What to upgrade!

[sprocket]

Hi! Currently have a 450D twin IS kit.

Wanting to upgrade lens/flash. Specifically I will be shooting nighttime events in conjunction with my DJ business! So from house parties/21sts/sporting functions ect. Lots of low light/indoor/nighttime shooting with DJ lighting ect in the background.

I assume the most important thing is a Speedlite? A new lens would also be nice (been looking at the 17-70?) but the 18-55 does do a decent enough job.

any advice appreciated!

[unistudent1962]

It sounds as though you're pretty close to the subjects you're shooting.
If that's the case and you want to stick with Canon, a 430EXII flash should handle the job comfortably.
You should be able to pick one up for around $350. After haggling I got one from Hardly Norman last year for $330 including 4 quality NMHi batteries and charger.
There are other 3rd party flashes available but I have no experience with them.

A faster lens also helps in low light. Something like a Canon 50mm f1.8II should only set you back about $100. Just remember you have to zoom the old fashioned way..... moving closer or further away from your subjects!!!
If money is no object, you'll find lots of positive comments on here about 17-50 f2.8 lenses, both Canon and 3rd party.
Hope this helps.

[RaoulIsidro]

16-35mm f2.8L will cover those venues nicely. The fast aperture will capture the ambient colours of the gig. A 430 EX II will provide good fill flash. Don't get the 270 EX, it is poorly designed and lots of problems with annoying focus pre flash. The 220 EX is actually a better bargain at less than $99 on eBay!
Good luck!;)

[sprocket]

Cheers so far! The 430 looks like it might be a winner, found a few for 300ish on ebay! Budget certainly is an issue (for the next few months while im still full time uni, atleast) so the 16-35mm looks a bit out of reach!

[Bercy]

Even with e-TTL, I think you get overexposed faces most times. At night venues I tend to get a bit further away with flash, at the mild telephoto end. I 420EX. Get the flash off the hot shoe and onto a extention grip. In night clubs bounce wont work because of the dark or coloured walls. Card bounce or minisoft box like Stofen - essential! I think a medium zoom with F2.8 would be a good option, so that you can get some shots with the image created by the ambient lighting rather than pancaked by a flash!

[sprocket]

Been able to find a cheap few 480's on ebay from US sellers, taking advantage of this awesome exchange rate! Now for lenses, probably another few weeks away for me.

What should I be looking at? Wouldnt wanna spend more than 600 :Doh:

[GoldZilla]

With lenses in an environment like you'll be working in, it's recommended to get something with a wide (and preferably constant) aperture. The Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 or the (more expensive) Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 should both suit your needs.

Or if you're on a super-tight budget and want something sooner rather than later, snap up that Canon 50mm f/1.8-II prime lens (and a lens hood to suit) if you don't already own one.

[sprocket]

Are the 50mm prime lenses more of a pain though having a fixed focal length? I could see it being annoying...but are they worth the effort? And ill notice quite a difference between the 17-55 f2.8 and my current kit lens?

[unistudent1962]

Are the 50mm prime lenses more of a pain though having a fixed focal length? I could see it being annoying...but are they worth the effort?

I assume that you may often be in spaces where you don't have much room to move around.
If this is the case a prime lens may not be the best choice, as the only way to change the framing is to reposition yourself in relationship to the subject, in other words physically move closer or further away. With a zoom lens you can do this, to an extent, by zooming in or out in order to better frame your subject.
That said, the price, image quality, and the fact that you'll be 2 stops better off (ie 4 times as much light getting through to your sensor at maximum aperture) than you are with your current kit lens may make it worth the effort.


And will I notice quite a difference between the 17-55 f2.8 and my current kit lens?

The image quality will be much better than the kit lens, and at about 1 stop faster will let twice as much light hit your sensor at maximum aperture, so you should see quite a difference between the two lenses.

As I said in an earlier post, you should be able to pick up an Aus Stock 50mm f1.8 for about $100, compared to about $750 (third party) to $1600 (Canon) for a 17-55 f2.8.

[sprocket]

Cheers for the feedback. Maybe ill zoom my current lens to 50mm and not touch it, see how it goes! for 100 it would be worth a shot i suppose!

[GoldZilla]

Cheers for the feedback. Maybe ill zoom my current lens to 50mm and not touch it, see how it goes! for 100 it would be worth a shot i suppose!

That's not too bad an idea, but if you'll be shooting in a club where it's dark you'll have to bump your ISO up to compensate for the fact that the aperture @ 50mm on your kit lens will be up around (roughly) f/5.0 at its largest opening.

[sprocket]

And I'd be able to keep a lower ISO with a 50mm f1.8 rather than the kit lens? Correct? Still figuring a lot of stuff out! :D

have ordered the flash, so will hopefully play around with that soon and see what results I can get.

[dulvariprestige]

I've never really done this, but wouldn't a flash take away the look of your lighting and kill the ambience, if you need faster than 2.8, and a 50 1.8 is too long, maybe look at a sigma wide angle prime, 20, 24, 28 or 30.

This was taken with a canon 50 1.8 on my 7d, ISO1600 @ 1/25, I think a flash would've ruined the shot.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/5074264445_fe0a46ee21_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dulvariprestige/5074264445/)Where's wally (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dulvariprestige/5074264445/) by dulvariprestige (http://www.flickr.com/people/dulvariprestige/), on Flickr

[sprocket]

Yeah definatly, some times a flash will ruin a shot and I suppose other times would help. ^ Cool photo! The 50 1.8 does a good job..

[Bercy]

The 50mm F1.4 Canon is a great lens - but I have yet to use it extensively. Even where there is space, sentient photographic subjects generally give you a weird look if you are moving backwards and forwards to get the correct framing. You are hardly going to have a conversation about prime versus zoom with a bunch of happy people in a night club, as you walk backwards to get a great shot, fall down a set of stairs, smashing into some girl, who spills her drink, couldn't give a flying rats about JB and Coke seeping into the crevices of your camera, whilst her new boy friend thinks its a good time to demonstrate his machismo on your solar plexus. Get a 2.8 zoom - or a prime if you have good medical benefits. Have fun deciding!

[Roosta]

Sprocket, The 17 or 18 to 50 - 70 F2.8s are great lenses, Tamron-Sigma and of course Canon, but you say budget a bit tight, Canon might'nt be your option. A lens with zoom I feel will give you better useability and the F2.8 and learning to use set ISO will only benifit your shots. I just picked up the Sigma 18-50 F2.8 for Under $400, Ball tearer of a lens.

So, in saying that the 50 is also a great lens, but the non-fixed focal lens would also be user friendly as a day to dayer.
You could do away with the lower zoom kit lens.

The flash's I would say you have the right advice from above, but ISO EXP and a good lens are the musts. Not sure in Perth where you are, but there is a great store in Nth Perth. Sterling St, they carry lots of gear and will let you try stuff out before purchasing. Sell to the beginner and Pro alike.

[dulvariprestige]

I really think you might struggle with 2.8, especially with the 450d, 1600 ISO is the probably limit I'd like to go with that body, for example, if I'd taken that same shot @2.8 I would've been around an 1/8 sec (I think) @ 1600ISO, even if you keep the camera steady, you'll get subject movement, I still think a 30 1.4 would be wide enough, and that'll give you 2 stops over a 2.8.

[sprocket]

Haha Bercy! That had me laughing! You make a good point though, and after testing my current lens at 50mm and not moving it, it would be a pain to shoot gigs with. Perhaps ill see how I go, and then save some more once uni is over for the semester! dulvariprestige you make a good point about the 450's iso limit.

Maybe ill go to that store you suggested Roosta and have a play around! I'd rather pay more now than want to upgrade an average lens later on.

Thanks for all the help!