Photography Career Advice

[Duane Pipe]

Hi guys. I really need some honest advice. My normal occupation is in the construction industry as a boiler maker/ Pressure welder, I had to leave my last job due to body aches and pains, As a result Centre Link wanted proof of why I left my full time job? So off to the doctors I go, Many tests later reviled that I had a torn tendon in each shoulder as well as rotor cuff injuries(shoulder Joint), 4 worn disks in my neck I also have a Knee injury and tennis elbow. I am only 43 and Centre Link has put me on a part disability pension and its really starting to get me down as I can't find work, I live in the Latrobe valley where jobs are scarce, Could I make photography my new career, As it is one of my favourite pass times PLEASE HELP. Regards Dave....... :confused013

[jasevk]

Well, I'm sure you'll get alot of different replies to this Duane, and initially alot of questions! I'm sorry your injuries have forced this upon you.... hopefully centrelink and workcover are nice to you!

- What gear do you have?
- What type of photography would you want to provide services in? Keeping in mind that if you want to do things like weddings... your injuries may make this difficult
- What experience do you have in the type of photography you're interested in?

These are probably only a few of many questions you may be asked before we can start giving you some sound advice.

[kiwi]

I think it's a very very tough industry to work FT in Duane...anything's possible but i wouldnt mortgage my house on a FT Pro career, and I have all the gear and probably enough experience to do it

[ricktas]

Dave,

firstly YES you can, but be prepared to work hard and possibly for little real return to start with. If you do not have any skills in accounting and marketing, see if the local tafe etc runs some courses on MYOB, learn about tax. Do a marketing course. All these things will stand you in good stead. Being a professional photographer is only about 10-20% about taking photos.

[Duane Pipe]

Thanks for the feedback. At the moment jasevk I only have a canon 450d twin lens kit + 150x500 sigma, I am still in the learning stage but am willing to advance through courses and so forth to improve my skills as a photographer, Why not try to make a career of something one enjoys. ricktas I have no marketing skills But I have an ABN and worked as a taxi driver where I learnt basic accounting skills, not myob, although I have the program I never learnt to use it. Thanks for the help. Regards Dave. Ps kiwi, I have nothing to lose..:)

[kiwi]

Maybe ring up the local pro and have a chat to him about the local market too

[rogklee]

You could try, but you'll have to be really good.

Unfortnately your gear isnt the best, however, you might have the skill to compensate. If you're going pro, I rekon you'll need to spend a bit on some decent glass first though

[I @ M]

Seriously Duane, knowing the 'Valley's history pretty well and then the reputation of a few of the photographers down that way I would say that you are about 3 years and $30,000 short of being in business.
Hang in there if you really want to do it but don't expect to be driving a new Ferrari this time next year, come to think of it a new Kia might be out of reach as well.

I am not being nasty, simply realistic and honest.

[Keith]

Also while you are learning see if there is a niche market that hasn't been discovered. As there are only 30,000 people in your town, and a few photographers there already you may need to find a different angle.

[GerryK]

Definitely yes. It will be hard work of a different type to what you have done previously.
Look around for opportunities. I used to pick up work (10 years worth as a second job during the 90's ) for car magazines and from people wanting to sell (cars, houses, furniture). The world has moved since then but people will always pay for good work with a creative angle.
You will also need to work hard on building Raw developing and PS skills.
The other side is a business is equally important - marketing, advertising, account keeping and the part that generally brings people down.

Good luck.

[dbax]

no reason you couldn't have some prints made up and hit the local markets, see what sells and what doesn't, it might be a way to ease in, and earn some pocket money. It might also give you an idea if its really what you want to do FT or keep it as a hobby while earning some dollars.

[Redgum]

To be honest Duane there is no arts based occupation that is full time be it photographer, cinematographer, painter, whatever, particularly not in the beginning. Set your mind on developing a number of skills and earning from each of them. If they're related that's even better.
All our famous people have second and third jobs, it's the nature of the business and quite unlike being a boilermaker or clerk. It took me 10 to 12 years to build self sufficiency and enough skills to set me up for life in the photographic and television trades and I'm yet to see anyone do it quicker.
The two important ingredients are focus and perseverance with a touch of good luck and lots of help from your friends. :)

[jjphoto]

One of the biggest problems many photogs face is the devaluation of the photographic service itself. What I mean is that almost everyone has a digital camera these days and almost everyone can take a half decent photo. This alone has reduced the need to pay any one else to take a photo for you so the market has effectively shrunk (but to different degrees depending on the quality of the work being paid for). The reason I mention this is that this also has an effect on the rates for any work that is out there. I'm not suggesting you don't give it a go but unless you have some thing truely special or different to offer then there really isn't a significant likelihood that you would earn a living from it but that doesn't mean that you can't make some extra money out of it.

Maybe you have some special skills, an eye, ideas that are unique and valueable, but maybe it will take a while to find that out.

Good luck
JJ

[Duane Pipe]

Thank you all very much. I see how it would be such a hard field to get into. You are right JJ every man and his dog has some form of digital camera these days.I did a Google search and found that there are a few full time as well as 1 off jobs for photographers. these included real estate, automotive, Santa, school photographer and so forth. Some are actually offering a very good celery. Thanks again. Cheers Dave:)

[ricktas]

Yeah Dave, you can become a pro photographer, it is still a career path. Just don't run head-long into it. Get your skills up (start showing us some of your work), work towards getting better gear, you will need a couple of camera bodies (what if your camera breaks down, mid shoot), a range of lenses so you can cover the various subjects that people may want to pay you for. Whilst accruing the gear and skills, do your research, check out the local photographers, see if there is a gap in what is offered by them. Get yourself a business plan. One way to go is work out how much money you want to make in your first year, and work backwards, get that down to how much you then need to make in a week to reach that target. Start investigating advertising costs, insurance costs, etc, how much you need to spend on printing for clients. Then divide those yearly totals down to weekly amounts. After all that is done you know how much you need to earn in a week, to pay the bills and make the total you wanted (from above). That gives you a point at which to work out your charges for clients.

Go and talk to the local photo labs (if there are any), find out what they charge for all their different sized prints, look at online printing options. Find out about canvas printing prices, photo book and albums. You need to be able to provide a full service to your clients. Researching and having this knowledge up-front means you look more professional to your client. For example, you get a prospective client, during the discussions they say 'oh, what would it cost to get this photo done on a canvas -this- big"? If you already have a canvas price guide available, you can get it out, show the client and they likely to accept the offer. But if you go, "Oh canvas, I would have to find out and get back to you on that", the client straight away knows that you do not do many canvases and it puts you behind the guy up the road, who yesterday told the same person exactly the costs for canvases.

So all up my post is about, work! Work at getting everything in place, photography skills, editing skills, gear, presentations, prices, branding, business contacts. Create a business plan! Act Professionally! Research will be your best friend as you start out.

Those with the best plans, and right skills, to start with when setting up a small business are those most likely to succeed.

One thing you could do before all of this is a SWOT analysis. You have to be honest with yourself here.
* Strengths: attributes of the person or company that are helpful to achieving the objective(s).
* Weaknesses: attributes of the person or company that are harmful to achieving the objective(s).
* Opportunities: external conditions that are helpful to achieving the objective(s).
* Threats: external conditions which could do damage to the objective(s).

Using these you can see where your strengths are (seeing you were a taxi driver, verbal communication is probably a strength for you). Weaknesses (you have admitted you haven't used MYOB or similar). Opportunities, what do the local photographers not offer and why, is there a market available that is sustainable and not being targeted? Threats, Is the market already saturated with photographers. Is their a risk that a major employer in the area will downsize dramatically sometime in the near future, which would affect your market?

[Duane Pipe]

Very good advice Ricktas I like what you have had to say.:th3: At the moment all I can do is improve on my photography as I can't afford new gear yet, that is a long way off, But that will give me the time needed to do the ground work. e.g. research Marketing, create a business plan, find a style that's unique to me (if that is possible).. and so forth. I will be near retirement age by the time I hit the scene:lol: Thanks once again for every bodies input.:) I might go to Walhalla today to see if I can find some interesting subjects, I will post some pics soon.

[kiwi]

Id try in the interim to look for opportunirties working at a pixie photo or even a photo lab so you can use other people's gear and get some industry experience, if you can

[Fantasyphoto]

Sorry to hear of your predicament.
Another avenue you may wish to consider is freelance photography but you will need very good all round photographic skills and also the equipment (and I mean pro gear with backup) as well as the ability to take charge of the situation (e.g. shooting kids sporting teams).
There are a lot of lower end photographic companies looking for contract shooters and freelance provides them with the ability to get the job done without the cost of pro gear or wages and also the ability to instantly ditch a photographer they are not happy with…. Yes it can be a cruel world and your income with be based on the results you can achieve usually under difficult circumstance.
Some areas to consider are:

1/. Sporting team and individual portraits… this is mostly winter work early in the morning.
2/. School formals Years 10&12… end of year (October/November) at night using a portable studio.
3/. Sporting events… athletics and swimming on weekends.
4/. Real estate… premium properties, early morning and late afternoon.
5/. Dance Eisteddfod… evenings and weekends.
6/. School portraits… weekdays

I made a living for five years working for seven different companies all at the same time but you have to be prepared for the weird hours, too much work one week and no work the next. When I decided to remarry I gave it all away and went back to office work as the freelance did not allow any sort of social life.

It also took me quite a while before I started enjoying photography again.

[Fantasyphoto]

Id try in the interim to look for opportunirties working at a pixie photo.....

As a male don't bother applying for jobs photographing very young children or babies as you will be wasting your time. Despite the laws relating to anti discrimination based on gender you will not be considered for these positions.

[Dan Cripps]

It all depends on what sort of remuneration you seek in response to your full time endeavor.

Of all the thousands of professional photographers in Australia, only about 5% are taking home the current average Australian salary. That means only 1 in 20 professional photographers are even hitting an average income.

In context, it means that 95 out of every 100 professional photographers don't make an average wage.

The truly remarkable aspect to those somewhat scary statistics is that the quality of work produced doesn't generally equate to those who earn well and those who don't.

It's business first and foremost.

[kiwi]

Hi Zeke, where diod you get those stats ? Im interested

[Dan Cripps]

Hi Zeke, where diod you get those stats ? Im interested

A well connected photographer friend who conducts photography business seminars across the world has accessed the research fairly recently. I would have to have a chat to him to get the official source documentation, but what he has told me matches every anecdotal instance I have come across both here in my market and across the rest of the country.

Basically, when done right the rewards are there but the vast majority of operators never seem to make ends meet.

[kiwi]

i guess im interested to know if the research is talking about ft photographers

[JzB]

Im no pro, however I do an advocate anyone that wants to follow their wishes, because nothing is impossible, well maybe becoming an astronaught... sorry where was I?

One piece of advice which I havent seen dispensed yet (amongst a lot of great comments) is that you need to work on your strengths. I hear you ask "what do you mean?" Well take a look at your trade and many years of experience in that industry. You must have a lot of contacts... now think how you can integrate that into you choice for the future:umm:

Industrial Photography? Maybe consider offering some of your many contacts some marketing material (start of cheap or free?)

I am continually amazed at industrial companies who use photos which they have snapped away themselves in their brochures, websites, proposals... the list goes on.

Sometimes all it takes is a sample to help them understand how much better they can look with a half decent picture (and eventually many great images). Remember the old saying, "A picture is worth a 1000 words".

So in a nutshell... draw on your strengths, consider what you have beyond the majority (there is always something) and use that to propell yourself beyond the competition.

Good Luck! :th3:

[Steve Axford]

It all depends on what sort of remuneration you seek in response to your full time endeavor.

Of all the thousands of professional photographers in Australia, only about 5% are taking home the current average Australian salary. That means only 1 in 20 professional photographers are even hitting an average income.

In context, it means that 95 out of every 100 professional photographers don't make an average wage.

The truly remarkable aspect to those somewhat scary statistics is that the quality of work produced doesn't generally equate to those who earn well and those who don't.

It's business first and foremost.

That certainly fits with my perception of things. I once looked at becoming a professional photographer, but soon came to the realisation that I could make more money doing other things. For me to continue taking the photos I liked taking I was best to not worry about the money. If I happened to like a field of photography that did make money occasionally - great. But I have learnt not to rely on it, nor to rate photos on how much money they make.

I think I'd change your last statement from "It's business first and foremost" to "It's all and only business". I can't see that anyone(except the rarest of the rare) relying on photography to pay the bills can really worry about anything except what the customer wants. Most of us here are lucky because we don't rely on photography for anything. We can focus on skills and artistic stuff that is only of value to the pro when it produces more in sales.

[Jorge Arguello]

Hello Dave:

I am sorry about your injuries, specially that they stop you from your main support activity.

I consider your question very sensitive. I don’t have a big advise (the above ones are really good!) than share my point of view that applies to any professional area:

The easiest and cheapest way to start any business is when you already have one client. It helps you to drive in the initial path, and the recommendation for the next client.

I wish you all the best on any activity you chose, especially if it is photography related.

[Redgum]

I think I'd change your last statement from "It's business first and foremost" to "It's all and only business". I can't see that anyone(except the rarest of the rare) relying on photography to pay the bills can really worry about anything except what the customer wants. Most of us here are lucky because we don't rely on photography for anything. We can focus on skills and artistic stuff that is only of value to the pro when it produces more in sales.

Steve (and Zeke) you're both spot on. You need a good handle on business and you can buy the talent if necessary (tog).
It's interesting to read through this thread and see how narrow most are with their perception of photography as a profession. Weddings, studio, prints, sport etc., are generally areas that suffer the greatest failure rates but there are more lucrative gigs. Doing photos for mags and newspapers can easily turnover $3k a week, often a lot more. Corporate and government work (low end) can achieve $5k to $7k per week and as you get experience with your business model you can move up the ranks and treble that income with high end publishers etc. If you turn over $1million per year, which is not hard if you do your homework, your take home is going to be around $200k per annum. It only took me about five years to get there and photography is my second string to filmmaking.
Like Rick said, the skill is in the planning and getting your tail in the air and actually doing something.
All the ideas you've seen so far are useful but in the end you have to do the yards and decide how to tackle the issue. What you do as a profession is not important, the same rules apply for any endeavour.

[Duane Pipe]

Thanks for all the replies guys , at the moment I haven't got time to go through them. I will check back later. cheers Dave...:)

[Duane Pipe]

Gooday. As for the for the income from photography, It would be great to make the wages that you speak of Redgum, but for now anything above Centre link payments would be a good start for me. Fantasyphoto, yeah your dam right" You can't even take pics of your own kids at school concerts now days. Flexi renting new camera gear might not be a bad idea as it is 100% tax deductable, and I would say courses also. The advice and information you guys have given is fantastic and encouraging. I have looked at some tafe cources,they have a basic marketing course that gets you started, A very basic camera course, But I have no doubt that I would learn more here.. Thank you all again Cheers Dave...:beer_mug:

[RaoulIsidro]

Sorry to hear about your injuries, Dave.
Photography as a business or profession may also be physicaly demanding, and you should also consider this aspect.
A wedding may take the whole day and into the night. Equipment IS heavy, even with an assistant on tow.
A wedding photographer mate of mine retired prematurely because of a troubled back injury due to lugging gear. He switched to studio and product photography.
Another mate had his 1Ds gear fail and was forced to use the 5D back up. Unfortunately, the 5D backup didn't have the battery grip and he was forced to take about 300 images with his right hand above the head. The next day, his right shoulder was aching like hell. And he was a pro!
There is a physical demand on certain types of professional photography. Being diagnosed with injuries may limit the amount of service one could provide for some types of photography.
But just like the old radio DJ said: "Keep that dream alive."

[Redgum]

A wedding may take the whole day and into the night. Equipment IS heavy, even with an assistant on tow.

Another mate had his 1Ds gear fail and was forced to use the 5D back up. Unfortunately, the 5D backup didn't have the battery grip and he was forced to take about 300 images with his right hand above the head. The next day, his right shoulder was aching like hell. And he was a pro!

Gosh! My wife carries more in her handbag than a wedding tog. :D
Yeah! and isn't that typical of Canon? :o

[Duane Pipe]

I know what you mean Raoul. My job network provider specialise in getting people with injuries back into the workforce and they haven't provided me with a solution as yet.The majority of the work here is either profissional, trade, retail or labour. We have a small industrial area but thats mostly trade related and heavy work, Driving full time is out because of neck and shoulders. that dont leave much for a bloke that is not well educated, so thats why im thinking photography. Thanks Mate...

[kiwi]

Here's the thing, doing photography professionally is quite physical...,lots of gear and very heavy pro grade cameras and lenses around your neck. Lots of crouching, kneeling etc

For event work I strap 4kg on one shoulder and 8kg on another shoulder

It may not be the physically soft job option unfortunately

You also will need to be damn good at business and artistically gifted also

Good luck

[RaoulIsidro]

and isn't that typical of Canon? :o

Hands down. No contest.:Doh:

[Steve Axford]

Steve (and Zeke) you're both spot on. You need a good handle on business and you can buy the talent if necessary (tog).
It's interesting to read through this thread and see how narrow most are with their perception of photography as a profession. Weddings, studio, prints, sport etc., are generally areas that suffer the greatest failure rates but there are more lucrative gigs. Doing photos for mags and newspapers can easily turnover $3k a week, often a lot more. Corporate and government work (low end) can achieve $5k to $7k per week and as you get experience with your business model you can move up the ranks and treble that income with high end publishers etc. If you turn over $1million per year, which is not hard if you do your homework, your take home is going to be around $200k per annum. It only took me about five years to get there and photography is my second string to filmmaking.
Like Rick said, the skill is in the planning and getting your tail in the air and actually doing something.
All the ideas you've seen so far are useful but in the end you have to do the yards and decide how to tackle the issue. What you do as a profession is not important, the same rules apply for any endeavour.

I think the key is, as you say, to be good at business first. Then you search for something you can sell. It may be photography or involve photography, but the key is starting as a business. Learning photographic skills is probably way down the list of things you need to do and, as you again say, you can always hire those skills - and probably at a very reasonable price.

[farmmax]

If you are interested in trying to generate some income from photography, reach out and go for it.

Not so much for all the reasons given by everyone else, but simply because being on even a part disability pension and dealing with Centrelink is soul destroying. Even seeking the dream of being a full or part time photographer will probably have enormous mental benefits.

Wring every bit of support out of Centrelink you can - courses in particular.

Good luck, and many good wishes.

[Steve Axford]

If you are interested in trying to generate some income from photography, reach out and go for it.

Not so much for all the reasons given by everyone else, but simply because being on even a part disability pension and dealing with Centrelink is soul destroying. Even seeking the dream of being a full or part time photographer will probably have enormous mental benefits.

Wring every bit of support out of Centrelink you can - courses in particular.

Good luck, and many good wishes.

I agree. Maybe it will just be a fill in, but it's good to do something while you looking. And, who knows, you may find a market for the photographs.

[Longshots]

Dave - in all honesty, there's little point in people talking about what can be achieved in relation to how much someone can potentially earn. This is a little bit like putting money on the horse and cart race, before anyone's seen the horse. What would be far more helpful for you - prior to discussing heading off into an industry with great ambitions on earning potentials and the like - is to show some examples of your photography first.

[bigdazzler]

Im no FT professional but I can tell you that on the rare occasion I shoot a wedding I feel like I could sleep for three days after, and need a good foot massage. It can be very physically demanding.

[Gremlin]

Along with what Raoul said above I can totally relate, I have a pillar fractured C6 in my neck and nerve damage in shoulders, and cannot hold a camera without a vertical grip on it my arm above cam for 5-10mins gives me hell, if I want to go take pics for a few hours I have to ensure Im suitably "pain killered up" before hand. I know Ill never be able to be reliable due to weekly migraines and the car accident (not my fault!!) a month ago stuffed me even further. Not trying to tread on toes here, but just keep that in mind with your injuries that I can TOTALLY sympathise with, so going for paid work, keep in mind the reliability factor, one fallen thru job can stuff your reputation. Id love to be able to do studio work one day but my plan is not for at least 24more mths, well thats if the insurance company stop screwing me around getting me treated for a w/cover related injury sighhhhh So ive given up on the idea of tog as a career path. Just a obsessive hobby that maybe one day I can if my levels improve properly I could make a few bucks on but only if I get that good ;) So Im still partially at my day job, but I wont give up just yet, theres a mad scientist surgeon out there somewhere for me!! :)
Best of luck to you, I wish you well and just remember to enjoy your photography too!
Gremlin...

[Duane Pipe]

If you are interested in trying to generate some income from photography, reach out and go for it.

Not so much for all the reasons given by everyone else, but simply because being on even a part disability pension and dealing with Centrelink is soul destroying. Even seeking the dream of being a full or part time photographer will probably have enormous mental benefits.

Wring every bit of support out of Centrelink you can - courses in particular.

Good luck, and many good wishes.

I couldn't agree more farmmax and steve;)

[Duane Pipe]

Along with what Raoul said above I can totally relate, I have a pillar fractured C6 in my neck and nerve damage in shoulders, and cannot hold a camera without a vertical grip on it my arm above cam for 5-10mins gives me hell, if I want to go take pics for a few hours I have to ensure Im suitably "pain killered up" before hand. I know Ill never be able to be reliable due to weekly migraines and the car accident (not my fault!!) a month ago stuffed me even further. Not trying to tread on toes here, but just keep that in mind with your injuries that I can TOTALLY sympathise with, so going for paid work, keep in mind the reliability factor, one fallen thru job can stuff your reputation. Id love to be able to do studio work one day but my plan is not for at least 24more mths, well thats if the insurance company stop screwing me around getting me treated for a w/cover related injury sighhhhh So ive given up on the idea of tog as a career path. Just a obsessive hobby that maybe one day I can if my levels improve properly I could make a few bucks on but only if I get that good ;) So Im still partially at my day job, but I wont give up just yet, theres a mad scientist surgeon out there somewhere for me!! :)
Best of luck to you, I wish you well and just remember to enjoy your photography too!
Gremlin...
Gday gremlin im sorry to hear about your situation I know exactly how you feel, But where there's a will there's a way. I have an interest in photography so why not have a go. When you find that scientist let me know! you take care Gremlin

[Duane Pipe]

Here's the thing, doing photography professionally is quite physical...,lots of gear and very heavy pro grade cameras and lenses around your neck. Lots of crouching, kneeling etc

For event work I strap 4kg on one shoulder and 8kg on another shoulder

It may not be the physically soft job option unfortunately

You also will need to be damn good at business and artistically gifted also

Good luck

Hi Kiwi I could get some type of harness made up to carry the gear that way it would distribute the load more evenly, My lower back is ok so no prob there. Cheers Mate:)

[Fantasyphoto]

Hi Kiwi I could get some type of harness made up to carry the gear that way it would distribute the load more evenly, My lower back is ok so no prob there. Cheers Mate:)

A harness system is already available in the Lowpro range.

[Redgum]

Dave - in all honesty, there's little point in people talking about what can be achieved in relation to how much someone can potentially earn. This is a little bit like putting money on the horse and cart race, before anyone's seen the horse. What would be far more helpful for you - prior to discussing heading off into an industry with great ambitions on earning potentials and the like - is to show some examples of your photography first.
* Comment removed- innapropriate - Admin *. Duane's need is to establish his business credentials first and foremost. He needs to know if he can earn enough money to pay for all the gear he needs plus feed his family. Whether he takes good photos or not is important down the track but out of the realm of this forum to make judgement. You rarely see a commercial photo displayed here and I say that with all due reverence.
Personally, I know the photographic industry is highly competitive and even without a handicap survival is tenuous. Let's not fool anyone that may need to spend large amounts of money to pursue their dream.
Duane, spend a $100 and go and get professional advice on business before you do anything.

[Gremlin]

speaking of harnesses what about those harness shoulder things you can buy for using dslrs as a film camera(video) they might work for distributing load, I have a cheaper version of a steadycam unit, it has a full upper body harness with the springy doodat(back when i was into video work which Ive had to give up, another thing :( ) but I did find that unit allowed me to work longer as the harness and springy thing worked well. Theres another cheaper version that basically hangs from your shoulder.

[Duane Pipe]

I'm sorry William, that's so far from the truth. Duane's need is to establish his business credentials first and foremost. He needs to know if he can earn enough money to pay for all the gear he needs plus feed his family. Whether he takes good photos or not is important down the track but out of the realm of this forum to make judgement. You rarely see a commercial photo displayed here and I say that with all due reverence.
Personally, I know the photographic industry is highly competitive and even without a handicap survival is tenuous. Let's not fool anyone that may need to spend large amounts of money to pursue their dream.
Duane, spend a $100 and go and get professional advice on business before you do anything. Yeah I might make arrangements to see my accountant, Thanks Redgum

[wattsgallery]

Dave
There is some fantastic and inspiring advice on this thread. I think it is great that instead of mopping about your injuries you are looking at alternatives. I guess I am a risk averse person and have convinced myself that I could never replicate my salary by turning my passion into a business (but it is a decision that I question everyday I put on a tie and head to the office).

I think the comments about the focus on business and the physically demanding nature of the work seem pretty accurate from seeing friends follow this path. One area you might consider is your interest in the post capture photography process. To have a photography business (at least to begin with) you will need to get a good grasp not only on the taking of the photo but also the processing, printing, internet selling, and marketing. In fact this side of the work can take more time than the shoots in my limited experience.

While the shooting is physically demanding there is a lot of other areas of the work that you could try and excell in (if you have an interest for it) that could be a focus for your business. You may not be interested in these aspects at all (which is a bit of a worry to begin with) but if you are then it could be an answer to the concerns about the physical nature of photography.

Sorry my post is a bit convoluted but I hope you get what I mean.

Wish you all the best
Josh

[Duane Pipe]

Hi Josh I have recently got hold of Photoshop-CS5, Its a Big learning curve but I will master it!. If i do decide to head down this path (Photography) By the time i have a business plan and a marketing strategy worked out, I should also have my photography and editing skills up to scratch or thereabouts....
In the mean time why not try to sell on line, For example a Stock photography site, there would be a few members of AP that have tried ,surely. PS Should I start this in a new thread.:confused013 Thanks Josh...

[ricktas]

Stock libraries... Do not expect to get rich of them, have a look at these threads:

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=34063
http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=58640

[Longshots]

*comment removed - innpropriate - Admin* Duane's need is to establish his business credentials first and foremost. He needs to know if he can earn enough money to pay for all the gear he needs plus feed his family. Whether he takes good photos or not is important down the track but out of the realm of this forum to make judgement. You rarely see a commercial photo displayed here and I say that with all due reverence.
Personally, I know the photographic industry is highly competitive and even without a handicap survival is tenuous. Let's not fool anyone that may need to spend large amounts of money to pursue their dream.
Duane, spend a $100 and go and get professional advice on business before you do anything.

I cant understand why you think that view is so far from the truth ? To me its just so glaringly obvious. You clearly dont agree with it. Which is fine, good healthy discussion and views. But these are all views. Not something you differentiate between truth and lies.


Think of those American/Australian Idol entrants. Plenty of talent out there, sometimes exceptional, but sometimes there are a poor few who (the production loves and raises the ratings) who have never met with honest feedback, and thats the point. As a photographer of 35 years, speaker, and educator, I've seen some great talent, and I've seen plenty of people who have bought the "professional" camera, and the "professional" accompanying equipment and unfortunately they have had no grasp at all.

Now I'm not saying that Dave doesnt have any, but I'm suggesting hey if you want some good advice, some honest advice, then the 10 or 20% of effort in taking pics, which its already been suggested to be a "photographer" is still an important 10 or 20% - then its probably going to be more helpful to put up a few images to demonstrate what could be his full time career.

Considering that two other significant members thanked my comment, I dont think I'm alone in saying that could be a good starting point.

[kiwi]

I agree with William, big difference between running a photography business and being a photographer and I think the latter comes before the former, or at least I think it should

Duane, hate to be a party pooper all the time but stock is not going to help, you need high quality high volume to earn even a meager amount

[Duane Pipe]

Very informative, Thanks for them links Rick. I think Sheila has summed it up in one. You also said there is over 20 million images on Alamy" and that's just one site! It sounds like a very time consuming job, down loading ten thousand images just to make a buck or two, No thanks. Remember when we were kids" you could go to the local tip on your bike and fill up your bags with bottles and then take them to the milkbar around the corner' Those were the days, You could buy a pack of fags, fish & chips and even play the pinnies, sorry where am I:angry0: That was a great way to earn pocket money:umm: Sorry its a bit off topic, but I often think about that due to having a son of 7.. I would like to thank everybody that has replied to this thread ......

[kiwi]

Duane, not sure why you'd spend so much on cs5?

Best to start off simple, ps elements a much better choice, see if you can get a refund and do a swap

[Duane Pipe]

Duane, not sure why you'd spend so much on cs5?

Best to start off simple, ps elements a much better choice, see if you can get a refund and do a swap

Thanks for the advice Kiwi but I will keep it as I have also been experimenting with Maya and 3ds max for a while now and they incorporates the features of Photoshop, Just another learning curve to add to my list hay!, I suppose its an inexpensive way to kill time in between looking for work, Although since getting involved in AP I have been concentrating on photography. I formatted my computer a few weeks ago and the only major programs that are on there are paint shop pro 7, Photoshop cs5 and Digital Photo Professional which came with the Canon.Cheers Bro

[kiwi]

Inexpensive ? CS5 is not inexpensive....$1000+ more than your camera and lenses are worth probably ...just seems an odd investment to make for a new photographer

Never heard of Maya and 3ds max

[Kym]

CS5 is cheap(ish) if your a student

[JM Tran]

CS5 is cheap(ish) if your a student

gotta scan your student ID and/or timetable proof and email Adobe and wait for them to approve and activate it

its for full time students only, I dont think Duane is one hehe

[kiwi]

im sure it is cheaper, still exe though

[Dan Cripps]

CS5 is cheap(ish) if your a student

It's also not licensed for commercial use.

[bigdazzler]

gotta scan your student ID and/or timetable proof and email Adobe and wait for them to approve and activate it


you send off a scan of your student ID, to which Adobe simply responds (usually within the hour) with a serial number. You then enter it and activate the program just like any other. It is incredibly simple to get a student edition up and running ............. so ive heard ;)

and then theres the Academic/educational version ... that comes with a serial number in the box. No need to do anything at all.

[Duane Pipe]

Shop on the net as we all know that there are some bargain deals to be had. I paid much less than 1000 clams...:th3:
I found this job listed on the net, It sounds like a really good opportunity!
http://melbourne.gumtree.com.au/c-Jobs-other-jobs-Amateur-photographer-needed-W0QQAdIdZ219532983

[bigdazzler]

You will need to be competent in portraiture/fashion photography and proficient in the use of manual off camera flash and using multiple strobes to do that job the way it ought to be done. Can you answer yes to those questions ? If so, go for it.

[kiwi]

They want to pay an amateur ?

Isn't that ironic ? Lol

What they are saying is that might give you $50 but it will br great exposure for you so you should really for it for free and we are too cheapskates to pay for a professional photographer

What a joke

[bigdazzler]

that too ....

Im willing to bet its a student doing some kind of portfolio assessment or something.

EDIT: Actually, after rereading the ad, maybe not. Just sounds like theyre being cheap.

[Duane Pipe]

Sorry guys i was just pointing out that there are opportunities out there to help one get a bit of recognition. Cheers

[ricktas]

maybe a good opportunity for someone wanting a job, but the spelling errors in the ad are appalling, even a basic spell-checker would have picked up those. Professionalism in all aspects of business does not seem to be a criteria that their company adheres to.

[Duane Pipe]

maybe a good opportunity for someone wanting a job, but the spelling errors in the ad are appalling, even a basic spell-checker would have picked up those. Professionalism in all aspects of business does not seem to be a criteria that their company adheres to.
Well spotted ricktas, I went back for a took see, and Yep that is very unprofessional!

[JM Tran]

you send off a scan of your student ID, to which Adobe simply responds (usually within the hour) with a serial number. You then enter it and activate the program just like any other. It is incredibly simple to get a student edition up and running ............. so ive heard ;)

and then theres the Academic/educational version ... that comes with a serial number in the box. No need to do anything at all.

got a full time student ID Darren? :D

[bigdazzler]

got a full time student ID Darren? :D

nope ..... :confused013 :o;):D

[maccaroneski]

Never heard of Maya and 3ds max

They are to visual effects and computer generated animation what PS is to photography (i.e. the top of the line heavy hitting stuff).