Career as a full time photographer in Australia? [Archive] - AusPhotography:: Australia's Premier Photography Forum::

Will Zhao

09-01-2011, 8:28pm

Hello fellow Ap'ers!

Let's begin with my background, I grew up in China and am currently studying in a local high school in Melbourne. I'm looking forward to study photography in college and I wish to become a full time photographer in Australia.

First things first, I know little of Australia's photography culture and people's attitude towards it, I wish to become a wedding photographer but I am unsure of its demand and whether or not it will provide enough income to support my family.

Ok, I understand it relies solely on your skills and abilities, but knowing an "average" would greatly aid me in understanding the situation, for example the amount of weddings undertaken within a year and pricing, and whether or not it would be a wise career choice.

Thanks in advance!

~Will

Scotty72

09-01-2011, 8:47pm

kiwi

09-01-2011, 8:49pm

average is $750.56 incl gst, excuding costs, tax, or dinner.

kiwi

09-01-2011, 10:23pm

Kym

09-01-2011, 10:38pm

G'Day Will, Welcome to AP

Take some time to read the many threads in this forum on this subject.

The fact is that due to easily accessed technology the professional photography market is being devalued.

If you have a driven passion for photography then go for it (and don't expect to be rich), otherwise find a good money earning career and keep photography as a hobby that might earn a few bucks on the side.

Wayne

09-01-2011, 10:45pm

Been a few of this type of thread recently, do a search for some idea of respondents views.

ricktas

10-01-2011, 5:32am

The number of weddings in Australia since 2000 has decreased every year. At the same time, the number of wedding photographers has increased. You will be seeking to find work in a decreasing market, with increasing competition.

I would suggest you re-evaluate your goal of being a wedding photographer and simply look at being a people photographer, and more. Defining your goal to a single genre is limiting your opportunities to become a full time professional photographer.

Good luck with your goals and good to see you doing some research before getting into it.

farmer_rob

10-01-2011, 6:15am

some stats

117,000 Australian couples get married annually
Wedding costs

According to truebride.com.au, the average Australian wedding costs $28,146.
Photography: $3320
Rings: $450
Reception: $11,219
Beauty: $828
Gifts: $326
Flowers: $1041
Honeymoon: $5600
Cars: $675
Ceremony: $950
Bride's attire: $2330
Groom's attire: $282
Stationery: $675
Miscellaneous: $450

so based on my estimation, $750.56 is a bit too little ?

Maybe too little - but not $3320 - truebride splits this into a photographers fee ($1688), a videographers fee ($1238) and "extra prints & video copy" ($394).

Their figures seem plausible - especially when broken down like above - and I am not disputing them for an individual marriage. However, I am disturbed by the use of "average". Are they suggesting that wedding expediture in Australia is $3.3 Billion/year (117,000 x $28,146). Although the ABS has considerable statistics on numbers of marriages, a cursory search does not reveal any expenditure details on the abs site. I think a better descriptor would be "the average 'full-blown' marriage" or similar, and it would be interesting to see some figures on the number of marriages that spend this sort of money.

bb45pz

10-01-2011, 6:24am

After a good many years of working at this and showing unique style and some serious quality you may be able to charge much higher but I suspect the number of people that get to this stage is quite small.

I know I paid $5500 for my wedding photography but that was the photographers top package (included some prints, full album etc etc) and the only one that included all the high res files also.

Good luck with this and I think Ricks comment regarding diversifying to being a 'people' photographer is excellent advice.

kiwi

10-01-2011, 8:15am

Maybe too little - but not $3320 - truebride splits this into a photographers fee ($1688), a videographers fee ($1238) and "extra prints & video copy" ($394).

Their figures seem plausible - especially when broken down like above - and I am not disputing them for an individual marriage. However, I am disturbed by the use of "average". Are they suggesting that wedding expediture in Australia is $3.3 Billion/year (117,000 x $28,146). Although the ABS has considerable statistics on numbers of marriages, a cursory search does not reveal any expenditure details on the abs site. I think a better descriptor would be "the average 'full-blown' marriage" or similar, and it would be interesting to see some figures on the number of marriages that spend this sort of money.

Indeed, Ive seen another figure quoting the size of the industry at $2B which brings the average down to $17K per wedding and therefore pro-rata the wedding photography component based on your figures down to $1000 roughly. Getting closer to my predicted average (which i still think's about right)

kiwi

10-01-2011, 8:19am

But what we do not know are the numbers of photographers actually doing weddings

So, take 117,000 weddings and lets guess that 17000 dont have any photographers at all
Then take the number of wedding photographers (Uncle Bob, weekend man, or FT Pro) - so let's conservatively estimate this at 10,000 nationally
So, 10 weddings per annum per photographer @ average of $1000 per wedding = FT income of $10,000

awesome maths @!@@@!@@

Scotty72

10-01-2011, 9:13am

My wedding 'tog cost me nix :) Family friend (of my dad's).

The whole wedding cost only a few hundred. :D

I must be the mortal enemy of the wedding industry that seems to promote the idea that the only measure of love is the size of the bill.

Back to the point... with so many new entrants coming into the market, it will be only the few (skilled with their camera and, more importantly, skilled in marketing) who will find a career in this. As it gets tighter and tighter, consumers will get more power to play 'togs off against each other. Quality will suffer as corners are cut and style (marketing) trumps substance (quality).

I'm sure others have seen some pretty low end gear being used: equally some high end gear used to yield some pretty crappy results.

So, I think the whole wedding tog scene is in for some turmoil... I'm glad to not be apart of it :th3:

Scotty

Dwarak

10-01-2011, 9:19am

I totally agree with Ricks comments of being a people photographer for more than weddings even like portrait stuff having a studio at home will be a start provided you have space and time a lot of people like to have studio pictures taken. Good luck

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kiwi

10-01-2011, 4:49pm

More good analysis

"
Professional photographers in Australia have weathered the twin storms of a declining industry and an economy-wide slowdown, and IBISWorld figures reveal 2011 will not be any better.
“Nearly half of the industry’s revenue is derived from wedding photography and competition is intense with more than 9000 professionals competing for a share of the nuptial pie," Mr Bryant says.
Lower costs have forced prices down and professional photographers are feeling the impact of the growing popularity of digital SLR cameras which make it easier for amateur enthusiasts to take professional quality pictures,” he says.
IBISWorld estimates a decline of 1.2 per cent ($10.25 million) for this sector in 2011."

farmer_rob

10-01-2011, 5:15pm

Not far off the 10,000 photographers there kiwi, I'll concede $750.56 as pretty close!

kiwi

10-01-2011, 7:26pm

Well, sort of, that's 9000 pros and doesnt include say me, or uncle bob

One can only assume that maybe only 1/4 of these weddings actually employ a ft pro, if that. Otherwise I can't see how the numbers add up if I make another assumption that a ft pro will charge an average of $4k

Will Zhao

10-01-2011, 7:36pm

Thanks to all who commented!

I will surely do something else on the side, I've done a few studio and children shots back in China(although weddings are still my favourite), what would again be the situation here in Australia?

After numerous searches on Seek.com.au, MyCareer.com.au and such and it seems impossible to find a photography job, so say if you want to earn around $60,000 per annum as a freelancer, where would be a good starting point?

Thanks in advance!

kiwi

10-01-2011, 7:44pm

Worse I suggest

Kym

10-01-2011, 7:58pm

I agree with Kiwi. The fact you can't find anything on Seek etc. is a big clue as to the current job market.

jeffde

10-01-2011, 8:00pm

Hey Guys
I know a pro wedding photographer (not me) who does 28 weddings a year (don't get many in winter out here) which is about capacity at a minimum of $3500 a wedding which is $98K a yr + he does other jobs and he takes about 6 weeks off every winter.
So maybe it depends on who you are - where you are - how good you are -and how good you market yourself.
Re Stats
I read a survey once where they asked a goup of people if they thought surveys were an accurate refelction of peoples thoughts:
50% said yes
40% said no

and

10% said he didn't think 10 was enough to ask....

I'm always wary of "stats"

kiwi

10-01-2011, 8:03pm

Yip, I'm sure many do well and are solidly booked, many many more will be on struggle street

All stats really do is provide trend analysis well

Still, interesting figures to speculate about

farmer_rob

10-01-2011, 9:04pm

...and how good you market yourself...

Really, that's the key - to Will (the OP) and to others: marketing of what you are selling. Those that market well will do OK. Those that don't won't. (I'm sure JM will disagree with me here if he's watching, but there's a fair argument about the quality of his marketing too.)

kiwi

10-01-2011, 9:17pm

80% business 20% photography huh

Hey, but, if you are good enough and smart enough you can succeed at anything, I truly believe that

farmer_rob

10-01-2011, 9:26pm

True. But you have to push your own barrow. Being good enough/smart enough encompasses good marketing, determination to succeed, willingness to overcome barriers. You can't just coast on natural ability.

Scotty72

10-01-2011, 9:31pm

Coca-cola spends more money on advertising than any other food manufacturer.

arthurking83

10-01-2011, 9:53pm

..... so say if you want to earn around $60,000 per annum as a freelancer, where would be a good starting point?

Thanks in advance!

Mars!

(sorry that's the EXTRA strong Coopers pale ale talking there :beer_mug:)

seriously! it seems nowhere. This is the impossible dream. Maybe after many years of hard yakka, you can get yourself up to close to that point, but it'll take a hell-of-a-lot of marketing expertise.

There! see?.. that's the key.. as long as you;re good at marketing, you can make basically as much as you like.
But of course you don't believe me.. who is not involved in the industry, and most likely never will be(due to a lack of interest),.. but it makes sense.

McDonalds is the key to understanding how a successful marketing campaign can make you a billionaire. How many times have you ever heard anyone comment on how great their McDonalds experience was?(me personally.. zero!)
I've never heard anyone make any flattering comments about McDonalds meals. And yet they are the food reatiler with the highest gross earnings of any other company in Aus, and in the World.. and yet it seems that everyone hates the garbage!! :confused013

So.. produce crap, sell it to the mindless via the Shopping Network(if we have that in Aus) and that $2billion or $3.3billion slice of the Aussie economy is all yours ;)

That'll be 20c plus GST for the confidential information I have provided tonight thanks :p

CallumPhoto

10-01-2011, 10:40pm

ricktas

11-01-2011, 11:05am

Where I live the only type of photographer that is in demand is weddings/portrait and domestic stuff in general. And you can make a very good living off it, you can also make a pretty weak living off it.

so where is that / Sunshine Coast or ACT (as per your profile), Please go to the settings menu (top right corner of the site) and fix your location

Will Zhao

11-01-2011, 8:45pm

Mars!

(sorry that's the EXTRA strong Coopers pale ale talking there :beer_mug:)

seriously! it seems nowhere. This is the impossible dream. Maybe after many years of hard yakka, you can get yourself up to close to that point, but it'll take a hell-of-a-lot of marketing expertise.

There! see?.. that's the key.. as long as you;re good at marketing, you can make basically as much as you like.
But of course you don't believe me.. who is not involved in the industry, and most likely never will be(due to a lack of interest),.. but it makes sense.

McDonalds is the key to understanding how a successful marketing campaign can make you a billionaire. How many times have you ever heard anyone comment on how great their McDonalds experience was?(me personally.. zero!)
I've never heard anyone make any flattering comments about McDonalds meals. And yet they are the food reatiler with the highest gross earnings of any other company in Aus, and in the World.. and yet it seems that everyone hates the garbage!! :confused013

So.. produce crap, sell it to the mindless via the Shopping Network(if we have that in Aus) and that $2billion or $3.3billion slice of the Aussie economy is all yours ;)

That'll be 20c plus GST for the confidential information I have provided tonight thanks :p

Thanks for your input

Some of my family friends are engineers and they easily earn that much, my parents want me to be an engineer too but it's not exactly what I enjoy...

So marketing is the important bit, thanks a lot, I'll keep that in mind, although it'll take awhile to catch up :D:D

campo

17-01-2011, 7:38am

Hey Guys
I know a pro wedding photographer (not me) who does 28 weddings a year (don't get many in winter out here) which is about capacity at a minimum of $3500 a wedding which is $98K a yr + he does other jobs and he takes about 6 weeks off every winter.
So maybe it depends on who you are - where you are - how good you are -and how good you market yourself.

bare in mind that out of that $3500 minimum, you need to take out things like GST, insurances, business expenses, products (eg prints/albums) etc etc...it's not as sweet as it seems.

If I was earning $100k per year from photography, I wouldn't be needing another job...

kiwi

17-01-2011, 7:53am

I'm thinking the same, $98k gross income wouldn't feed or house my family per annum. That'll end up $40-$50k net income probably.

You're going to want to be pulling in $5000 a week.

jeffde

18-01-2011, 11:35am

I'm thinking the same, $98k gross income wouldn't feed or house my family per annum. That'll end up $40-$50k net income probably.

You're going to want to be pulling in $5000 a week.

Thats only weddings - not privy to the other work he does.
Something to remember that in business a $100K turnover is not the same as a $100K wage - In business you can claim all of your business related expenses - car - equipment etc where you can't as a wage earner. - You just pay more TAX
I could comfortably live on a $150K turnover in a photography business (whilst my partner still works) (in Orange - granted rent, travel etc would be less than in the cities)
In my "other" job at present i spend all day analysing balance sheets and profit and losses of businessess all around NSW and many of them don't make a profit - but they still have a better house, car and lifestyle then i do as a wage earner...