Are you an EVIL Photographer?

[Kym]

Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens cameras, or otherwise know as Mirrorless Interchangable Lens Cameras (MILC),
are relatively new format of camera, yet the already command a 40% share of the new sales market in Japan. They offer many of the
advantages of an SLR or rangefinder camera, in a smaller package, and are superior to compact (P&S) cameras in almost every way.

More here:
http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?24359-Learning-Centre-Equipment-and-Software&p=709195&viewfull=1#post709195
(Thanks TOM for the write up on EVIL cameras)


Do you have an EVIL camera or are you contemplating buying one? :action: :D

[Ben]

I've used EVIL cameras, both older and new (Panasonic GH1). Although there has been a big improvement, there is still no replacement for physically looking through it all IMO. I'll be sticking with an SLR.

[Allann]

I have been looking at the Lumix GF2 or the Samsung NX10 but keep thinking they are still too expensive. I want something for my street candid shots as I find that the most challenging style of photography I've tried to date. Read this article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/five-reasons-you-should-ditch-your-dslr/ which describes them very well, and is a little more info about them.

[Xenedis]

I'm in Kuwait at the moment and I refuse to tell you what kind of camera I have...

[Lance B]

I am not an EVIL photographer, just a BAD photographer. :D

[Derek-C]

I have one coming for my wife.Sony nex 5 with a 18-200 lens.

She didn't want a heavy DSLR and this seems to be the next best thing.

Derek

[arthurking83]

I'd love to be an EVIL photographer too(one day) :devil6:

I'm not the die hard traditionalist type, and if a technology comes along and improves on a technology that's centuries old, then all the better I say.

Once they(the manufacturers) get their heads around the limitations of displaying a high dynamic range on a screen, I think they're EVF's will be the way forward.
At the moment the technology isn't mature enough, to interest me.

[atky]

I want one but just ordered a lens so it will have to wait

[Kym]

So where does EVIL fit?

My 2.2 cents worth... They will impact the following market segments...

High end P&S
Bridge Cameras / Super Zooms (EVIL will probably replace this segment)
Entry level DSLRs, esp for those who tend to use a DSLR in full auto

But while EVIL is essentially a 4/3 unit, has some shutter lag, and improvements occur in the electronic VF, DSLRs will still be there.

Who knows in 5 years time?

[TOM]

Thanks for posting this Kym. Couple of points....There is no shutter lag, and they are certainly being used in professional environments already. They are small, yet can outperform even the most expensive SFDSLR in the IQ department for certain applications. 4/3rds has its advantages over cropped and full framed sensors also....the Panasonic 20mm will outperform any lens that Nikon could throw at it, and the Voigtlander 0.95/25mm lens is one cheap and fast lens (about $13000 cheaper than the equivalant Leica). I agree that the format is still in its infancy, but Nikon and Canon will join the race soon, the market potential is too big for them to ignore. The biggest advantage is the ability to mount almost any lens, and this is where these cameras can leapfrog the bigger DSLR's in IQ.

[arthurking83]

I agree with some of the points TOM makes, I disagree about the lens comments.

A 25mm lens on a 4/3rds frame, is not the same thing as a 50mm lens on a full frame 35mm format camera.
While the V 25/0.95 is a noble attempt a redressing the shallow DOF shortcomings of the 4/3rds system, it most certainly is not going to produce the same shallow DOF effect as a 50mm /0.95 lens on a 35mm format camera either.

Forgetting the 25mm distortion effect that a 25mm lens will always produce, the Voightlander lens is akin to a 50mm f/2 (in 35mm terms) if shallow DOF using the widest aperture was a priority.

if compact size was a major influence for the operator, then there is simply no competition.... those Pen type camera's and their lenses .. RULE!

Kym, don't discount EVFs in high end fully professional cameras too!. The Sony translucent camera shows a glimpse of what can be done in terms of speed. A simple low end camera capable of 10fps(admittedly in some retarded low resolution mode).. but I can imagine high end Nikon D3 (for sports) or Canon 1DMk IV type cameras with 15-20fps, simply because of the non existence of the mechanicals of the mirror flapping about inside the camera.
I think it'd be a trivial matter for these manufacturers to increase CPU bandwidth or memory card write speeds to accommodate those speedy frame rates, but I think the engineers would be pushing stuff uphill to get the mirror mechanisms accurate and reliable to get that kind of speed in a traditional mirrored system.

I don't think translucent systems are an answer either. EVFs seem to be a better idea, with NO loss of light through to the imaging sensor.(I think the Sony is supposedly losing at least 1/3rd of a stop of light through that translucent mirror).

[fillum]

I'd like one if Nikon come out with something reasonable. I'd want it to be 'pocketable' and I'd also want a viewfinder (of any sort). Be nice to see a couple of 'pancake' lenses - a wide-angle and a normal FL.



Cheers.

[Big Pix]

........ I am just a naughty boy..... opps wrong section :rolleyes:;):D

[TOM]

Arthur, I agree, also most often I'm looking for more DOF when shooting wide open, so the 25mm is an advantage in that respect. I think the 0.95 successfully will negate the need to crank the ISO above 800. Arthur, if you check out the distortion charts on the Panasonic 20mm, you'll be amazed.

[Analog6]

I have been looking at the Lumix GF2 or the Samsung NX10 but keep thinking they are still too expensive. I want something for my street candid shots as I find that the most challenging style of photography I've tried to date. Read this article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/five-reasons-you-should-ditch-your-dslr/ which describes them very well, and is a little more info about them.

I'm keen on the GH1 or GF1 or 2, as well, but they are a bit pricey. My Lumix FZ35 is excellent for what it is but suffers the dreaded shutter lag (although very slight), so i want to upgrade it. But I do like the Lumix and I am used to their (initially) weird menu system now.

[TOM]

Odille, the Olympus EP1/2 has far superior JPEG's than the Panasonic, and it also has in body stabilisation rather than the in lens of the Panasonic. Worth considering, but mate it with a Panasonic 20mm.

[swifty]

I'm seriously considering a GH2 for hybrid functions but will probably wait out another generation for the GF and Pen style EVILs. I've tried the snap on evfs and they just don't do it for me. When they've improved the evf enough (ala GH series) and able to make it small enough to intergrate onto a GF/Pen style camera, then I'll bite.
But I don't see why mirrorless should be limited to miniaturizing DSLRs to compacts. How bout miniaturizing medium format to DSLR sizes to improve handling/reduce bulk etc.

[OzzieTraveller]

G'day all

Just a few thortz ...
Same as film has given way to digital, I can see the mirrored SLR giving way to a mirror-less EVF system, and I would guess within 5 years from now

I've been using SLRs for 40+ years now and EVF systems for the past 5-6 ... and I would rather shoot with the EVF these days ... very responsive to light & colour [tho in the dark of night it gets hard]

Give it time (as said above) and they'll overcome their current issues
Regards, Phil

[swifty]

IMO however good EVFs get (and I agree that it'll get very good in coming years, exceeding most of what an optical vf will do), optical viewfinders won't completely go away much like film never really went away.
But market forces will likely see a shift in what gets offered in the majority of products in the future.
I'm all for technology but I also appreciate the quality and 'feel' some traditional tools elicit.
It'll be interesting to see how the Fuji X100 performs..from memory it'll use an optical vf with an evf overlay. Best of both worlds???

[TOM]

A 25mm lens on a 4/3rds frame, is not the same thing as a 50mm lens on a full frame 35mm format camera.
While the V 25/0.95 is a noble attempt a redressing the shallow DOF shortcomings of the 4/3rds system, it most certainly is not going to produce the same shallow DOF effect as a 50mm /0.95 lens on a 35mm format camera either.

Arthur, further to this, a 0.95/25mm lens is going to be around 3 stops(!) faster than the equivalent DSLR shooter with a 1.4/50mm lens, 5 if you consider most DSLR user's shoot with zooms nowadays. Okay, so the first stop is easy, 1.4 vs 0.95. Then we take into account that the M4/3rds shooter can hand hold at least a stop quicker without that mirror slap, and finally we add another stop because we are going to have to stop down our DSLR lens to match the edge to edge sharpness of the standard lens fitted to the m4/3rds camera. We could argue that there maybe another half a stop due to the small size of the EVIL camera. Couple that with the extra DOF of the wider length, and that makes a great low light lens at ISO 800, rather than shooting with a 24-70 at ISO 25 600.

[TOM]

HERE (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/voigtlander_f095_25mm_micro_43_nocton.shtml) is a brief review of the 0.95/25mm.

[peterb666]

I have an EVIL camera. An Olympus E-P1. It isn't perfect but I use it more often than my Nikon D90.

I have the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 lens. It is a stunning lens. I got #3 out of the first batch of 10 in Australia and was probably the first to take delivery of the lens as the ones dispatched before me were posted out but I went in on Melbourne Cup day to pick mine up.

I can afford a 0.95 lens that gives me a normal field of view with my Olympus E-P1. There is no other system that will allow me to do that. In addition, I can pop the E-P1 and with 0.95 lens in the bag I take to work each day and it isn't a problem. The Nikon D90 is just a little bulky to get away with that.

I am looking forward to semi-professional MFT models in the compact rangefinder style coming onto the market. It will be the poor-person's Leica.

[cinvala]

I'll wait until I can try one, then I'll make a decision.

[johndom]

doh. maybe i should have read this before i voted. I jumped at the chance to say yes evil please. Buuut i wouldnt want one of those. I have a phone, a SLR and a good memory.

[ameerat42]

Bleeding Oaf, I would! (From the look of the polling so far, I could end up like this.:() Just waiting for Sigma to make one. Yeah, DSLRs are comprehensive, but you must always carry the bulk around. And what's the real need for a flapping mirror?
:om.

[Bax]

EVIL gravy for me.

I can't afford to buy another body, but when I do it won't be one of these. My thought was I could get my gf an EVIL camera if the lenses were compatible with my camera, but more likely would be that she gets my old body when I get my hands on a nice new one (camera body that is)

[mechawombat]

well the A77 will be one of these EVIL cameras with an EVF :eek:

However I will not succumb to the Alpha Nex it is just not my cuppa tea