Serious competitions: Am I good enough?

[Xenedis]

Some recent discussions and contemplation on my part have caused me to give some consideration to entering serious photography competitions. Perhaps as a challenge, perhaps as a way of gauging my level of photography in the eyes of a much wider audience, and perhaps as a positive self-esteem boost.

Last year I abandoned all forms of competition out of sheer frustration at my inability to do well. I also stopped shooting, and it took a while for me to get back into it again.

In recent months I have been encouraged, by a professional photographer I know, to enter the APPAs, as well as a state-based competition. He believes I have material that would definitely make the grade. As someone who has taken out awards at the APPAs, and who has fantastic work, I tend to take his opinions seriously.

In the past, I entered club-level competitions, and sure, I won some awards here and there, but seldom enough to give me any inkling that I have what it takes.

I have also entered many times on AP, but only ever won twice.

Now, I realise that camera club competitions, AP competitions and major competitions such as the APPAs are all very different, and cannot reasonably be compared.

Point in case: A photographer friend of mine has also won nationals with an image that was overlooked at the camera club level.

I believe I have good images (and maybe some that could make the grade in a serious competition), but there are good images, and there are good images.

Bridging the gap between 'okay photographer' and 'good photographer' is a relatively small step. Bridging the gap between 'great photographer' and 'outstanding photographer' is so much harder. The higher you go, smaller is the difference between great and outstanding, and the effort to bridge the gap is so much more difficult.

In my somewhat negatively coloured experience, I have found competitions to be a minefield, with no clear rules as to what will do well and what will be passed over.

At PMA yesterday, I saw some silver award-winning images that to my eyes weren't all that brilliant. On the other hand, there were some stunning images that deserved their accolades.

I have seen two different judges, on separate occasions, judge one specific image (not mine). The first time, the image, which to my eyes was extremely mediocre at all levels, was caned; the next judge who judged it a month later loved it, and to my astonishment, gave it an award.

I have seen inconsistency in judging. I have seen very informative, educated and experienced judging. I have seen some quite sloppy judging.

I am also aware that if a judge has a bias for or against given genres, it can work for or against you.

Some images that do well in one competition, or in the eyes of one judge, will fail dismally in another arena.

It makes it difficult to know where one stands.

We all like to think we're good enough. Someone's uninformed "This is an outstanding image!" comment can give us a false opinion of our work. That comment, when it comes from someone who doesn't know better, simply means "I really like this image a lot", not "You should enter this in the APPAs".

We can all be a little tunnel-visioned about which of our images are top-notch and which would be sure-fire competition winners. I cannot really go into serious competitions without a more objective view.

So, apart from being interested in the opinions of excellent photographers who have had experience in terms of publication and competition success at serious levels, I would be interested to hear from those people whether I have images that stand a fighting chance.

My personal favourite images, from which I would select images to consider for competition entry, are located here:

http://www.xenedis.net/viewalbum.php?a=72057594074635175

Now, there's some stuff in there that to me is a favourite image for whatever reason, but which I'd never enter into a serious competition.

So, to those who have experience with serious comps, I'd be interested in your feedback.

[kiwi]

You'll never know unles you have a crack

[Xenedis]

You'll never know unles you have a crack

Granted, but I wouldn't try to compete in an event that's well beyond my current capability.

[Roosta]

With Darren, There's always differences of opion in what someone see's in a shot, don't be boyed by some negitive reviews, you've produced some wonderful images, and a couple for me I didn't really enjoy, but thats the thing mate, personaly taste and people's perspective. Some judges can't leave that behind, it is comman in most forms of competition where we can't remove the human factor.

Give it a go, I hope you do well, If you don't give it a go, well, your self doubt is working to well, or you've set yourself a very low rate to fail. You'll never know if you don't.

Have a crack.

[Analog6]

I am in exactly the same position. You are fortunate indeed to have found someone to mentor you, it is really helpful. One factor to remember is that ours is a very subjective art - how the judge(s) feel, if the subject has any personal resonance with them, if it is very different to other images in the class, if they are having a good day - a bad drive to the venue could be enough to put someone in a crappy mood! - etc are all relevant factors, and they are all beyond your control. You have some very fine images in there, and you have to bite the bullet sometime.

[Darey]

John,
I have seen quite a bit of your work and believe you have some competition winning quality shots.
Give it a go and you will never die wondering.

[old dog]

how do they select the judges? Personally, I keep putting my best pics in for the POTW and POTM etc, been close, in the top 5 a couple of times. Gets a little disgruntleing at times missing out but I keep having a go. I`d just keep at it X and enjoy just being able to take good photos anyway should keep you happy.

[mikew09]

I may not be qualified to comment as I am still early in my photography path and have not won any comps as yet but I am sure I am qualified to tell a worthy shot and a not so worthy photo. I have seen quite a number of your photo's and I do beleive you are short selling yourself. I have seen some cracka's you have taken and should definately be entered - abd of course, no ever shot is a cracka but you already know that ;-). I see it this way, first your photo's need to be good enough to enter of which yours definately are and secondly, educating yourself to the style of photo the competition is actually looking for which you may or may not have but you will gain knowledge from entering such comps - definately go for it. OH! and proudly brag on AP when you win the big one :-).

[ricktas]

You know what, and with respect, each competition can have only one winner. Not entering cause you can't/haven't won in the past is something kids do. "I'm not playing any more cause you always win, I am taking my bat and ball and I'm going home".

Whilst I agree that judging in any photography competition is purely what captures the imperfect eye and vision of each judge at the time, and that the results may not be what you, I or anyone else expect, giving up entering cause of that is the kids way of playing the game.

The only way to win, is to enter. The only person being handicapped by the approach of not entering is yourself. Just the experience of entering, listening to, or reading the judges comments about your entry, and that of others, including the winners, is the only way to go. After all, you might just get an insight into specific judges and be able to enter something that you know they will like more, when they are judging next. It is all part of playing the game, in this artistic endeavour we pursue, called photography.

[mechawombat]

Xenedis

I am with Mike and Rick on this one

I have entered a comp years ago with a pic and did not even get a look in by the judges, however the comments from people who mattered (professional photographers) about the shot said it should have done better

That same photo, I posted on here in my first POTW comp and won:cool:

Your mentor has said to you that they think your shots are ready to be entered so why not. in the words of some little shoe company

JUST DO IT :th3:

[Jules]

Photography is an art, not a science. You can't hope to understand or pre-determine all the factors that go into individual judges' decisions. You've just got to give it a go.

Personally, I think you take some really stunning images, so I don't think you'd be wasting your time by entering serious competitions.

[Taxxy]

You always hear about the success stories but never how many times one failed to get there! I agree with the others.

[Mark L]

In recent months I have been encouraged, by a professional photographer I know, to enter the APPAs, as well as a state-based competition. He believes I have material that would definitely make the grade. As someone who has taken out awards at the APPAs, and who has fantastic work, I tend to take his opinions seriously.


:confused013:confused013

[Kym]

Competitions are judged subjectively.
I'm constantly surprised at the camera club, images that we members think are great get shredded by the guest judge and vice versa.
Even here on AP we mods are sometimes surprised as to what polls well.
Back when we had a judging panel here on AP their pick was often different from the popular pick.
So IMHO don't take it too seriously.

And your right, I've seen stunning images not win major comps, and what I think are good but not brilliant take out the prize.

[Dylan & Marianne]

My advice to you is to just go ahead and do it!
You have a great deal of stunning images and people here have reaffirmed that many a time.
Whether a photograph does well in a competition or not really boils down to the whimsical world of judging.
To give you an example - I won last year's Art of Nature SA competition (landscape category) with the landscape I thought had the least chance of winning.
In the competitions here on AP, some of the images I've felt were my better ones have not fared well while others did unexpectedly well.

The other thing I hate doing is pandering to the competition's winning history, but, by doing so , you do adapt to be able to produce that style.
Better photography's competition demanded vignetted shots with muted colours so we entered a few like that and did well with those only.
I personally really hate heavy vignetting and I love my colour!
Some seem to cater for shots that seem to be intentionally chosen for their technical imperfection but tell a story ....etc etc

I don't think you stand much to lose from entering (unless it's a big entry fee) and if you can learn something from the images that come out above yours, then it's all worthwhile.
(If however, you're thinking to yourself '###!' when looking at the ones above yours , maybe then, skip to another comp where you can understand the ideals of its judges ! likewise if it angers you for whatever reason)

[Kym]

FYI Since the start of the new comp system (November 2009) there are only 97 unique winners of competitions. Nearly frac12 have won one comp.
This includes NTP and other special competitions.

Xenedis, you have one two. That puts you ahead of the game. :D

[Xenedis]

There's always differences of opion in what someone see's in a shot, don't be boyed by some negitive reviews, you've produced some wonderful images, and a couple for me I didn't really enjoy, but thats the thing mate, personaly taste and people's perspective.

Thanks Roosta. I totally agree with you that not all of a given photographer's images will appeal, even to fans of that photographer's work.

Just thinking about one photographer I know, whose work I love, and whose standard of images is very high... some of his images just don't excite me, or the concept or style has no impact on me. I consider that normal, and certainly don't expect people who tend to like my work to like all of it.


Some judges can't leave that behind, it is comman in most forms of competition where we can't remove the human factor.

I think the playing field is a bit more level when the judge doesn't know who shot the image. When judging images myself, I don't care who shot them, or what equipment or post-processing techniques were used; all that matters is the image in front of me. That certainly reduces bias. I personally would rather judge an image, and in turn have my own images judged, purely on the merits of what's in front of me, not the reputation of the person who shot the image. Of course, some people's work is easily recognisable.


Give it a go, I hope you do well, If you don't give it a go, well, your self doubt is working to well, or you've set yourself a very low rate to fail. You'll never know if you don't.

I certainly want to give it a go. it's a new challenge, and a new experience, stepping beyond merely publishing my images on Flickr and here.

I do hold myself and my work to a high standard, and that could possibly work against me. I know I have some good images. What's at question here is my own self-assessment, and whether I am aiming just too high with the levels of competition I'm considering entering.


Have a crack.

I think I shall.


I am in exactly the same position. You are fortunate indeed to have found someone to mentor you, it is really helpful.

Yes, and I should remember that. The photographer who encouraged me to enter the APPAs is happy to look at the work I'll select and see if it's viable.


One factor to remember is that ours is a very subjective art - how the judge(s) feel, if the subject has any personal resonance with them

Very true.

This reminds me of the time someone bought a large canvass print of one of my images.

He mailed me and told me he bought it to hang on his office wall. The image was of one of Sydney's tidal pools. It had nice colour and composition, and all the technical stuff was just right. To some, it'd be "nice image, well composed, nice colour (et al.)", but to this guy, it was a reminder of where he grew up, so it had that personal impact and brought back memories -- the stuff no photographer can predict will happen.

That's the power of an image; it can be as powerful as music in its ability to take people back to times and places -- good and bad -- that had a profound effect.


You have some very fine images in there, and you have to bite the bullet sometime.

Thanks for the encouragement. I am certainly leaning more towards giving it a go at a more serious level than not.


I have seen quite a bit of your work and believe you have some competition winning quality shots.
Give it a go and you will never die wondering.

Thanks mate; I'm not fishing for compliments, but I'll sure take 'em. :-)

[ricktas]

In the end, if you need to win a competition to justify to yourself that you are a good photographer, you are looking in the wrong place. Competitions are just that, and with all the quirkiness and fickleness of the judges comes bias. You are a good photographer Xenedis, as are many other members of AP, and APPA, but there are also a lot of even better photographers that will never be members of AP or any other site or organisation, who also know they can produce great photographs.

Using a competition win as a measure of your success is the wrong way to go, in my opinion.

[Xenedis]

(I'm trying to stagger the replies so that I can address everyone's helpful comments, but without resulting in a massive post.)



how do they select the judges?

There are courses one can take to become a judge. I'm not all that knowledgeable about the process, but certainly there are experienced photographers, like David Oliver, judging at the APPAs.



Personally, I keep putting my best pics in for the POTW and POTM etc

That's what I've been doing since I decided to re-join the AP comps a while ago.


been close, in the top 5 a couple of times. Gets a little disgruntleing at times missing out but I keep having a go. I`d just keep at it X and enjoy just being able to take good photos anyway should keep you happy.

That's pretty much what I decided to do. :-)


I may not be qualified to comment as I am still early in my photography path and have not won any comps as yet but I am sure I am qualified to tell a worthy shot and a not so worthy photo. I have seen quite a number of your photo's and I do beleive you are short selling yourself. I have seen some cracka's you have taken and should definately be entered - abd of course, no ever shot is a cracka but you already know that ;-). I see it this way, first your photo's need to be good enough to enter of which yours definately are and secondly, educating yourself to the style of photo the competition is actually looking for which you may or may not have but you will gain knowledge from entering such comps - definately go for it. OH! and proudly brag on AP when you win the big one :-).

Thanks Mike.

Your words are both encouraging and wise. Yes, one does learn a lot from having images judged, and hearing first-hand from a judge what one got right, and what one got wrong.


You know what, and with respect, each competition can have only one winner. Not entering cause you can't/haven't won in the past is something kids do. "I'm not playing any more cause you always win, I am taking my bat and ball and I'm going home".

Certainly.

However, after a while, not making the grade, and not knowing the 'rules' of the game, can be very discouraging. There's only so much rejection a person can take before deciding that the game really isn't worth playing, or far worse, becoming self-doubtful.


Just the experience of entering, listening to, or reading the judges comments about your entry, and that of others, including the winners, is the only way to go.

Absolutely. Hearing insightful commentary from a judge, as opposed to a numeric score or a yes/no, is enormously helpful.


After all, you might just get an insight into specific judges and be able to enter something that you know they will like more, when they are judging next. It is all part of playing the game, in this artistic endeavour we pursue, called photography.

The whole concept of playing a game to win favour with judges just doesn't appeal to me. I see my photography as something to pursue on my own terms and to my own satisfaction rather than something that should appeal to someone else's desires.

Of course, on the other hand, entering an image into a competition when it is known that the judge has a bias against that kind of image would be plainly silly.

I am at conflict over the fact that photography is not something I'm doing to be competitive, yet by the very nature of entering competitions, one needs to be competitive, and engage in a bit of game playing to appeal to the judge (where the judge and that judge's biases are known).

For me, my biggest competitor is in fact myself. I want to shoot better images than I've shot before, and shoot them with more frequency.

[Xenedis]

Sorry -- another monstrous post.


I have entered a comp years ago with a pic and did not even get a look in by the judges, however the comments from people who mattered (professional photographers) about the shot said it should have done better

Indeed. Sometimes we see work getting accolades when it's really quite ordinary, and stunning work getting overlooked.

On the other hand, in some cases, as Rick said, there can only be one winner. Having to choose between a handful of stunning images is a horrible thing to have to do, and it even happens here on AP.



Your mentor has said to you that they think your shots are ready to be entered so why not.

Very true. Some of my images stand a bloody good chance. I guess it's a matter of choosing wisely.


Photography is an art, not a science.

It's both, but the scientific part of it is much more predictable and controllable. :-)


You can't hope to understand or pre-determine all the factors that go into individual judges' decisions. You've just got to give it a go.

Personally, I think you take some really stunning images, so I don't think you'd be wasting your time by entering serious competitions.

Thanks Jules. I am keen to give it a go. I guess I have nothing to lose, really.

Someone has to win. Why not me?


You always hear about the success stories but never how many times one failed to get there!

That's because I haven't told my failure stories. ;-)


Competitions are judged subjectively.

Very much so, as much as people aim to be objective.


I'm constantly surprised at the camera club, images that we members think are great get shredded by the guest judge and vice versa.

Yeah, I've seen some strange judging in the camera club arena, too. Of course, there are limits as to how many awards can be given, so good images may miss by a hairline.



Even here on AP we mods are sometimes surprised as to what polls well. Back when we had a judging panel here on AP their pick was often different from the popular pick.


Judging images in that type of environment surely isn't easy. I bet there were differences of opinions between judges.



So IMHO don't take it too seriously.

Taking it too seriously may have been a big part of my problem.


My advice to you is to just go ahead and do it!

I was hoping you'd turn up in this thread. You have outstanding images, monopolise the cover of Australian Photography magazine, and by my reckoning, probably have experience with serious competitions.


You have a great deal of stunning images and people here have reaffirmed that many a time.

Thanks D. I'm not used to hearing the word 'stunning' with reference to my images when it is uttered by someone else whose images can aptly be described in the same manner.



Whether a photograph does well in a competition or not really boils down to the whimsical world of judging.

Aye, that's the challenge.

My work is of a certain, definable standard. The rules of the competition are defined.

The calibre of judging, and human element that gets in the way, isn't. That's the hardest part.


To give you an example - I won last year's Art of Nature SA competition (landscape category) with the landscape I thought had the least chance of winning. In the competitions here on AP, some of the images I've felt were my better ones have not fared well while others did unexpectedly well.

I've seen and experienced that before, too. I publish my Greatest Image Ever, and people ignore it. I publish something that's okay, but not stunning or the image by which I'd wish to be remembered, and they're all over it, singing its praises. It's head-shaking.



The other thing I hate doing is pandering to the competition's winning history, but, by doing so , you do adapt to be able to produce that style.

Changing my style or subject matter to appeal to someone else's whims isn't something I see myself doing. My photographic evolution needs to be on my terms, and happen during its natural course.

I noticed in my camera club last year that the flavour of the month was to texturise the hell out of images, and there was also a movement towards more montage-based work.

Sure, quite a few of those shots got the awards, but it's just not me. Those approaches just aren't approaches that suit what I do or what I want, and doing it because everyone else is doing it, or because the judges seem to favour it, isn't a direction I want to take. I found my style, I found my subject matter interest, and I'm bloody fussy about both. Doing something unnatural to me to appeal to someone else is just so foreign to me. If I had naturally grown warm towards, say, textures or whatever else, and it happened to be in vogue, then sure; but I'm not one to do something because it's fashionable. I'm more likely to boycott it if it's fashionable.



Better photography's competition demanded vignetted shots with muted colours

How very Eastway-ish. While Peter is known for less-than-subtle vignetting, he does have some intensely saturated images too.


so we entered a few like that and did well with those only.

I'm probably less willing to make major alterations to my style and subject matter to appeal to someone else's view of How It Should Be.


I personally really hate heavy vignetting and I love my colour!

I'm in the same boat. I like colour, but not too intense, and vignetting should be subtle rather than scream out "Look at me, I am a vignette!".



I don't think you stand much to lose from entering (unless it's a big entry fee) and if you can learn something from the images that come out above yours, then it's all worthwhile. (If however, you're thinking to yourself '###!' when looking at the ones above yours , maybe then, skip to another comp where you can understand the ideals of its judges ! likewise if it angers you for whatever reason)

Good advice, D. Thanks.


FYI Since the start of the new comp system (November 2009) there are only 97 unique winners of competitions. Nearly frac12 have won one comp. This includes NTP and other special competitions.

Xenedis, you have one two. That puts you ahead of the game. :D

Interesting factoids. :-)

Also interesting (to me at least) is the fact that I only joined AP at the time the comp system changed.

I might win another comp one day. ;-)


In the end, if you need to win a competition to justify to yourself that you are a good photographer, you are looking in the wrong place. Competitions are just that, and with all the quirkiness and fickleness of the judges comes bias. You are a good photographer Xenedis, as are many other members of AP, and APPA, but there are also a lot of even better photographers that will never be members of AP or any other site or organisation, who also know they can produce great photographs.

Using a competition win as a measure of your success is the wrong way to go, in my opinion.

I tend to agree.

I know my own skill level. I know my limitations. I believe it's important to know my limitations and address those so that I can improve upon my previous work. Maybe entering competitions will give me insight and learnings that I'd otherwise not have.

I know I can produce great images. Several of them adorn the walls here and elsewhere. I like looking at my own work -- the good stuff, that is. Looking back at the older stuff, I sometimes cringe. I try to avoid looking at some of it, but I was in a certain headspace at certain times, and it's a testament to the journey I was taking at that time.

I'd like to step up a notch, and in as much as self-belief is a good thing, sometimes it's good to know that my own high opinion of my work isn't exclusive, and is shared by people in a position to know great images from good images.

[jasevk]

The good thing about the APPA's is that you dint need to be 'the winner' to reap benefit from entering.

Your prints are scored against a standard structure... Even If your images don't score high enough to be awarded silver or gold, with or without distinction... You can be encouraged by falling just short of this and having your work judged as of professional practice.

[Jules]

[snip]...Changing my style or subject matter to appeal to someone else's whims isn't something I see myself doing. My photographic evolution needs to be on my terms, and happen during its natural course.

...Those approaches just aren't approaches that suit what I do or what I want, and doing it because everyone else is doing it, or because the judges seem to favour it, isn't a direction I want to take. I found my style, I found my subject matter interest, and I'm bloody fussy about both. Doing something unnatural to me to appeal to someone else is just so foreign to me...

...I'm probably less willing to make major alterations to my style and subject matter to appeal to someone else's view of How It Should Be...[snip]

I'm trimming all your statements down to just these three, because they seem the most important to me.

You already know the answer to your question Xenedis. Enter as many competitions as you like, serious or otherwise. Learn from them what you can. But above all else, stay true to yourself and your vision. Because at the end of the day, I'll bet that matters more to you than any awards.

[ving]

In the end, if you need to win a competition to justify to yourself that you are a good photographer, you are looking in the wrong place. Competitions are just that, and with all the quirkiness and fickleness of the judges comes bias. You are a good photographer Xenedis, as are many other members of AP, and APPA, but there are also a lot of even better photographers that will never be members of AP or any other site or organisation, who also know they can produce great photographs.

Using a competition win as a measure of your success is the wrong way to go, in my opinion.a truer statement has never been said! :th3:

[junqbox]

My personal opinon is that you produce stunningly technically and emotionaly superb images which would have both a commercial and competitve value. But the subject matter, something I know you have a preference for (as do others), is not something that grabs me. Therein lies the subjective/objective dilemma.

If I were you, I would go for it. What have you got to lose?

[Art Vandelay]

Last year I abandoned all forms of competition out of sheer frustration at my inability to do well. I also stopped shooting, and it took a while for me to get back into it again.



I'll go against the grain & suggest that you give them a miss. If you're emotionally fragile and don't get the wins or kudos you expect you'll probably give it away again, then you'll lose the personal enjoyment out of photography....

[Dylan & Marianne]

Agree with Art's statement too ;)
I avoided going in competitions alot for that reason but I seem to have donned a slightly thicker skin with age !

[William]

Think It's all been said John, Just go for it , One of your images that really sticks in my head is the one of "Narrabeen Gorge" The one you did the Image blending on, Your recent Architectural ones are also excellent , Winning comps is very fickle, I've won a few over the last few years, The funny thing is on this site I mostly post in the Landscape/Seascape forum , I must admit I get really positive feedback on that forum on my images , When I post them in the comps they dont do so well :confused013 , Maybe the Landscapers dont Vote , Who knows :) Most of my 6 or so wins are from other genre , I must hold the record for coming second the most since I joined :( I did feel down towards the latter half of last year as well , I said some things that I now regret (Luckily Rick deleted them) :D , I think I sort of know where your coming from, My tip is , Enter the ones with the most Thumb Nail visual impact , One Image in particular I've entered twice in comps here, Never got to the finals , Yet has been published in two Aussie Magazines and the news Papers as well , OK it was Photo Journalism Image, Maybe that does'nt work in comps , Thank goodness I've learnt to deal with that now , Maybe It's just winning a comp or two gives you that marker as to how your going Photographically , All my family say I take a good shot tho :rolleyes:, Just my little rant on your thread - Cheers Bill , Good luck in the comps you will enter :th3:

[ving]

i personally steer clear of comps cause i just aint got the skillz.

[William]

i personally steer clear of comps cause i just aint got the skillz.

It's the only way I can get new Camera equipment and Computor Gear :lol:

[kazdez]

In camera clubs, all the judges say that their opinions are subjective. In Qld, the judges come from a pool of "accredited judges" who have been mentored by other "accredited judges", who are not necessarily pro photographers, they are camera enthusiasts who have been shooting for years, and did their qualifications to become a judge. Many here have mentioned that some judges, seem to sway to the particular genre that they are interested in.
As a camera club participant, I always shoot and compete on images that I like. My photography is for me and I go to the meetings, with the attitude that they won't like it, but I do, and if it get panned or just an acceptance, no worries. But if one of the "accredited judges" gives it an award, that's nice.

We recently had a speaker at our club, who is the editor of an internationally acclaimed magazine, who said that he applies the "3 second" rule, when accepting images for the magazine. We each will look at an image, and usually with in 3 seconds we either like it or hate it. And its all subjective.

Try competing in some of the international salons. They use the 3 second rule for their images, and many who compete, find that they do so much better in that type of competition.

If ever you get the opportunity to see the AIPP or other associations, who stream their judging on the net, it is worthwhile sitting and listening, and observing. You will be able to pick what the judges will say in a short time of watching and listening. But they do not do the 3 minute rule, judging.

I choose not to compete, in most competitions, not because I don't win anything, but my photography is for me, I like it, and thats' what matters

I share my images in various locations, such as Facebook, Redbubble and Flickr, and the responses that I get there are more genuine than any judge.

Keep shooting, keep competing, and love your images.

Karen

[Geoff79]

Haha, maybe it's not so bad being crap after all, and avoiding such worries. :D

I definitely can't picture myself having these kind of worries anytime soon, but Xenedis, very early on in my time on this forum I pencilled you in as one of my personal faves, based on the images I'd seen. And looking at that link only confirms that. I personally love most of those shots. But I also totally appreciate that me liking them is no indication at all of how you will do in competitions.

Because photography is only a hobby for me, the only "competition" experience I have had is on this forum. Getting no votes is never pleasing, especially when you actually rate your own image (which admittedly isn't always the case compared to what others offer), but I just enjoy putting them out there and seeing what happens anyway. I was stoked the other day to get 15 votes for one of my shots. Sure, I was miles off the pace and still under halfway, but it was still a good result for me.

Anyway, rambling aside. If I took photos as good as yours, I would certainly have a go. The fact that you and Dtoh have both had average experiences in comps only highlights to me how tough I'm sure they would be (as you both put up some amazing shots), but you can only have a shot and just see how you go.

Even though this site is my only competition experience, I'm sure it's exactly the same in the real world, just amplified. I'll admit there's been plenty of competitions here where I completely disagree with the eventual winning shot, or rankings etc. But I also acknowledge that everyone here is probably looking for something different from a photo, and my personal faves aren't always the personal faves of the masses. :)

[jeffde]

I don't enter many competitions anymore for several reasons - time being the main one...

I have found that images that sell - don't neccessarily win comps, and images that win comps don't nexccessarily sell either.
We at our local camera club have some truly great photographers =, who win comp after comp - but they never sell an image (nor is that their intention)
I sell lots of images (but seldom win anything....)
If i sell an image (usually perople) and that person loves it - whether it wins a comp or not doesn't really faze me - Competion entries don't rely on "an emotional attachment' therefore
the truly great competions winners take great photos.

You have lots of great photos, so to me what's your goal in entering competitions - that's what should decide if you enter or not.

[ricktas]

Take this weeks POTW, there are 55 entries being voted on. There will be one winner, so 54 who are not winners. Yet of those 54, every single entry is worthy, it displays its genre and content in a great way, and if I had to critique them all for judging and make a comment on each entry, it would be a huge challenge, and I am 100% positive, I could not pick the one that will eventually win. Winning competitions is a mix of luck, good skills, luck, good subject, luck, finding a judge who likes your style, oh and did I mention luck.:D

[Xenedis]

All,

Thanks for the responses and interesting discussion.

It's been a long, intense day and I don't have much time or energy right now to respond properly. I'll try to do so during the week.

[cam bicknell]

In my limited time on this forum I had also picked you out as someone whose work I find particularly interesting. Some of your pictures I really like, others I don't connect to the subject matter but it's always worth having a look at what you've done both out of interest and to try and learn something to help me improve.
Some people are more competitive than others and it sounds like you have a desire to do this. The reasons for and against have been well covered by you and other respondents but to me it sounds like deep down you want to give it a go and therefore should.

[peterb666]

I use to argue with the X-man in the photographic forums of Whirlpool in years gone by. It was the X-man's seascapes that got me back into photography and I had the pleasure of meeting the icon on my first AP meet. I witnessed the death of the X-man's first Canon 5D and I admire how that didn't hold him back. The camera was replaced with a newer version within a couple of hours.

I have seen the X-man take on HDR and portraits. What can I say but there would be few photos that the fellow cannot do well. Self-portraits would be about the only thing that I can think of. ;)

You will do well in serious comps (unless they are rigged or you let the 'politics' gets you).

All the best.

:th3:

[CAP]

Fence sitter????????? not quite
If you are emotionally up for it, then light those afterburners and go for it.
If worried about becoming a train wreck by not succeeding, then steer away from them.
all pretty simple in my mind..... but then again, I am simple.

[Lance B]

Looking at your favourites gallery, I certainly think there are many capable winners in that lot and as other's have suggested, you won't know unless you enter. If you don't enter, you definitely won't win!

[Bennymiata]

My father is or was a photographic judge and also has FAPS and FLAPS after his name and he earned them by entering and winning lots of comps both here and overseas.
He's a very good photographer with great skills, but mainly in the old, film world.
My father and I used to spend many nights in his darkroom developing photos and priniting both in colour and B&W.
He often argued with the other judges, as he reckoned that many of them didn't really have the technical expertise to tell a well crafted photo from a dud, so I guess you will always get good judges and not-so-good judges. It's just a matter of luck, and he reckons that most judges were only there to make themselves look like a big man (or woman) as their own photography skills were lacking.
He was invited to judge competitions almost every night of the week at various clubs, but gave it up after a couple of years as he said it was a thankless task, which paid nothing, yet it was on his head to make the right decision.

In his words, he reckons that a lot of club comps are won by committee members, as the judges soon learn the various styles of the club members and they tend to be a bit biased.

Personally, while I did enter one photo in a comp here, competitions are not for me, as I do my photography for work, and my own pleasure, and if people don't like what I do, it really doesn't worry me as I know that photography, like art, is a very subjective thing and no 2 people can share exactly the same opinion on any one shot.

If you want to compete, by all means go ahead and enjoy yourself, but don't get too upset if you don't win all the time, or even if you never win.
Competion is fun when you do it for your own reasons. Competing to get prizes isn't worth the hassle.
As I said previously, my father won a lot of competitions, and he has suitcases full of medals and awards, and a big shelf with all his big cups and trophies on it, but they are all just worthless, so if you expect to make money out of being winning comps, forget about it as the prizes aren't worth much.
It actually surprises me that the camera clubs don't hassle the camera importers for good prizes to offer, as I used to do in a car club I was the president of.
We use to hassle the brand's head office and other sponsors for prizes and give-aways all the time, and we got some great items to sell or give away, yet in camera clubs, you might get a $5 cup if you win a big comp.

Competing in photography can only be done because you enjoy it.
If you don't enjoy being in a comp, don't bother entering as it will only make you angry.

[Xenedis]

above all else, stay true to yourself and your vision. Because at the end of the day, I'll bet that matters more to you than any awards.

You've got it in one.

I'm not driven by awards or prizes of monetary value. Of course, these are nice, but shooting what I want, on my own terms, is much nicer.

Still, I'd like to again test the waters in competition land and see if I can hold my own against the pool of stunning images out there.


My personal opinon is that you produce stunningly technically and emotionaly superb images which would have both a commercial and competitve value.

That's quite a big compliment, so thanks!

I cannot see the emotional impact my images might have, as a given image may affect someone profoundly, but will have no impact on the next guy. I've never considered my images to be strong as far as emotional impact; aesthetics and technical precision, sure, but emotion, not so much.



But the subject matter, something I know you have a preference for (as do others), is not something that grabs me. Therein lies the subjective/objective dilemma.

Indeed. Of course, if the competition is genre-specific, it's much easier in that respect.


I'll go against the grain & suggest that you give them a miss. If you're emotionally fragile and don't get the wins or kudos you expect you'll probably give it away again, then you'll lose the personal enjoyment out of photography....

Heh. I'm not that emotionally fragile, nor driven by some need to win. It'd take a lot more than that for me to 'down tools'.

My frustration last year was with more than the competition game.


Agree with Art's statement too ;)
I avoided going in competitions alot for that reason

I think most people don't like to hear that they're not good enough; it's human nature. I guess what we do in response to negative feedback is more important than whether the feedback is positive, negative or neutral.

Maybe you should enter some comps, too.


Think It's all been said John, Just go for it

I think I will.

I feel like stepping up and going into some serious comps, as well as some not-so-serious comps. It could be beneficial, even if I don't collect the prize.


One of your images that really sticks in my head is the one of "Narrabeen Gorge" The one you did the Image blending on

I use blending on many images. :-)

I'm glad you like that one, though; it is one of my favourite images, and the elements that day were perfect for that shot. Rare, in my experience.



Your recent Architectural ones are also excellent

Thanks Bill. While I'm enjoying that style at the moment, there's probably very little from that collection I'd submit in a serious comp. It just doesn't strike me as comp material, although one never knows.



Winning comps is very fickle, I've won a few over the last few years, The funny thing is on this site I mostly post in the Landscape/Seascape forum , I must admit I get really positive feedback on that forum on my images , When I post them in the comps they dont do so well

Yes, it can sure be confusing when the competition results don't align with general feedback.

It's even more astounding when a judge provides very positive comments about an image, but doesn't give it an award. I've experienced that.

You have some strong images in your collection, but like me you might be caught up in a genre that's been done a lot.

It seems that on AP landscape, seascape and macro images tend to be favoured by the voting community. Portraits seem to bomb.

[geoffsta]

I am asked a fair bit from people to enter local comps, but I don't. I do enter the comps on here, only because I can see the results of the votes.
By looking at the number of members that vote on my images, I can gauge how well I'm doing with my photography. Plus the people who are voting on my images, are people I respect and admire.
With club or other comps there is only a first, second and third place. They do not tell you why you didn't win, or whether your image is average, poor or reasonable. And it can be upsetting if you think that the image you entered is a real winner, and it doesn't even get a mention.

My 2 cents worth.

Geoff.

[Fantasyphoto]

Oh Xen, what have you started? I guess I now know the topic of conversation over dinner next Saturday night? :lol:

Your choice of restaurant, your choice of topic so I guess your buying the wine :th3:

[fillum]

I think the important thing is to pick the right comps, those that fit with where you see your photography heading. My feeling is that if you look at the award winners and think "wow, I wish I had produced that" or "I'd really like to try something like that", etc, it's probably the right comp for you. But if the general 'flavour' leaves you cold it might be better to enter your work elsewhere.


Cheers.

[dbax]

Ok questions you need to answer,
If you enter and don't win ( or get a place or an honourable mention) will you be crest fallen and give up ?
If you enter and win will you need to get a bigger hat and get every door in the house widened ?
If the answer to these is no, then have a go, nothing to loose.
If the answer to these is yes then you need to think long and hard about why you are entering.
recognition is good but its not the be all and end all.
Do I think your good enough? I'd be very happy to hang some of your images on my walls !
I'd be very happy to take images of equal quality!
Have a go but don't dwell one the results, it is after all subjective!

[Xenedis]

very early on in my time on this forum I pencilled you in as one of my personal faves, based on the images I'd seen. And looking at that link only confirms that. I personally love most of those shots

Thanks Geoff; that's also a big compliment.


But I also totally appreciate that me liking them is no indication at all of how you will do in competitions.

You're very right about that.



Because photography is only a hobby for me, the only "competition" experience I have had is on this forum. Getting no votes is never pleasing, especially when you actually rate your own image (which admittedly isn't always the case compared to what others offer), but I just enjoy putting them out there and seeing what happens anyway. I was stoked the other day to get 15 votes for one of my shots. Sure, I was miles off the pace and still under halfway, but it was still a good result for me.

That's always pleasing. Here the environment is somewhat relaxed, and if you can see the points, you'll have at least some idea of how you fared within the entries and the context of the potentially wide variety of votes.


Anyway, rambling aside. If I took photos as good as yours, I would certainly have a go. The fact that you and Dtoh have both had average experiences in comps only highlights to me how tough I'm sure they would be (as you both put up some amazing shots), but you can only have a shot and just see how you go.

Thanks again for your encouragement. After having stepped back from comps for a while, perhaps now is a time to give it another shot.

I was surprised to see that Dylan hasn't done all that well in comps. I expected him to have had a lot of experience and a lot of wins.

Still, it goes to show that a photographer's success is not measured by competition results, as there's so much variability in the competition arena, and there's so much more to photography in general.


In my limited time on this forum I had also picked you out as someone whose work I find particularly interesting. Some of your pictures I really like, others I don't connect to the subject matter but it's always worth having a look at what you've done both out of interest and to try and learn something to help me improve. Some people are more competitive than others and it sounds like you have a desire to do this. The reasons for and against have been well covered by you and other respondents but to me it sounds like deep down you want to give it a go and therefore should.

Thanks Cam.

While I'm not hugely competitive with photography, you are right in that I do want to give it a go and see if I can get somewhere in that arena.


I use to argue with the X-man in the photographic forums of Whirlpool in years gone by. It was the X-man's seascapes that got me back into photography and I had the pleasure of meeting the icon on my first AP meet. I witnessed the death of the X-man's first Canon 5D and I admire how that didn't hold him back. The camera was replaced with a newer version within a couple of hours.

I have seen the X-man take on HDR and portraits. What can I say but there would be few photos that the fellow cannot do well. Self-portraits would be about the only thing that I can think of. ;)

You will do well in serious comps (unless they are rigged or you let the 'politics' gets you).

All the best.


If I didn't know you better I'd think you were trying to butter me up to pay for brunch on Sunday. :-)

What can I say but "wow"? I didn't realise my seascaping adventures inspired you to get into seascaping. And thankfully my misadventures haven't dissuaded you from pursuing it. It is rewarding to know that something I've done has been a source of inspiration for someone else. I sure don't consider myself inspirational.

However, apparently so powerful is my influence that you also lost a piece of equipment to the ocean. I would dare you to throw that Nikon into the water, but there are laws against pollution...

Thanks also for your encouragement. I'm perhaps in a better place now than I was last year, so entering some comps could be rewarding. I happened across one very recently, which I'm intending to enter. I've got something quite different, which I think could do well in that comp.

Re self-portraits, yes… I just cannot see myself going down that path. It's for the best. :-)


Oh Xen, what have you started? I guess I now know the topic of conversation over dinner next Saturday night?

Not necessarily, but I'm sure you'll voice your opinion. :-)



Your choice of restaurant, your choice of topic so I guess your buying the wine :th3:

With your credit card. 1990 Grange should go well with the meal.


I think the important thing is to pick the right comps, those that fit with where you see your photography heading. My feeling is that if you look at the award winners and think "wow, I wish I had produced that" or "I'd really like to try something like that", etc, it's probably the right comp for you. But if the general 'flavour' leaves you cold it might be better to enter your work elsewhere.

I see plenty of images that cause a "wow, I wish I'd shot that" reaction. It's the sort of thing that inspires me.

As I've indicated throughout this thread (and I again thank those who've encouraged me to give it a try), I am keen to give it another crack, with perhaps a better sense of direction and more positive view of the experience.

Photography needs to be a constant learning process. I don't want to 'peak' and then travel along a flat trajectory. If I enter comps that have an abundance of seriously good images, get to see what does well and what doesn't, and even perhaps gain feedback from judges, it could result in me taking my own image making to a higher level, and that cannot be a bad thing.

Sure, there will be disappointment, but it's nothing I haven't experienced, and I'm always in search for a 'wow-factor' image in spite of whatever happens with competitions.

[peterb666]

If I didn't know you better I'd think you were trying to butter me up to pay for brunch on Sunday. :-)

That's sounds like a good idea. Thanks.



What can I say but "wow"? I didn't realise my seascaping adventures inspired you to get into seascaping. And thankfully my misadventures haven't dissuaded you from pursuing it. It is rewarding to know that something I've done has been a source of inspiration for someone else. I sure don't consider myself inspirational.

I don't consider myself inspirational either but have received comments along that line for my rather inferior seascapes. Heck, I even had Christian fundamentalists steal my images and claim it to be the work of 'god'. How little do they know but I am the exact opposite - after all I seem to have induced them into stealing - my wicked work has been done.


However, apparently so powerful is my influence that you also lost a piece of equipment to the ocean. I would dare you to throw that Nikon into the water, but there are laws against pollution...

Hmm, my loss was far more modest, a $20 remote control sender vs a $3200 camera body. Drowning Canons is almost as much fun as bobbing for Apples. Let's keep religion out of this.


Thanks also for your encouragement. I'm perhaps in a better place now than I was last year, so entering some comps could be rewarding. I happened across one very recently, which I'm intending to enter. I've got something quite different, which I think could do well in that comp.

Go for it. Hint, don't refer to the judges as morons until after the event.


Re self-portraits, yes… I just cannot see myself going down that path. It's for the best. :-)

We seem to agree with each other far too often these days.

:th3:

[Dwarak]

John,

I have never ever won any competitions but having said that I have not tied hard enough. I am entering APPA as a student and I think it will be a good start for me if I get a bronze or a silver. I guess we will have to just try..

[jasevk]

John,

I have never ever won any competitions but having said that I have not tied hard enough. I am entering APPA as a student and I think it will be a good start for me if I get a bronze or a silver. I guess we will have to just try..

Bronze?? You'll have to aim for silver, cos There's no bronze!!

[Dwarak]

Bronze?? You'll have to aim for silver, cos There's no bronze!!

Yes that's right I meant silver I think the score is 75 for that one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jasevk]

Yes that's right I meant silver I think the score is 75 for that one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

80-84 = silver
85-89 = silver with distinction
90-94 = gold
95+ = gold with distinction


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[FallingHorse]

Hi Xenedis - I don't know if this is helpful to your topic or not but I read (in a book about entering photography competitions) that if you believe strongly in an image, you should enter it - even if it doesn't do well i one comp it may do well in another. I guess this comes down to certain judges preferences for one type of image or another.

I am a bit like you - I stopped entering because I felt that my images weren't doing any good so why waste the effort of getting them printed, postage & entrance fees when I am competing in the open field against people that are far more experience than I am.... but

Recently I thought I would have another crack at it. I am usually happy to see that my images score reasonably well even if they don't get accepted. Well today I got news of my first acceptance and a couple others were only 1 and 2 points off the acceptance level. For me, I feel this is a great achievement because I am scoring better than I was 12 months ago when my images were scoring well under acceptance level. OK so I didn't 'win' anything other than a moral boost but on a personal level I can see a huge improvement. Only 99 points to go until I can apply for my Honours lol. At this rate I will be an old but happy woman :)

[Xenedis]

Hey Jodie.

Thanks for your input.

It looks like this dormant old thread became active again recently.

Since I posted it, I've well and truly said goodbye to any form of competition, and I never proceeded beyond the contemplation I posted at the time.

All the best in your endeavours in the competition scene.

[FallingHorse]

Lol - I didn't realise how old it was when I commented