert some of these over to sales from their store, but a growing number of 'customers' just don't get it. A business can't pay it's rent, staff wages and expenses by being a touch and feel centre for a drop shipping online business from Hong Kong.

I can honestly see both sides of this as I buy a lot from o/s as well (not just photographic gear), you just can't argue with the pricing differences. Most of that is from too many middlemen in our supply chains, not as excess profit by the retailer,,or even the GST. I also buy some items where I am paying a price difference,,,,,,, and getting service and advice in return. but anyway, just spare a thought for our retailers. Don't just use and abuse them. If buying online, good, go do it. If buying retail, good, go do it. Just don't go expecting the best of both worlds.

[Xenedis]

I agree that it's completely unfair to go into a B&M, seek advice from a salesperson, play with the gear, and then go home and order it online from a much less expensive supplier. It's rather horrid behaviour, actually.

I also agree that one shouldn't expect the B&M and online supplier to be on the same playing field when there are differentiators such as knowledgeable sales staff, goods at which one can look, etc.

What the B&M retail industry needs to realise very quickly is that people's shopping behaviour has changed.

There is a market of buyers, like myself, where service, staff advice and the ability to look at the goods isn't as important as procuring it quickly and cheaply, or isn't important at all.

If the B&M retail industry doesn't make some changes and adjust to the 21st century in line with consumer behaviour, it's going to end up high and dry. It's already happening.

B&Ms will soon enough become a niche market, and some kinds of stores will cease to exist altogether.

[rellik666]

I can't see the manufacturers changing there ways any time soon, as at the end of the day you are buying their product regardless of whether it is local or grey. It the distributers that need to change their ways and as long as they are making a profit they won't change.

Australia has been too slow to jump on the internet band wagon. As a consumer I want choice, availability and a good price. Show me an excellent website that is Aus based? I know of many in the UK and the US, yes they have economies of scale, but they also do what they say on tin, they have what I want, they provide advice and they deliver! There is one website here that I think is great, and because they deliver next day, don't charge huge fees for delivery and have a good range of products I use it. It isn't the cheapest, but it delivers.

If retail fees are 30% of the cost, why are people not setting up websites?

I also agree with the above about people trying things in stores....I won't do that I think it is wrong. If I need the advice of a store person I will at least give them the chance to sell it to me. And if it is something I know I am not going to be able to get at a good price, I wont bother.

The other thing is that stores are complaining about the cost of imports v GM, that if I had to pay full retail, I wouldn't be buying it. It isn't a choice of what shall I pay, it is choice of whether I have it or not.

[Bennymiata]

One other thing to consider is that many of the websites offer products that they do not have in stock, but merely order it on an as needs basis.
If you order an XYZ form them, they then get on the blower to their distributor and get on ein, then send itto you, so they don't have to keep anything in stock, therefore no big, expensive warehouse and no stock they have to put money up for to buy, so obviously their prices and margins can be lower.

I deal with a couple of websites, and that's exactly how they work.
I give them a sample of the product, they photograph it and put it up on their site, then when they get an order, they order it from me.

If too many people come into stores to suck the salesman's knowledge etc with out buying anything, it may get to the stage where retailers will charge you just to come through the door.
I know of one retailer in the US (they sell expensive mens wear) that charges $1500 to come through the door, and it is entry by appointment only.

Do we really want camera stores here to be like that?

Don't missunderstand me, I buy from OS, and I also buy locally so I have a foot in both camps.

[Xenedis]

One other thing to consider is that many of the websites offer products that they do not have in stock, but merely order it on an as needs basis.

That's something important to consider.

The two reputable online suppliers with which I've bought the majority of my gear, both state on a product page if they have it in stock.

When I bought my 300/2.8L IS back in 2006, I rang my supplier, asked if he had it in stock (he did), and then wandered up the road to collect it.

You may find that many of the online suppliers keep common items, but when it comes to a very specialised lens which doesn't sell in high numbers (eg, a 600/4 or something equally exotic), it's best to ask if it's actually in stock.

Bear in mind also that if you want a less-common item (like a 300mm prime), even a B&M will have to order it.

I went through that some years ago. I wanted a 300/4L IS, and the B&M had to order it. It took over a month to arrive from Canon Australia, which from memory had to import it from Canon in Japan. Had I purchased it online, I would have had it within days.

[KeeFy]

Oh the car price thing has been on my mind for a while now. I'll understand if it's like Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand where the taxes are extremely high. But in Aussie there is really no excuse. What i feel that's odd as well is how a 2nd hand car retains it's value so much. In the mentioned countries, prices takes easily a 10% hit to almost a 20% hit instantly the moment it's delivered to the customer! Over here it's miniscule by proportion.

On the flipside of it all, there are B&M retailers that are doing pretty decently due to their ability to adapt to current economic climates. It's the ones who have the "support local" beliefs that will fold.

[Scotty72]

I don't remember going into a shop to try on shoes (or whatever) with the intention of going to the Internet but, if people do it, so what if they do. Customers are under no legal or moral obligation to buy from a shop where they touch and feel. Do we feel sorry for my mate the mortgage broker, who has plenty of people have him come over, go through the sums etc but, then get the mortgage from another provider. Car salesmen would suffer the same fate as would anybody who provides a good or service for sale.

Really, it's business : you bait the hook and sometimes the fish gets away with the bait (I can see fishermen complaining to the ACCC about the behavior of fish).

The retailers should not be whinging about these customers; they should be asking themselves the hard question - why did they let a prospect get away.

There have been plenty of times I've walked into a shop with no intention of buying but, due to good salesmanship, I've walked out with a lot less $$$ in my pocket. The PMA exhibition was one eg. I had no intention of buying but, a sales guy dazzled me with a product - spent time convincing me.

SOLD!

[Xenedis]

I don't remember going into a shop to try on shoes (or whatever) with the intention of going to the Internet but, if people do it, so what if they do. Customers are under no legal or moral obligation to buy from a shop where they touch and feel.

Of course not, but if one has consciously decided in advance to buy online, but goes into a store to slurp knowledge and service from a salesperson and play with the toys, then it's behaviour I'd consider to be unfair and reprehensible.

While I am not loyal to B&Ms and while I advocate buying online from a cost-based perspective, I don't believe it's fair to exploit B&M salespeople by engaging in the sort of behaviour I described.



There have been plenty of times I've walked into a shop with no intention of buying but, due to good salesmanship, I've walked out with a lot less $$$ in my pocket. The PMA exhibition was one eg. I had no intention of buying but, a sales guy dazzled me with a product - spent time convincing me.

SOLD!

You really don't need that UV filter Scotty.

[Scotty72]

Of course not, but if one has consciously decided in advance to buy online, but goes into a store to slurp knowledge and service from a salesperson and play with the toys, then it's behaviour I'd consider to be unfair and reprehensible.


Completely disagree :p

I might walk into Store A with NO intention of buying from there. I could be just killing time whilst waiting for an appointment or, I could just be using them to drive down Store B's price.

Are they reprehensible things to do? No. It's called shopping around - browsing - life.




While I am not loyal to B&Ms and while I advocate buying online from a cost-based perspective, I don't believe it's fair to exploit B&M salespeople by engaging in the sort of behaviour I described.



You are not exploiting them: you are presenting them with a potential customer which, if they are good, will hook.

[Xenedis]

I might walk into Store A with NO intention of buying from there. I could be just killing time whilst waiting for an appointment or, I could just be using them to drive down Store B's price.

If you're playing off one B&M against another on price, I see no problem with that, as it's a relatively level playing field.

But if you've already decided upon an item, have specifically decided to buy it cheaply online, but visit a store to play with it or leech information from the sales staff, then IMO that's grossly unfair.

[Scotty72]

If you're playing off one B&M against another on price, I see no problem with that, as it's a relatively level playing field.

But if you've already decided upon an item, have specifically decided to buy it cheaply online, but visit a store to play with it or leech information from the sales staff, then IMO that's grossly unfair.

Retailers complaining about the internet is just like the candlestick maker complaining about Edison's light bulb.

[peterb666]

You really don't need that UV filter Scotty.

The large ones make reasonable drinks coasters.

[Scotty72]

The large ones make reasonable drinks coasters.

Excellent, single-use frisbees too

[Mark L]

So a while back I decided to buy a 550D, then the 60D arrived. Went into two major retailers to touch and feel. 60D felt good (550D to small). At that stage I had no idea about buying on w.w.w. but had sussed prises a little.
First retailer. I started saying "I'm going to buy the 60D, I've a bit of an idea of online prices............." He walked away saying"we can't compete with them, more overheads........" He walked away before I could finish saying I'd be quite happy to pay more to support Aussie business, get over warranty worries. Sale lost.
Second "normal" major retailer. I simply said "I'm going to buy the 60D from somewhere, what's the best price you can give me, body only, please?" Goes and checks his computer, and says " can't sell it body only, has to by sold with lens!" Sale lost.
We don't visit Sydney, so the w.w.w. is now our B&M. The best price Aust. online people still don't seem to be able to compete with people like B&H.
I blame the manufactures for the high prices.

[fess67]

not to tell you how to run your business, but did you ever think that whatever you were running out of a living room sized space @ 10,000 a month was not a very viable option?

No not really. Next time you go to a shopping centre food court have a look at the size of the premises. Most are pretty small. It was not viable for my business and of the other 11 stores there, 3 have closed and the others are suffering with tales of lost homes, divorces, bankruptcies etc. Just one of lifes learning opportunities I guess.

[enduro]

7D body only is still marked for $2399 on the Canon Website.

[Doninoz]

7D body only is still marked for $2399 on the Canon Website.

My distributor pricelist is showing current reseller price of $1,939.30...If I were to sell it at Canon's price I would make $459.70 and Canon would tell me as a reseller that that is a good margin!!! They can't see past margins for resellers so that's why they justify the price. The only thing is, I'm not going to be able to sell it at that price or even the cost price??? So I, like other resellers are in the same boat, we are captive to Canon's own high margins.

[Bennymiata]

That's a very small margin for the retailer.
In my business, the minimum markup is 50%, so if they buy something from me for say $100, they sell it for $200.

Department stores on the other hand buy my stuff for say $35.00, and one of them sell it for $100 (a 65% markup - that is the 65% is the profit they make out of the RRP).

The other major department stores makes a little less, 62%.
In other trades, the markup is even higher.

How can a B&M retailer work on such low morgins, unless you are selling the stuff hand over fist?

[KeeFy]

http://www.canon.com.sg/personal/productfinder?productfinder=personal-eos&languageCode=EN

Interesting that in Singapore, the RRP is the same. $2399. Singapore has 7% GST. BUT! AUDSGD is about 1.3. So that makes buying from Canon Singapore cheaper. $1927 from today's mid market FX. Which is cheaper than the distributor's price.

Go figure who's pockets are being lined when you buy locally.

So it comes down to a conundrum. Buy locally and line pockets of the big boys? Buy grey and kill the B&Ms?

[bricat]

Bennymiata ' In my business, the minimum markup is 50%, so if they buy something from me for say $100, they sell it for $200.' Sorry mate but that is 100% markup and 50%profit. Many people get fazed between the mark-up profit %. I work (sometimes) in an industry where they allow for 50% mark up hence 33% profit. When you take out costs of around 20% you are left with a very small margin. Great if you are turning over 10 million dollars etc. And who wants to work 7 days a week and 15 hours a day for that. The effort sometimes does not justify the rewards. And the manufacturer still makes their profit. And they work on huge margin. But they also have huge investments and costs too. :)

[balwoges]

I have always bought my cameras from Australian stores and my lenses from B&H. I don't visit shops to try out the lenses and then buy overseas as I think that's adding insult to injury to the retail store. I thoroughly research lenses online before I buy and as yet have not been disappointed with my choice.

I know Australian stores have to pay rent etc however IMHO it doesn't justify the markup on lenses. I was looking out for a price drop when the Australian $ went up and it just didn't happen.

[agb]

There is little excuse for the recommended retail price for a 5DII being $US 2499 in USA and $A4499, or the 7D being $US1699, vs $2399.