40D 50D 60D for Sport?

[Fredo]

Hi Folks,
I am making the jump to DSLR-land and would like some Canon specific info from real world users if that's okay?
My plan was/is to look for a second hand body so I can spend more on lenses.
I like the Nikon D300 but I haven't really looked at the Canon offerings until now.

Mostly, shooting sports so FPS is important. I shoot 5fps now with my Panasonic FZ100 and don't want to shoot any slower.
Any suggestions as to what to look at in the Canon range? 40D; 50D; 60D?

Thanks in advance.
Fred

[FallingHorse]

7D :D

[kiwi]

D300s is still the best crop camera for sport regardless of brand.

[Bennymiata]

The 60D is fine for 5fps, especially if you have a good SD card in it, but the 7D is better.
The 7D is faster and also has faster AF.

However, I have used my 60D for rapid fire shots of bees and birds, and it seems to cope really well.

[Fredo]

D300s is still the best crop camera for sport regardless of brand.

Thanks Daz,
Now I feel guilty for asking about Canon (lol)
Had a D300s in hand last week with the battery grip. Pulled the trigger on 8fps . . . holy crap! Like a machine gun!

[KeeFy]

The 60D is fine for 5fps, especially if you have a good SD card in it, but the 7D is better.
The 7D is faster and also has faster AF.

However, I have used my 60D for rapid fire shots of bees and birds, and it seems to cope really well.


Birds and the bees? :P

[Fredo]

Birds and the bees? :P

yeah . . . I wasn't going to say anything :rolleyes:

[andylo]

If you don't do video....

50D is my pick and 40D if you are on a rather tight budget.

Yes, 7D would ideal... in fact a 1D is THE most ideal but can you justify the extra $ :)

[etherial]

Re your question of those, I would choose the 50D. It is 6fps and a very nicely put together body. You should be able to pick one up for a good price, and they are a great camera.

If you can afford it go for the 7D as it is 8fps, and a great focusing system to go with it that shoots sports very nicely. (I have the 7D and bought a 50D as a backup ;))

[Old Skool]

I've used a 7D for footy pics, machine gun shutter. Great camera but at a cost. Bang for buck I would look for a 50D. I own a 50D & a 60D and use them for footy pics. Both are close in fps, but in the real world the 50D actually is faster and feels faster. I also get more keepers with the 50D over the 60D with the same lens (EF200 F2.8L) on both. More blurred out of focus shots on the 60D so guessing the 50D maybe has a slightly different / better focusing system. That said 60D is better at low noise / higher ISO eg for indoor basketball shots. The 50D has micro adjust which isn't on the 60D, so another reason to get the 50D, plus it has magnesium body vs 60D polycarb and supposed better weather sealing than 60D. Note that the 50D is bigger and heavier in the hand esp with a grip over 60D.

[Fredo]

Thanks to all for info.
Much appreciated.

Fred :th3:

[Namus]

Agreed - if for sports, 7D if you can stretch, and 40D (2nd-hand) if you're on a budget.

[Dwarak]

I would def recommend the 7d for the shutter speed and the auto focus great you can move the AF points by looking through the view finder it's good for macro work as well.

[Tannin]

Why would anyone recommend a D300s over a 7D for sport? Seems like a very odd thing to say.

(Don't shoot me, just asking.)

[fillum]

Re FPS: when I shoot 'slow ball' sports (junior Aussie rules, basketball, touch-footy) I don't use 'burst' mode but prefer to try and get the timing right myself. I miss a few (well maybe more than a few :() but hopefully over the longer term it will make me a better shooter. (And sorting through 200 shots at the end of the day is a fair bit easier than 1000 :)). For 'fast ball' sports (baseball in my case) shooting in bursts at a decent fps helps when shooting batters but I still shoot the pitchers and fielders in single-shot mode.



Cheers.

[kiwi]

I doubt it, pro shooters all use burst, the art is when to start

[KeeFy]

Re FPS: when I shoot 'slow ball' sports (junior Aussie rules, basketball, touch-footy) I don't use 'burst' mode but prefer to try and get the timing right myself. I miss a few (well maybe more than a few :() but hopefully over the longer term it will make me a better shooter. (And sorting through 200 shots at the end of the day is a fair bit easier than 1000 :)). For 'fast ball' sports (baseball in my case) shooting in bursts at a decent fps helps when shooting batters but I still shoot the pitchers and fielders in single-shot mode.

The thing about fps is, use it or lose it. What i mean by that is the difference between a money shot and a average shot could be that split milisecond and in highspeed action sport, you need all the fps you can get. Go down to a footy match or something along those lines and see if you can get close to the pro photogs. High chance is everyone is using burst mode and something along the lines of a 1d/d3. They rely on that one shot for $$ and why shouldn't you? There is no time for regrets. :)

As kiwi statesm the "art is when to start" and learning to preempt the shot is necessary, but i doubt you'll learn it by taking single shots.

[reaction]

Note that 60D is a lower spec than 50D.

The thing is not just fps, it's buffer size. D300s has 17 RAW buffer. That's just over 2s at 8fps.
7D also has over 1s buffer, while 50D series has less.

Also the 9 AF points of the 50D series won't track 3D very well, if at all.

So it's really the D300s 51pts or 7D 19pts you should be looking at.

[kiwi]

Re the RAW buffer, most sport shooters use JPEG still under average daylight conditions. I think there's minimal benefit in using RAW in this genre.....so....yes the buffer size is still important, but you can get a lot more than 2s of shooting on a D300 if you shoot JPEG.

[William]

Re FPS: when I shoot 'slow ball' sports (junior Aussie rules, basketball, touch-footy) I don't use 'burst' mode but prefer to try and get the timing right myself. I miss a few (well maybe more than a few :() but hopefully over the longer term it will make me a better shooter. (And sorting through 200 shots at the end of the day is a fair bit easier than 1000 :)). For 'fast ball' sports (baseball in my case) shooting in bursts at a decent fps helps when shooting batters but I still shoot the pitchers and fielders in single-shot mode.



Cheers.

I'm with you Phil, I dont ever use Burst mode , , Mind you the only sports I shoot is Surfing and BMX, But I'm a single shot guy !! I'd rather use my Judgement and timing to get the shot , Cuts down on going through a heap of crap shots at the end of the day IMO


A couple of examples , All done with single shot

First one Quiksilver Pro at Snapper Rocks


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5012/5511544830_e7c9ff4e04_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57507865@N06/5511544830/)



Second one Last weekend at the Bike Park


Son William

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2619/5806772700_5407193a02_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57507865@N06/5806772700/)

You just have to have timing and know whats going to happen , Before hand - Bill :) PS : I shoot in RAW

[kiwi]

Nice shots William, and it does display that you can do a one shot, would it have really mattered in either if you had shot in burst for 3 seconds and missed just that moment ?

Like this ?

http://www.peakactionimages.com/gallery/main.php/d/94222-3/PAI_3708.jpg

There's NO way you can time that using single shot

[William]

Good point as well Darren, Great shot BTW, Your making me want to get across to the local AFL Footy Field across the road on the weekend to prove a point (100mtrs away) :D Heaps to look at in that shot tho , I'll get back on this one ;):)

[kiwi]

excuse the negative space, but here's another AFL example, you just cant get the ball close to hand consistently without using FPS - yes - youll get some by lucking it, but you want every one, or at least I do. I can rattle through 1000 pics in 20 minutes so Id rather have a choice

http://www.peakactionimages.com/gallery/main.php/d/179778-1/JUL_4571.jpg

[Chris Michel]

There was an intresting article by a Sports Illustrated tog who shot film.. He stated that he could shoot an entire NFL game with 3 rolls of 24 shot film and walk away with exactly what the picture editor wanted for a lead story. One shot - one kill

[kiwi]

Yes, Im sure that's true also.

[Bennymiata]

FPS is not all it's cracked up to be.

Think about this.
If you are taking shots at 10fps, and using a shutter speed of 1000th of a second, out of that second, you are still going to miss 90/100 (90%) of the action, so being observant is still important.
Having fast fps does not guarentee that you will get that killer shot.

My 60D will rattle off 3 seconds worth of it's 5.3fps in RAW, but I know other cameras will do more.
How many frames your camera will rattle off before stopping, is also dependant on how fast your memory card is and how fast your buffer can spill its guts into the card.
If you are using a slow card, after filling the buffer, you may have to wait around for 10-20 seconds until the buffer has emptied itself waiting for the next burst.

[kiwi]

assuming that peak action lasts for 1/10 of s second - like the example I posted, you still have a chance using 10fps....you have bucklys chance if you try to nail it in a single shot, I dont care if you're Dave Black. Now, is a shot 1/10s each side still going to be good - sure - just not nailed

[William]

:D I wonder if we've answered Freds (The Thread starter) ) Question for him , Or just confused him more , Whats the outcome of this do you think ?

[kiwi]

yeah, he bought a D300 anyhow :D

[William]

I'm still going over to the Footy field on the weekend Darren for some high speed action , D300 I'm told is a good Camera BTW from a canon shooter :th3:

[kiwi]

I look forward to seeing your shots too William.

[gabby]

Thanks Guys- I had been wondering what the difference was between the 50D and 60D -sounds like I'm still better off getting the 50D seeing I can't afford the 7D.

[DNA]

Re FPS: when I shoot 'slow ball' sports (junior Aussie rules, basketball, touch-footy) I don't use 'burst' mode but prefer to try and get the timing right myself. I miss a few (well maybe more than a few :() but hopefully over the longer term it will make me a better shooter. (And sorting through 200 shots at the end of the day is a fair bit easier than 1000 :)). For 'fast ball' sports (baseball in my case) shooting in bursts at a decent fps helps when shooting batters but I still shoot the pitchers and fielders in single-shot mode.
Cheers.

I agree 100% with what you said. It's laughable (to me at least) when people rave about xxxxxfps. It's not the end of the world if your camera can only shoot 3,4,5,6,7,8 or whatever. A great photographer can and will be able to use any camera to get the picture the way he or she wants it regardless of frame rate. :)

[etherial]

... A great photographer can and will be able to use any camera to get the picture the way he or she wants it regardless of frame rate. :)

I don't agree. It 100% depends on what you are shooting. I shoot dogs and dog movement demands frame rate, the faster the better to get the perfect stride. It makes a huge difference as to whether I get the shot or not during competition.

[kiwi]

I agree 100% with what you said. It's laughable (to me at least) when people rave about xxxxxfps. It's not the end of the world if your camera can only shoot 3,4,5,6,7,8 or whatever. A great photographer can and will be able to use any camera to get the picture the way he or she wants it regardless of frame rate. :)

As a sport photographer as I've said before there is even at 10fps only one shot that is peak action though it doesn't mean the other 9 are crap. I want the one and I'm prepared to delete the rest

Could I shoot sport in single shot mode and still get great shots sure, would they all be moment perfect, no

[screamer]

I shoot Aussie Rules and used to use a 300D and kit lens. Hopeless. Went to a 300D with a 70-200 F2.8 IS and much better.

Replaced the 300D with a second hand 40D and SO much better. Added a x1.4 extender and I am now very confident I can get good shots in most circumstances. The 6.5 fps is necessary for high speed sports like Aussie Rules. I agree a 7D would be great - but even more important is your lens in this area.