Selling photoshoot images - Help!!

[emma]

Hi all,

I'm photographing a Deb ball soon and I've given a price and all the copyright stuff etc.

However they have now come back and asked how much a license is for reselling the pics.

Can anyone help me with this? Where do I start?

[I @ M]

More info please.

Who has asked for a price for on selling the images to who

[emma]

So have I!!

I've asked them what their plans are, but I thought in the meantime, whilst I'm waiting on a response, I'd do some research.

When I get more info, I'll gladly share it!

[ricktas]

How about joining in more on AP. You have been a member since April and come online to get our advice. How about giving something back and doing a few critiques. After all this is a forum and members like others to interact, not just use the site to get answers from occasionally.

[ZedEx]

Personally, I would deny 'them' the option of accessing the rights to the images. Means you lose quality control over your work, and you'll likely make more money from selling prints and album packages. It also depends on your own skill levels; are you taking pro quality shots, with a degree of consistency between all images in a shoot, and between shoots in general?? If you're an enthusiastic amateur it might not be feasible to handle reorders and all the backend work that goes with managing a proper shoot.

[emma]

Thanks for the info. Rick, just so you know, I've always been lurking around the area, however find that I don't have much advice to give to those who ask questions. And, I've also had to go back to full time work, so I haven't been around much on forums at all.

Interesting attitude...

[Longshots]

Emma, who has the interesting attitude" ?

I think Rick's point is pretty valid. To be reminded of the concept of what a community forum is pretty reasonable. I've always believed you only get out of life what you put in.

I can assure you that that approach is fairly common on many forums. You have an opinion, Rick is offering or encouraging you to contribute it,


Back to your question - if you want some sensible advice/opinion, give us a little more information - ie are you being paid to shoot the ball ? If so are you being paid to provide images, or are you relying on print sales to make the event financially worthwhile.

[ricktas]

Thanks for the info. Rick, just so you know, I've always been lurking around the area, however find that I don't have much advice to give to those who ask questions. And, I've also had to go back to full time work, so I haven't been around much on forums at all.

Interesting attitude...

My attitude is "give and you will receive".

So you are shooting Deb photos, but don't have advice to give others who post portraits, seeing you are paid to take portraits. Maybe a critique or two would be appreciated by others, by someone who has your experience as visible on your website (http://www.emmarhoades.com/).

[Longshots]

Emma, who has the interesting attitude" ?

I think Rick's point is pretty valid. To be reminded of the concept of what a community forum is pretty reasonable. I've always believed you only get out of life what you put in.

I can assure you that that approach is fairly common on many forums. You have an opinion, Rick is offering or encouraging you to contribute it,


Back to your question - if you want some sensible advice/opinion, give us a little more information - ie are you being paid to shoot the ball ? If so are you being paid to provide images, or are you relying on print sales to make the event financially worthwhile.

I cant understand someone suggesting that "you deny them the option of accessing the images", without knowing that information. If you did deny them the option of accessing the images - what are you meant to show them ?

[ZedEx]

You misunderstand my post, re read as 'deny them the option of accessing the RIGHTS to the images'. I believe this is totally valid. From the extremely limited information provided, I take the assumption that whoever 'they' are, want access to distribution rights to ALL of the images as a whole. What price should Emma put on losing rights to all the images? That's why I would like to know what skills she has. What we also need to know is how many couples you will be photographing etc. It's a very subjective question :p

edit: apologies to Emma, I have now taken the effort to look at your website. So you have skills and are set up to take these sorts of images it would seem. Still need a few q's answered though to give a decent quote :)



I cant understand someone suggesting that "you deny them the option of accessing the images", without knowing that information. If you did deny them the option of accessing the images - what are you meant to show them ?

[MarkChap]

Hi all,

I'm photographing a Deb ball soon and I've given a price and all the copyright stuff etc.


So I think, could be wrong, but this statement here about copyright could have a huge impact on what you are entitled to after the event.

You say "I've given a price and all the copyright stuff etc"
Sounds like you have a contract of some sort in place, so who owns the copyright by your agreement with "them" ??

[MarkChap]

Thanks for the info. Rick, just so you know, I've always been lurking around the area, however find that I don't have much advice to give to those who ask questions. And, I've also had to go back to full time work, so I haven't been around much on forums at all.

Interesting attitude...

You are producing the work evidenced on your website, but don't have much advice to give here.
That I can not understand, I for one would quite happily accept any feedback from you ??

[Lost Dog]

I agree MarkChap. Emma, you have qualifications in photojournalism but don't have much advice to give? People on here with no qualifications but much experience give a heap of help to new members like myself. With some more time under my belt I hope to be able to help out too.
Col:confused013

[kiwi]

Give the girl a break. Don't give advise if you don't want to

[MarkChap]

Fair call Darren,

[Gremlin]

I have nothing to offer in regards to copy right,
I agree with Darren a & Mark, but looking at your site, love to know how you setup/shot a couple of them :)

[emma]

Ok all,

firstly, thankyou for taking the time to read and reply to my question. To give a little more info about it:
I've set up a contract that allows the deb association to use the images within their advertising, providing they have model releases from the people in each shot, however they do not have the right to resell the images. So we came up with a price for all of this and that was accepted.
Now, I have received an email back asking me how much the right would be to resell the images. I have asked for more info, but I thought I would post and see if there is a website that someone may know about to get me started in my research.

Which brings me to the second point about me joining in. What I meant about an interesting attitude was that Rick, you didn't give me a chance. I was locked out of this forum because I hadn't posted in 90 days, which meant that I couldn't even see the critique area. So when I came back to lurk around and try to particpate, there was no other area or posts that I thought I could comment on.

So I came back wanting to be part of the community and ready to engage with others and help out where I can. This was my first post back so that I could unlock all the other areas. I'm not sure if you noticed or not, however after I posted this, I did actually go and comment on someone elses post and give advice as I felt that I could help them out.

Back in April, there was no way that I was confident enough to give advice on others shots and I am still asking for critique on my own shots.

Your comment got to me because Rick, you have no idea about the type of person I am, what I came here for and you never even gave me a chance.

Thanks again to everyone else - much appreciated.

[ricktas]

Which brings me to the second point about me joining in. What I meant about an interesting attitude was that Rick, you didn't give me a chance. I was locked out of this forum because I hadn't posted in 90 days, which meant that I couldn't even see the critique area. So when I came back to lurk around and try to particpate, there was no other area or posts that I thought I could comment on.

So I came back wanting to be part of the community and ready to engage with others and help out where I can. This was my first post back so that I could unlock all the other areas. I'm not sure if you noticed or not, however after I posted this, I did actually go and comment on someone elses post and give advice as I felt that I could help them out.

Back in April, there was no way that I was confident enough to give advice on others shots and I am still asking for critique on my own shots.

Your comment got to me because Rick, you have no idea about the type of person I am, what I came here for and you never even gave me a chance.

Thanks again to everyone else - much appreciated.

Thanks, but I do not provide Ausphotography for FREE so you can lurk, and get information from members, without participating, which is why the inactive status kicks in. Ausphotography is a FORUM, which by definition, means joining in! Your backhanded go at me with this statement "Thanks again to everyone else - much appreciated", is not a good way to go about endearing yourself to the site owner. You went inactive due to your own inactivity, so I hope you now remain an active member, and give back to the others as well.

[emma]

And I can understand that Rick. However, what I mean is that when I came back with the intention of being an active member, you post your comment, basically telling me to go and post elsewhere before you will help me.

And I don't join a forum so I can endear myself to the site owner.

[ricktas]

I have had my say, you understand what we like members to do, here on Ausphotography, now it is in your hands.

[Longshots]

Ok all,

firstly, thankyou for taking the time to read and reply to my question. To give a little more info about it:
I've set up a contract that allows the deb association to use the images within their advertising, providing they have model releases from the people in each shot, however they do not have the right to resell the images. So we came up with a price for all of this and that was accepted.
Now, I have received an email back asking me how much the right would be to resell the images. I have asked for more info, but I thought I would post and see if there is a website that someone may know about to get me started in my research.



OK Emma

Many have suggested that you should dive in and give it a go of adding to the forum - so take my word for it, that you'll benefit more by jumping in with a comment now and then.

So lets move on eh ? :)

OK I still dont have enough information to give you any sensible advice. OK when you say that you've set up a contract, does that mean that they are paying you to be there, or are you shooting the deb association (scuse my ignorance but can you elaborate on what that is exactly ? I can assume, but prefer not to. My assumption is that its a separate company that produce the management for a debs event - if so, I've been in exactly this position in the past).

If I correctly understand the position, and assume that they're paying you, the question from them seems reasonable. So, your choice is:

A) to accept that they're paying you, and it was their intention or reason to get you to shoot so that they could always use it as a commercial tool to increase their profits - and if thats the case, you might be on the end of the attitude that if you dont agree to do it, another photographer will.

or

B) to accept that they're paying you, and that you will stick to your original agreement, and no one else can buy the images (which is a waste, because their would be and is a market for the print sales after/during the shoot)

or

C) to accept that they're paying you, and you offer to put the images up on your own website or have them available immediately on the night. Which might go against their intent and they might end up charging you for the ability to take the shots in the first place.

or

best of all/my choice

D) to accept that they're paying you, allow them to manage, resell, and print production themselves, and you take a percentage (50-50 or 60-40 - thats in their favour, they have the costs) of each recorded print sale. They get the main challenge of handling the print sales, and you add to your profits.

How does that sound ?

[jasevk]

Emma, to answer your query... if I were you I'd tell whoever wants the license to sell your work to stick it... if other people want to buy your work why can't they go directly to you?

[Longshots]

if other people want to buy your work why can't they go directly to you?


Because that might be the very reason for the organisers are commissioning a photographer.

Like I said, more facts/information are required.

[jasevk]

OK... now having actually read William's post thouroughly (i'm slack - i know)... his option D seems ideal.... Although your revenue may be lower... it's almost ALL margin - can't really lose with that approach can you?

[Jamie Paterson]

Hi Deb,

Seriously, I wouldn't be giving up my rights to anyone. Don't feel pressured into doing so.

[Longshots]

What rights ?

[kiwi]

This is sort of the thing that I do a bit of re sport carnivals....with option D as well, I'll call it Option E, no more than 20% cut back to them and only after a certain $ value of gross sales and this is on the basis that I manage the fulfilment so that I manage the orders and quality - they just do a passthrrough from their website to mine....much easier this way as then you inherit the customer relationship and contact for future opportunities

Really any business model is good if it presents good value to you, them and the parents

[ricktas]

What rights ?

very true, we do not know the details of the contract entered into so far, and for portraiture, the rights (copyright) belong with the person commissioning the shoot, in many circumstances.

[virgal_tracy]

Emma, to answer your query... if I were you I'd tell whoever wants the license to sell your work to stick it... if other people want to buy your work why can't they go directly to you?

I tend to disagree with this to a certain extent. Everyone has a happy price for what they offer. If they want the rights then you go back to them with your "happy" price which would probably be slightly higher than you think you could make from print sales.

The organisers then have the option of saying yes or no to that price. Either way you win.

(all of this is based on general assumptions of what the contract looks like)

[kiwi]

good point, with event shooting its always best to get as much up front in the pocket, expecting residual spec sales is a high risk proposition

[emma]

ok, that makes sense. I'm already getting paid for my time to travel, take the photos and process them. I was going to do up packages for the deb and family members to purchase directly from me as it's all set up on my website to do so.

However, they have just replied back that they were asking in case any other family members wanted pictures of the debs. So we now need to organise if they want to pay extra for a license to sell my pics and keep all the profit, or they just direct people to me to purchase directly.

Thanks for your help - now at least I know where I can start!

[Longshots]

Now I know that info, I would wonder why they want the additional work. Why not just keep everything with you if the viewing and ordering process is available on your website ? Maybe the organisers are just being overly organised and you just need to assure them that their question is already covered by your own ordering work flow?