Considering between Canon 5Dmkii & 7D... HELP!

[carolb]

Morning all,
I know this has been done to death but I’m in desperate need of help! I currently have a 50D and looking to get a second body as I have a few jobs coming up and at this rate buying another body would be more cost effective than renting another body for each job.
I do mostly, weddings, fashion portraits, family portraits and architecture (diverse yes, but I’m an architect by day hence the interest in architecture :)

Now a pro tog friend has recommended that I was for the 5dmkiii (rumoured to be released by the end of the year- but we’ve all heard that for a while! LOL) and either get teh mkii as the price should drop or the mkiii. Problem is I can’t wait that long to get the second body!
He works for a different camera crew and they find that the 7D doesn't meet their needs for early morning shoots or church shoots (they push it up to 3200iso on their 5ds and tested that with the 7D as well)

So my idea was get the 7D for the interim and when the 5D mkiii is released, sell the 50D and purchase that or the mkii instead. 7D was released not too long ago so fingers crossed they’re not releasing a new one already!
And will purchase the 24-70L f/2.8 to go with it. (Would prob purchase this earlier with the 7D if i go the 7d route now)

Help anyone????.....Thanks!!

Carol B

[ElectricImages]

For architecture work, getting good wide angle images will be VERY important. The full frame on the 5DmkII would allow you to get better wide-angle shots with a 24-70 f/2.8. If you get the 5DmkII now, and the 5DmkIII when it comes out, you'll be able to get good wide-angle shots now and use the same lens on both cameras. If you went with the 7D, you'd have to buy a special EF-S lens for wide-angle work, which wouldn't be compatible with the 5DmkIII when it comes out.

Just something to think about...

[Michaela]

Have you considered getting a second hand 5DmkII? I bought mine second hand, as I had just bought a new 7D and wanted to find out what full frame was about without paying the price for a new one. It turns out I love it and now, like you, I'm anticipating the release of the mkIII!

Having said that, I wouldn't swap my 7D for the world - it's my favourite for birding and action. :)

[Dwarak]

Hi

I have both 5d mk2 an the 7d both are good bodies but with a lot of differences. But for the kind of work you do I think the 5d mark 2 will be better because of the full frame you could always use a tilt shift lens which is made specifically for architecture work. The 5d mark 2 I find better performer in low light and the lowest iso in it is 50 the 7d has 100. Then there is the obvious the 21 mp on the 5d mk2 useful for cropping images.

The 7d on the other hand has a better 19 pt auto focussing system an few focussing screens to cheese from. I find it very useful for macro work as you can shift the auto focus points while focussing it's even good for bird photography because of the crop factor 100mm will be 160mm on a 7d. Hope this helps.

[James T]

The 5D mk II is going to be better than the 7D at everything you want it for. And it will still be better next year when the mk III comes out.

I'd buy it now if I needed it, then if you want you can sell the 50D and get the mk III when it arrives.

There have been rumours of a 7D mk II for a while now too.

Reportedly Canon have finally lodged a patent for a 24-70 mk II - so you could wait for that as well. ;)

[agb]

Get the camera which will do the job today and worry about the new one if and when it arrives. It might just not be all that much better, who knows where the digital technology will go.
There is not much point in trying to second guess when and what will be produced.

[carolb]

7D mk II???....Oh goodness! :)

Ah so now the 5Dmkiii is rumoured for release next year?, it does get dragged out everytime i read about it! Haha, but may consider Michaela's suggestion to get a second hand body for the interim.

Yes, if i had purchase the 7D, i would've got the EFS 10-20 as ultimately i'd like a spare crop body for travels, lugging the 580EXII on the 5D for travels doesn't seem as appealing, LOL!!!! Sothe crop with a handy pop-up would be a nice side cam from work as well....if that made any sense??!?!?

[carolb]

oh sorry,

Just realised i'm supposed to post a general reply here!

Thanks for all the replies, truly appreciate it!!

Carol :)

[ameerat42]

I'm glad I don't have your problem, bad enough having to decide without having to factor in rumors.:(

[fabian628]

from my personal uses, if you do not require greater freames/second I would go for the 5d2. The ability to shoot much shallower DoF is a great advanatge of the 35mm sensor. IQ wise 5d2 is better but not that far behind is the 7d. The Af speed on 5d2 is not so fast, but it does a good job if your subject is bigger and not moving so fast.
I like to shoot sports so I could never live with just a 5d2 :P

[ameerat42]

...IQ wise 5d2 is better but not that far behind is the 7d...
Hey Fabian. Care to elucidate?
Ummm...

[fabian628]

Hey Fabian. Care to elucidate?
Ummm...

at the higher iso I feel the 5d2 keeps detail better

[dulvariprestige]

I had both the 7d and 5d classic, one thing I notice between the two was the detail of the shots from the 5d were much better, the 7d seem to have a little better dynamic range, but the sharpness and clarity was certainly better from the 5d, so I imagine the MKII would be as good if not better.
Seeing you already have a descent crop sensor camera in the 50d, I'd be leaning toward the 5d, it just seems to suit your needs better than the 7.

[fabian628]

I had both the 7d and 5d classic, one thing I notice between the two was the detail of the shots from the 5d were much better, the 7d seem to have a little better dynamic range, but the sharpness and clarity was certainly better from the 5d, so I imagine the MKII would be as good if not better.
Seeing you already have a descent crop sensor camera in the 50d, I'd be leaning toward the 5d, it just seems to suit your needs better than the 7.

lower MP's will usually be favourable in hiding problems with lenses. If you shoot average glass with 7D it will resolve all the issues with the lens also :p
21MP 5d2 resolves small CA's on the 300 2.8 when I never saw any with the 1d3 which is 10mp

[ausguitarman]

I started off with a 50D and was never happy with it's high iso performance. I'll happily ramp the 5DMKII up to 6400 (with no flash as I prefer natural lighting however low it is) and have no issues with IQ.

[acko]

OK...so now I am a bit confused having read all of this. I have a 40D and intend to upgrade to a 5D MK2 before 30th June (tax claim you see). I was under the impression that my Canon L series lenses would be ideal in the full frame camera (as well as the 40D).
Comments?

[James T]

OK...so now I am a bit confused having read all of this. I have a 40D and intend to upgrade to a 5D MK2 before 30th June (tax claim you see). I was under the impression that my Canon L series lenses would be ideal in the full frame camera (as well as the 40D).
Comments?

They will, I don't think anyone's debating that. You can't do much more than to buy the best glass available anyway.

That said, they are upgrading / have recently upgraded most of the popular L-series lenses.. no doubt at least partly due to the higher pixel density of current and upcoming cameras.

[carolb]

I started off with a 50D and was never happy with it's high iso performance. I'll happily ramp the 5DMKII up to 6400 (with no flash as I prefer natural lighting however low it is) and have no issues with IQ.

True! I prefer low light as well and it's painful to see a good shot ruined by too much noise, but do you take your 5DmkII for extensive travels?

[carolb]

I'm glad I don't have your problem, bad enough having to decide without having to factor in rumors.:(

LOL! yes, all these rumours are doing my head in! :o

[carolb]

from my personal uses, if you do not require greater freames/second I would go for the 5d2. The ability to shoot much shallower DoF is a great advanatge of the 35mm sensor. IQ wise 5d2 is better but not that far behind is the 7d. The Af speed on 5d2 is not so fast, but it does a good job if your subject is bigger and not moving so fast.
I like to shoot sports so I could never live with just a 5d2 :P

Thanks! At the moment the 5Dmkii or 7D would be another body for upcoming wedding shoots, or rather the 50D will be the second body then, LOL!

Sounds like it's the 5D mkII for me?...like Aco, would prob get it in time for the financial year tax?....Canon better not release mk III int he coming months!!!...:( hahaha

[Gremlin]

does the 5d have the remote flash speedlite controller the 7d does?
with lens, efs lens wont work in the 5d so i bought ef lens and two aftermarlet tamron and sigma lens if i went 5d so i wouldnt have to worry about it.

[James T]

does the 5d have the remote flash speedlite controller the 7d does?
with lens, efs lens wont work in the 5d so i bought ef lens and two aftermarlet tamron and sigma lens if i went 5d so i wouldnt have to worry about it.

No, the 5D doesn't have a built in flash. So you need a trigger system or a 580 flash to act as a master. Re. Lenses, that's fine as long as the Sigma and Tamron were also designed for full frame.

[Doninoz]

Just a couple of small points to add as most people have said it all. If you think you might do some movies as well the 7D does 24bit HD whilst the 5DMkII doesn't. When I was deciding just like you I vacillated between the 7D and the 5D MkII. What won me over is full frame, lower and higher ISO and the fact that the higher the ISO the worse the 7D got. At about 1600 the 7D had a lot more noise which was unacceptable.

The other interesting point is that you can't take any rumour for gospel regarding Canon's release times. No one has EVER guessed correctly and I think that is because Canon only releases when it thinks it has new products exactly where it wants them...not by date but by design!

That said, Canon has indicated that it will add the same sensor into the next 5D MkIII as now exists in the 7D as well as adding 24bit HD movie function. That's all we know. Canon is working with movie production houses who have asked Canon to add in various options so if you look at what they are asking, you get a far idea the way Canon may move.

Another thing I would say is buy L series lens. If you buy EF-S, I guarantee you will be sorry. They are slow and noisy and just a little inferior in output. I personally don't think they handle higher ISO as well either. Prime lens are always best because fixed prisms are always sharper and clearer. Since they don't have a lot of moving parts like zooms, the glass inside of a prime lens is very precise. For weddings I always use Lprimes...50mm 1:1.2L, 85mm 1:1.8 and 300 1:2.8L.

If money is a consideration and you mainly do weddings I would actually go the 7d and spend the money on better lens...but who am I who went for the 5D MkII to advise you that way. Good luck and let us know what you do decide. Regards Don

[ameerat42]

Doninoz. Both the 7D and 5D-II have the same movie format H.264 (from DPReview specs, and I must assume both are AVCHD). If I'm wrong, apologies, otherwise, what point are you making? The statement would need expanding no matter what.
Am.

[unistudent1962]

Canon has indicated that it will add the same sensor into the next 5D MkIII as now exists in the 7D as well as adding 24bit HD movie function.

How can that be the case when the 7D sensor is APS-C and the 5D is full frame?

[ausguitarman]

True! I prefer low light as well and it's painful to see a good shot ruined by too much noise, but do you take your 5DmkII for extensive travels?

Just about to go away at long last and the bag is packed with the 5D MKII - 24-105L - 70-200 F4L IS - 70-300 IS USM - 28 1.8 - 50 1.4 - 100L Macro. I usually travel light with just the 5D MKII - 24-105L - 70-300 IS USM - 50 1.4 as this covers a fair bit of ground so to speak.

I took my G12 away a while back as it was a really short trip and I thought I'd give it a go. Day shots were great but the night shots were a let down.

Looking for a small bag that will take the 5DMKII and two lenses at the moment as I'll take it with me everywhere from now on. Just need a small bag as if I pull out the backpack I jam it full.

[Doninoz]

How can that be the case when the 7D sensor is APS-C and the 5D is full frame?

Oops! It's amazing how a missing word can change the whole context of a sentence...that word 'features'. So sorry for misleading and for the delay in posting the correction...

The sentence should have read..."That said, Canon has indicated that it will add the same sensor features (including processing features) into the next 5D MkIII as now exists in the 7D as well as adding corrected 24/25bit HD movie function."

To add to that, they will include the 19 point autofocus feature (19 cross type focusing points gives wider coverage of AF points through the image area - vs 5DII with one cross type sensor and the rest of the points are inconveniently more clustered around the center area),

Another addition will be a new full frame sensor that has a higher pixel density that now exists in the 7D.

They will also include Video Recording 1280x720 (HD) 60p/50p and a bitrate of 48 mb/s (5D MKII only shoots at 41) which gives the 7D great slow motion ability.

Other features they suggest will be added are 8 frames per second (7D got it...5DMKII only got 3.9fpc).

Since updating the firmware to address the issues with 24/25p some 5DMKII's have become quite buggy. A lot of photographers who want to use this camera for filming have asked Canon to fix this (25p (Frames Per second) has a more film like motion with a 1/50 shutter, 30p looks more videoish).

A few other things that the 7D has over the 5DMKII are...

- AI Servo AF can be fine tuned (and probably _has to_ be fine tuned to serve individual preferences).

- 7D has several AF point grouping methods and spot focus possibility.

- 7D can control external speedlites with the built-in flash (although this may be a moot argument as the 5DMKII doesn't have an inbuilt flash and most people buying the 5D would also buy a Canon dedicated flash system which has infinately more capabilities).

That said, I agree with other comments elsewhere on AP that mentioned they miss the pop-up flash of the lower end cameras and bemoan the lugging around of the heavy 580 EXII. I have to agree and would like Canon to consider adding a built in flash to the next 5D generation just for those moments.

- 7D has dual axis electronic level, convenient for architectural photography, ultrawide and fishey photography (and shooting test targets…).

- 7D has custom button functions that are not included on the 5DMKII.

Trying to compare the 7D to the 5DMKII is not like comparing apples to apples because they are different cameras and I chose the 5DMKII because I am predominately a still photographer and the 5DMKII won out for me, especially for its better low light capabilities. But I have started taking movies at weddings and find the quality far higher than my HD video camera except that I can't yet trust it to do a complete filming without something going wrong (i.e.shudder and flicker). Canon have told me I'll just have to wait for another firmware upgrade!

There is however, an area of photography where the 7D will still maintain the edge. If you need a lens longer than your longest telephoto — as is common with birders — such that you’ll be cropping your image anyway, then the higher pixel density of the 7D will be an advantage. But even better quality could be had by getting a longer lens (if one exists and / or costs less than a car and / or could be lifted by mere mortals) and mounting it to the 5DII.

Hope this helps...regards Don

[Doninoz]

Doninoz. Both the 7D and 5D-II have the same movie format H.264 (from DPReview specs, and I must assume both are AVCHD). If I'm wrong, apologies, otherwise, what point are you making? The statement would need expanding no matter what.
Am.

AM, Hope I explained it in the last post today. Sorry for the confusion, but being in a rush and not taking notices of what you are writing (I knew what was in my mind but didn't relate it correctly) means confusion. Some of the movies companies that are using the 5DMKII for filming have written their own firmware fixes for the bugs that exist at the moment. I wonder why Canon can't do the same. As said in my post, I am frustrated that I can't fix my problem and have to wait for a new firmware release! I'm not an expert on this technology but tried to go into it deeply before outlaying a large sum of money and I did have in mind that I would like to use it for filming movies as well sometime.

Another point I don't think has been made is that if you move from a 1.6x sensor camera you have to use dedicated lenses...EF-S lens won't fit as won't some 3rd party lens and even if they do there may be some vignetting effects with them. So if someone is looking at upgrading and has a lot of EF-S lens they will have to change their lens as well. If I was in that situation, I would have gone with the 7D without hesitation. Regards Don

[fabian628]

I dont think there will be a 5d with 8 fps. Canon will make you pay for a second camera with high frames/second as they have in the past. ;)

[twister]

For architecture probably the 5DII would come to mind, but the UWA lenses for FSS (16-35/2.8 and 17-40/4) have horrible border sharpness...

A 7D can do well for WA as well with the 10-22mm...

[ElectricImages]

The sentence should have read..."That said, Canon has indicated that it will add the same sensor features (including processing features) into the next 5D MkIII as now exists in the 7D as well as adding corrected 24/25bit HD movie function."

Uh... this is still badly wrong. There is no such thing as "24/25-bit" HD. What you're probably attempting to refer to is the frame rate - 24 or 25 FRAMES PER SECOND - during shooting. A recent firmware upgrade to the 5D Mark II provided it with native 24 and 25 FPS capability, for shooting cinematic film or digital video respectively, replacing the old 30 FPS framerate that came with the 5D Mark II when it was originally released. You refer to this update as having "bugs", but I have been shooting with it for half a year without noticing any issues, as well as with the Magic Lantern v.5.x firmware mod.

The 7D does still have one framerate beyond the 5D Mark II - a 60fps mode, which allows the 7D to record "slow motion" video (by capturing at 60fps and replaying at 24 fps). However the codec is the same in both bodies: H.264-encoded MOV files (NOT AVCHD). The rest of the commentary on a "possible" 5D Mark II is highly speculative and I will not counter-speculate.