Unofficial Forum Etiquette

[kiwi]

I think that there some forum etiquette that would be "nice" if people were not:

For example, dredging up threads older than a couple of months
For example, joining up and starting off asking a bunch of non picture taking questions
For example, posting your pics uninvited into anothers thread

I think in most cases its just not realising

any others ?

[ving]

joining up just so you can "look" at other people pictures without giving anything back to the forum.

[jim]

I completely agree with the third, not sure about the other two.

How about: When replying to a thread, don't quote the photos posted above. Though to be honest APers are pretty good on that score.

[colinbm]

Is Kiwi a new MOD ? :eek:
Col

[I @ M]

I would like to see people refrain from posting perfunctory 2 or 3 word replies to threads.

Not looking at anyone of course. :rolleyes:

[Boo53]

Kiwi

I can agree with #3, and can see where you're coming from with #2, but is reviving an old thread a problem? If the new poster has a valid question or comment isn't it better to ask it in the context of the existing thread rather than, perhaps, start a new thread & have most of the posts repeated

[jim]

I would like to see people refrain from posting perfunctory 2 or 3 word replies to threads.

Not looking at anyone of course. :rolleyes:

Mmm Hmm

[Art Vandelay]

Agreed on all, plus if you start a topic and get some replies, join back in. Don't just nick off till your next topic. :)

oh, and here's a photo of an upside down boat. :D


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4759856017_6fe29064df_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/emdacat/4759856017/)

[ving]

I would like to see people refrain from posting perfunctory 2 or 3 word replies to threads.

Not looking at anyone of course. :rolleyes:nice post.

[jim]

Here's your photo, gratuitously edited.

64255

[ving]

I too would like to see the end of literary anorexia... to often we have been subjected to the 2 word reply and we should not have to stand for it! :eek:

let be more Arthurian (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/member.php?10-arthurking83) in our approach to forum posting. :cool:

truely... as long as we are being nice to each other, is this not enough?:confused013

[Art Vandelay]

Here's your photo, gratuitously edited.



I won't say thanks. I'll just come up with a dozen reasons why the original was the I wanted it, and your critique was unwarranted. :D

[kiwi]

There are very rare examples where posting a new comment to an old post is valid, eg if there is new information, but posting "nice shot" to a thread four months old makes me irrationally cranky

[Kym]

For example, dredging up threads older than a couple of months

It depends!
I'd rather an old thread that answers a new members' question than a new thread.
That's why we have the similar thread pop up so when you type a thread title you have the option of adding to the old one.


For example, joining up and starting off asking a bunch of non picture taking questions

We (mods) kill off anything commercial as it is.
New members are probably better of sticking to things photographic, but OoF is what it is.


For example, posting your pics uninvited into another's thread

Specifically CC, Hi-jacking is not cool, and when it happens with a new member we often advise them via PM.
In some cases, eg. group event threads, it's ok and welcomed.


Two more...

For example, re-raising issues that Rick and the mods have answered :p

For example, posting polls that are pointless :p

:lol:

[jim]

I won't say thanks. I'll just come up with a dozen reasons why the original was the I wanted it, and your critique was unwarranted. :D

This would be where I say something about ingratitude, and threaten to take my expertise elsewhere.

[ricktas]

Members are free to do whatever they want. Just cause someone posts to an old thread, doesn't mean you have to read it all again, reply to it etc. The site is here for everyone to use, within the rules. Just cause one person doesn't like to see an old thread posted to, doesn't mean that several others, who may not have seen the thread before, don't want to look and or comment.

After all, once you look at the thread and realise it is an old one that has been 'bumped', if you click "Whats New" again it disappears from your thread list anyway.

*removed. It has been pointed out to me that the comment here may have offended some. sorry *. If this sort of stuff is worrying you, log-off and spend some time with family, friends or taking photos. AP is just a website and we are not solving world issues or making medical discoveries here.

[colinbm]

I,d rather soar with the eagles, then pick in the dirt :p
Col

[farmer_rob]

Members are free to do whatever they want.

Within the site rules.

Unofficial Etiquette to me seems like standards we apply to ourselves, and hope others apply as well. However, I'd be disappointed and unhappy if the unofficial etiquette suggested became official site rule - as Rick points out:


Just cause someone posts to an old thread, doesn't mean you have to read it all again, reply to it etc. The site is here for everyone to use, within the rules. Just cause one person doesn't like to see an old thread posted to, doesn't mean that several others, who may not have seen the thread before, don't want to look and or comment.




After all, once you look at the thread and realise it is an old one that has been 'bumped', if you click "Whats New" again it disappears from your thread list anyway.



and I know I don't have to shout at the TV either - I can just change channels. Sometimes it feels better shouting at the TV though.




Seriously if this is all you have to whine about, then your life isn't to bad. If this sort of stuff is worrying you, log-off and spend some time with family, friends or taking photos. AP is just a website and we are not solving world issues or making medical discoveries here.

You mean that we're not solving world poverty? I want my money back. :eek:

[kiwi]

I didn't realize my tone was whiny.

All societies have etiquette and all societies have rules

Back to my family I go.

[Patagonia]

Oh, I see were you are going now and most go down to commom sense ie posting a photo on others thread...or answering just for geting more post in your count (by the way, had never understand why is so important to some people to show infinite posts!)

Regarding old threads, your expample think that applies the second point I mentioned, I would go back to a 6 month old photo only if I had to ask as something regarding it, don´t see much contribution on saying "nice" to a 6 month old photo. But for gear or technical questions I think is much better to keep the old post alive, why? ie if search for "export in LR2" and I get 40 different threads I will probably read the first 5 and if I don´t find what I was looking for I´de probably ask the same thing againg...the next one with the same doubt will search and will get 41 :D different threads at the end making those old post useless.

regards

[Longshots]

I think that there some forum etiquette that would be "nice" if people were not:

For example, dredging up threads older than a couple of months
For example, joining up and starting off asking a bunch of non picture taking questions
For example, posting your pics uninvited into anothers thread

I think in most cases its just not realising

any others ?

well IMHO, the first two points would appear to be at odds with what a discussion forum is all about. The only thing that would appear to have some logic is the last point.


Dredging up old threads. Well if there is some new information, additional points of view, or its "new" the new reader; all of which I would consider to be valid. I dont really see what the issue is ? I suppose you could always then have the same subject, the same question being asked over and over again like "I've bought a camera, and I want to go into the photography business", and we can all watch the same answers being supplied by the same people.

New people joining with a question ? What is the problem with that ? I really dont see any logic to this point, and I have to say I find it hugely disappointing that there is a general agreement that that is "not the done thing". The very reason most people join, and take part in a forum, (after, in many cases, considerable time as a lurker) is because they have a question. I simply cannot comprehend why that is an issue.

[Erin]

New people joining with a question ? What is the problem with that ? I really dont see any logic to this point, and I have to say I find it hugely disappointing that there is a general agreement that that is "not the done thing". The very reason most people join, and take part in a forum, (after, in many cases, considerable time as a lurker) is because they have a question. I simply cannot comprehend why that is an issue.

Have to agree there. I've joined many forums where the first thing I've posted apart from the usual intro has been a question but being a mod on another forum, I can understand that it can often be seen as lurkers taking advantage of the generosity of others who go to the effort of posting replies and offering a ton of free information. Add on the fact that most questions that are posted by newbies have sort of been asked (over and over and over) and it really only needs a quick search to find that info and it can be a trifle annoying. Catch 22.

[ricktas]

I didn't realize my tone was whiny.

All societies have etiquette and all societies have rules

Back to my family I go.

I have removed my comment, and a PM is on the way Darren

[farmer_rob]

I don't care if someone's first post is a question. I don't see this as an etiquette issue. It is an issue if the question is answered, and all those who have contributed get nothing back in the thread to know if the answers were useful, or even acknowledged - there are a few "one-post wonders". (This has another consequence too - what if the answers didn't fix the problem? People are left with faulty or incomplete solutions.)

I do, however, get irritated about dredging up old threads - yes, I can ignore them, and yes - sometimes the revisit is valuable (hence, it should not be a rule). However, some threads are inherently short lived, and their time has passed. Also, sometimes the discussion has meandered so far off-topic that bringing it back on topic is silly (eg. the "Has photography become too easy" thread - highly entertaining, but the joke is reaching it's natural end.)

In most cases, it is a newcomer to the site. They post an introduction thread, spin through a few forum areas they can now see, and make a comment on a series of them - and occasionally hit old threads. Tolerance is easy, but sometimes I just wish they took a bit more care.

[kiwi]

no problem

To clarify a couple of items

I dont think its good etiquette to post to a 6 month old thread a comment that adds no additional value (eg "nice shot")
I still think its rude to start your involvement on a forum with a whole bunch of questions. Then add nothing back in return, if they return. Sure its a discussion forum, no problem with that, but i like a bit of give with a bit of take, not all one way traffic. I think its simple good manners. It happens a lot where someone joins, asks a question, then buggers off.

Look, not meaning to make a mountain out a molehill here, but these things irk me. So does burnt toast.

[ricktas]

no problem

To clarify a couple of items

I dont think its good etiquette to post to a 6 month old thread a comment that adds no additional value (eg "nice shot")
I still think its rude to start your involvement on a forum with a whole bunch of questions. Then add nothing back in return, if they return. Sure its a discussion forum, no problem with that, but i like a bit of give with a bit of take, not all one way traffic. I think its simple good manners. It happens a lot where someone joins, asks a question, then buggers off.

Look, not meaning to make a mountain out a molehill here, but these things irk me. So does burnt toast.

I agree with some of your sentiment here Darren. Certainly we do see people who join up and straight off post "I want..." and once they get answers, never return. Unfortunately at the time it is hard to make a judgement call. Cause they could go on to be active site participants, but we don't know that until they do. Hindsight is a great thing.

How do we stop it, or curb it? I don't think we can, either from an admin/mod or from members. That is just the way of the net. Want an answer, find a site, ask, then move onto as site for the next question.

Interestingly though, most of these 'type' of threads tend to be regarding starting out and becoming a pro'.

[farmer_rob]

You can't stop it (people joining, asking a question, and never being seen again), and any substantive attempt to control it really damages the forum IMO. Some people roll on to become active members, others don't.

However, I do enjoy the "I wanna become a pro" threads - better than Jerry Springer, but occasionally a mod nightmare, I'm sure.

[kiwi]

I know you can't stop it, and we all bite, and sometime it develops into a good thread.

Back to making toast I go

[cinvala]

with vegemite?

[mongo]

Mongo broadly agrees with #3 of Kiwi’s professed irritations. The very few exceptions to this would include where you may be trying to demonstrate your reply with a helpful example – after all, a picture is worth a thousand words sometimes.

Sorry to say, Mongo does not agree with the camp that disapproves of men and women (and Mongos) of few words. Mongo recently said something about this in another thread to do with giving more comprehensive critiques (which he also disagreed with). Some of that reply touches upon and is relevant to the issue of alleged short replies. Mongo repeats some of his response below:

“Mongo generally agrees that good CC is very useful. However, it would fast become a boring site (instead of an interesting mix) if everything is a serious critique. Some things, images and topics just scream out for the one liner now and then. Mostly people post to get others’ genuine reaction to their work. This can be a critique or just a “Wow” or something else. Sometimes a simple “wow” says an awful lot and Mongo has never known a recipient of a “wow” to be disappointed or looking for more. If someone really craves a critique, they can post it in the appropriate section or actually go out of their way in the introduction to their post to actively seek strong CC (and they will get it)…….. Mongo thinks members should post what they feel about an image. No doubt, on many occasions, they may be spurred on by what they see to write an appraisal/critique of it.”

[jim]

Perhaps there should be a "WOW" button beside the "Thanks" button.

[geoffsta]

One bad etiquette that doesn't happen that often on this site, but on some sites it's prevalent is "quoting".
Seen in this thread as a small example is post 27 by un-named poster. The post he quoted was the one above. Easier to just have said; Kiwi, I agree...... Bla Bla Bla
Post 22 in this thread is acceptable, because it relates to the original post on another page.
I have seen on here were someone posted five or six images, and 2 posts down someone has quoted the whole thing. How darn annoying...

Thats my bad etiquette whine.
Geoff. :santa:

[ricktas]

One bad etiquette that doesn't happen that often on this site, but on some sites it's prevalent is "quoting".
Seen in this thread as a small example is post 27 by un-named poster. The post he quoted was the one above. Easier to just have said; Kiwi, I agree...... Bla Bla Bla
Post 22 in this thread is acceptable, because it relates to the original post on another page.
I have seen on here were someone posted five or six images, and 2 posts down someone has quoted the whole thing. How darn annoying...

Thats my bad etiquette whine.
Geoff. :santa:

Report those posts. We will edit them. I have edited quite a few of those over the years, but as we can't watch every post, we need members help to draw our attention to things at times.

[geoffsta]

Now... Where is that "report" button again... :lol:

[kiwi]

Polls that don't have an expiry date of 7 days get my goat, someone votes a year later and the poll thread pops back to the top

[kiwi]

Also people that dont have their real first name in their signature block

Signature blocks that run over 5 or more lines

I think some more buttons would be cool too
"nice shot"
"I don't agree"
"just kidding"

Etc

[jim]

Hmm. My real first name isn't in my signature. Hasn't been a problem...?

[kiwi]

Really Jim, what is your first name, I feel bad referring to you by your nickname

[jim]

No probs, Bob.

[Xebadir]

I was tempted to wait until this thread had dropped off the page and then to post in it just to annoy Kiwi but I am just not patient enough.

Uninvited picture posting and Hijack is definitely unwelcome and a problem. I think the sites implementation of don't edit my image is definitely a positive move to combat this.

I agree with Kiwi on the point...Nice shot lines on a very old thread are just annoying and a waste of time....whereas constructive critique after this period can still be pertinent and useful.

Though it does seem to be that theres a fair bit of old man whining going on in this thread. I believe their is some famous quote along the lines of "I don't like it"

:xmas31:

[farmer_rob]

Yes, but if we don't whine about the things that annoy us, no one will ever know. (Whether they ever care is a different issue :D.)

[kiwi]

I'm not whining, or I hope not

I'm simply stating what irks me about certain forum behaviour

[Cage]

Oh dear, I've just resurrected a really old thread. Sad that the search tool led me to it. But it did contain answers for me, and led to further questions.

OK Kiwi, thumbs down for #1, but your other two points have some merit. I have a particular dislike for thread hijackers, more so when they wander way off-topic.

Cheers

Kevin

[kiwi]

Kevin, re the point you raise re #1 I specifically are not talking about that sort of reason to post to older threads

[jwheat65]

Lots of old threads contain juicy bits that deserve to be read and commented on. :)

Mmmm toast...

[LJG]

I didn't realize my tone was whiny.

All societies have etiquette and all societies have rules

Back to my family I go.

You're a Kiwi, we expect it Darren.........................oops, maybe that should be part of the forum etiquette, no putting dung on our resident Kiwi hahaha

[Kym]

Bump! (Breaking one of Kiwi's rules :p )

I've had questions re etiquette by PM from a few new members recently...


I think that there some forum etiquette that would be "nice" if people were not:

For example, dredging up threads older than a couple of months
For example, joining up and starting off asking a bunch of non picture taking questions
For example, posting your pics uninvited into another's thread
(Added by Kym...) Not using search (we have two methods, use google via AP Extras on the menu)
Short non contributing posts (eg. 'Nice pic')

I think in most cases its just not realising (Kym: This is probably the main cause)

any others ?

[Tannin]

if you start a topic and get some replies, join back in. Don't just nick off till your next topic. :)

Nope. Bad idea. Read but don't post again in the thread unless you actually have something to say.

[davidd]

I think it's bad manners to ask for help, then never reply to the suggestions.

Sometimes someone will post 'I need help, .....'

Several people will offer suggestions, and the OP does not reply.

We don't know if the suggestions helped or not, and if they did, he should at least say 'Thanks'.

[Tannin]

I agree, Davidd. Obviously, in that case, you do have something to say - e.g., "thanks Bruce and Charlie, your suggestions worked brilliantly". But very often, people post a picture, get some replies, then reply saying essentially nothing at all. it's often just an excuse to bump the thread.

[kiwi]

One bump is ok if you think you have been missed out for whatever reason, might just be a busy day

Bemoaning a reply isn't on

[Scotty72]

This is a good eg of why relying on etiquette is a bad idea.

In the case of bumping threads, some may have been brought up to let sleeping dogs lie, others to allow time to pass then re-think an issue The main problem is, who's upbringing is more correct?

http://blogs.abc.net.au/nsw/2011/07/english-mother-in-laws-email-is-rather-to-the-point-one-might-say.html

[ricktas]

I think it's bad manners to ask for help, then never reply to the suggestions.

Sometimes someone will post 'I need help, .....'

Several people will offer suggestions, and the OP does not reply.

We don't know if the suggestions helped or not, and if they did, he should at least say 'Thanks'.

I agree with this entirely. And I have been known to send members PM's asking them to go back to their thread and thank the members who provided information to them.

My other pet-hate, is people who:

1. Only post about gear, and what is best to use etc, but never post photos to show us that they can walk the talk.

If I am asking if X lens is worth buying, I want to get replies from people who have used the lens, not someone who quotes ad-naseum from another site about the lens, when they have probably never even held onto one. I often giggle when I copy someone's post about a lens into google and find the statement they are making is actually a bit of plagiarism (complete cut-n-paste) from someone else on the net. At least if you are going to do that, put into your post " I have read" or similar, so we all know its not your experience at all.

2. People who post only to ask questions, or get critique, but never comment on any other members photos or threads.

Generally accepted politeness says join in on forums, rather than just post when you want to know something. Others have been willing to spend their own time replying to your threads, so how about being polite and giving back to others as well. I really can't be bothered giving this type of person the time of day.

[ricktas]

This is a good eg of why relying on etiquette is a bad idea.

In the case of bumping threads, some may have been brought up to let sleeping dogs lie, others to allow time to pass then re-think an issue The main problem is, who's upbringing is more correct?

http://blogs.abc.net.au/nsw/2011/07/english-mother-in-laws-email-is-rather-to-the-point-one-might-say.html


I read that and thought, good on the future mother-in-law. Her email was spot on about pretentious upstarts who want castle weddings etc.

[Tannin]

Oh, I don't mind a bumped thread, even if I just grumbled about it. :) Best if there is a genuine addition to it though - I suppose we all tend to revisit the threads we have posted in if we see them pop up on New Posts (there must have been something interesting there, otherwise why did we post?), and it's a bit annoying to revisit an interesting thread only to discover that the new addition amounts to nothing at all. Others seem to feel that it is a bit annoying if they say "nice shot" on a thread and the OP doesn't come back and say "thankyou for saying nice shot".

Shrug.

[zollo]

dont mean to sound grumpy, i havent had a coffee yet, but the only thing I have learnted from the last two pages is that every one has different opinions. and different amounts that they feel like contributing to different threads. and different names they wish to be known by. which is what a forum is. which brings us back to the first square, step or poll. btw if my post annoys ya feel free to leave a comment, cc, a one liner, thanks or the new WOW button :D

[Tannin]

dont mean to sound grumpy, i havent had a coffee yet, but the only thing I have learnted from the last two pages is that every one has different opinions. and different amounts that they feel like contributing to different threads. and different names they wish to be known by. which is what a forum is. which brings us back to the first square, step or poll. btw if my post annoys ya feel free to leave a comment, cc, a one liner, thanks or the new WOW button :D

I agree. :) Also, I think it is rude to quote entire posts, especially when the original is directly above.

[jim]

...Others seem to feel that it is a bit annoying if they say "nice shot" on a thread and the OP doesn't come back and say "thank you for saying nice shot".

Shrug.

This is me, I'm afraid.

[Kym]

You can acknowledge posts with the thanks button - saves a full post

[Scotty72]

I read that and thought, good on the future mother-in-law. Her email was spot on about pretentious upstarts who want castle weddings etc.

Oh! I agree with you :th3:.

I think the whole blown-out wedding thing is stupid. The very idea of blowing thousands upon thousands on a wedding is dumb (including to hire photographers) and personally, I find it sickening that people will do it whilst others may be literally going without food.

But, still, it doesn't mean you or I are right.

[Scotty72]

I agree. :) Also, I think it is rude to quote entire posts, especially when the original is directly above.

But, there may be a very good reason for it.

Eg. If you posted something and I wanted to comment of what a good point it was, if I don't quote (at least parts) then if you, or someone else, posts another point then, my, 'Good point' may seem like it relates to the new point - get my point?

Now my pet hate (and this may be because I teach English) is people who don't bother to break their writing up into paragraphs. They just go from one point (or topic) to another without starting a new paragraph (or even a new sentence) because cheeseburgers are rarely as tasty as fried chicken. Now when you consider that the difference between a Canon 1D and a Nikon D90 is substantial is it any wonder that Julia Gillard is often compared to Brutus in her tactics at removing Rudd from office.

Scotty

[Ms Monny]

Now my pet hate (and this may be because I teach English) is people who don't bother to break their writing up into paragraphs. They just go from one point (or topic) to another without starting a new paragraph (or even a new sentence)

Oh, my word, YES! I absolutely detest seeing a big lot of words all mumble jumbled together (sorry Scotty if this is offensive grammar for a Teacher :D) and no break or paragraph in sight!

I have actually, in other forums, complained about this due to the fact that it makes it very difficult to read and understand. I actually tune out and lose interest if there are no paragraphs....once I've tuned out, you have lost me and all the knowledge you have written has not sunk into my brain.

Now, on other parts of the discussion....

* I would never have seen this thread if Kym hadn't bumped it. Actually I didn't see that it was first started in 2010 until I came across his post. So, you see, rehashing old thread does have it's merits - especially for people who haven't been around since the birth of this forum.

* I couldn't care less if people have their real names or not in the signature! I will just call them by the name they want to use.

* I also detest people quoting on images that the thread-maker has shown. DO NOT put their images in quotes. We have seen their images and we don't need to see them again. You can quite easily just cut out parts of the quote and only use what you want to quote on (like I did with Scotty's post).

* I find that people bumping threads just to get them back into the new threads area is a pain. Yes, we ALL would love to have our images looked at by EVERYONE but sometimes just using the 'thanks' at the end of the post is more appropriate than actually posting "Thanks (name), I am glad you like my image". Waste of time. BTW, I am guilty of posting a thanks instead of using the button :o

I am sure there are other things, but I guess it is just rehashing what everyone else has said! :D

[cam bicknell]

This was an interesting read for me as I've not participated much in forums previously.
A useful bump.

[Kym]

Remember, these are not hard site rules, but simply the unwritten forum etiquette that most members expect.
It's all about politeness.