Which way do you go?

[terry.langham]

Given a few of the recent off-topic topics, I have been wondering exactly what political demographic makes up AP. Clearly what I had though was way off, so lets have a poll, even if it isn't a credible one :D

Obviously there is no need to get into a political debate/insult slinging match, but perhaps a post with a couple of the issues that are important to you when you vote would be interesting as well.

[terry.langham]

I will go first. Sound economics are perhaps the most important thing to me, as while the country is in good shape and people are spending money I have work.

[kiwi]

I'm an immigrant, I love the color black

I'm really not sure what you're getting at ?

[mpb]

Independents generally, I hate party politics. Looks like I don't get to vote in this poll.

[kiwi]

Oooooooooo a poll, can't see polls on my iPhone, sorry

[ricktas]

Independents generally, I hate party politics. Looks like I don't get to vote in this poll.

I added Independants!

[Scotty72]

How about totally disaffected with the lot of 'em?

Vote 1 the donkey

[terry.langham]

How about totally disaffected with the lot of 'em?

Vote 1 the donkey

Wouldn't have needed any other options then :D

Thanks Rick, how could I forget the independents.

[ameerat42]

I would suspect that there's quite a range on AP. It's pretty big. Interesting to see what the poll shows. Maybe we could have gravy for the "donkey" voters.
Am.

[Scotty72]

I guess, if Australia actually still had a liberal party, I might vote for it.

The current mob that masquerades as a liberal party is anything but.

[Mark L]

I vote for the person who will put the greatest effort into representing my electorate. That generally precludes the major parties.

[Wayne]

Where is the who cares option??

[wmphoto]

I think a lot of people would change the way they voted if they understood the system better and how preferences work. A protest vote for a minor party can actually mean you are, in effect, voting for the major party that you are protesting against, due to preferences.

Also the Rudd / Gillard affair highlighted that many people don't realise that we don't vote for the leader, and people are influenced by our presidential style campaigns.

[Art Vandelay]

I'm the reason they have elections. :D

Have more of a liberal leaning, but have crossed the floor on occasions, when it's advantageous locally.

Funny thing is, am probably more a shade of light green, but wouldn't dare waste a vote on the current bunch of loonies.

[Tannin]

I think a lot of people would change the way they voted if they understood the system better and how preferences work. A protest vote for a minor party can actually mean you are, in effect, voting for the major party that you are protesting against, due to preferences.

Hoolie Doolie! This is so wrong it's almost funny. This is the exact opposite of the truth. That is what the preferential system is for - vote for who you like, and if you can't have them, you get your second choice, and third, and so on.

[wmphoto]

Hoolie Doolie! This is so wrong it's almost funny. This is the exact opposite of the truth. That is what the preferential system is for - vote for who you like, and if you can't have them, you get your second choice, and third, and so on.
Thanks for agreeing with me :rolleyes:

[Tannin]

No worries 2BAD4U. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of verifiable fact.

In the Australian electoral system, there is no way to achieve anything like the backwards result you mentioned. (Unlike the unfair and rather primitive US and UK systems, which work just as you say.) It is, plain and simple, impossible. So we don't have to "agree to differ" on this matter - if you understand how voting works in Australia, the answer is plain. If you don't understand the Australian system, then we can talk it over.

[Bennymiata]

This sounds like a dangerous thread.
May end up almost as bad as the Carbon Tax thread.

Personally, I think we should stay away from politics here, as it could make enemies out of people, whereas the aim (I guess it is anyway) of this forum is to bring photographers together, and not drive them apart.

I haven't voted and don't really want to be a part of a slanging match.

[ving]

I dont seem to be able to see my option there... no i dont mean gravy! (though there should be gravy there)

I dont vote based on what party i like or dislike. I dont donkey vote. I dont vote indies as a from of punishment for a party i dont like. I dont vote for what my parents voted for, I dont vote for whoever is popular at the time... i base my votes on what each politically party has to offer come election time, what policies they put forward, what i gain from said policies, what the country gains from said policies, etc.

i want gravy...

VOTE 1

VOTE GRAVY!

[Bax]

I'm with Ving on this. If everybody cared about voting, and voted for the people that they believed would do the best for their country and electorate. We'd have a lot more of a chance getting a government that we appreciate.

Donkey votes are a waste - and too many people I know that Donkey vote always complain about 'stupid politicians'

$5 dollars each way for me.

[wmphoto]

Tannin to clarify what I am saying - if someone puts a "1" above the line rather than number all the boxes below the line, and they have no idea how the preferences are distributed, then they could in theory be voting for a major party.

IE: I put a 1 against the Zoo party and that's the only vote they receive and their preferences go to Labor, then under the 2 party preferred system my vote effectively ends up with Labor. However, if I number all the boxes below the line then I decide the order my votes are distributed.

Likewise, the recent election(s) highlighted that a vote for Green resulted in a Labor government, but a lot of Green voters didn't realise that this would happen (similar to the support of the Independents for Labor which many people didn't see coming).

I am not disputing what you are saying, but more the fact that a lot of people don't understand the two party preferred system and preferences.

[Tannin]

I am not disputing what you are saying, but more the fact that a lot of people don't understand the two party preferred system and preferences.

Given that there is no such thing as a "two party preferred system", I entirely agree that no-one understands it!

Bahhh ... if you vote above the line, you get exactly what you asked for. No sympathy from me there. This sounds like the typical "we woz robbed" bleating the conservative parties are notorious for after every election they didn't win.

Intelligent citizens never vote above the line (except in the circumstance where their preferred party happens to have a card they agree with in every particular). Further, in nearly all (not all, just nearly all) cases the parties and candidates number their HTV cards in a fairly sensible and predictable way, so that if you do vote above the line, your preferences are usually distributed broadly in agreement with your wishes. There are exceptions though: notably the utter stupidity of the ALP two elections ago in giving prefs to Family First and getting that fruitcake Fielding elected. The Libs puled something similar at the last Victorian state election where they preferenced Labor!

[kiwi]

This sounds like a dangerous thread.
May end up almost as bad as the Carbon Tax thread.

Personally, I think we should stay away from politics here, as it could make enemies out of people, whereas the aim (I guess it is anyway) of this forum is to bring photographers together, and not drive them apart.

I haven't voted and don't really want to be a part of a slanging match.

You can just vote, you don't need to comment

[kiwi]

On a world-wide scale of where ultra right ring are a 0 and ultra-left wing parties are a 10, where do you think Australia's current Labour and Liberal parties are - I think they are BOTH about 4 and there's really little difference in policy - so - taking away the lunatic fringe in the Greens, does it matter ?

[Tannin]

Liberals: 3 on average
Labor: 4 mostly
Greens: 6

[wmphoto]

This may help. Even the AEC talk about Two Party Preferred. I'm going to leave it here at get back to taking photographs.

http://aec.gov.au/Voting/counting/index.htm

http://aec.gov.au/Voting/counting/hor_count.htm

http://aec.gov.au/Voting/counting/senate_count.htm

[Geoff79]

Independants or Other single issue parties - not quite sure. I usually pick the 'No Parking Meters in Sydney' or 'Sex Party' or something like that.

I have a large hatred for elections and will never understand why a vote is compulsory. I'd much rather leave the vote for people who know or care about politics. Me putting in some random vote doesn't help anyone out. Should not be compulsory.

[ameerat42]

...I have a large hatred for elections and will never understand why a vote is compulsory. I'd much rather leave the vote for people who know or care about politics. Me putting in some random vote doesn't help anyone out. Should not be compulsory...

Your first bit I can't help you with, so onto the 2nd:

It's simple, really: it is to give you the chance to exercise your democratic right. Have you ever thought how it would be if you did not have such a right?

And so, why is it compulsory in this country and not in other democracies? Think that if we didn't have this compulsion the whole election process and the resulting governments would be so much less democratic, if indeed democratic at all! (Lobby and interest groups could easily hold sway.) It would be like, say, 20% of the eligible voters having the final say in electing a government. You might end up liking such an outcome even less.

From what you say, you already DO "...leave the vote for people who know or care about politics..." Lucky for you there are some such around, you may care to reflect. In the same vein, you choose to exercise your democratic right in a guaranteed non-productive way. That is indeed a privilege.

Lastly, I will just say that I do not agree that ...[voting] "...Should not be compulsory..."
Am.

[Geoff79]

Have you ever thought how it would be if you did not have such a right?

Often, and it excites me. :)

Without getting into a discussion about things I don't know, or care to know enough about, I just truly don't believe it makes a difference in the end who you vote for. The same people will continue to roll the way they do, even if the face "in charge" changes every few years. And my uneducated (by choice) vote won't change that. ;)

[geoffsta]

Personally the voting system in Australia sux. Until I learnt how to vote in my mid twenties I would vote for the one I liked. As it is now I go through all the preferences and make sure that the one I dislike does not get a single vote.
What ever happened to "One person, One vote" the one with the highest amount of votes wins. :confused013
As for the poll, I can't tick any. Maybe you should have had; The party that appears to offer more common sense than the rest.

As for the Carbon Tax thread, I totally enjoyed it. All that posted only posted what they believed to be right. And I respect everyone who contributed, because they were willing to stand up for what the believe in, without any animosity towards any other member. In my opinion anyway. :th3:

[Bennymiata]

The problem we have here is that all the good politicians are too busy taking photos, driving taxis and serving beer! :D

[Mark L]

I have a large hatred for elections and will never understand why a vote is compulsory. I'd much rather leave the vote for people who know or care about politics. Me putting in some random vote doesn't help anyone out. Should not be compulsory.

Well it's compulsory to turn up and get your name marked of the electoral roll. What you do or DON'T put on your ballet paper is known only by you!

[Geoff79]

Well it's compulsory to turn up and get your name marked of the electoral roll. What you do or DON'T put on your ballet paper is known only by you!
Yep, valid point. Once I'm there I always feel inclined to put in a vote for one of those sexy little parties, but I'd rather not have to bother with the whole process at all.

Even on a quieter day, you'll stand there lined up for the best part of an hour and trips like that have a nasty habit of eating into a day. This year, as we were in Fiji at the time, the process to get an absentee vote set up was annoying too.

I just think that if it doesn't interest you, you needn't be involved.

[Mark L]

I just think that if it doesn't interest you, you needn't be involved.

I just think that if it doesn't interest you, you might think of all the people elsewhere who have died for their right to vote.


Well it's compulsory to turn up and get your name marked of the electoral roll. What you do or DON'T put on your ballet paper is known only by you!

So an hour here or there isn't that important is it? (State of Origin time excluded of course :))

[Boo53]

Your first bit I can't help you with, so onto the 2nd:

It's simple, really: it is to give you the chance to exercise your democratic right. Have you ever thought how it would be if you did not have such a right?

Am.

I'd actually go further & suggest its more than a right, its a responsibility

And as for the way I vote, I guess my approach is the same as that that Ving detailed about

[jim]

Swing voter. I swing despairingly between Labor and the Greens.

[I @ M]

Intelligent citizens never vote above the line (except in the circumstance where their preferred party happens to have a card they agree with in every particular).

:th3: Tony, you are good at mathematics, what percentage of the voting population do you reckon actually vote below the line though? I would hazard a guess at about 2% going by the results of the last 60 or so years of elections in Australia. :(


Well it's compulsory to turn up and get your name marked of the electoral roll. What you do or DON'T put on your ballet paper is known only by you!

:th3: We can only wish that the ENTIRE voting population of Australia would remember that at the next federal election, that might ( heavy emphasis on might ) just make a few pollies take notice, after all it would mean destruction of their desire to have a generous superannuation payment do the best thing for their constituents.

Next time, I am voting for the party / politician that promises to remove the GST from photographic related items. :D

[Rattus79]

This poll is flawed!!

It needs a final option:

The only good politician is a DEAD one!!!

[AmyK]

I dont seem to be able to see my option there... no i dont mean gravy! (though there should be gravy there)

I dont vote based on what party i like or dislike. I dont donkey vote. I dont vote indies as a from of punishment for a party i dont like. I dont vote for what my parents voted for, I dont vote for whoever is popular at the time... i base my votes on what each politically party has to offer come election time, what policies they put forward, what i gain from said policies, what the country gains from said policies, etc.

i want gravy...

VOTE 1

VOTE GRAVY!

Definitely agree. I was most disappointed in the most recent local election, as I'd moved house, but forgotten to update my electoral role details, so I still had to vote. Normally I like getting all the info in the mail, and seeing what each candidate is planning on doing. This time I didn't get a chance, as I now live outside of that electorate.


:th3: Tony, you are good at mathematics, what percentage of the voting population do you reckon actually vote below the line though? I would hazard a guess at about 2% going by the results of the last 60 or so years of elections in Australia. :(

I did vote below the line last election, however, in my area, there is only about 17 members or so. I feel for those who have 70 + members...It's no wonder that people in those areas vote above the line.

[Bennymiata]

Funny that in a free country, we are forced to vote regardless of whether we want to or not.

However, there is one thing that really irks me about our voting system, and that is that anyone can turn up to a booth and perport to be you and vote.
They don't even ask for any identification, nor do they have to!

No wonder one of the parties tell their members to vote early, and vote often!
It's amazing how many dead people vote.........................................

[Geoff79]

I just think that if it doesn't interest you, you might think of all the people elsewhere who have died for their right to vote.


And people have died planking. Something I also have no interest in.

Sorry mate, just because someone else died for something they believed in, does not mean I need to believe or have an interest in the same thing. No disrespect meant to the deceased, of course.

Billions of people have died for religion... don't even get me started on what I think of any and all religion or what I'd think of dying for it... because then it'll just get offensive. :(

As they say, to each their own.

[fillum]

NSW (and Qld ?) imo has a good system of voting - optional preferential. You can give preferences to as few, or as many as you like. For the upper house you can put preferences above the line (again for as few or as many as you like) - if you just put "1" no one gets your preferences. However I'm told the upper house counting method is a bit strange, which is why a certain former Qld fish-and-chip shop owner almost got up last election.

If I know anything about the candidates I tend to go with the one I like (or in some instances dislike the least :(). Given that Coalition candidates are almost invisible in my electorates they are unlikely to get my vote.


Cheers.

[Scotty72]

And people have died planking. Something I also have no interest in.

Sorry mate, just because someone else died for something they believed in, does not mean I need to believe or have an interest in the same thing. No disrespect meant to the deceased, of course.

Billions of people have died for religion... don't even get me started on what I think of any and all religion or what I'd think of dying for it... because then it'll just get offensive. :(

As they say, to each their own.


Thanks for this post.

I think the argument that, 'people have fought & died for the right to vote: therefore you should be compelled to' is world class dumbness - and the retort of the utterly lazy.

People have also fought and died for the right to practise religion... So, do we make attendance at church etc. compulsory too.
Others have fought and died for the right to bear arms... Are we all, therefore, required to carry an AK-47?
I know! Free speech. We should all be compelled to never stop talking.
And the right to life - so don't you dare die!

Back when I was a uni student: a group of us decided to each vote 7 times in the one election. We were floored at how easy it was. If only we were in a very marginal seat.

[ApolloLXII]

If you think it's worth the time and effort to vote for people that promise you the earth and then give you all the excuses under the sun (core or non-core anyone?) to not deliver on those promises then, by all means vote. Personally, I'd like to see non-compulsory voting with all parties and candidates having campaign funding limits so it doesn't end up like the U.S. where obscene amounts of money get thrown around. Like that's ever gonna happen :lol:

[PH005]

When you mentioned " Swingers ", I was worried that we might get taken off the net. Ahhh where would we be without politics ? Probably a lot better off ! It is funny when you think about it, that we think that the people we vote in can do the right thing by us. They don't have one iota who I am or what are my biggest concerns. Furthermore, they dont care. I must do some more indepth reading to find out who is to blame for all this. :)

[ameerat42]

When you mentioned " Swingers ", I was worried that we might get taken off the net. Ahhh where would we be without politics ? Probably a lot better off ! It is funny when you think about it, that we think that the people we vote in can do the right thing by us. They don't have one iota who I am or what are my biggest concerns. Furthermore, they dont care. I must do some more indepth reading to find out who is to blame for all this. :)

Simple, Ph005, without blaming anyone, just re-read some of the posts...:D

And now, in case it sounds like I'm just advocating mayhem, re-read mine.
Hm.m!

[mechawombat]

I have to agree with Ving :th3:

I vote whoever tells the best porkies to attract me
however as we have 3 levels of government we get to hear lots of porkies

When i say porkies I mean policies :lol:

[mongo]

Independents generally, I hate party politics. Looks like I don't get to vote in this poll.

Interesting notion - but how many “independents” are actually independent these days??? We have several of them making up the federal labor government at present.


I dont seem to be able to see my option there... no i dont mean gravy! (though there should be gravy there)
I dont vote based on what party i like or dislike. I dont donkey vote. I dont vote indies as a from of punishment for a party i dont like. I dont vote for what my parents voted for, I dont vote for whoever is popular at the time... i base my votes on what each politically party has to offer come election time, what policies they put forward, what i gain from said policies, what the country gains from said policies, etc. ...

Ving is on the right track BUT, no matter which party or person:-

1. Can you trust them to keep their promises ?? too many classic examples of them blatantly not doing so e.g. Gillard before election – there will be No carbon tax. Gillard after the election – there must be a carbon tax
2. Even if they try to keep their promises, are they competent enough to do it properly. Too many fiascos in last 18 months to even start to quote them.

Gosh ! that donkey is looking real good and not just for culinary purposes !

[macmich]

i will vote for whoever allows live exports