New camera thoughts

[colinl]

I had decided to buy a new camera. My original aim was a D300s, but after reading the reviews of the D7000 I'm undecided. I know the D7000 is the replacement for the D90, but the prices are more in line with the D300s. From reading the reviews the D7000 sounds like it may even take better pictures. What I'm not sure about is the way the metering systems compare and the build quality difference. Anyone like to offer their thoughts on this, it would be appreciated. I would also be interested to hear how you guys that have bought the D7000 are finding it.

[ricktas]

Comparing models and features is hard. Cause no matter what you decide, within 18 months it will be superseded anyway. So my thoughts are get the one YOU want to get, and then make the most of it, and forget about the others ones you were considering. The D7000 is getting some mighty fine reviews, but the D300s is a damn good camera too. Glad it is you, and not me, making the model choice.

[colinl]

Thanks Rick. Superceeded in 18 months! A very real fact of life with technology these days. I guess that is one reason for not waiting for the latest release, as you would never end up buying anything :)

[Kym]

Side by side. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=pentax_k5%2Cnikon_d300s%2Cnikon_d7000&show=all

There are two 'togs at work with D300s - very good. The D7000 should be a bit lower cost. If i were buying Nikon I'd get the D7000 due to the new sensor

[farmer_rob]

Here's my perspective, given I was in a similar situation.

I've been considering an upgrade for a while - and was considering the d300s. My concern was that it will be replaced "soon". When the d7000 was announced, my decision suddenly became easy. As I see it, the key differences (for me) are:

Sensor size - 16Mp vs 12Mp (d7000 better)
Autofocus module - 39 points vs 51 points (d300s better)
High ISO - general view seems to be the d7000 is better at high ISO - but either camera is good
Remote unit - d7000 can use the ML3 infra-red remote. The d300s needs a "fancier" one (much more expensive if you want the genuine nikon)
Video - d7000 has "better" video than the d300s (higher res/frame rate) but still not ideal.
Age - d7000 is newest sensor tech - d300s is older.
Price - d7000 is still slightly cheaper, but price will drop over next few months.
Features - As far as I can tell, there are no significant operational features available on the d300s that are not on the d7000. (d7000 has liveview, high/low speed continuous shutter, quiet mode, mirror up, microfocus adjust, level indicator, top LCD, magnesium body, buttons and knobs galore.)

Overall, I had decided that when I was going to get a new camera, it had to be recently released, and a step up in technology. I think the d7000 achieves this. I think the replacement for the d300s (which should be next year) will be an absolute stunner, based on what has been done with the d7000. I am very happy with my choice - and I have it now rather than having to wait for a d300s replacement.

[colinl]

Thanks Kym. There really isn't much of difference in price, about $35. from one Brisbane supplier and off the net the D300s can even be a little cheaper than the D7000.

Yes, the sensor seems to be an improvement over most of their range. I just wonder if the metering system will work as well and as fast as the D300s.

[colinl]

Thanks Rob. I didn't realise the D300s couldn't use the infra red remote. I already have one of these for my D60. How do you find the manual focus on the D7000? Do you get good feedback from it?

[kiwi]

I think if you are a sport shooter go the d300s, better af and I belv a stronger body and probably better weather proofing.....otherwise no brainer d7000

[farmer_rob]

Colin, I haven't done much with manual focus, but the indicators are much better than the d40x (same as d60). The viewfinder is brighter, and larger. I have found the autofocus to be much better than the d40x (not hard!). BTW, I have not used a d300 or d300s.

Kiwi, I haven't tried sports, but I have tried with our horses galloping around the paddock - I'd say the AF is pretty good, and *may* give the d300s a run for its money. Not so sure about the stronger body - the d7000 is a pretty solid camera, and although there are some discussions about how far the metal frame extends, it does have a magnesium frame. Weather-proofing - the d300s will be better, but the d7000 is pretty good.

[colinl]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm still not sure which way I will go. The trouble with new models is sorting out the marketing hype from the reality. At this stage I'm leaning towards the D7000, I think my only real question now regards the speed and accuracy of the metering system. If the D7000 is comparable to the D300s in this I will go with the newer tech option.

[kiwi]

I think it will be very close based on the specs and initial reviews

[Briegman]

Ok, now I need to go back and start research all over again. Own D90 and am tossing up between D700 or D7000. I'll also look at getting theNikon 70-200mm VR 2.8 lens. Plus DX vs FX. I'll use my camera everyday on weekends.
Any advice is appreciated.

[kiwi]

I f I had a D90 I wouldnt upgrade to D7000, I dont think that there's a significant advantage

There are a few reasons Id go FX though (DOF and perspective)

[colinl]

I think I'd be looking at a D700 too, if I had the D90. I was thinking of the D700 along with the other options, the killer for me was the extra $500 over the cost of the D300s and D7000. I could use that cash for a reasonable zoom. At the moment I only have the two lenses that came with my D60 and the 105 VR nikon micro.

[farmer_rob]

Briegman, I don't think the d7000 is the right step from the d90 - there are not many changes: a few extra pixels and a newer AF module; and by all reports the d90 is a very good camera. (Another poster on the forum, Eberbachl, bought the d7000 as an upgrade to a d90, and is now selling it - he indicated that it was not a big improvement over the d90.) I upgraded from a d40x and Colin appears to be going from a d60 (which is almost the same) - there is a big change from our cameras, even if we went to a d90.

The d700 as an FX camera is a totally different beast, and not comparable at all to the d7000. I think you need to be very clear as to why you are changing - what doesn't the d90 do for you - and make sure the replacement solves those problems.

[Briegman]

Thanks for the post, it's good to hear another side of advice, other than that from the Treasurer! I guess you're right. I upgraded from D40 to D90 And now I suppose would like to go on up. Still need a bit more research. Cheers

[colinl]

Still need a bit more research. Cheers
The research is doing my head in! It might just come down to a flip of the coin. It would be much easier if they were like cars and you go for a test ride :)

[Eberbachl]

Briegman, I don't think the d7000 is the right step from the d90 - there are not many changes: a few extra pixels and a newer AF module; and by all reports the d90 is a very good camera. (Another poster on the forum, Eberbachl, bought the d7000 as an upgrade to a d90, and is now selling it - he indicated that it was not a big improvement over the d90.) I upgraded from a d40x and Colin appears to be going from a d60 (which is almost the same) - there is a big change from our cameras, even if we went to a d90.

The d700 as an FX camera is a totally different beast, and not comparable at all to the d7000. I think you need to be very clear as to why you are changing - what doesn't the d90 do for you - and make sure the replacement solves those problems.

This is true... for the shooting I do, the D7000 is not much more camera than my D90.

Having said that, it is of course excellent (says alot about the D90 too ;) ).

If I didn't have my D90, and was looking at the D7000 or the D300s I'd go for the D7000 in a heartbeat.

;)

[Briegman]

I'm with you Colin. Research is killing me. I almost feel like I'm 6 again waiting for Xmas. Maybe a good thing. All my lenses are compatible FX. at this stage I'm going to hunt around now for a good priced D700, might look at Adorama with the Aussie dollar being do strong against the US$.
I want it NOW. That's why I'm gonna wait at least another two weeks. In the meantime, more reading in Forums, that's the way to go. No sales pitch advise. Thanks guys.

[Obes]

I upgraded fom a D90 to the D7000.
All things I missed from the D200 were there except the exposure bracketing, but I can do that manually and it's only an issue when light is tricky (unless you are into HDR).

eg. Matrix Metering with AI-S and earlier lenses

For instance a pre-AI (modified) Nikkor Micro Auto 55mm f3.5

100% crop....
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5214188250_3ac2eee43b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46642088@N07/5214188250/)
OBZ_005920(001).NEF (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46642088@N07/5214188250/) by ObesAu (http://www.flickr.com/people/46642088@N07/), on Flickr
Unedited (but shrunk to be internet friendly)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5085/5213594177_81ee37b765_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46642088@N07/5213594177/)
OBZ_005937.NEF (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46642088@N07/5213594177/) by ObesAu (http://www.flickr.com/people/46642088@N07/), on Flickr

[farmer_rob]

The d7000 has exposure bracketing - only 3 steps though. (The d200 to d90 seems a strange step though - there would always be useability things you'd miss. I can see why the d7000 works for you over the d90.)

[arthurking83]

There are 'operational' aspects of a device that never seem to get commented on by many people that do reviews, simply because they've never used those capabilities.

For example, (and this is just me, because of my particular list of wants). That 10 pin plug found on the front of the Dxxx and Dx series cameras is a feature that probably just couldn't live without now.
Even tho my only use for it is for connecting my GPS to the D300 and the D90 and D7000 also have GPS connectivity too, it's the manner in which Nikon implemented the connectivity on the D90 and D7000 that has me turned off.
The D90 and D7000 have their connectors on the side access panel, hidden behind a rubber grommet. having this connector on the side is basically asking for trouble if you move around a lot, or handle the camera frequently. makes handholding whilst the GPS connected a PITA. I usually tend to leave the GPS connected to the camera more often that not, and as I see it, the D90/7000 system woudl make that both annoying and possible conditions for something to go wrong(most likely in the form of a snapped connector).
One of my priorities is usability of the device, I'd give up native IR remote any day to have one of those 10pin connectors fitted to the D7000. I have both the IR remote for my old D70 and I have a few variants of aftermarket remotes for my D300 too, and for both usability and ability and value for money, the aftermarket devices always win out. Whilst the Nikon IR system is handy to have, the aftermarket systems are a lot better in their implementations and ability in terms of distance and reliability of operation in the field. In some situations the IR nature of the Nikon remote can either misfire or in rare and very specific situations fire unexpectedly(I have a TV remote that operates the Nikon IR remote system on my D70s).
I remember once when the ML remote just refused to operate on a bright and hot sunny day out in the desert areas past Mildura(Lake Mungo) at about 2-5meters distance. Whether due to the bright sunny conditions or heat or distance, I don't know, it just didn't work :(
But the placement of the connectors on the side of the camera is a killer negative for me.

The D7000 definitely looks to have a slight edge in terms of higher ISO quality(which is always something to place a lot of importance on), but from the images I've seen(so far) the D300s sensor(and hence D90 sensor) seems to have slightly better grain quality at the lower ISO value(of 100) which is seen mainly in the blue channel and in the shadow areas. Of course careful and controlled PP can easily take care of those aspects, but I like to keep PP to a minimum(usually zero) level.
I'm generally one of the gear head types that gets annoyed with increasing pixel numbers in camera, if it means any hit in quality compared to the lower pixel cameras.

[farmer_rob]

...
One of my priorities is usability of the device, I'd give up native IR remote any day to have one of those 10pin connectors fitted to the D7000....

But for me, the IR remote is a key feature, as I do not want to have multiple remotes or a new remote (I recognise there are issues with the IR system though.) However, I would like to have the functionality behind the 10-pin connector. There is no reason for them to be mutually exclusive.


...But the placement of the connectors on the side of the camera is a killer negative for me.

But this is because you have established a handling process based on the d300. I have a handling process based on a d40x. I'll change with the d7000. You'll change with the d700 replacement (because FX will be an advantage for you that overrides other considerations, and you'll finally crack when they bring out the replacement :))

Slightly OT - why do they need a gazillion different connectors? Why not just usb and perhaps fire-wire for video out? I will *NEVER* use the HDMI connector, and am unlikely to use video out. I'd like to hook up my garmin GPS (but the camera does does not understand the garmin USB protocol, nor can it be connected anyway), and I'd like to be able to hook up a pocket wizard (which requires the 10-pin connector AFAIK).


...
The D7000 definitely looks to have a slight edge in terms of higher ISO quality(which is always something to place a lot of importance on), but from the images I've seen(so far) the D300s sensor(and hence D90 sensor) seems to have slightly better grain quality at the lower ISO value(of 100) which is seen mainly in the blue channel and in the shadow areas. Of course careful and controlled PP can easily take care of those aspects, but I like to keep PP to a minimum(usually zero) level.
I'm generally one of the gear head types that gets annoyed with increasing pixel numbers in camera, if it means any hit in quality compared to the lower pixel cameras.

Hmmm... I think that is a fairly subjective analysis regarding the grain, and don't agree that there is a hit in quality. Greater pixel density is going to inherently change things at a pixel-peeping level. I don't agree with "better or worse" though.

[Obes]

I actually prefer the connector on the side. My D200 annoys me with the front facing connectors. I get why you are saying it tho, but it's just not for me. It'd be even better with a right angle connector. (Wonder if they exist 3rd party)
Yes the IR remote is a PITA I too have experienced it's lack of reliability in daylight. Hence why I use my wired one way more. And if I need to be in front of the camera I use a timer. (I am hoping the 3rd party grips have some expanded functionality maybe a radio trigger or improved IR, the Nikon grip seems very expensive for what it does).

And the D7000, to me, doesn't have that many connectors when compared to say the D200.
Yes it has the video cable and DHMI that'll never use but they are things someone like my parents or in-laws would use.
But the GPS connector doubles as the wired remote connector, with a pass through! (nice!) I Use it.
And it has USB, I use it.
I am not sure you could get more minimalist then that... you could get rid of USB and force people to use card readers.
I also like that all my little toys for the D90 work with the D7000.

(random extra comment the GP-1 can actually be hooked up to your PC as well).

[farmer_rob]

I rely on the USB connector, but just think everything should be done through it :D.

Obviously, the 9 pin - GPS - connector also provides access to the range of non-IR remotes. Hopefully I can get the right cable to work with a pocket wizard.

[colinl]

Well I'm still no closer to being able to make the choice. I do like the idea of a good build quality and the D300s has a good reputation in this. I think it may have the edge in speed and accuracy of metering? The D7000 looks like it has better low light performance, which is also important. The D7000 also has the better video, although this for me is just a nice to have option rather than an a needed feature.

[farmer_rob]

"Paralysis by Analysis" :)
Is this going to be your last body purchase? I think you are placing too much emphasis on minor detail. Have you handled both cameras? For me, the two cameras are sufficiently similar that emotional considerations were more important - "newest/hot" camera, won't be superseded for 12 months (hopefully), "more MP" vs Great camera, 12 months old, but based on older design, "fewer MP". My bet is you will go with the d300s - it's what you want, but you just can't quite get over the newness of the d7000. (And my drivers are not necessarily your drivers.)

As for "speed and accuracy of metering" - WRT speed of metering, everything is fast. Arguably, some are faster but I don't think it makes *any* difference. I can't tell that the d7000 is any "faster" than the d40x in reality, although it will be technically. In my experience, metering is *much* faster than the photographer, and has been since TTL metering was introduced. (If you are talking speed of AF, the d300s will probably be better.) WRT meter accuracy, the biggest failure of any TTL metering system (beyond the photographer :)) revolves around how it averages across the entire frame. Matrix metering is the worst offender, and the d80 was (by all accounts) the worst example. The problem with matrix metering IMO is it seems to be designed for "people" shots, and if you don't do people shots, it may not get it right. Spot metering is far more reliable, and works in conjunction with the AF. But, exposure compensation can adjust for general meter bias, and experience and understanding of exposure is far more important than a fancy metering system.

Having said that, I find the metering on the d7000 to give a slightly "better" exposure than the d40x - but the active D-Lighting and (I think) better dynamic range are big contributors here. (Note - you can also adjust the size of the spot metering circle on the d7000 - a neat feature IMO). But remember, no matter how fancy the metering, you are still only getting the shutter and aperture settings (and maybe ISO) - the metering does not change the light available.

I think the build quality is sufficiently high - magnesium body, weather/dust sealing etc. - and certainly better than the d40x. I'm also aware of pro bodies that have failed - you still need to be careful with the camera and lens.

[colinl]

You are probably right. I am over thinking it. With regard to metering, I had meant the speed at which the camera can set itself up for a shot, so AF is probably my biggest concern. Often I find my D60 just can't react fast enough to get a shot I would have liked. I'm sure both these cameras would be a big improvement on the D60.
I appreciate the input. It certainly helps in working things through your head when you can get varied perspectives.

[farmer_rob]

Don't forget that the operation of the lens is also an issue for AF speed - some are better than others, AF-S are meant to be better than the older screw-drive lenses, but the internet suggests some AF-S lenses are faster than others.

The d40x was a bugger for not letting you take a shot because it had "lost focus" (and it wasn't refocussing :action:). I haven't had that problem with the d7000 - the extra focus points handle it with ease, and you can turn off that annoying restriction anyway (Using a smaller aperture and flash, pin-sharp focus on the subject is ideal but not essential.) I think you'll find the same advantages with the d300s. (And with either of them, you'll still miss shots - but then you have to blame the operator :D)

[maccaroneski]

Are you keeping the D90 or will you be selling it to fund the purchase?

[colinl]

I only have a D60. I'll probably keep it, I doubt they would be worth much these days and it could still come in handy at times.

I think I may have made a choice. It will probably be the the D7000, the later technology would be good and the low light ability would be a bonus. The only thing holding me to the D300s choice was the build quality and speed of auto focus. Neither of which would be far in front of the D7000, if at all.

[Briegman]

Hi
I have made up my mind as well, I'm going from D90 to D700. As long as the replacement is not coming out before Xmas, hence I'll wait for Santa End of the day the camera will only enhance the photographer, not the other way around. Cheers guys

[farmer_rob]

Colin, I hope you like it as much as I like mine (or, "it's been nice knowing you..." :o)
Briegman, you'll have a fun christmas - or at least one learning a new aspect of photography.

Regards, Rob.

[colinl]

I've got to say, I'm struggling with this. Normally I'm pretty sure footed when it comes to making a purchase. I don't think I've given this much thought or effort into buying any of our houses over the years, yet alone a car, or perhaps even a motorcycle.

Has anyone heard of a dead pixel or soft focus problem on the D7000? I guess they have been selling them by the truck load since their release, so a couple of duds would be expected. These things can gather their own momentum these days with the internet and sometimes minor concerns get blown out of proportion.

[N*A*M]

dead pixels happen on many sensors but are rarely a real issue, especially when downsizing for web or printing on paper
sharpness claims probably come from the physics of higher resolution, plus lack of proper RAW support by software

just buy it and don't sweat the little details from the few negative comments on the web

[colinl]

Hi Nam, How do you like the D300?

[rellik666]

Having had a look at the D7000 (in pictures) I am still happy with my D300s....and tbh my only regret is not going all the way to D700....It looks to me like there are some bits missing from the D7000 and options that are easily available on the D300s not on the D7000....forgive my ignorance but where are the DOF, AF-ON, Focus Area and Continous Servo Buttons on the D7000...I use these regularly and wouldn't want to have to hunt for them. I am assuming they could be programmed?

[farmer_rob]

Roo, Why wouldn't you be happy with the d300s? The d7000 is not a replacement for the d300 series. IMO it lies between the d90 and the d300 in useability/functions. However, it has better tech than the d90 (more AF points, newer metering) and a newer sensor than both the d90 and the d300 (higher ISO, more MP). IMO, the d300s will be replaced before the d7000 and if the d7000 is a guide, the d300s replacement will be a great camera.

BTW, Focus Area and AF-A/AF-S/AF-C can be set by a button and the command dials (button is in center of Autofocus/manual lever on the front of the camera). You can program the ae lock to be "focus on". DOF preview is on the front of the camera too.

[colinl]

Well I've done it. Stuffed if I know if it was the right choice. I've wanted the D300s for a while and in the end this is what finally one out. As good as the specs are on the D7000 I know the D300s will still take nice pictures and I have more confidence that the AF system will be nice and quick and the build quality proven (not that I think the D7000 would suffer much in this regard).

While I was at it I ordered a SB600 flash as well, so it will be a long few days ahead I think.

[Eberbachl]

EDIT: Never mind the post below... just read your last post... well done ;)


Forget about dead pixels and soft focus ;)

You're starting to pay too much attention to Internet myths propagated by forum experts with too much time and not much idea ;)

Either the D7000 or D300s are great cameras... you'll love either one. Go buy one and take some pictures already.

:D


I've got to say, I'm struggling with this. Normally I'm pretty sure footed when it comes to making a purchase. I don't think I've given this much thought or effort into buying any of our houses over the years, yet alone a car, or perhaps even a motorcycle.

Has anyone heard of a dead pixel or soft focus problem on the D7000? I guess they have been selling them by the truck load since their release, so a couple of duds would be expected. These things can gather their own momentum these days with the internet and sometimes minor concerns get blown out of proportion.

[colinl]

Stories can certainly develop a momentum of their own on the net. This one wasn't that much of a concern. There are a stack of happy D7000 owners around here.

I thought either way would get me a good camera, what I was struggling with was which would suit my needs best, as they were very similar prices. I don't get to buy a camera often, but then none of do I suppose :)

[N*A*M]

congrats
i think the D7000 is hard to get and slightly overpriced at the moment, making D300s quite a bargain

the D300s is a helluva camera so don't even think twice about what could've been with other choices
good move on the SB600 too

[farmer_rob]

Hope you like it.

[rellik666]

Roo, Why wouldn't you be happy with the d300s? The d7000 is not a replacement for the d300 series. IMO it lies between the d90 and the d300 in useability/functions. However, it has better tech than the d90 (more AF points, newer metering) and a newer sensor than both the d90 and the d300 (higher ISO, more MP). IMO, the d300s will be replaced before the d7000 and if the d7000 is a guide, the d300s replacement will be a great camera.

BTW, Focus Area and AF-A/AF-S/AF-C can be set by a button and the command dials (button is in center of Autofocus/manual lever on the front of the camera). You can program the ae lock to be "focus on". DOF preview is on the front of the camera too.

I understand that Rob, it seems the price point has brought the D7000 into direct competition with the D300s rather than the lower end of the market. All I was trying to say is that there are other things to look at rather than ISO performance at ISO 9million or whatever it is.....(and one a side note, i have never used anything about 1600 and then that was rare....how many everyday users need ISO whatever???), and pixel count....


i think the D7000 is hard to get and slightly overpriced at the moment, making D300s quite a bargain

Should have just said this......

[farmer_rob]

dpreview rate the d7000 just behind the d300s - . The price is distorted because the d7000 is new and the d300s has been out for a while - if you look at the RRP, I think you will find there is still a big gap in Nikon's eyes. Taking Nikon US's prices - as they are on the website - d300s US$1,699.95, d7000 US$1,199.95 and d90 US$899.95. $US500 premium for d300s.

[colinl]

It was the price aspect that fuelled my initial thoughts regarding these two cameras. I think that the impending up grade for the d300s may have impacted on pricing too and some places might be trying to move their older stock. The d300s that I've ordered was actually cheaper than the d7000's I was looking at.

[colinl]

Well the new camera and flash arrived. It looks and feels great! The battery is on charge and I'm on holidays for six weeks, so I'm really exited about getting out and using it.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.