New Release, Sigma SD1, 46mp, DSLR, June 2011.

[colinbm]

Sigma has announced the impending release of the Sigma SD1, 46 mp, DSLR for June 2011 in Germany, to coincide with Sigma's 50th Anniversary Celebrations.
Price TBA.

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/50-years-of-sigma

Unfortunately you need a USA address to enter this competition :(

Cheers
Col

[I @ M]

It will be very interesting to see this one hit the streets and to be reviewed fairly as I reckon it should work very well with some of Sigma's best lenses.
Even more interesting will be the price it sells at, they are going to have to price the body in a similar fashion as they price their lenses against the "other" manufacturers.

[PJAD]

Would be nice too if it has a removable hot mirror like the SD14 & 15.

[colinbm]

Would be nice too if it has a removable hot mirror like the SD14 & 15.

It does :cool:
Col

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
Where do you get your Sigma gear from?

[colinbm]

Hi PJAD
Sigma cams & SA mount lenses are scarce on the ground in Australia :-(
USA don't want to send to Aust !
I recently purchased my Sigma SD15 & 18-200, new from Germany & DP2 from Nederlands at reasonable prices.
With the imminent release of the SD1, the SD15 is coming down in price now.
Cheers
Col

[ameerat42]

BTW Pjad.
Sigma gear can be ordered through DigiDirect down near circular quay (from memory lane). It's on-line AND a walk-in shop, though I haven't walked in.
(I thought they were a site sponsor here but I can't seem to find them???)
Am.

[PJAD]

Hi Col, Am,
Thank you for the info on suppliers, I'll keep them in mind. So far for Sigma lenses I've been using DCW since they are reasonably local.
Col, was it straightforward to get gear from Germany?

Regards,
Peter

[colinbm]

Hi Don
Do DCW have SA mount lenses ??

Germany, was very straight forward, just like anywhere :rolleyes:
Language is but a small problem. Google translate is your friend ;) Just highlight the text & right click in IE8.
They understand english, ($ is the universal language) but sometimes like to show off in their own :o
Cheers
Col

[colinbm]

BTW Pjad.
Sigma gear can be ordered through DigiDirect down near circular quay (from memory lane). It's on-line AND a walk-in shop, though I haven't walked in.
(I thought they were a site sponsor here but I can't seem to find them???)
Am.

AM,
Do they have Sigma SA mount lenses ?
Col

[ameerat42]

I don't know if they'd have them in stock, Col, but they can order them. Here is their site. (http://www.digidirect.com.au/) They are advertising and SD15 with 18-50 lens for some 1600 at present. (It was 1900 with a 17-70 lens b4 Xmas.)
You know you're in Australia when you get vague responses about Sigma gear.
Am.;)

[PJAD]

Col, Am,
What is "SA" mount, so I'm clear on it? Just checked out their site (DCW) and it appears that the only mounts they carry now are for everyone else except Sigma itself, which is weird.

Regards,
Peter

[colinbm]

Hi Peter
The SA mount is Sigma lens mount.
Sigma sell excellent lenses for most cameras. It just harder to find Sigma SA mount lenses in Australia :-(
Cheers
Col

[ameerat42]

It is the Sigma body lens mount. Now just recently someone wrote (somewhere) that it is the same as a Pentax (I think -K) mount.
O-hh! Here's where (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_SA_mount) I read it.
About 2/3 way through this Wiki paragraph...
Am.

Pentax K mount (PK) lenses can be fitted straight onto the SA mount, after the protruding AA lever and AA protector outcrop are removed, though the fit is slightly loose as the SA mount has a slightly bigger bore than the PK mount.

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
That's what I thought it was, just had to be sure. It bugs me that not everything Sigma is readily here like it used to be. Not sure if I would venture out and try the Pentax mount, it does have to fit perfectly.
Peter

[colinbm]

Am, are the Pentax lenses compatible electronically with Sigma SA lens mounts ?
Col

[colinbm]

Hi Col,
That's what I thought it was, just had to be sure. It bugs me that not everything Sigma is readily here like it used to be. Not sure if I would venture out and try the Pentax mount, it does have to fit perfectly.
Peter

Yes I feel the same way too.
Hacking a perfectly good lens is not my scene, especially making it into a manual operated lens as well :o
Col

[ameerat42]

Really don't know, Col. I agree about the "hacking" part. I have an old K-mount lens somewhere, w/o a Pentax, so one of these days...
Am.

[PJAD]

There was a time years ago I would have probably done the hack thing, the nature of curiosity I suppose. These days I just want stuff to work the way it should, out of the box, unmodified, no hacking.

Peter

[colinbm]

Yes, I suppose it comes with age :rolleyes: wisdom I think it is called :confused013

What camera do you have Peter. Are you looking at going for Sigma ?
Col

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
Currently my base is Nikon, since I do a lot of macro the Nikon gear suits me just fine. I have had an interest in Sigma for a while, since it is a different sensor design having no AA filter and no interpolation like the Bayer CFA style. I am considering getting a Sigma sometime and may just do that when the SD1 comes out. I like the idea of the removable hot mirror for infrared shots, and this is another one of the keys points why I am interested in the Sigma. I think they do pretty good gear despite the ramblings of majority that use CFA sensors. I'm half tempted to get a DP2 anyway, just as a nice compact light unit.

Peter

[colinbm]

Hi Peter
There is an adapter for Nikon mount, but no electical contact, so will be manual control.
http://www.jtat.com/sd/sd_main/SD_Nikon.html
I have a DP2 that i am looking at converting to IR, not too difficult.
Cheers
Col

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
What's involved in the DP2 IR conversion? It's generally not difficult with most cameras, but some can be fiddly.
Regards
Peter

[colinbm]

Hi Peter
The hot mirror is between the sensor & lens unit. It is on its own metal mount. Most remove the hot mirror from the mount, which breaks the glass. I am hoping that the glass can be removed by solvents or heat ?? Firstly I will see what it will takes to make a replacement mount. I am told that they don't use a clear glass in place of the hot mirror.
I have also just found out that the sensor has another weaker hot mirror bonded to its surface, which is not removable. This is the case with the DP & SD cameras, they all have the same sensor.
Cheers
Col

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
Would be nice if manufacturers of small cameras (i.e. < medium format) had a hot mirror option, I would certainly buy one without. I think one of the older Fuji models, maybe the S5, has the hot mirror bonded to the metal mount and sensor. A few years ago I almost had a Fuji IS-Pro, the factory IR version of the S5.
Also, a lot of manufacturers place a hot mirror over the AF sensor as well which further complicates things and leads to back/front focus in IR AF. Nothing is simple, is it. It's nice that companies like Phase One will manufacture a special run of cameras given enough demand. I think recently (like last year) they did a monochrome sensor run.
Regards,
Peter

[colinbm]

Yes Peter, I have heard of these cameras.
While looking at the options for a IR capable camera with high IQ, I was at a toss-up with MaxMax & Sigma.
Sigma won, but I am yet to get the IR shots I want :o But I do have a very nice camera just the same.
I am struggling with the settings of DSLR manual control :o
I had Canons S2 & S5 IS converted cams before & got good results in Auto & Jpeg.
Sigma & DSLR has been a vertical learning curve for me :eek:

About the MaxMax cameras
XNiteCanon500D-NCG: Canon 500D 15.1 Megapixel Color UV-VIS-IR No Cover Glass $1,800.00
http://www.maxmax.com/canon_500d_(t1i).htm

Cheers
Col

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
I think MaxMax does a lot of neat stuff, compared to say LifePixel whose site seems to be slow to update. I had in mind to send my Nikon D700 to MaxMax for a UV-VIS-IR conversion but just cannot bring myself to do it yet. I looked at both those sites a few years ago and wondered why there is not a local business doing that kind of stuff here. I know Khromagery, in Vic I think, were doing conversions but they have ceased. So, I'm hanging out to see how the Sigma goes. If it proves itself in IR then I'll stick with that.
Do you find you have to do a lot of post processing with the Sigma IR images?
Regards,
Peter

[colinbm]

Hi Peter
MaxMax do the UV-VIS-IR conversion by removing the hot mirror & Bayer array micro-lenses, green, red, blue.
I don't know why they can't buy 'naked sensors' ?

This lady has used the Sigma SD & DP cameras to do these wonderful shots, full colour & IR. Beware there are 39 pages of thumbnails :eek:
http://flickrhivemind.net/User/Seng%20%20Merrill/Interesting
Cheers
Col

[ameerat42]

Col, Peter.
Re IR, take up his offer. (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=38437796)
Am.

[colinbm]

Been there, done that :th3:
Col

[ameerat42]

:DNot that I mind, but this thread is becoming the default Sigma forum on AP:D

[PJAD]

Hi Am, Col,
Thanks for the links, good photos, eh. I used to do a lot of electronics and hardware hacking, so taking a camera apart is no big deal and I might just do that with an SD2 if/when I get one. I'm doing a part time uni course at the moment and this semester finishes end of May, after that I'll spend more time on investigating this.
Col, yeah, would be nice if MaxMax were able to get raw sensors. Actually would be nice if the sensor was on its own board that could be swapped in/out just like a CF card. Maybe one day.
Regards,
Peter

[colinbm]

Yes Am it has grown a bit, glad we have Peter's interest too :-)

Yes Peter, Seng is a terrific photographer & gets nice IR results.

This is what I am aiming for :th3:
Practice, practice...............
Col

[PJAD]

Hi Col,
He certainly does nice pics. Just need the right amount of light, good filters, and good scenery. One thing I'd like to do is portraits in IR. I did a couple once of a friend just to try out and see what results I get, skin tones come out like porcelain, really smooth. Wedding photos in IR look real cool too. What I found generally is IR makes colour boring, unless it's a mixture. I think Am made a good point before, we should have a Sigma IR column.
Peter

[colinbm]

Hi Col,
He certainly does nice pics. Just need the right amount of light, good filters, and good scenery. One thing I'd like to do is portraits in IR. I did a couple once of a friend just to try out and see what results I get, skin tones come out like porcelain, really smooth. Wedding photos in IR look real cool too. What I found generally is IR makes colour boring, unless it's a mixture. I think Am made a good point before, we should have a Sigma IR column.
Peter

Seng, is a lady :)
Yes skin is interesting, Asiatics skin comes out very nice, pinkies like me are very ghostly :eek:
The IR reflects from just below the surface of the skin, therefore the imperfections on the surface like wrinkles, pimples, freckles etc are not there.

Ok, when we have something to start a new thread on regarding Sigma & / or InfraRed, feel free to do that.

Cheers
Col

[PJAD]

Am, Col
In a nutshell, would you know the diff between the DP2, DP2s, and DP2x? I could spend time looking it up, but your words would be quicker.

Peter

[colinbm]

Basically just updates to the program, hardware is nearly the same.
The DP1's are wide at 16mm or 28mm equivalent.
The DP2's are normal at 28mm or 41mm equivalent.
They all have the same sensor & processor as the SD15 DSLR.

I just put this together yesterday.
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sigma_dp1&products=sigma_dp1s&products=sigma_dp1x&products=sigma_dp2&products=sigma_dp2s&products=sigma_dp2x&sortDir=ascending

Cheers
Col

[colinbm]

It has been announced, by DP Review.
Sigma announces SD1 pricing and availability

Cameras will be available from the end of June at a price of $US9,700 and £6,199.99 (inc VAT) in the UK.
This must be one very good camera !
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1105/11052010sigmasd1.asp

I can see a lot of long faces in Sigma Fan Land tonight :eek:
It must be good, too good for us lot !
We can now dream of a DP EVIL :th3:
Col

[I @ M]

They must have misprinted that surely!!!!!

Considering that you can buy a tried and proven Nikon D3x for less at Australian retail levels or the slightly inferior Pentax 645D :p for a little bit more they surely don't anticipate selling many do they?

Forget that, give em 6 months and they will be selling em on ebay for $3,000.00 drive away, no more to pay.

[Tommo1965]

46 megapixels!! I was amazed to read it was a crop sensor..thats certainly a lot of pixel density ....I thought noise became more of a issue the tighter the pixels are packed in?

[I @ M]

Tommo, the megapickle arguments will always rage with the particular sensor design ( Foveon ) that Sigma use.
Basically the way to look at this particular one is to look at the sensor dimensions ( 23.5x15.7mm ) which is pretty well in line with most APSC sensor sizes as a 3:2 ratio or 1.5 crop of 35mm frame format.
Then look at the total number of pixels ( horizontal x vertical ) in the sensor ( 4,800×3,200 ) and then multiply the two to get the number of megapickles that the sensor actually has.
This gives you a bit under 16 megapickles under the way that every most other manufacturers quote their cameras as. The difference with the Sigma sensor is that they claim each photosite on the sensor measures colour channels separately ( RGB ) so therefore you must multiply the total megapickle count x 3 giving somewhere around 46 megapickles.
The actual pixel density of that sensor is really no more than the current class leading Pentax / Nikon designed by Sony sensor in the K5 / D7000 but it it simply interprets things differently.

Yes, the sensor and design do work well, but do they work 3 times as well as the rest both price and performance wise?

Only time and the market place will provide that answer.

Sadly I think it will be a rather resounding no on the price issue alone.

Edit --- I really would be quite happy to be proven wrong on the acceptance of the Sigma in the market place, maybe it will be the silver bullet but going on the past models that have failed to set the world on fire I really can't see much more than a soggy match head with this one. Please prove me wrong Mr. Sigma.

[ameerat42]

Helloooooo SD15.

[colinbm]

Hi Tommo1965 & all interested listers
The Sigma Foveon digital sensor chip is different to the Bayer Array chips.
Sigma Foveon measures the light colour at different levels of penetration of the silicone chip.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor
So the new SD1 actually has over 15mp on the surface of the chip, the chip is measuring the light depth at 3 levels.
This is how the 46mp are arrived at. Each pixel is measuring all the light that fall onto its surface.
The Bayer Array uses 4 pixels to measure the light signal, 2 for green, 1 for blue & 1 for red.
This where the arguments & confusion are generated from.
So on the surface of it, we have Foveon times 3 pixels & Bayer divided by 4 pixels.
http://www.foveon.com/article.php?a=67

Cheers
Col

[PJAD]

Depends on an individuals definition of pixel as well, a pixel is a picture element. Remember the Fuji S5; the 6mp sensor had two photosites per Bayer location but the camera was advertised as 12mp. The images were 12mp after interpolation of the 6mp data, but many thought the sensor was 12mp. The discussions of pixels and sensors should really be quite simple, whether it's Foveon or CFA, people get confused because they don't do the math themselves and don't quite understand what the sensor is doing.

SD1 @ US$9700, well, I'll just have to settle for a SD15 or DP2.

Regards,
Peter

[ameerat42]

That's a reasonable rule of thumb for trying to make a comparison, Col. (The 3/4 analogy, even though opto-electronics is rather more abstruse a pursuit.)
And Peter, much of the angst comes from a desire to understand by comparing with what's "familiar". (Though I don't know just how familiar Bayer pixology is.)

When I got the DP1 I thought, Oh, this quirky thing! (Understand I could say this because it was a gift.) Two shots of jpegs didn't shift me much, but then I loaded the raw converter and began processing raws. I was instantly happy with what I saw and that was good enough.

Actually, if Sigma did make a lightweight EVIL version using that sensor it would be nothing to sneeze @, as long as it didn't have such a whooping cough of a price.
Am.

[I @ M]

From a quick look on the net this arvo there seems to be some confusion as to whether the price that has been advertised is actually correct seeing as they now have kit prices including an 85mm F/1.4 lens at about $1800 LESS than the body price. :eek: :confused013

Sample images look pretty good (http://www.sigma-sd.com/SD1/sample-photo/index.html), about the same as you would expect from a any current camera and quality glass in the upper ranges of price.

[colinbm]

Thanks Andrew,
I guess the MRSP is always high & allows a discount to street price. In this case the %'s amount to a lot of $$.

I have seen a comment that the camera cartel or mafia (who ever they could be ?) has put some pressure on Sigma, not to upset the status quo & on a promise to bring about a court action regarding reverse engineering of lens technology :eek:

I guess when you have a very good Image Quality now (SD15) & you make an improvement (above the rest), it could be valuable to someone :confused013

Cheers
Col

[I @ M]

I have seen a comment that the camera cartel or mafia (who ever they could be ?) has put some pressure on Sigma, not to upset the status quo & on a promise to bring about a court action regarding reverse engineering of lens technology :eek:



That sounds a little airy fairy, after all the entire mainstream camera industry is Japanese based and when all is said and done they, like so many other Japanese corporate behemoths, have only ever prospered first by copying / duplicating products and then when they owned the market place by refining them. Think cars, motor bikes and household appliances, first they borrowed or bought designs and copied them and over time started designing products that were superior to the original but still relied on the same principles. I don't think that Sigma, Tamron or Tokina as 3rd party lens manufacturers will really be sweating much, they will still keep reverse engineering products and working their way around what some might cynically say are baulking attempts by the OEM companies when they introduce firmware updates to their products.






I guess when you have a very good Image Quality now (SD15) & you make an improvement (above the rest), it could be valuable to someone :confused013



Nobody is doubting that they have a product that produces very good images but the key word is valuable and in reality I don't see anything in the images presented by them on the web ( surely they would pick and choose the absolute best ones that they could just as every other manufacturer does to showcase a new product ) that makes them stand out from anything else available today in a similar or cheaper price range.

Rather unfortunate and telling is their advertising blurb that states that their camera will produce noiseless images at 6400 ISO yet the sample images are all at ISO 100 apart from a couple at ISO 200. :rolleyes:

[colinbm]

A lot of Sigma fans are up-in-arms about the price. Sigma have long told us, & as late as February this year that the SD1 will be priced similarly to the Canon 7D ?
Col

[ameerat42]

Fokes. I can't get to the samples link above. It just continually sits "loading". ???????

[colinbm]

Fokes. I can't get to the samples link above. It just continually sits "loading". ???????

Yep, I guess it's just overloaded :confused013
This is a very exciting release & the world has just beaten a path to their doorstep. You will just have to wait your turn.
Col

[ameerat42]

Just been looking @ some of the pics I downloaded. Pity the thing is so expensive. Even the 15 MPx sizes look OK.
Hmm! Enuff. Will hit the sack and 4-get about it.

[colinbm]

Glad you are impressed, I haven't looked yet, too long to load. I will wait for the rush to clear & see what some common users get, if a common user can afford one :confused013
How 'bout the lucky person in the US of A that wins one in the comp :eek:
Col

[ameerat42]

I found this somewhat interesting (if ultimately futile) dissertation (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/rationalizing_the_irrational.shtml) referred to in a post on the DPR Sigma forum. Apart from a couple of spelling miskates it provided a bit of lobster bolster.
Am.

[JM Tran]

from dpreview.com

Part of conversation in the meeting where they set the price:
"Ok, come to order. We now have a date for release of the SD-1"
(Wild applause for 3 seconds)

Yamaki (CEO): "As you all know, I have said that the price will be in the 7D segment. However, the yield of the sensor production is so low, that we can't sell it at that price. We need to have at least 5000 USD for us for each unit."
(Silence)
"Anyone have a suggestion to save my face?"
(Even deeper silence)
Marketing: "We redefine it as a MF competitor!"
(Laughter, and more laughter.)

Someone: "Come on, how can we sell it as a MF competitor. Its a 1.5 crop, for crying out load. Have you ever looked in the viewfinder of a MF"
"No. I have never seen a MF."

Marketing: "I have another idea. Lets keep the price of the camera, so the COE does not loose face. But the SW we provide, the SPP, we have not made any promises about, right? We just set the suggested price of that to 8000 USD."
(Silence)
"You mean Camera + SW for 8000 USD?"
"No! Camera 2000 USD + SW 8000 USD. 10 grand. Thats a round and nice figure."
(Longer silence)

"People do not need Photoshop with our cameras, so why not move the cost over to our SW instead."

Yamaki: "Yes, lets do that. But keep that information a secret until I tell. Use the MF idea publically"
"What about the installed base. Will they not be very disappointed?"

"No, no, you do not understand their mentality. They are real fans. They will defend us with their lives. They will gladly sell their cars and homes to get this model - at any cost. Even if they not need it. "

"But we cannot offer a PRO-Service like the others. And they will have to send the unit here for repair."
"Thats not a big deal. You just have to make sure they buy 2 units each."
"But..."
"No more buts please"
And thats how the price was set. emoticon - smile



Another hit and miss by Sigma IMO:)

[ameerat42]

Yes, unfortunately true. I'm not even going to qualify it with "seems".
Am.

[colinbm]

JM Tran
This is just a fairy tale, a poor joke.

Very few insiders will know the true story about THE price.
THE price is probably not realisable, except for a few who appreciate the results & need that.
We have to wait for the waters to calm, before we can venture across this watershed.
Col

[Tommo1965]

theres a preview of the SD1 up on the DPR website. after reading that and looking at the camera body, the controls and the price/available lenses.....IMHO...if that body doesn't produce the best images anyone has ever seen..they will be hard pushed to sell any of them ..

[Othrelos]

for that price you would be better off buying a Leica M9, and a Summilux 50mm f/1.4 or a Pentax 645D which has a substantially bigger sensor, and better lenses and a bigger and brighter viewfinder. From what I have seen Foveon sensors have weak blues, I used one in a studio a few years back and the Foveon X3 sensor didn't handle mixed light sources very well at all. I surmise it is because of the way silicon absorbs light, but the X3 sensor didn't like me mixing continuous tungsten light with Flash at all.

[colinbm]

Until someone gets one in their hands for a review, we have to wait for the verdict.
Cheers
Col

[swifty]

Body's listed at $6900 now.
Who discounts their flagship by almost 30% b4 it's even hit the stores.
Epic fail to the marketing department IMO. They either stick to their guns and the claimed exceptional IQ by releasing it at the original price, or not announce it at such a high price in the first place.
I suppose in marketing any news is good news but if the IQ doesn't live up to the hype then the SD1 would be remembered for all the wrong reasons.
Fingers crossed that the Fovean sensor delivers the goods. Pushing the tech boundaries is always good.

[I @ M]

Body's listed at $6900 now.
Who discounts their flagship by almost 30% b4 it's even hit the stores.
Epic fail to the marketing department IMO. They either stick to their guns and the claimed exceptional IQ by releasing it at the original price, or not announce it at such a high price in the first place.
I suppose in marketing any news is good news but if the IQ doesn't live up to the hype then the SD1 would be remembered for all the wrong reasons.
Fingers crossed that the Fovean sensor delivers the goods. Pushing the tech boundaries is always good.

Nope, the body is still listed as $9,700.00 MSRP (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/sd1-dslr-sigma) on Sigma's site, it is listed at B&H at under 7K so it is a retailer discounting it, not Sigma, just the same way as most retailers in Australia end up selling bodies at under the manufacturers recommended retail price.

[swifty]

Nope, the body is still listed as $9,700.00 MSRP (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/sd1-dslr-sigma) on Sigma's site, it is listed at B&H at under 7K so it is a retailer discounting it, not Sigma, just the same way as most retailers in Australia end up selling bodies at under the manufacturers recommended retail price.

Having your retailer's MAP almost 30% lower at launch's not much better.
Bhphoto arn't gonna sell at a lost and the profit margins arn't that high meaning Sigma's selling to retailers at prices much lower than their MSRP. Meaning they never expected to sell anywhere near their MSRP.
On their own website, SD1 kits + 85mm f1.4 sells for $7819 for example.
I dunno what mesg they're trying to send but the one I got is either they don't have any confidence in their product or someone completely fumbled their launch.

Note: i'm only talking about the marketing and not the actual product, which I'm sure will be great in it's own right. It just doesn't need this debacle.

[I @ M]

It just doesn't need this debacle.

Totally agree.

The 9.7k price on the Sigma site came and went and came back again over a few days and the kit prices that reflected such lower individual item prices have caused a few raised eyebrows.
In the past I have seen reports that camera retailers in the good old USA have an agreement with Canon, Nikon, Pentax etc not to show prices on their sites under the makers retail prices but get around it by having a "click here to see price" or an "add to basket to see price" page on their websites. It all smacks of collusion, smoke and mirrors and cartels but that is "free enterprise" over there and maybe Sigma really don't care about that side of things.
If you look at any of their lenses on the Sigma web site and then compare the prices with what the big retailers are selling them you will see a very different street price.

Seeing as this product launch has generated a fair bit of interest around the globe, the continued discussion and chatter on forums like this one is either ---

#1 An advertising masterpiece

or

#2 As you said, an absolutely fumbled launch. :D

[colinbm]

Sigma has been sued by Nikon
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/nikon-idINL3E7GP11H20110525
see my new thread
Col

[swifty]

Seeing as this product launch has generated a fair bit of interest around the globe, the continued discussion and chatter on forums like this one is either ---

#1 An advertising masterpiece

or

#2 As you said, an absolutely fumbled launch. :D

Haha.. yep agree. If IQ excels, then I'll be eating my words.
"we've got $10k standard IQ but we're gonna give it to you for $7k !!"

[foryou]

very nice but not cheap

[I @ M]

It will be very interesting to see this one hit the streets and to be reviewed fairly --------

And an interesting review it is, I reckon that it has been fairly compared to current cameras by Luminous Landscapes (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_sd1_review.shtml).