Please help... I finally have enough cash to buy mt 60D!!!

[Cobalt Blue]

After months of saving I finally have enough cash to buy my first dSLR:D

I've decided on the Canon 60D but am unsure witch package to buy. I've heard that the kit lenses aren't much chop but I really am a newb:o

I've found 2 packages on line and I'll list them both and then hopefully get lots of feedback on which is the better buy and why... Thanks in advance!

Package 1 ;
Price: $1418

Canon 60D body
Canon 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

also comes with an extra battery, SD card and camera bag.


Package 2;

Price: $1469

Canon 60D body
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS (kit lens)
Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS (kit lens)
Canon 50mm f/1.8

I will be using it to take pics of my kids and hopefully land and sea scapes. Also have a love of animals!

Advice is muchly apreciated
Teressa

[Wayne]

Both kits will be fine for what you noted as being your subjects, but, at just 85mm as the longest focal length in kit 1, you will soon find yourself wanting more reach if you want to branch out into other genre's.

At a guess, the 17-85 is a better lens than the twin lens kit, but I'm not a Canonite, so can't be sure if that particular 17-85 is good glass or just more kit glass, I suspect the latter.
If you intend to get pro glass down the track, then perhaps the twin kit (2) will be better as for now you will have more focal lengths covered.

[ricktas]

Considering your interests lie in portraiture and land/seascapes, I would say see if you cannot get someone to do you up a package that includes

Sigma 10-20
Canon 50mm f.18
and then add in your 18-55 or so

If landscapes are one of your goals something wider than the 18mm would be useful.

[Kevin M]

for general shooting package 2 would appear to be the better option as the lens on offer will potentially cover a wider spectrum of subject matter for you.
i.e. you have the 18-55mm lens for your scenic/landscape type shots and possibly for the kid /family shots too (with the sensor crop factor effectively a 28mm - 90mm lens approx) and the 50mm 1.8 lens also a reasonably decent/good lens for head/shoulder type portraits too. Though you would still need to buy memory card and possibly a camera bag on top of this.

package one obviously offers a memory card and camera bag though you might possibly be left wanting to purchaase another lens later on, in the likely event that your photographic skills develop/improve (hopefullY) . :)

[triptych]

I'd go for kit 1...the 17-85 is better than then other 2 kit lenses and the nifty fifty aint bad either...

[Mark L]

Good news for you
I've been in a similar boat to you, however I already have a couple of lens, so needed body only. On Sunday I ordered 60D from site sponsor at a good price here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/732047-REG/Canon_4460B003_EOS_60D_DSLR_Camera.html). (it seems to go in and out of stock every few days.)
You'll need to check out their lens prices of course.
Good luck.

[arthurking83]

If the pricing is advantageous to do so, I'd be tempted to go for :

60D
Tamron 28-75mm/2.8(for speed, not reach)
nifty fifty 50/1.8
Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6

Speed is everything in some instances, and a from what you've described these lenses would help you achieve many of your interests with a particular view to producing better images than 'your current camera'
(which may possibly be a point and shoot).

the kit lens will not allow you as many options for subject isolation as you;d ideally want to allow yourself the pleasure of. Subject isolation is an important aspect of portraiture, but not limited by it!
Talk portraiture and the first thing almost everyone mentions is fast aperture, whereas long focal length can also be of assistance.
Combine long focal length and fast(ish) aperture and you have a more capable lens.

I don't know of Canon pricing, but as a guide to pricing, the Tammy 28-75/2.8 can be had for approx mid three hundreds.

if you can avoid it, try not to get into the 'all in one lens type' at the beginning of your photographic path.
Get some images some constructive critique, and some experience on how to make best use of what you have under your belt to begin with, and then go for an all in one lens to help you travel lightly.

if you believe that you have an interest in photography, then follow that interest as an interest should be followed .. with at least some passion.
(I can't see or understand how any kit type/all in one lens could ever lead one to develop a passion for photography! :confused:)

[Tannin]

Hi Teressa,

Are you seeing a pattern emerging in the answers? It's a very clear pattern once you key in on it. The Nikon users and one lonely Canon owner are looking at the specs of the lenses you see on offer and, quite reasonably, seeing three lenses for (almost) the price of two, plus a significantly longer total focal length range and saying "go for package 2".

The ones who know their Canon gear are all saying exactly the opposite. here is why:

The Canon 18-55 IS is a very, very cheap, flimsy, all-plastic lens with a rotating front element (forget about using filters) and a stepper focus motor (think loud, slow, unpleasant to use, and not very reliable). It does, however, have amazingly good optics for the price - and you'd have to say pretty decent optics even ignoring the price. (I have owned two of them - one was the older pre-IS version, which wasn't as sharp - and know this lens very well.)
The Canon 55-150 IS is a longer equivalent to the 18-55 IS, but not quite so impressive on the optical side. I have shot with one of these and my initial delight at the sharpness delivered by such a cheap, reasonably long lens quickly turned to dissatisfaction at the practical difficulty of getting quick, accurate focus. That slow, crunchy stepper focus system really struggles with the longer focal length (where focus accuracy become vital). Build quality is the same as the 18-55 IS - i.e., poor, and this one also has a rotating front element to put filters pretty much off the menu.
The Canon 17-85 IS is a very different animal. It has the same build quality as the famous Canon EF-S lenses like the 10-22 and the 60mm macro - i.e., excellent. It is made using metal instead of plastic and is precision engineered with no nasty compromised to save a dollar. The focus motor is a fast, quiet, reliable ring USM unit, and the front element does not rotate (much better!). This was designed to be a genuine quality lens, and sold for close to $1000 for most of its market life. However it rightly copped a lot of criticism for optical faults - in particular barrel distortion at the wide end (think bent horizon), and chromatic aberration (think purple fringing, especially when shooting into the light). Eventually, Canon recognised that the EF-S 17-85 IS wasn't good enough optically to justify its high price, and designed a replacement for it, the Canon EF-S 15-85 IS which maintains the excellent handling and build quality of the older lens, sorts out the optical issues, and adds a wider wide end (15mm is very wide for a general-purpose lens!). It is universally regarded as excellent - but you will pay quite a lot more. However, do not let the chorus of criticism of the old 17-85 blind you to its strengths. Yes, it isn't perfect optically, but nothing much under $1000 or so is, and it's by no means bad. If a $200 lens had these optics we would all be running around saying how good it was! Now that the 15-85 is replacing it, the 17-85 can be picked up quite cheaply - as you can see from those packages above.


Many a beginner has started with cheap and nasty kit lenses. (I did too, an 18-55 non-IS; but I paid top dollar for a 100-400L to go with it because I wanted to go birding and even then I had learned that in long glass quality is essential - you just don't have the room for error that you do with shorter stuff.) It does no harm to start with a cheapie, no harm at all - but when you can have a precision engineered 17-85 for the price of two cheap and slightly nasty kit lenses, well, why not? It's not perfect, but it will last for many years and stand up to things that the plastic things just won't tolerate. Plus that extra 1mm wider really is a lot more than you'd think. Worth having.

Am I recommending kit #1 then? Well, almost. First, ask then if they can do you a package with the EF-S 15-85 IS instead. It will cost more, of course, but if you can stretch to it, it is pretty close to perfect.

Oh and a PS: the 50/1.8 is a good idea but not essential. You can pick one up later for about $100. It has the same strengths and weaknesses as the 18-55 - flimsy, clumsy, rotating front element, remarkably sharp for the money. A 60mm EF-S macro beats it in every possible way, but will cost maybe four times as much. Leave these till later if you like.

[Tannin]

The Nikon users and one lonely Canon owner are looking at the specs of the lenses you see on offer and, quite reasonably, seeing three lenses for (almost) the price of two, plus a significantly longer total focal length range and saying "go for package 2". The ones who know their Canon gear are all saying exactly the opposite.

Oh. Except for Arthur. :eek: Arther is saying something completely different.

Teressa, meet Arthur. Arthur, meet Teressa. :)

[arthurking83]

:D


Me saying something completely different?? By what standard?

According to my (usual)standard I'm saying everything in a completely repetitive and consistent manner :p


.. Oh! ... and Hello Teressa. :)

FWIW, I got my first kit lens at #11. That is, my eleventh lens was finally of a kit type!

... and to be honest it isn't even mine! I got it for my son who just wants to occasionally take photos with my old D70s, which I gave to him a long time back when he kept pestering me if he could use my camera, even tho I got him a Kodak P&S to play with and destroy as he pleased.. etc, etc.

AND!! .. you know what(he's currently 11 and he's had it now since he was 8) .. he still prefers to use my 105mm macro lens, because it can focus in really closely and do cool stuff like that! :D)

[Cobalt Blue]

Thanks everyone... so much to think about now!

I can get the 60D with the 15 - 85mm for a little over $1700, it just means saving for another month and then my hubby has said I can get either the 50mm 1.4 or the 60mm macro for my birthday! That may be the way to go for me because it wont always be plausibe for me to buy extra glass. I have 3 growing boys to feed:D. So to have the 2 really good lenses will last me longer.... i think??? :o

Thanks again everyone!

T

I just got so excited that I'd finally saved the $1500 that I got a little impatient

[Tannin]

Perfect! That is a great way to go. :)

[Kym]

Wot Arfur said!!

The 28-75 is excellent, and the 10-20 is used by many on this site.

[ving]

the above advice is all good, but i dont know that the suggested lenses are going to give you the reach you want for animals (unless you are talking about pets)...

[William]

Well done everybody, Good informative thread !! :th3: From a Canon user :p , Originally I would have gone with Package #1 , Fairly sure you should be able to get a 2nd hand Siggy 10-20 for around $400, Well I paid $450 3yrs ago !! , I will sadly have to pass on mine when I go full frame :(

[Mark L]

I can get the 60D with the 15 - 85mm for a little over $1700, i

These people are at Bankstown []=a58a8268-4946-4121-8912-f53ba8efa0ea&catalog[search][spec_value_ids][207146][]=9997921&catalog[search][spec_value_ids][207062][]=9984866&catalog[search][price][min]=&catalog[search][price][max]=]link here (http://fotofriends.com.au/shop-online.html?catalog[decision_model_guids)
They have a couple of packages ( scroll down two the second last one )

[Tannin]

Not bad, Mark. But the EF-S 18-135 isn't anywhere near the quality of the EF-S 15-85. It's probably superior optically to the old 17-85, and has better build quality than the 18-55 and 55-250, but it doesn't have a proper ring USM focus motor. Unless the price difference is huge, I'd still recommend the 15-85 or, at a pinch, the 17-85. Come to that, the 18-55 IS is sharp enough, and i is giveaway cheap, so there is something to be said for starting with the free one (almost free) and buying a good one later.

Choices, choices, choices ... it never stops, does it? :(

[Scotty72]

3 kids hey.

I reckon if you sold one, you get enough for a good lens. :lol: