I broke my own rule - apparently [Archive] - AusPhotography:: Australia's Premier Photography Forum::

kazdez

19-06-2011, 12:20pm

We went to a festival last night to take some dusk and evening candids. Was there about 1.5 hours, just finishing eating a snack and I took my camera out and was snapping some of the scenes around me. Well, this guy, comes up and asks if I was taking photos of his children. Taking scenes and taking children is different to me. My rule is no individual children. So I said I did not think so, he asked me to show him the last two shots I had taken, and there in a group scene shot, his daughter was there with a whole group of other people enjoying the festival. I said I apologize, and deleted the image. So you would think every thing ok, but no, the wife went chasing about for security, who came and said he had a complaint. I explained that I had inadvertently, shot a scene that had his daughter in, that I had apologize, and that I deleted it. Security said fine all ok, but the people concerned did not let it go. One of the men chased after the security guy to get us kicked out of the festival, but we had not done anything wrong, and security said, its over. So we continued to enjoy the festival, but this group of people. stood glaring at us, to try and make us uncomfortable. I know the law here in Queensland, regarding shooting in public places, and children. So I was not going to be chased away by anyone, if security saw nothing wrong.
We left about 20 mins later, and low and behold one of the men followed us for about 2 blocks, to see where we were going. Now I am not a confrontational person, but I should have turned around and asked what he was doing, but let it go. He had the problem not me. So my vent:

In a public place,
Shooting candid scenes
Took a scene shot that had his daughter in
Apologized
Deleted
**** should be all over,
but
wife called security to try and have us ejected.
Security said we were ok
Then followed us to intimidate

Left a bad taste in my mouth......

Sorry for the long vent

Angry that some people just have to try and take it further.

Kazdez

ameerat42

19-06-2011, 12:25pm

"Some people are born great. Some become great. And some have greatness thrust upon them." Anon.

Sounds like they were just grating.

I can't see a thing you did wrong from all this.

old dog

19-06-2011, 12:42pm

You did the right thing.......and continue to be non confrontational as road rage can occur on foot too and this other person who followed you could have attacked you if provoked. Don`t let this change you....easily said I`ll admit. Continue being innocent I say.

Lance B

19-06-2011, 1:05pm

Unfortunately, people have become waaay too precious in this day and age. Everyone is a victim these days and this scenario was no exception, these people wanted to feel as they were victims and were going to great lengths to prove it. It's quite unbelievable, really.

You probably did do the right thing and I do not know what I would have done in those circumstances, but a person following you for 2 blocks is just as bad as what he was accusing you of, ie he was stalking. In that particular point in the situation, I may have reacted quite strongly and possibly confronted the idiot and pointed out how ridiculous he was behaving. I definitely would have taken his photo and warned him that it may be used in evidence of him harassing you.

I meant to add. Imagine it Justin Bieber had turned up and the kids photo was taken next to him ND published in the paper for all the world to see. Anyone could download it and see their daughter. Or imagine they didn't have a camera themselves and saw that you also took a photo, they'd be falling all over themselves for a photo from you on this momentous occasion. Really, its no different

Scotty72

19-06-2011, 2:14pm

Hi,

Frankly, I think you were way too kind. Him demanding you show him, then delete your personal photos is no different from him demanding to look through your wallet for something he may not wish you to have.

I have taken that approach a few times: I'll let you look at my private photos if you show me yours... Otherwise, get a court order.

Having said that, I take an obvious,in your face approach. Doing that gives you the appearance of 'belonging' there.

As for him following you in order to intimidate, you ought to have gone to security as that is clearly not allowable. And, you should have taken a few pics of him as evidence of him following you.

Better luck avoiding morons next time. :)

Scotty

kiwi

19-06-2011, 2:18pm

I'm really sorry that's happened to you, I personally really hate this sort of thing and I know it will put you off public photography

kazdez

19-06-2011, 2:33pm

Thanks guys, for the comments. It really has left a bad taste. Being Female, I am not one to confront, and I appreciate the comments. We talked about it when we got home, and the should of, could of and would of's made me realize that not being intimidated by him was the best way to go.

"Him demanding you show him, then delete your personal photos is no different from him demanding to look through your wallet for something he may not wish you to have."

I never thought of it that way. I have always enjoyed doing Candid Street and festival photography, but feeling at the moment, I will go back to doing sports, Wildlife and macro, till this feeling passes. Might even try landscapes, at least the scenery cannot intimidate you!

At least the security guy saw the commonsense in the situation. Could have turned out worse. Will be carrying the QLD rules in my bag in future, if I decide to do Candids.

Again thanks for your support

Scotty72

19-06-2011, 2:34pm

I'm really sorry that's happened to you, I personally really hate this sort of thing and I know it will put you off public photography

Yeah! I hope it doesn't put you off too much.

You did nothing wrong and were far more polite than I'd have been. :)

ricktas

19-06-2011, 2:35pm

Some people in our society seem to think they are important, and usually they are insignificant and by being bullies, they try to appear important to others. In reality they just looks like dicks! And if it looks like a dick, it probably, for intents and purposes, is!

ricstew

19-06-2011, 2:39pm

I am with Scotty on this one lol.......I must be way less non confrontational than most.......especially with the following stuff....would have sorted that right out with the camera lens lol
cheers
Jan

mickyj

19-06-2011, 2:41pm

I had a similar thing happen in the Adelaide Park lands. I was doing landscape photos and had not realised some the cities homeless were sleeping under the brush.
In a different section of the parks, about 15 of them caught up with me. Told me I was spying and taking their photos. They did not ask, they snatched my camera still attached to my neck and wrenched it about. They said they were going to smash it and then beat me up. No security anywhere here :(

I told them and I assured them I was taking landscape images and finally convinced them to take a look. They went through them all. Trees, rivers, waterfalls, no poeple at all. Then they said that I might have another memory card or hiding them in another way. I assured them I had not deleted them and turned out my pockets (I left my wallet in the car so I had nothing of value except my car keys and camera).
They even checked out the sequential photo numbers to see I had not quickly deleted any.

I finally convinced them I had not taken any photos and even told them, if they wish, I will leave the park, and I did.

I am not going back there, no matter how nice the park looks. It is a pity.

Scotty72

19-06-2011, 2:45pm

I Will be carrying the QLD rules in my bag in future, if I decide to do Candids.

Again thanks for your support

Good idea to have the sheet but, be aware, idiots like the guy you described are usually too caught up in their own self-importance to be persuaded by the mere rights and wrongs of the situation. It is very likely this guy has some hobby-horse and your presence is simply his excuse to flog it.

However, if security / police become involved, it may be helpful for you to make them aware you know your rights - if they try to tell you that you have none. Even then, prob best to politely thank them and tell them you will continue to take pics. If you're thrusting bits of paper in people's faces, then it's already a poor situation.

Chin Up :)

Scotty

zollo

19-06-2011, 3:06pm

Ignore them.

I was shooting a dealership for an advertisement Friday night around dusk, when a passer by started hanging around looking agitated. I am wary of that because i have expensive gear laying nearby so I asked politely if there was a problem. He then asked me for money!!? (lol) for taking his photograph. I swiftly explained that i am a commercial photographer and people usually pay me money for taking their photos not the other way around! He had no reply to that LOL

mrDooba

19-06-2011, 3:16pm

Stories like this make my blood boil:action::angry0:

I feel very sorry for you. I like Lance's response of possibly photographing the stalker and keeping it for evidence if needed.

kiwi

19-06-2011, 3:31pm

With the nutters around and their unpredicatability I would personally avoid waving your rights around (though they are good for ignorant authorities) or taking photos of them that might well just provoke an escalation. Best just to walk off I think.

andylo

19-06-2011, 4:14pm

I agree with kiwi, just walk away!

Usually I lug all my gears to everywhere. But when doing candid, I pack very light and always ready to get away from situation.

mechawombat

19-06-2011, 4:24pm

A lesson I learnt along time ago

Never argue with an idiot as they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience
Same applies to ignorant people

Sorry to hear of your bad experience Kaz

Scotty72

19-06-2011, 4:43pm

I would add, if you do intend to assert your rights, and you're not Hulk Hogan, make sure you're in a very public place: the festival sounds like it was.

Scotty72

19-06-2011, 4:49pm

Tricky

19-06-2011, 4:58pm

Kazdez, I'm incredulous at their behaviour... you did very well to turn the other cheek. They followed after you for several blocks to intimidate you, yet they feel they're somehow the victim?!

colinbm

19-06-2011, 5:23pm

All bad Kaz, even though you were right :o
I hope you & your friends are OK. It looks like it could have been worse if you were a male.
I would have been more confronting, but to my detriment. I do need to learn to back-of a bit though. I'm nearly 60 & a heart-attack over 2 yrs ago, don't need a punch-up now, even if there is still plenty of fight left in this old dog :eek:
You should have called the police on 000, that is what it is there for & headed back to the security guards.
It is OK to be right, but not dead right :th3:
Col

PS, maybe there should be some representation to the right authorities ??..to have signs at entrances to these sort of places warning people to stay away if they don't want to be photographed. This situation needs to be turned around, before someone gets hurt badly. People (togs) have already been hurt, it needs to be stopped before it escalates.
Col

kazdez

19-06-2011, 5:37pm

Col, my husband was with me and I had to try really hard to stop any confrontation. Hubby actually started to go back, but called him back.
I know some people try and be the big bully, but when you walk away from them they then become a deflated bag of wind.
It will take a few weeks to get my confidence back to do candid photography.

Karen

Scotty72

19-06-2011, 5:47pm

PS, maybe there should be some representation to the right authorities ??..to have signs at entrances to these sort of places warning people to stay away if they don't want to be photographed. This situation needs to be turned around, before someone gets hurt badly. People (togs) have already been hurt, it needs to be stopped before it escalates.
Col

Unfortunately, when authorities become involved, their instinct is to appease the ignorant ranters rather than set them straight.

If you are calm and rational, and they are ranting and raving, the authorities tend to try to manage you... If they go after the idiot, the idiot is likely to create a complaint = paper work - head-aches... just easier to ask the meek and the mild to leave.

Unfortunate but, true. :( Therefore, whilst being polite, you need to demonstrate you are willing to cause just as much (or more) 'administrivia' for them.

Scotty

geoffsta

19-06-2011, 6:32pm

You could have asked if they have a mobile phone, or compact camera. Then asked to see the images that were on them. But the DSLR is a big drawcard for idiots, and nothing we can do about that. :confused013
You done exactly as I would have done. Although when you were followed, I simply would of rang the police (in a load voice) and explained that you are being threatened by a person who had tried to touch your partners breast at the festival, forcing you to leave. And this person was now following you. You already have the evidence from the security that these people were harrassing you. Who would they believe?
If the person following heard this he would soon back off.

mickyj

19-06-2011, 8:41pm

Gee! I think I will stick to the safety of the back alleys of Mexico City, Kabul and Baghdad before I venture into Adelaide's mean streets.

That is aweful.

Scotty

Afterall, Adelaide is the Murder Capital of Australia :)
http://www.google.com.au/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=adelaide+murder+capital+of+australia&aq=1&aqi=g2g-s1g2&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ad55e7e8dbaf9293&biw=1259&bih=578

Mark L

19-06-2011, 8:44pm

I think you did the right non-confrontational thing. You can't reason with morons, especially with morons that don't want to be reasoned with.
Maybe the trick is to find something positive in the experience.

Col, my husband was with me and I had to try really hard to stop any confrontation. Hubby actually started to go back, but called him back.
Karen

At least it appears you have a husband who listens to you. My wife reckons she'd like one of them. :D

enVision

19-06-2011, 9:06pm

Terrible story. I'm sure it's something that many of us think about, but don't really know how we're going to react until we're thrust into that situation. I think you did the best thing you could have done in the circumstances. Even if you were more assertive, I'm sure you would still have had a sour taste in your mouth, and they didn't seem like the sort of people that were going to back down.

Just cause you bring the level up, doesn't mean they will back down. Often when people engage in a situation like that, they get in too deep, to the point that they can't back down, so they just keep bringing the level higher and higher until it reaches a stalemate. I see it all the time at work and it never ends well.

As bad as it is, this was only one couple. I"m sure plenty of other people there respected your gear and probably thought you were a professional, I wouldn't think too heavily about it, after all, it's their issue, not yours.

bricat

21-06-2011, 9:27am

You handled the situation which could have turned nasty. So credit to you. Everyone is different and manages to survive most situations. Having dealt with many people in this situation my approach has been the opposite. Perhaps the uniform had something to do with it. The reason for his anger was taking photo's of his children(which was not the case here) so I feel he has some justification to question anybody. Protection of children is paramount in todays age of technology.(let's not forget teachers,politicians,police and all manner of people have been caught up in illegal activities). The problem escalated when he wouln't take no for an answer after security had intervened. At this point I would have called the police and they would sort him out. You will get over it and continue to take photographs. Perhaps we need an identification card with our photo on it saying "Australia Photography" member. If we all band together and the public see this "official" type identification they will eventually leave us alone. Keep your chin up cheers Brian

lazzam

30-06-2011, 5:56pm

This reminds me of an incident down at the beach a couple of years ago concerning a self-important blow-in that started hanging around our group. It was Saturday morning when a well dressed guy with a DSLR in his hand walked to the edge of the sand, stopped, and looked around. The blow-in walked up and began harrasing him for being a pedophile. The well dressed guy looked at him and walked back from where he came from without saying a word. One of our group who saw what happened but didn't know what was said, asked the well dressed guy what happened. The guy told him and said he was a real estate agent scoping a water side property. Needless to say, the strength of the blow-in's self importance wasn't reflected in our opinion of him. A ######## to say the least.

mikew09

30-06-2011, 6:06pm

Sadly some people just want an excuse to start an argument and cause a fight. I have seen it before, people going out of their way and being totally unreasonable just looking for an excuse to escalate to a full on argument, even violence. What is even sadder is that as soon as someone takes a photo with a child in it they are considered some sort of freak. The world has gone crazy.

Nikkie

30-06-2011, 6:13pm

This is terrible I am sorry to this has happen to you. The little girl was in the middle of a group of people she was not on her own you were not hiding in a dark some place taken photos of her there should not have been any more of this that should have happen I am a mother and feel this is way over the top the parents just wanted to bully you so unfair where are things going to in this world I don't know the dad approached you with his with his concerns you deleted the photos what more does he want still not happy they made the rest of your night unpleasant. there is just no pleasing some people goodness gracious me.

tcdev

01-07-2011, 8:24am

Hmm.... seems like you ran into a right royal a**wipe there... I'd have to go with Scotty and most others on this.

I think my reaction would be greatly dictated by the attitude of the complainant. A concerned yet polite request would be greeted on my part by a polite compliance. Somewhat bullying and beligerant requests would probably result in me stating my rights and a refusal to even let them see my photos - something along the line of "I have no idea if your daughter appears in my photos. If she does, since she's in a public place, then there's nothing you can do about it." If they got more aggressive, then it would probably get elevated to me calling the police. If my wife was with me, there'd be hell to pay. She's an ex-litigation lawyer, and has never taken sh*t from anyone. You don't want to go up aganst her! ;)

Tommo1965

01-07-2011, 8:56am

the world we now live in has gone crazy...I feel for the OP....dunno what my reaction would have been...but i doubt it would have gone as well as the OP handled it...
best of luck next time your out and about

Rattus79

01-07-2011, 9:10am

Tis a sad thing, it's just all too common an occurence.

One thing I have learned. Giving them a big smile once the "rent a cops" have gone is generally not a good idea! :D

When they take offence to you giving them a big :D , telling them to "lighten up" is also not advisable.

When they decide that you're a smartass and take a swing at you, remember to duck.
(It's ok, I'm a trained professional Idiot)