Image Selection for Competitions ?

[Dylan & Marianne]

I recently entered a New York based competition instead of entering Better Photography's competition this year (encouraged by some flickr friends as well as a better prize pool and cheaper entry!).

From looking at past winners, I don't think I have much of a chance as most of the winning images seem to be of people rather than landscapes (if any) - but maybe that's because not alot of landscapes were submitted??

Anyway, I never know what is a good image for competitions so I copped out and asked Marianne to sit with me to pick a a shortlist and then I culled them to a final selection based on gut feeling. These are some of them and clicking will you take you to the site.

I think that some of the aspects which get in the way of an objective selection include:
- The emotion invested with the given scene
- The effort it took to get the image
- How difficult or easy it was to get the image technically
- How difficult or easy it was to achieve the finali result in PP
- How you second guess yourself as to what judges might want in an image.

For those reasons, I tried to keep it simple and go by gut feeling alone - I'm not sure if this was a good ploy but only time will tell! What do you guys think about the topic and the selection I've made?



75531
(http://dylantoh.see.me/onelife2011/grid)

[Xenedis]

My general luck in competitions has been on the negative side, so I do have an inherent bias and strong sense of cynicism; but what I know is that you have strong images and could do well in competitions -- if you can get past the randomness, judging issues and moving goal posts inherent to that arena.

For me, the standout image in this selection is that of the rainbow over the castle. It was a rare moment and not something any mug could have captured.

From seeing your work I believe you have stronger images which I'd choose over some of those you've offered here, but, as is the case with judging, it's just a matter of preference and opinion.

I'm not familiar with the comp you've entered, but all I can say is that I hope you do well, and that you let the forum know if you have success.

[Michael]

Fantastic collection of photo's Dylan. Can I ask that the link to these photos is this what the judges see or do you submit actual photo's? Reason I ask is the one of Couta Rocks appears to have a (cropping?) problem around the bottom & left edges.
Other that that good luck; would love to get to some of these destinations, hopefully one day I will.

Mick

[Dylan & Marianne]

thanks for your input john! about the castle image, I was almost not going to include it because it didn't do very well in the better photography competition - I suspect some people think that you can just go out there and snap it!

Mick , thanks so much for pointing that out! I can't believe I never saw that! all along I've been presenting it with a white border so I haven't noticed it but it's definitely in the original file ! I better go change the submission lol - I owe you one :D

[Michael]

No probs, hope you do well. For me it's Annapurna South from Annapurna Base Camp, Nepal. Either way they are all worthy.

[Xenedis]

thanks for your input john! about the castle image, I was almost not going to include it because it didn't do very well in the better photography competition - I suspect some people think that you can just go out there and snap it!

Yikes. That surprises me, as BP competitions usually have very experienced judges who are themselves accomplished photographers.

I rarely see a rainbow with my own eyes, let alone in some fantastic Scottish or Icelandic location which happens to have a castle, in beautiful lighting conditions, when I happen to have my landscape photography rig poised.

But I'm sure anyone with an iPhone can shoot that. ;-)

[Dylan & Marianne]

lol john - I should get myself an iphone one day a start a "pick the DSLR vs iphone image" thread

[Xenedis]

lol john - I should get myself an iphone one day a start a "pick the DSLR vs iphone image" thread

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a movement of iPhone shooters out there, producing quite good images. I've not looked into it, but it's the sort of thing I can imagine happening.

The camera in the current generation (iPhone 4) seems quite good, but the camera in the 3GS (the model I have) is fairly ordinary. I use mine for snapshots and other documentary stuff -- not for proper photography.

[mikew09]

Hi Dylan, I would'nt put any faith in my judging capabilities but the shots with the birds is one of the images that really stood out for me when I seen it in the collection screen you posted earlier this month.
Hopefully you will get more experienced help than mine though.

[William]

:( I'm in the same boat Dylan, There is a comp at the Local shopping centre , $500 1st, $200 2nd , $100 3rd, Open category , Buggered if I can pick which one I should enter , They have to be 16x20 inches (Mounted size) on strong Matt Board no thicker than 4mm , I'm gunna do mine on Fuji Pearl , Had a quote from the printers and framers for $55 , At least I get to keep the print :rolleyes: How do I pick the best one ? :confused013

[Dylan & Marianne]

No idea bill lol - I guess pick heaps then gradually cull down would be the only thing I could say that would help!
glad I included the birds then mike !
john, I'm still using a nokia from the 90s lol

[Xenedis]

john, I'm still using a nokia from the 90s lol

Yikes.

I had Nokia phones from 1996 to 2009 (five in that time), at which point I moved to an iPhone.

I couldn't go back to Nokia at this stage.

[Dylan & Marianne]

I forgot to add, I'm still on an archaic $9 plan haha - mostly incoming calls from work :P no incentive to change as yet hehe

[Art Vandelay]

What a wonderful selection to choose from. :D

I'll step out here, and whilst not a landscape photographer here's two bobs worth from an observer.
With the rainbow image (stunning as it is) is that the castle is centred, and the rainbow is near symmetrical. That maybe seen as a negative.. then again to others, it maybe a positive. Bit risky. That's the unknown of judging I suppose.

[Nikkie]

Good luck Dylan I don't think you need I will never be game to enter competitions differently not now and probable not in the future I will never get that good but I admire people like you for giving it a try all the best :th3:

[mikew09]

Good luck Dylan I don't think you need I will never be game to enter competitions differently not now and probable not in the future I will never get that good but I admire people like you for giving it a try all the best :th3:

Never say never Nikkie ;)

[Geoff79]

The only comp experience I have (and more than likely will ever have, I dare say) is on this site and even with only my crabby snaps to sort through, I have folders full of potential shots I can't decide on! :D

I can certainly see your dilemma, Dylan. It's one thing to pick a photo you like, but often even within a circle of family and friends everyone will favour a different image. Trying to select an image that you think will appeal most to a group of strangers? Who knows, mate? I don't think there's any technique as such. Probably a lot of luck. But having so many stunning photos to offer means there probably isn't a "bad" choice you could make. ;)

Good luck with the comps! My personal vote from that lot would probably go the one of the reflected hill on the bottom left. :)

[terry.langham]

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a movement of iPhone shooters out there, producing quite good images. I've not looked into it, but it's the sort of thing I can imagine happening.

The camera in the current generation (iPhone 4) seems quite good, but the camera in the 3GS (the model I have) is fairly ordinary. I use mine for snapshots and other documentary stuff -- not for proper photography.

Here 'tis (http://www.iphoneography.com/) John. There has also been a few articles in some of the bigger photography mags as well, which makes me wonder how long til there is a subforum on AP for iphoneography.

Dylan: Can't offer much help on the competitions side of things as I often look at winners of magazine comps and find them uninteresting and dull, but perhaps technically good. If you are able to enter a number of images, then maybe go for a variety of different types that may appeal to wider audience.

[Lance B]

These are wonderful images, Dylan.

Do you need to narrow it down to just one image, or are all to be submitted.

If it is just one, then for me it is the rainbow over the castle ruins, Ardvreck Castle, Scotland. I think that is a gem as it has a subject, the ruin, and a secondary sudject, the rainbow and is simply a gorgeous photo. The central positioning of the ruins is ok here as the rainbow dictates that it all needed to be centred. I just love that photo! :th3:

I would be more than proud of any of these images as they are all excellent. However, my take on the others:

Couta Rocks, Tasmania. Great shot, but doesn't quite hit home for me to win a competition as it is just rocks and water, albeit superbly done!
Cataract Gorge, Tasmania. This is beautiful, but just doesn't quite make it, IMO.
Elgol, Scotland. Again, like Couta Rocks above, a beautiful image, but doesn't quite hit home for me to win a competition as it is just rocks and water, albeit superbly done!
Annapurna South from Annapurna Base Camp, Nepal. A superb composition, but the movement of one of the people just takes the egde off it.
Annapurna South from Poon Hill, Nepal. Another beautiful image, but it is just of a mountain and has no real impact other than that.
Geysir Geothermal Area, Iceland. Great shot of the Geysir, but I think the people in tha background detract from the image.
Laugavegur Hike, Iceland. Another beautiful image and the starkness of the landscape, the wonderful colouring with the two lonely people on it really hits home, but it just doesn't quit make it to win a comp, IMO.
Godafoss, Iceland. Another gem of an image, but I think that the central location of the rock just tips it out of the competition.
Kirkjufell, Iceland. That is a superb composition and would be my second choice.
Kirkjufjara, Iceland. Excellent shot, but the central positioning of the rock just tips it against it. I realise that the central location lines up with the island in the distance, but it just doesn't quite make it, IMO.
Jokulsarlon, Iceland. My 3rd choice. Wonderful composition and colouring.

I would have included Cradle Mountain, Tasmania, in the mix as it is a gem, too and my 4th pick. :)

As I said above, they are all superb images and I would be more than proud to have taken any of them and so should you!

Cheers,
Lance

[Dylan & Marianne]

What a wonderful selection to choose from. :D

I'll step out here, and whilst not a landscape photographer here's two bobs worth from an observer.
With the rainbow image (stunning as it is) is that the castle is centred, and the rainbow is near symmetrical. That maybe seen as a negative.. then again to others, it maybe a positive. Bit risky. That's the unknown of judging I suppose.

that's what I thought in retrospect too - broke the thirds rule , discarded!

[Dylan & Marianne]

These are wonderful images, Dylan.

Do you need to narrow it down to just one image, or are all to be submitted.

If it is just one, then for me it is the rainbow over the castle ruins, Ardvreck Castle, Scotland. I think that is a gem as it has a subject, the ruin, and a secondary sudject, the rainbow and is simply a gorgeous photo. The central positioning of the ruins is ok here as the rainbow dictates that it all needed to be centred. I just love that photo! :th3:

I would be more than proud of any of these images as they are all excellent. However, my take on the others:

Couta Rocks, Tasmania. Great shot, but doesn't quite hit home for me to win a competition as it is just rocks and water, albeit superbly done!
Cataract Gorge, Tasmania. This is beautiful, but just doesn't quite make it, IMO.
Elgol, Scotland. Again, like Couta Rocks above, a beautiful image, but doesn't quite hit home for me to win a competition as it is just rocks and water, albeit superbly done!
Annapurna South from Annapurna Base Camp, Nepal. A superb composition, but the movement of one of the people just takes the egde off it.
Annapurna South from Poon Hill, Nepal. Another beautiful image, but it is just of a mountain and has no real impact other than that.
Geysir Geothermal Area, Iceland. Great shot of the Geysir, but I think the people in tha background detract from the image.
Laugavegur Hike, Iceland. Another beautiful image and the starkness of the landscape, the wonderful colouring with the two lonely people on it really hits home, but it just doesn't quit make it to win a comp, IMO.
Godafoss, Iceland. Another gem of an image, but I think that the central location of the rock just tips it out of the competition.
Kirkjufell, Iceland. That is a superb composition and would be my second choice.
Kirkjufjara, Iceland. Excellent shot, but the central positioning of the rock just tips it against it. I realise that the central location lines up with the island in the distance, but it just doesn't quite make it, IMO.
Jokulsarlon, Iceland. My 3rd choice. Wonderful composition and colouring.

I would have included Cradle Mountain, Tasmania, in the mix as it is a gem, too and my 4th pick. :)

As I said above, they are all superb images and I would be more than proud to have taken any of them and so should you!

Cheers,
Lance

Thanks so much for the feedback Lance :) They're all submitted since after a certain number of pictures, it's a flat rate for up to 20.
I think I was possibly influenced to pick some of them in that they have been successful on other sites (eg the Couta Rock one) - I actually didn't think much of the kirkjufell one until all of a sudden it was well received posting it on other sites - I still actually struggle to see it being one of the better pictures lol.
As for Geysir, that one I picked purely because some random editorial person picked it for publishing in popular photography - faults and all!

thanks again - there's some good insight there!

[rellik666]

Hi Dylan, I have to agree with Lance here....you have some amazing photos and to me these don't really cut it as your best.

(these are all way better than I could expect to do though)

To me these are all beautiful images but I think to do well in a competotion it needs to tell a story.
Some of your people shots from Nepal are amazing, why none of these or is there a theme to consider.
Also where is that photo from (basecamp???:() with all the small tents in and the mountains in the background? (tried to find it on here but can't! :o Hopeless! Sorry)

You have so many wow pictures....and these are just beautiful pictures.....my fav of the lot you have there is "Laugavegur Hike, Iceland. Another beautiful image and the starkness of the landscape, the wonderful colouring with the two lonely people on it really hits home, but it just doesn't quit make it to win a comp, IMO." I agree with Lance again!

Sorry....but what do i know.....I know I like all of em....but it ain't me that is judging them!

Roo

[Dylan & Marianne]

thanks for the feedback Roo :)
In terms of telling a story, the pictures I've chosen were meant to identify a location (or so I thought) - for the reason that I don't like posting pictures of 'just rocks' or just another mountain - the idea of say the Couta rocks image was to show the characteristic kind of rugged coastline of the NW tassie, the bridge image to identify it as being cataract gorge, the Elgol image with the black cuillins in the background , the prayer flags indicating the nepalese himalaya, the profile of annapurna south characteristic as view from Poon Hill , the hikers with the charactersitic landmannalaugar mountains in the background etc.
however, if these messages are not getting through, then you're right, perhaps I haven't conveyed that message through at all if all you are seeing is 'just another mountain' shot.
I think the tent shot with the icelandic mountains in the background was one I avoided because the first reaction of many was that all I did to it was hit the boost saturation button - which I was afraid was what the instant opinion of judges might be! (second guessing :P)

[Dylan & Marianne]

thanks roo for the feedback
i didn't include the camp picture with the icelandic mountains in the background because I thought that it would be very easy to see the saturation and think of it as a cheap 'boost saturation' PP job
all of the images I had hoped conveyed a sense of where they were taken (ie I hate pictures of 'just rock' but the couta rocks one for instance was supposed to show the colour and ruggedness of the NW tassie coast, the hiker one showing the charactersitic rhyolite background, the annapurna one identified as nepal from the prayer flag etc.)
given that I can't explain that to the judges and you and lance haven't seen those messages, then I guess I haven't been successful in picking the pictures that tell the story they're supposed to!

[rellik666]

.......the annapurna one identified as nepal from the prayer flag .....

See I think you are right here, but to me the others are not recognisable so I don't see the story. It may be different if you know the place, but sometimes I think you have to detach from where it is a bit because you have an emotional input from being there.....Sorry if this doesn't make any sense...but if I was a judge and didn't know the place would I have an emotional response?

Some of my favs of yours.....still can't find the tent one! :(

http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/seljaladsfoss-7200/1170933076_Zp7AU-XL.jpg
http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/Jokulsarlon-dawn-pano/1008033820_fR78q-XL.jpg
http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/Iceland-reflection-1-of-1/1129714407_JKy7s-XL.jpg

Just seen this one is up there......don't think the small size is helping your cause....this one is brill larger!

http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/Jokulsarlon-ice-7609/1008033413_w6oHk-L.jpg

I think maybe you need to be less critical of the technicalities and more about the image as whole....a stunning image is one that is both emotional and technically good....doesn't have to be perfect becuase if it sucks you in....you aren't going to notice the so called bad bits! :th3:

[Xenedis]

I think maybe you need to be less critical of the technicalities and more about the image as whole....a stunning image is one that is both emotional and technically good....doesn't have to be perfect becuase if it sucks you in....you aren't going to notice the so called bad bits! :th3:

If Dylan is anything like me, the "bad bits" will discount such images from the running.

Nobody notices (and is bothered by) the bad bits more than the photographer... and judges.

[rellik666]

Do you think? Look I am not talking about my bad bits....they are bad bits....but what am talking about is small technicalities that do not detract from the bigger picture.

I suppose it depends on what the judges are marking it against...to me something that pulls you emotionally is always going to win over something that is purely technically correct.

[Xenedis]

Do you think? Look I am not talking about my bad bits....they are bad bits....but what am talking about is small technicalities that do not detract from the bigger picture.

Sure, but to someone who is a perfectionist, "small technicalities that do not detract from the bigger picture" stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.



I suppose it depends on what the judges are marking it against...to me something that pulls you emotionally is always going to win over something that is purely technically correct.


I tend to agree.

[Dylan & Marianne]

I think the problem is that I do personally get bothered by those imperfections techinically lol (maybe I should learn to not worry so much - who knows!)

Roo, it's interesting, but I wouldn't have chosen rated the 1st and 3rd images you linked very highly
I do really like my pink Jokulsarlon picture but once again , an ill flavoured response from previous entry into competitions swayed me against including it
The iceberg one - it was a tough call to include that one vs the one I put in - Marianne's choice was the balance of power in this case !

[mongo]

First, let Mongo say any one of these images is worthy of entry into serious completion.
Mongo also agrees about the idiosyncrasies /unpredictability of the judges from time to time. However, that should never be a basis for not entering. You should know your work is good – if someone else does not understand it – that’s their problem !
For Mongo’s 2 cents worth from competition experience, and even though it may sound too cliché, #1 and the B&W (second last) are Mongo’s 2 picks.
One of the biggest problems you will have is that all our collective advice will also differ and disagree with each other - and , ultimately, be of no real help to you making a selection
A lot has been said about the castle. Yes, it is a great image but , depending on the rules in relation to manipulation (if there are any in the contest you which to enter), this may be seen as a created situation rather than an actual capture. If it were to be seen that way by the judges, Mongo feels it will not do anywhere near as well as the other images you have to offer. Just Mongo's 2 cents worth.
Whatever you decide, the very best of luck to you.

[Dylan & Marianne]

thanks mongo ! couldnt' agree more about the variation in opinion - I was interested to see if I was completely off the ballpark (from the listed biases) or kind of on it based on your collective thoughts - it has been a great exercise so far (for me anyway!)

[rellik666]

Glad you have enjoyed our collective non knoweldge of what the judges may like! ;)

I think the general feeling is we love your photos! :th3:

[Lance B]

See I think you are right here, but to me the others are not recognisable so I don't see the story. It may be different if you know the place, but sometimes I think you have to detach from where it is a bit because you have an emotional input from being there.....Sorry if this doesn't make any sense...but if I was a judge and didn't know the place would I have an emotional response?

Some of my favs of yours.....still can't find the tent one! :(

http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/seljaladsfoss-7200/1170933076_Zp7AU-XL.jpg
http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/Jokulsarlon-dawn-pano/1008033820_fR78q-XL.jpg
http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/Iceland-reflection-1-of-1/1129714407_JKy7s-XL.jpg

Just seen this one is up there......don't think the small size is helping your cause....this one is brill larger!

http://www.everlookphotography.com/Iceland/Iceland-2010/Jokulsarlon-ice-7609/1008033413_w6oHk-L.jpg

I think maybe you need to be less critical of the technicalities and more about the image as whole....a stunning image is one that is both emotional and technically good....doesn't have to be perfect becuase if it sucks you in....you aren't going to notice the so called bad bits! :th3:

Some excellent choices from Dylan pics!

[geoffsta]

As usual Dylan they are all great images. All winners in my eyes.
But judges can be such fickle creatures. I seen a few competitions with some images that are absolutely spectacular (almost as good as yours) but what wins the comp is complete crap.
I, as some here have seen a competition with a theme of "Everyday Lives". It had all sorts of images, some I believe had nothing to do with the theme. Including nudes. If there are people that run around every day in the nude, I'd be surprised.
The other thing about those competitions is you get to see 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If you don't win, you don't get to see how your image faired overall.

[Dylan & Marianne]

geoff, that's why I liked the better photography competition - because they attempted to give you a score out of 100 for each image you presented.
this year I thought I'd try something new and will feedback to this forum if the result was any good in terms of feedback.