When a company wants to buy one of your images:::

[KillerTimbo]

Hi folks,

I'm only pretty new here and post pretty infrequently so far, but if you wouldn't mind - I've got a little favour to ask...

I've started a little company recently selling photos I've taken at sporting events - nothing major, just shots for Mums & Dads who want a pro shot of their kids - think of it as a paid hobby, just enough for me to pay for all my new glass and gear. Anyway, to cut a long story short, one of the sports I shoot is BMX racing, and a couple of the pro riders' sponsors have been asking to buy my shots, outright. Unfortunately, their terms - time owned, what capacity, or, how much they'll pay is all part mystery at this stage. One of the riders, who's only contacted me himself, has shown me his company website's page (http://jetblackproducts.com/gallery/johnnyw), his company wants to use it for. (the example at the website link is that banner photo with text composited underneath)

So, how much? Having a brief look through those pages, they seem to have a fair few photos in their galleries, so I can't imagine them saying yes to anything upwards of $200 for a shot like that. It's all gravy for me - taking these shots is a labour of love, so it hasn't really costed me anything in terms of expenses, apart from my inital goal of making enough to buy more gear.

I guess the fundamental question is when it's a stock photo or landscape photo - there's less value than in a shot where the subject is one of your star sports representatives...

Cheers in advance. :)

[knumbnutz]

hey Killer,

Between $100 - $300 would be fair.

They best thing is to negotiate the best price.

Congrats. !!

Cheers Neil

[kiwi]

I think for the useage mentioned you'll be lucky to get $50, but try for more

[KillerTimbo]

Hey thanks for that guys - the more I think about it, the more I don't think I'll be asking too much. I reckon it'd be a good thing to get them back asking for more. Especially because the photo in question was just shot with a crappy kit lens, and since then I've added some substantial glass to my collection...
Thanks for looking Kiwi. :)

[kiwi]

If you want future better paid work it would be better to give this one for free, and charge full whack next time...if you lowball it you've just set your ongoing rate

[Wayne]

If you want future better paid work it would be better to give this one for free, and charge full whack next time...if you lowball it you've just set your ongoing rate

While I tend to agree here, by giving it away, it says you don't value the work you put in all that much, and sets the bar low for the next one you want to charge for, assuming they ever want another one from you.

[Longshots]

While I tend to agree here, by giving it away, it says you don't value the work you put in all that much, and sets the bar low for the next one you want to charge for, assuming they ever want another one from you.

I wish there was an opposite of "Thanks" (which I would like to place on Kiwi's comment). However Wayne is on the money here. While Kiwi surprisingly isnt IMHO. If you dont value your own work no one will.

[Sheila Smart]

Whatever you do, don't give it away. With respect, if you give it away with the intent to charge them later for further work, it just will not happen! You will be marked by the customer as someone who does not value his/her work and is open to freebies. Start where you begin to carry on. $200 - $300 for web use is about average BUT you should ensure that this is for a year's use, not in perpetuity! You should also factor into the price the ability to pay.

You state that you have started a business selling photographs but then you say It's all gravy for me - taking these shots is a labour of love, so it hasn't really costed me anything in terms of expenses, apart from my inital goal of making enough to buy more gear ...hmmm.. that's not a good attitude to start a business! Photographers are lucky in that most still enjoy their work and they can combine business with pleasure and get paid for it.

Sheila

[kiwi]

its how you sell free....you have to set it up with the expectation of further paid work..

To me if I sell something for $50 that's the set value next time....if I provide an image for free as a teaser that's another thing entirely

[Sheila Smart]

its how you sell free....you have to set it up with the expectation of further paid work..

To me if I sell something for $50 that's the set value next time....if I provide an image for free as a teaser that's another thing entirely

Pricing images has all to do with its use, its duration and, if in print, its circulation. One size certainly does not fit all:). Are you saying that if you set a website pricing at $50.00 then that is what you will charge for, say, commercial use on a billboard, the next time. No, of course not. If you charge zero, and then the same client wants another image, how do you justify charging him X amount the next time. If you originally charged him, say $100 then he knows what your ballpark figure is and won't expect anything less. You can always negotiate down but never up. Maybe I am missing something here as I don't quite understand your logic, Kiwi:)

Sheila

[kiwi]

I get all that - but I am talking of this particular useage for this guy's website of him on a MX bike, not carte blanche in general where I quite agree with you

[Longshots]

its how you sell free....you have to set it up with the expectation of further paid work..

To me if I sell something for $50 that's the set value next time....if I provide an image for free as a teaser that's another thing entirely


Darren that is very optimistic logic. Let me ask you this, if your theory works, then how succesful has it been for you ?

People want information based on - a very personal view coming up - what they expect to be experience. And not idealistic concepts.

If its free, then there is no value - simple. And I dont see it as a teaser, I see it as free, "here have it, not worth anything to me, so take it".

Darren, did you read, really read the question, because there is a few pointers, that you clearly missed - here let me underline them for you:


Hi folks,


I've started a little company recently selling photos I've taken at sporting events - nothing major, just shots for Mums & Dads who want a pro shot of their kids - think of it as a paid hobby, just enough for me to pay for all my new glass and gear. Anyway, to cut a long story short, one of the sports I shoot is BMX racing, and a couple of the pro riders' sponsors have been asking to buy my shots, outright.

So, your suggestion to give the image away, is off topic and nothing to do with what the OP actually asked.

The PRO riders sponsors - they have funding, they're doing it for a living
Asking to BUY the shots -

now which clue is missing the target here Darren ?

And did you also misread the title of the topic ?

So enough of some very odd logic about give the images away, because thats not what the OP asked.

Quite honestly, as I said earlier, if the photographer isnt going to value what they produce, how on earth do you expect anyone else to value it. And dont kid yourself that they'll appreciate you doing it for free, they wont, because then someone else will be there to fill the gap of the free giveaway photographer.

I make no apology for my next very personal opinion - and that is that anyone can give away their work to be used for commercial purposes, it takes a little more effort and skill to get someone to appreciate and respect the value you place on what you produce.

And BTW I've already offered in a pm to the OP to call me so I can give them some down to earth advice on what to potentially charge.

[kiwi]

It is my personal experience, only taken this road three times, so, yes, it worked for me. Does it work for you ? Maybe not, for him maybe not - so what -it's still a valid approach if approached with the right marketing behind it. In my opinion a much better approach than making up some number and hoping it flies.

As for offtopic couldnt give a rats, never do.

[JM Tran]

It is my personal experience, only taken this road three times, so, yes, it worked for me. Does it work for you ? Maybe not, for him maybe not - so what -it's still a valid approach if approached with the right marketing behind it. In my opinion a much better approach than making up some number and hoping it flies.

As for offtopic couldnt give a rats, never do.

bad attitude. There are a lot of of beginners and amateurs seeking advice and if u are one of the more experienced members on AP, they might actually take your advice seriously, but god bless Longshots for replying above, otherwise they WOULD have taken your advice more seriously.

But in your case your replies were more of a personal experience/opinion, then actual advice - which is 2 completely different things.

[Keith]

I think another key point the op made was that "a couple of the pro riders' sponsors have been asking to buy my shots". So would be be a good idea to just ask them what their budget is? If they are a serious purchaser of photos they will have a figure in mind, if it is too low just reject it or get them to go higher. Also ask if it was just that one photo they like or is it your work they like? You could do a deal, like x number of photos for a much larger price then just 1 photo.

[kiwi]

eh ? yeah, fine.

Forget it. My personal experience and advice can be dutifuly ignored, discarded or rejected.

[James T]

Shooting for free can and does work. You just have to judge it yourself. I've done it before and it directly lead to tens of thousands of dollars worth of paid work.

In this case I'd probably just go for the 'standard' rate up front, there are lots of places out there with guideline prices for similar usage.

[junqbox]

Why not do some research on image library sites like Getty or Shutterstock and see how much they charge for online usage of sporting type shots. Keep in mind, you buy a 1 year license through them, not perpetual use of an image. So at the end of the year, if they want to keep using it, they have to pay again.
Worst thing to do is give it away for free, better off charging, even if it's not a lot.

[Longshots]

eh ? yeah, fine.

Forget it. My personal experience and advice can be dutifuly ignored, discarded or rejected.

I dont get why you're so adamant about this ? - the OP didnt ask about giving it away for free.

Clearly they have decided on the option of selling it.

They want advice on how much? So best answer that question eh?

[kiwi]

Ok, make it 1c

The point obviously badly made is to present the file as an act of good faith in expectation of paid work in the future, just that one self admitted crappy image. It's how you market it to the guy, not marketing it as a free ongoing throwaway free photo.

Just an idea as opposed to 20, or 50, or $200


Maybe you don't think it's a good idea, but hey, it's a free world and not all business ideas pay off, it's how you sell them

[Longshots]

I cant see how you would "sell" by giving away something for free ?

Any (and I've been holding back saying this), fool can give something away for free - it takes some skill to place a value on something - THAT is selling.

Giving something away for free is not selling an idea, its simply not selling Darren.

Falling for the "do it for free the first time and we'll pay the next" is one of the most used cynical scams of the photographic world.

Again I'd remind you of what the OP asked - out of curiosity why do you keep ignoring that point ??

[kiwi]

I dont get why you're so adamant about this ? - the OP didnt ask about giving it away for free.

Clearly they have decided on the option of selling it.

They want advice on how much? So best answer that question eh?

I did answer that question thanks in my first post, $50 bucks

I'm not talking about selling the image, it's about selling yourself

Anyway, we can disagree

[Redgum]

Storm in a teacup which obviously shows a lack of experience by most people here to negotiate. Whatever price you concoct has nothing to do with the outcome.
The whole concept of selling revolves around supply and demand. If you have something of value that the purchaser can't get elsewhere you will get a good price. If not the price will be low.
What you need to do is find out from any potential buyer how important your product is to them. Hey, we do this with houses, we do it with cars or just about anything of value, even your camera when you upgrade. It's called market force.
Don't be embarrassed by setting a price but just make sure you can justify it at the point of sale. Two factors to consider are what it cost and uniqueness. Don't go below cost, the real cost of taking and processing the photo (travel, gear etc.) and the chance of the customer getting a similar photo for less. If it's really unique or can't be done again then you can command more money. Your experience and what others have done has no bearing on the issue. The product already exists.
Now, if the customer tells you to bugger off you'll know better next time (experience) but you've hurt no one, least of all yourself. If the cash is in your hand tomorrow then consider a higher price next time. But next time will be unique, again experience.
Once you've done it for 30 years you'll get the hang of it or be so wealthy it doesn't matter. The principles won't change though. :)

PS: It doesn't matter what William charges or what Kiwi charges, or anyone else for that matter, they haven't got your photo so they can't compete.

[Longshots]

Storm in a teacup which obviously shows a lack of experience by most people here to negotiate. Whatever price you concoct has nothing to do with the outcome.
The whole concept of selling revolves around supply and demand. If you have something of value that the purchaser can't get elsewhere you will get a good price. If not the price will be low.
What you need to do is find out from any potential buyer how important your product is to them. Hey, we do this with houses, we do it with cars or just about anything of value, even your camera when you upgrade. It's called market force.
Don't be embarrassed by setting a price but just make sure you can justify it at the point of sale. Two factors to consider are what it cost and uniqueness. Don't go below cost, the real cost of taking and processing the photo (travel, gear etc.) and the chance of the customer getting a similar photo for less. If it's really unique or can't be done again then you can command more money. Your experience and what others have done has no bearing on the issue. The product already exists.
Now, if the customer tells you to bugger off you'll know better next time (experience) but you've hurt no one, least of all yourself. If the cash is in your hand tomorrow then consider a higher price next time. But next time will be unique, again experience.
Once you've done it for 30 years you'll get the hang of it or be so wealthy it doesn't matter. The principles won't change though. :)

PS: It doesn't matter what William charges or what Kiwi charges, or anyone else for that matter, they haven't got your photo so they can't compete.

John - a rare event :) I completely and 1000% agree with you :) Wise words indeed, and well worth repeating all of them.

[kiwi]

Yip, agree.

[KillerTimbo]

Thanks for all the hearty discussion folks! Been pretty busy and haven't had a chance to reply as yet... i think I've decided on $100. You can't really compare it to stock photo pricing because the photo is actually the of 'product' itself, ie. the sponsored rider. I've mentioned to him that I'd only be too happy to photograph him seperately for a much better result. The shot in question (I don't actually know which one he's after yet) will have been during a race, where I can't really get on the track with him. I think $100 for outright ownership (I don't really care about length of license - these guys only really have short careers anyway) is enough for me to give the impression of good value, professionalism and the prospect of future work. Thoughts?

[warhammer]

agree.. that was a bit of a major. i need a rest ...

[Rod038]

I would be interested to see how it all works out.