New kit big lens choice (300-400mm)

[daniel5600]

Hey people,
im still fairly new here (introduced a few months back) but hope to start posting more and looking around a lot.
ive finally got my act together and buying myself a camera kit.

getting a 60D, im after a big lens for it and been scouring information and reviews, but interested if people here have opinions.

The choices...

Canon 100-400 4.5-5.6 L IS USM $1700
Sigma 120-400 4.5-5.6 OS APO HSM $900
Canon 300 4 L IS USM $1300
Sigma 100-300 APO HSM $1100

I will be using this a lot for motorcycle photography, then just other stuff.
Distance isnt a big thing, i dont need any more than 400mm, ive been shooting with a 200mm (not using full frames here). and thats just enough, so i think 300mm-400mm should be fine.

The two Canons are my front runners.
I love the F4 on the Canon 300mm, and since its a prime L, id suspect its sharper than the 100-400 at 300mm? maybe wrong? also the primeness of it could give me the shits over time.

I want it fast (dreaming of a Canon 400 2.8) but i dont have a lot of money (sorta 2k max)

Final thought, is the rumor of a new model Canon 100-400 going to come true in the next few months? cause im not in a hurry.

Rest of my kit so far is consisting of...
Canon 60d
Lowepro flipside bag
Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 tripod
Sigma 30mm 1.4
Sigma 10-20mm 3.5

[dulvariprestige]

Hi Daniel,
If you think that you might be limited by a prime, then maybe stick with a zoom, as primes are usually said to have better IQ, I prefer the convenience of a zoom in the telephoto range.
I owned the 100-400 for a few months this year, it's a great lens, has very good IQ, and the focal range and IS can be very nice, but I sold it and bought the sigma 100-300, that extra stop was worth more to me than the extra 100m and IS, as I like to use it shooting my kids league teams, so I'm trying to keep my SS as high as possible, the sigma is good wide open, but gets really good when stopped down to around 5.6, but I'll usually keep it wide open because that's why I bought it, if I kept it at 5.6, I'd might as well have kept the canon.
Now after saying all this, the 100-400 might suit you better, because if you're panning with bikes, you're aperture's going to be closed down and the IS will be beneficial at lower SS's, plus if you want to freeze the action, I think you'll be able to get a fast enough SS from this lens without having to crank up the ISO too far, especially on a nice bright day.
Anyway, I hoped this has helped a little.

[daniel5600]

Ok, thanks for the info prestige.

Unfortunately motorbikes dont move slowly, they move so fast that to get blur, you dont need to stop down or slow the shutter.
On my 200mm (on slight overcast days) ive been shooting at around 1/1200 shutter 400-800 ISO at 5.6. still i get the right amount of blur.

So thats why im leaning for that extra stop, the f4 i think would help, at least i could kick back the ISO a little then.

However, the IS could help just trying to track the bike in frame properly before i click the shutter.... hmm...... i hate decissions

[dulvariprestige]

Really, 1/1200th sounds a bit too fast for a good panning shot.

[daniel5600]

for panning yeah sorta, you dont get much background sideways blur, but you need the speed to get detail on the rider or bike.
at 1200 you still get blur in wheels, and at these focal lengths, the background will be out anyway, so its much nicer to be able to freeze the rider properly.

i tried for ages to slow the shutter for great panning shots, but its so hard to nail a shot like that, spend all day shooting for one or two decent shots. much prefer freezing the rider and bluring wheels.

[dulvariprestige]

I'm not having a go at you, but you don't need speed, you need more technical skill, and that comes with practice, sometimes a lot.
If you're happy with your shots that's fine, but if you want to get those perfect panning shots that you often see, you're not going to get them if you until you drop your SS.
Don't give up because it's hard, I'd rather walk away with a couple of great shots, then heaps of ok shots.

[daniel5600]

thats cool, i know what youre saying. but its not that im settling for a worse shot.
a panning shot of racing motorbikes isnt that spectacular. its side on and generally not very interesting. the real shots come from the bike coming at you or angled somehow, its seeing the eyes of the rider crystal clear, or catching the front wheel lifting or the rear stepping out, not necessarily seeing the whole bike, but freezing a certain part as it is at the edge of disaster.

i just find there are a lot more top quality shots to be had at faster shutter plus a better success rate. rather than spending all day getting a few side on shots with amazing sideways blur.

[dulvariprestige]

Ah ok, I now understand the style shots you're after, then out of the lenses you've mentioned, the 100-300 would probably be the one I'd go for.

[daniel5600]

haha cool, thanks.
might go try one out

[dulvariprestige]

Too bad you're not on the gold coast, you could give mine a try.

[daniel5600]

do you have some good shots taken with the 100-300 somewhere i can check out?

[dulvariprestige]

If you click on Flickr in my signature and have a look there, the last 20 odd shots in surfing are with that lens, also the two twin towns sets with coloured thumbnails are all taken with the 100-300.

[dulvariprestige]

Also the first 9 in skate parks are at f4

[daniel5600]

great thank you, nice shots

[carrg1954]

I's suggest you look at the new 70-200 f2.8 mk2.
The 100-400 make over is a wish many share. Who nows , Canon seem to be upgrading the heavy end at present so may be later 2011-2012 ?
I'd also try a 300 f4

[Roosta]

Hi Daniel, Given your location (sydney) I would susgest you could probally hire a say 100-400 and try it for the weekend, the Primes would be a wate of time I suspect, given you can cover different tracks/corners and the like with different focal lengths on the 100-400. Yeap as mentioned above the new 100-400 would be a great bargin, if it was to be retouched and released, but with that said, you say your not in a hurry, if it only cost you around $100-$150 for a weekend, and you get the shots your after, it might be well worth it.

[dulvariprestige]

The only problem is that the 100-400 is a 5.6, and I think he's after something faster.

[daniel5600]

Thanks guys, yeah faster would be nicer. im living in a dream world where Canon release a new 100-400 f4 twist zoom IS weather sealed lens in one month from now, but announce it today for say, US$2200

Roosta, do you know of places in Sydney i can hire such lenses to try out?

[Roosta]

Hi Daniel, Mate you could try this link, http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?69003-Very-annoyed-24-105mm-L-lens.. Scotty had drammas with a lens and he mentions a place on Castleraigh St, I think, It's mentioned in the link, they may be able to help, and or point you in the right direction. I haven't lived in Sidaknee for years, We have aplace in Perth, that hires alsorts of gear, so I would presume that you should be able to find one, maybe put it out there on the Canon forum, also, couldn't hurt to check the site sponsors, due to the fact your on the east coast, there are several big companies that are site sponsors, might be one near you.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

P.S, I know what your after, above mentioned fast glass, not always possible without the big bucks, The Sigma stuff is great gear from what I've read, Try dpreview.com and look under lens reviews.

On the note of hiring a lens, Camera Electronic in Perth.(http://www.cameraelectronic.com.au/rental.php) Here is alink to some of the stuff you can Hire if you live in the West.. You should be able to get the same in Sidaknee. On that note, If your keen to buy, Try STU at Quality Camera Sales in WA, He is a site sponsor, deals mainly in Canon, does great deals, and will deliver. Lots of Aus members have great feedback as do I for him and his prices.

Hope this is of some use.

[daniel5600]

Thanks Roosta.
Found a couple hire places for a Canon 100-400, but none of the other lenses, so cant really compare.
Ill keep looking around and thinking

[Roosta]

May be of some use to you./. http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-100-400mm-f-4.5-5.6-L-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

[Roosta]

Hi Daniel, Not sure if this mob canhelp you or not, came across link by accident. http://www.sydneylensrental.com/index.html

[daniel5600]

thanks roosta, i did find them in my google search. unfortunately they have 1 canon lens for hire.
theres a few other places i found also, but none of them have many big lenses, i found one with the canon 100-400, but thats it.

[Roosta]

When and if you try out the 100-400 let me know what you think, please. I will be getting something in the longer focal length my self in the not to distant future. My son plays rugby, the 70-200 F2.8 I have is good, and have recently got myself the Kenko 1.4 Teleconvertor, it will now reach 280mm at F4, so not to bad, but would like the next step up. I wont need it as fast as it sounds you would like, to get the shot of the rider clear on the bike must take some steady hands and some practice.

[daniel5600]

i have had a brief play with the canon 100-400 before, not enough for detailed analysis though.
they seem to get high reviews from everyone, great all round zoom lens, the question i guess is if its worth $900 more than the sigma equivalent.

5.6 isnt bad either at 400mm, the stabiliser seems to be fairly good. not a huge fan of the push pull zoom though.

and yeah, bikes are bloody hard to get right, they are seriously fast.

[Roosta]

Daniel, Just checked out this http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/store/product.asp?idProduct=1957, will be price matched in Australia by a C R Kennedy authorised Sigma Australia outlet. As you say, $900.00 cheaper. Well worth a look. Also on same page is the new http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/store/product.asp?idProduct=2867, still a close Fstop 4.5 - 6.3 but better focal distance, still cheap when you can get price matching in oz, also add to that internal focus, no lens creep which would be an issue with canon, also the secondary ring for zoom operation Tight - Easy comes into play. Got me thinking now...

[daniel5600]

Thanks Roosta, good to know someone will price match.
I dont expect retail stores to 'match' grey market prices, but if they could get close, i would buy locally, right now, a lot of stuff is outrageous at retail stores, especially since the US dollar is so high.
Ill check out C R Kennedy, ill be buying about 2 or 3 new lenses over the next few months.

Im pretty sure ill go for the sigma 120-400, its sooooo close to the canon for IQ anyway, and ill spend the extra money on some more glass.
The 50-500 isnt bad either, but i just dont need that kind of range on an apsc chip, it is a bit more expensive and heavier as well.

[Roosta]

Thanks Roosta, good to know someone will price match.
I dont expect retail stores to 'match' grey market prices, but if they could get close, i would buy locally, right now, a lot of stuff is outrageous at retail stores, especially since the US dollar is so high.
Ill check out C R Kennedy, ill be buying about 2 or 3 new lenses over the next few months.

Im pretty sure ill go for the sigma 120-400, its sooooo close to the canon for IQ anyway, and ill spend the extra money on some more glass.
The 50-500 isnt bad either, but i just dont need that kind of range on an apsc chip, it is a bit more expensive and heavier as well.

Called them yesterday, and was a little suprised, called my local shop here in Perth, and they had a lens advertised for the aussie price, I mentioned that I had read the price match from CR Kennedy and had a price of DWI, My Perth shop matched on the spot.

Well worth asking the question mate.