Could it really be this cheap?

[Fedgrub]

Hi all,

I started a thread a while ago about the 5D MKII, and was suggested the 7D for a few reasons. Anyway, I've decided to get a 7D and am currently shopping around.

http://www.canon.com.au/en-au/For-You/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/7D

I've read that grey market lenses are covered by an international warranty, but bodies are not, so I am thinking of buying my body in Australia and get a grey lens.

But... The grey market prices are confusing me, and some of the sites don't make me feel very confident. The prices are very low, but it's making me worried about what I'm getting for that. Can anyone confirm that there are no differences between the following?

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod6341.htm
and
http://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com.au/canon-ef-s-18-135mm-f3.5-5.6-is-lenses.html

There's no differences from what I can see, just looking for some reassurance that I'm not missing a feature or a pitfall in grey market lenses.

Thanks!

[William]

:eek: $420 is a big saving , But how come ? I'll be interested as well :confused013

[JM Tran]

too big of a price difference and too good to be true, digital camera warehouse is well known but I have never heard of the latter....However, I had a look at their other products, and they are in accordance with grey-import pricing. Could be a website typo with the cheap price for the lens you posted as I have seen on some sites in the past.

[davearnold]

I bought my 7D through digital camera warehouse, and took extended 5 year (factory + 4yrs) warranty option .... would buy lens's grey, but never a body.

I know people who have bought lens's through eglobal with out a problem, but postage can be expensive, and then difference between local "grey" (e.g. DDP) prices is then minimal.

If you are ever looking at a unknown seller google "seller's name" reveiw and read what comes up.

Cheers

[PH005]

Can I just say Fedgrub, That the lens you have posted here is not of a high enough standard to go with a 7D. I just sold one of these lenses, 2nd hand, and would rate it as a kit lens.

[Fedgrub]

Thanks for everyones feedback.


Can I just say Fedgrub, That the lens you have posted here is not of a high enough standard to go with a 7D. I just sold one of these lenses, 2nd hand, and would rate it as a kit lens.

Good point. I am only looking at this one because it is a kit lens, and it will be cheaper to import it to go with my 7D body to complete what I would otherwise buy as a whole package from DCW. Which lens would you recommend?

[ving]

nothing wrong with grey gear, but i havent used eglobal before

[Bennymiata]

I've bought most of my camera equipment, including bodies, lenses, flashes, filters etc through grey marketers, and every piece has been perfect.

The savings are huge, so you can buy even more stuff!

As a matter of fact, on Monday, I ordered a genuine battery grip for my Canon 60D from a grey marketeer and paid only $143.87 (including freight) and DCW sells them for $236.00.
A substantial saving!
I received it today and have just tried it out, and it seems to be perfect too.
Defintely is the real deal, as the box and instructions and warranty card are all ridgy-didge.

The companies I mainly use are Top Buy and Dino Direct, but there are many others out there too.

[PH005]

Thanks for everyones feedback.



Good point. I am only looking at this one because it is a kit lens, and it will be cheaper to import it to go with my 7D body to complete what I would otherwise buy as a whole package from DCW. Which lens would you recommend?

By the way, The 18-135 is not a USM lens either. As a walkabout for the 7D ? The 24-105 F4L would be a nice start . The debates on lenses are long and many. :)

[Fedgrub]

I've bought most of my camera equipment, including bodies, lenses, flashes, filters etc through grey marketers, and every piece has been perfect.

The savings are huge, so you can buy even more stuff!

As a matter of fact, on Monday, I ordered a genuine battery grip for my Canon 60D from a grey marketeer and paid only $143.87 (including freight) and DCW sells them for $236.00.
A substantial saving!
I received it today and have just tried it out, and it seems to be perfect too.
Defintely is the real deal, as the box and instructions and warranty card are all ridgy-didge.

The companies I mainly use are Top Buy and Dino Direct, but there are many others out there too.

Thanks for the recommendations!


By the way, The 18-135 is not a USM lens either. As a walkabout for the 7D ? The 24-105 F4L would be a nice start . The debates on lenses are long and many. :)

Just read a couple of reviews, it looks good but expensive. Totally missed it being a USM. I'm used to clunky focusing sounds from my 18-105mm nikkor lens so I guess that part wouldn't bother me too much. Maybe one day I can afford that beast!

[etherial]

Big price difference hey. The site I often frequent and one I bought my 7D amongst other things from is Digital World International. They have the lens you ask about here (http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/store/product.asp?idProduct=2367)for $329 so it seems to me Digital Camera Warehouse is over the odds on this one. I bought my 70-200/2.8IS from DCW and picked it up in Melbourne, they were priced quite well. Ironically it is the only part of my equipment I have bought in Australia retail, and I had issues with it and had to send it back! To their credit they had it fixed and it is now my favourite lens. ;)

[smallfooties]

just out of curiousity, have you ever tried to get your local shop to give you a good bargain?
I don't know if i was lucky or not... but when i was shopping for my 105mm... i went to all the shops that i knew about to enquire about pricing... after going to a few of them... i finally stopped at this particular shop in the city...
i told them that another shop was offering me at a lower price... the guy after thinking for a bit... decided to beat that price... and i ended up saving close to $200.
So i don't know if it's worth you trying? So you don't have to get grey imports?:confused013

[dulvariprestige]

Have you thought about a 17-85, it's got IS and USM, these can be had for a good price new and 2nd hand on ebay.

[Boofhead]

Big price difference hey. The site I often frequent and one I bought my 7D amongst other things from is Digital World International. They have the lens you ask about here (http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/store/product.asp?idProduct=2367)for $329 so it seems to me Digital Camera Warehouse is over the odds on this one. I bought my 70-200/2.8IS from DCW and picked it up in Melbourne, they were priced quite well. Ironically it is the only part of my equipment I have bought in Australia retail, and I had issues with it and had to send it back! To their credit they had it fixed and it is now my favourite lens. ;)

+1 for Digital World International. I purchased my 70-200 from them and it was great service. Bought my 7D locally when it was on sale at Hardly Normal on 40 months interest free.

[Fedgrub]

just out of curiousity, have you ever tried to get your local shop to give you a good bargain?
I don't know if i was lucky or not... but when i was shopping for my 105mm... i went to all the shops that i knew about to enquire about pricing... after going to a few of them... i finally stopped at this particular shop in the city...
i told them that another shop was offering me at a lower price... the guy after thinking for a bit... decided to beat that price... and i ended up saving close to $200.
So i don't know if it's worth you trying? So you don't have to get grey imports?:confused013

I asked DCW for a cheaper price, and it was a firm no. I haven't tried Teds or Camera House yet. There is a small store in the Brisbane CBD that I want to try too.


Have you thought about a 17-85, it's got IS and USM, these can be had for a good price new and 2nd hand on ebay.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will check it out!


+1 for Digital World International. I purchased my 70-200 from them and it was great service. Bought my 7D locally when it was on sale at Hardly Normal on 40 months interest free.

Nice, I will check out DWI. I was thinking of getting it from Harvey Norman on their interest free too. Were they happy to price match it? They're always heaps more expensive.

[PH005]

Fedgrub. Try out Photo Continental on Logan Rd, Upper Mt Gravatt. I bought a lens off them a while back and they matched the DWI price. It was quite a saving. Just let them know exactly what you want, and the best price that you can get it for online. They will ring you back with their price. I found them very good to deal with.

[Fedgrub]

Fedgrub. Try out Photo Continental on Logan Rd, Upper Mt Gravatt. I bought a lens off them a while back and they matched the DWI price. It was quite a saving. Just let them know exactly what you want, and the best price that you can get it for online. They will ring you back with their price. I found them very good to deal with.

Wow, that's great. It's a bit of a drive, but if they can meet the online price, it would definitely be worth it. Thanks!

[Boofhead]

Nice, I will check out DWI. I was thinking of getting it from Harvey Norman on their interest free too. Were they happy to price match it? They're always heaps more expensive.[/QUOTE]

No price match as it was already on special at quite a good price. I did get them to throw a memory card in though! :th3:

[unistudent1962]

Have you thought about a 17-85, it's got IS and USM, these can be had for a good price new and 2nd hand on ebay.

If I were you I'd steer clear of the 17-85.
They can develop a known fault where they hunt for focus and bring up the generic Err01 or Err99 message.
It typically occurs at wider focal lengths with the aperture wide open.
Mine developed the problem 14 months ago.
A trip to Canon service cost me $300 to have it repaired.
The problem is now back again, and I'm not planning on wasting any more money on it.
Canon couldn't care less, so now I'm stuck with a 50-85 f5.6 IS USM manual focus brick!!!!

[peterb666]

I am pretty certain the 18-135mm is sold as a kit lens with some models of Canon. If this is a debundled kit-lens, then the price is plausable for a grey market lens.

The price at DCW will be for the same item when sold as a separate.

I have never heard of eGlobal, but if you can pay by credit card, you shouldn't have any problems as you would be able to get your money back if your lens doesn't turn up. If you have to pay by bank transfer or some other method, I would look for alternative suplliers.

[KeeFy]

Grey market lenses do not have international warranty anymore as of Aug 2010.

Go with a grey market body and buy the mack diamond warranty. It covers international repairs for 3 years and back to the original service center. The price comes close to buying at the best price locally and you get 2 extra years of warranty by Canon/Nikon etc.

[I @ M]

Grey market lenses do not have international warranty anymore as of Aug 2010.



I think that neither Nikon or Canon ever offered any warranty on lenses that were bought from non authorised dealers to start with so I am rather puzzled by what exactly happened in Aug 2010.

[KeeFy]

I think that neither Nikon or Canon ever offered any warranty on lenses that were bought from non authorised dealers to start with so I am rather puzzled by what exactly happened in Aug 2010.

Sorry, I meant Canon grey market lenses. Canon lenses came with international warranty previously so even if you bought grey market lenses, they would be covered under warranty.

Many dealers (and i suspect canon australia would have) must have complained because people buy cheaply from overseas and still enjoy warranty locally. People still do buy grey market lenses and just because the savings is so significant. If i were to buy a 70-200 f2.8 mk2 in Australia vs Singapore/USA. I would be out of the pocket by almost 400 bucks. I'll still buy "grey".

[I @ M]

Keefy, would you care to explain to me exactly what you understand a "grey market" lens to be please.

[KeeFy]

Grey market basically means anything not covered by the local agent. IE: A shop can sell a canon lens locally but still be a grey lens as it was not purcahsed from the distributor, it was imported from another country. The other situation is when a purchaser buys it from overseas and regardless if it's warranted or not, it was not from local distributors.

I beleive that to be the term used internationally as from what i understand, it's used that way in America, UK and Singapore. Is it different here?

[KeeFy]

Grey market basically means anything not distributed by the local agent

Sorry. wrong phrasing.

[I @ M]

Keefy, as I understand it in relation to photographic products any item that is imported into Australia by a retailer outside of the normal distribution channel ( factory - Australian distributor - Australian authorised retailer ) is considered a grey or parallel import.

If you or I as an example purchase a photographic item ( camera, lens or genuine accessory part ) it is not regarded as a grey item, it is purely a purchase made by ourselves from an overseas retailer and does not pass through the hands of the "grey market" retailer in Australia.

Both Nikon and Canon ( Australia ) make it fairly clear in their warranty terms and conditions that they will not be liable for any warranty repairs required to fix a problem with a DSLR body that was not purchased from an authorised Australian dealer. Both companies offer an "international warranty" on their web sites for lenses etc. The wording in their terms and conditions on what exactly the warranty covers are somewhat less clear to me. They seem to suggest that lenses and accessories that are imported into Australia and not sold through an authorised Australian dealer will not be covered by warranty however it seems less clear whether the will offer an international warranty on items imported by you or I directly into Australia ( or purchased overseas while we were on holidays ) from a factory authorised dealer.

On the face of it from their web sites the whole matter is rather a grey area. :D

[KeeFy]

Anyway, the short version. Lenses is only warrantied in the country of purchase now by default bar warranty addons. Canon used to be international, but as of Aug 2010 it no longer is. Unless you pick up a version that comes with the green warranty card and that is really old stock.

I still feel that grey would mean non local distributor stocks regardless of if you purchased it overseas yourself or you got them to ship it to you. It still is considered parallel importing = "grey". Another reason why people call it grey is due to the fact that it draws a clear line for the non local origin and that there will be no local warranty by default. Simple and clear and that's how most people i know understand it to be.

And a quick google shows that distributors follow that as well.
http://www.nikon.com.au/pagearticle.php?pageid=65-52b9b66212
"The warranty card doesn't state "Nikon Australia""

That should be clear as day. Look at other big distributors like B&H, Adorama, Canon australia, Sigma distributor, etc.

[I @ M]

That is the funny thing about the way that both Canon and Nikon word their warranty provisions on their respective web sites ( today ) as in the examples below.

Nikon quite clearly class lenses as "conventional equipment" and their terms say nothing about it having to be an Australian dealer ---

When you purchase any new Nikon Conventional Equipment you automatically receive a Nikon International Warranty for the repair or replacement of your Conventional Equipment in the event of any manufacturing defects for one FULL YEAR from the date of purchase, upon the conditions set out below. -----

Full T&C at http://www.nikon.com.au/pagearticle.php?pageid=307-9afaa3803e

Canon still offer an international warranty according to their T&C but it is a little unclear to me as to whether it applies to lenses being repaired here that are purchased overseas or lenses that are purchased in Australia being repaired overseas while you are travelling. ----

Canon offers an international warranty on non-digital Canon compact cameras, non-digital Canon SLR camera bodies, Canon lenses for all SLR cameras, Canon Speedlites and Canon photographic accessories only. If travelling overseas, the Customer may receive warranty service for those Products on these terms from members of the Canon Camera International Service Network. A list of those members is enclosed with the Product. The Customer must present this warranty card and the original proof of purchase to receive warranty service. -----

Full T&C at http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/Support-Services/Warranty/Warranty-Terms

B&H and Adorama are American based retailers, not distributors. Canon Aus; Nikon Aus; and CR Kennedy are Australian based distributors. Nikon and Canon import items from parent companies, they on sell to retailers in Australia ( & NZ I think ) and CR Kennedy represent a few brands and are very clear about what applies warranty wise for Sigma lenses.

[rjmorgan]

Yea Keefy is right, no matter where/how you bought it if the product has not been originally invoiced by Canon/Nikon/etc in Australia, it is Grey. I wasn't aware of the change with 'grey' lenses no longer being warranted, that's interesting and something I'll have to read up on.

On the Gold Coast we have a local retailer that sells Grey stock, I know a guy who bought a 'Canon EF 28-300mm F3.5-5.6L IS USM' and did save some money, however on closer inspection after he bought it, he noticed that -

a) Serial numbers were scrubbed off both the box and the lens, and
b) the filter thread had been cross threaded and a filter could no longer be screwed on

Luckily he was quite persistent and after a number of quite heated discussions on the phone and in store, he managed to get his money back - they certainly didn't want to...You really do have to wonder what you're getting, where its coming from and sometimes, whether its worth it.

I have bought grey before, but it was a $300 video camera (a couple of years ago) and I did save a few dollars and had no problems. But just wouldnt risk it with SLR gear...

As for the original question - 'Could this 18-135mm really be this cheap'...... The cost price in Aus is roughly $600-$620 inc... So if it is this cheap, where are they sourcing the product??? I really can't see Canon in any part of the world selling it that much cheaper then Canon Australia.... ???? One thing to keep in mind the old addage - if something seems to good to be true, it probably is.

It is plausible that they split a kit - but typically (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't come across this particular kit before), when a body is 'kitted' with a single lens such as the 18-135 it is boxed together, meaning that if they sold off the body seperately how are they packaging these things??

Also, their pricing on the website doesn't make sense....

If you buy the 7D body only - AU$1,465.00
18 - 135 mm lens only - AU$279

Meaning together - AU$1,744

However they have the kit for sale at MORE money - AU$1,759

I know its not alot more, but still.....doesnt really make a lot of sense.

Its a tough decision, because the amount of money you stand to save is considerable, but on the flipside, its a lot of money to lose if it isnt genuine or something wrong with it, etc and then of course you're back at square one.

I wish you the best of luck!

[KeeFy]

http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/store/product.asp?idProduct=2367

These guys usually are reliable on their products and pricing. Just that my opinion is to get the mack warranty with the gear so that you can get it fixed at the local agent. Their RMA service is bad to the core and i suspect that will be the case with any grey products with any other company as well. It's like a car dealership, once you've paid, game over. :P

Cue the mack warranty. It's really pretty good. The only additional hassle is that you need to go through 1 more step of notifying mack about the warranty claim.

Another warning is that people have been caught for items more than $1k and end up paying taxes as well as the companies underdeclare. As most of these companies have been redflagged, sometimes the items do not arrive on time regardless of the real price as they are stuck in customs.

So weigh your options wisely. :)