They Call Themselves a PHOTOGRAPHER!!!!

[WannaBe]

Whilst chatting with a friend on msn today, she gave me a link to someone on fb who calls themselves a "photographer"....

I looked at the pictures and was :eek: ..... I am very amateur and I am sure I could take better photos than what was there.

I would like to show you the pics but I don't think I should.

Then we see that this person is also selling canvas prints... of scenes that any ole person could take. There is really nothing special about the prints at all.

How can one tell someone that their pics are not very good?

Or does one just shut their mouth and keep their opinions to themselves?

[ameerat42]

Well, some things leave one open-mouthed, but then, what can you say? You are right in not showing the link/pics. Think of it as a good, cheap rant. :Dm.

[jim]

Or does one just shut their mouth and keep their opinions to themselves?

I would. Everyone has a perfect right to sell the product of their labour. Nobody has to buy it.

[jeffde]

Being a "successful" photographer has just as much to do with business and marketing sense - then actually pressing the shutter.
In your opinion they can't take good photos - but then again i went to the Annie Leibowits (spelling ?) exhibition and 95% of her photos were terrible - I never win any comps in our local camera club - but those that do don't sell any photos either .....

Photos can be like art , very subjective- bite your tongue and then learn from what they are doing.....

[colinbm]

If you can't say something pleasant it is best to not say anything on the net :o
The person (photographer, anyone who takes a photo is a photographer) may have a handicap that is not known by you, which makes their work even more marvellous.
Col

[Ms Monny]

As learners (me being one so don't be offended) there are many times when the old 'geez, I could do that!' crops up every now and then. I have done that often in many stages of my creative past, including photography BUT now know I am not at that stage due to me being on here and seeing and learning from everyone else.

Maybe this person doesn't go on a forum and maybe this person is at a very young stage of their photography business and they still need to learn and grow with their photography. Just because you don't like their images certainly doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't either - beauty is in the eye of the beholder especially when it comes to art. My husband totally dislikes anything unnatural, and that means those lovely soft flowing water images (taken at a sloooow speed). He absolutely detests them which makes me laugh.

I am very glad you didn't show the photos as I feel this wouldn't be a nice thing to do to someone who is just out there trying to do their best (as long as that best is not a fraudulent or deceptive manner).

[Wayne]

umm, who cares..

What is good when looking at an art form is subjective, and if you own/use a camera to create a photo, then you ARE a photographer, not necessarily a good one, but a photographer nonetheless.

[ricktas]

I have moved this thread from the Business of Photography forum, to F-stop. The business of photography forum is for discussing photography business matters., not bashing 'photographers' who the OP did not even divulge or even state were Pro's and in business.

Please refrain from negative comments about specific photographers or I will remove this thread completely. Bashing other photographers is not a positive way for this site to go!

I have removed several posts from this thread and will continue to do so. If this thread continues with personal comments about other members posts and views, It will be removed.

[kiwi]

Anyone that makes money out of photography I tip my hat to. Respect.

[yummymummy]

Ever heard the saying " Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?? :confused013 Just sayin.... we all had to start somewhere, and if they are confident enough in themselves to charge money before they're actually ready, then so be it :confused013

[Longshots]

time for a quote I fear:


“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

Theodore Rosevelt

Says it all :)

[Scotty72]

Yeah! As photography has no licence or profession qualifications, that person has every right to sell their photos to anyone who buys them.

You, of course, have the right to not buy them and suggest the same to your friends etc.

But, unless the photographer is misrepresenting the quality of their work (and you can establish that) and you feel ripped off- I don't think you should complain too much.

[zollo]

it happens.

[mickyj]

Sometimes I look at my photos and wonder, am I any good ? Is it art ? Would I be able to sell this ? Sometimes I doubt myself and sometimes wonder if I have any talent.

Sometimes I think wow, this is super, I love it and want to share it. Sometimes I spent hours preparing for a shot and an proud of the result.

It is funny how sometimes the shots I don't like, others love. The ones I love, others don't like.

The world is full of different points of view. We all appreciate things differently. I am sure a colour blind person would not understand many photos. I am sure a postcard taken by a paraplegic in a wheelchair would sell, given enough exposure, as it is a major accomplishement. All of us here take photos and in turn buy photos for different reasons.

Personally, I am not a professional, it is not my business, I just love getting out and about, exploring the world around me, learning about photography and sharing the images with people. Some they like, some they don't.

I think it is good that you have aired your feelings, I think it is also good you did not name them. You asked a question and kept it quite above board.
Now ask yourself, is it possible that someone else likes their photos? There is a place for everyone in this world. Even an off beat realitive of mine who insists on taking photos at an angle with a point and shot. Every shot is wonky. It is funny as in my family they are well known for it and yet, some of the images, are fantastic and the offbeat style works.

As someone else said, let them sell their photos, if people buy, they buy. If not, it has not hurt anyone.

[ricktas]

I think there is a world of difference between someone sticking photos up on Facebook and selling a few, to the Professional Photographer who shoots weddings on a regular basis, etc. Anyone can call themselves a Photographer, but my personal view is that you have to be good to call yourself a Professional Photographer. Where the issue lies with most, is when someone purports to be a Professional Photographer and their work doesn't stand up under scrutiny.

[Longshots]

Yeah! As photography has no licence or profession qualifications, that person has every right to sell their photos to anyone who buys them.

You, of course, have the right to not buy them and suggest the same to your friends etc.

But, unless the photographer is misrepresenting the quality of their work (and you can establish that) and you feel ripped off- I don't think you should complain too much.

Excellent - totally agree.

I see plenty of items that I would not buy, and yet people do buy them - thats just business.

And yes big, big, major difference to selling a few prints and making a full time living out of it. Having been in both places I understand that very well.

Plenty of people succeed in business, and I personally look at the product that they sell, and I wonder how they do it - but they do. And there are plenty of photographers who work hard, succeed in producing a product for the market that they're selling to, at a price that that market will pay. Thats commerce.

I have to say that I cant see much skill I'm afraid in looking at something and saying I could do better then that. The skill is putting your money where your mouth is and actually doing it. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

By the way to answer the OP's question; how do you tell someone that you dont think their product is very good - dont buy it. Its that simple.

Time for another quote:


Knowing what to do, and doing what you know, can be a turning point

[PH005]

Buyer Beware.

[Terryw]

it seems to me that the market will determine if the work is professional (earns any money). I don't think you need to comment.

[ElectricImages]

I've seen some photographers whose work really isn't to my taste, who are incredible rich, famous, or both. I suspect I also see value in the work of some photographers who other members think are totally trash too (e.g .Henson). I've seen people breeze past original, iconic Ansel Adams prints without a second glance. So even if you think it's total trash, there *might* be some merit you don't see that others do...
There certainly are also some "photographers" who think thay are amazing because they have an SLR and get nice comments in Facebook. If they're a total stranger, I don't think it's my place to get involved. If they were my friend, I would have to balance up the possibility of my friend sending themselves broke and their family hungry on an ill-conceived venture, against possibly losing a friendship. If someone's that financially invested in something, it's likely there's significant emotional investment too, so one has to be careful.

[ApolloLXII]

I think it's pretty simple. If your images are good enough, you'll sell them. Unfortunately, there are always people looking to make a quick buck and they'll do just about anything (even if it's done really badly) in order to get it. I'm reminded of a market I once saw where there was a stand selling black & white prints, all ready to frame. I looked at about 5 prints before I walked off shaking my head. Not one of them was what you could call remotely good enough quality to even bother putting in a frame because they were blurry and looked like they had been printed on some kind of printer that probably dated from the beginning of the ink jet printer era.

Some people will try to pass off any old piece of crap and then attempt to dignify themselves with some sort of appropriate title (i.e. "Artist" or "Photographer" etc.) in order to try and give themselves some sort of legitimacy to the public. In instances such as this, it's far better to just walk away and say nothing. Sooner or later, such "fly-by-night" operators will probably give up once word has gotten around about the standard (or lack thereof) of their wares and instead of making much money, they will find themselves stuck with a plentiful supply of whatever crap they were trying to flog in the first place.

If the images displayed on Facebook are bad, then they certainly won't stand up against the images of someone who actually knows how to use a camera. You get what you pay for and if you want to pay good money for rubbish then that's what you'll get.

[ksolomon]

Wow I had read this thread carefully and appreciate everyone's different opinions, but I have to say on reading this I am in some ways considering taking down some of my work from FB and my personal website .. let me just say to date I do not offer to sell my pictures yet because joining groups like this makes me realise all too quickly that my photos are not yet professional but I think some are good maybe great in my eyes. I wish to grow and built slowly but you need to start your work somewhere (can't have a site without any photos) I don't built myself up to someone I am not so maybe this doesn't apply but I would like to see people like myself encoraged to do better rather than the latter and I guess if people's photos aren't that great they will go by the way in time .. just my 2 cents

[sunny6teen]

presumably the buyer is witnessing the photo first.

I dare say that some were disappointed buying untitled Cindy Sherman photos sight unseen... geez Cindy, would it kill you to hire a model once in a while? no wonder they're untitled.

[Ms Monny]

presumably the buyer is witnessing the photo first.

I dare say that some were disappointed buying untitled Cindy Sherman photos sight unseen... geez Cindy, would it kill you to hire a model once in a while? no wonder they're untitled.

I just had to check out who you were referring to.....very interesting!! :D

[mickyj]

Wow I had read this thread carefully and appreciate everyone's different opinions, but I have to say on reading this I am in some ways considering taking down some of my work from FB and my personal website .. let me just say to date I do not offer to sell my pictures yet because joining groups like this makes me realise all too quickly that my photos are not yet professional but I think some are good maybe great in my eyes. I wish to grow and built slowly but you need to start your work somewhere (can't have a site without any photos) I don't built myself up to someone I am not so maybe this doesn't apply but I would like to see people like myself encoraged to do better rather than the latter and I guess if people's photos aren't that great they will go by the way in time .. just my 2 cents

I think enjoying taking photos is half the battle. If you love it, develope your skill, and start taking good photos then it means you can share your enjoyment with others. This means you won the battle. I am proud of all my photos and that includes the bad ones. It is from the bad ones I learn and grow. Especially if others point out what I could have done to avoid the mistakes and make the photo better. Personally, I would leave your photos up on Facebook and personal site. They are a testimate to your growing in photography and ... they might not be half bad. You must have liked them for some reason.

[smallfooties]

It's kinda like my photos... majority of people think it's crap but there are a few who love them! So really, it's up to the individual viewer really...
And i tend not to bash anybody about their photos even if it's really crap because i wouldn't like it if people were to trash my photos now would i?
It's kinda like Karma.. don't do onto others what you don't want others to do onto you concept..
And who knows... maybe that person might become a successful photographer one day.. and that person will think back to all the people who have or have not supported him/her in their journey to success... they will remember you very well... so what would you like them to remember you for?
Anybody who weilds a camera can call themselves a photographer... a professional photography? Now, that is a different ball game all together... :rolleyes:

[achee]

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

Theodore Rosevelt


I love that quote! I feel like sticking it on the wall...


Wow I had read this thread carefully and appreciate everyone's different opinions, but I have to say on reading this I am in some ways considering taking down some of my work from FB and my personal website .. let me just say to date I do not offer to sell my pictures yet because joining groups like this makes me realise all too quickly that my photos are not yet professional but I think some are good maybe great in my eyes. I wish to grow and built slowly but you need to start your work somewhere (can't have a site without any photos) I don't built myself up to someone I am not so maybe this doesn't apply but I would like to see people like myself encoraged to do better rather than the latter and I guess if people's photos aren't that great they will go by the way in time .. just my 2 cents

I'm pretty much just starting out too... and as time goes on and my skills improve I find myself becoming more and more critical of my old portfolio and replacing old photos with new ones. Actually, in the last couple of weeks I learnt something new that makes me want to re-process EVERYTHING. Hmmm... dunno if I could be bothered doing that... but yeah, start somewhere, improve, and refresh your portfolio as you do! :) I hope that in another few months I can look back at the photos I'm taking today and say 'nah, that won't do anymore!'

By the way... IMHO a 'professional photographer' is anyone whose profession is to take photos, even if, in their field of professional photography, no amount of skill is required.

[fabian628]

Whilst chatting with a friend on msn today, she gave me a link to someone on fb who calls themselves a "photographer"....

I looked at the pictures and was :eek: ..... I am very amateur and I am sure I could take better photos than what was there.

I would like to show you the pics but I don't think I should.

Then we see that this person is also selling canvas prints... of scenes that any ole person could take. There is really nothing special about the prints at all.

How can one tell someone that their pics are not very good?

Or does one just shut their mouth and keep their opinions to themselves?

I reckon you should set up in competition to them! It is easy to disinguish good quality from bad quality. If people want cheap bad quality pictures then they cannot be helped.

[Analog6]

Like everyone all photographers images will not appeal to everyone. I have seen shots from internationally well known pros I wouldn't give wall space to, and shots from 'nobodies' that I would. That's the joy and woe of a free market economy. And as someone already said, you can learn from what they are doing - right or wrong (in your opinion). Opinions are like - well I'll use the navel instead of the more usual orifice - everybody has one.

[geoffsta]

As a pro (and I am not one) you would be asked by clients to take all sorts of shots. And although technically excellent, someone not knowing the story behind the image, may leave the viewer saying "What The"
It has happened here on this site on several occasions.
Before making any comments, find out a bit more about the TOG, and the story behind the images.

[Dylan & Marianne]

To the OP, I can empathise with you in that I often have that thought in my head when viewing such work
however,
That person has made a choice to market themselves in that way and to sell their images in that format. If they are successful, then kudos to them (for whatever reason it is that you cannot see).
If they aren't successful, they may well come to see that for themselves in the future. Whatever the case, I don't feel that it is helpful in general, to pass judgment and take personal offence at a problem which you perceive to be someone else's. (eg. so and so is a d*%&head, I'm going to get worked up about their problem!)
I'm glad you didn't show their work because that would really have served little positive function other than to validate or refute your own personal judgment about the quality of said person's work. In a moment of rashness I've been known to have made posts like that and regret it ! Lesson learned