Intermittent D700 Lens/Circuit Issue

[chamellieon]

Painfully, Yet another random issue has been occuring with my D700, and I took no notice of it until yesterday, when it reoccured from the first time that it happened....

The story below... this is the best way I can think of explaining it...
I'm going to take it to Andersons Camera in Capalaba when I can get a morning off to do so, until then, I'd rather like to discuss it, to see if anyone has any suggestions.

History:
November 2009 - Lens Mount Repaired (due to nasty fall)
January 2010 - Secondary Circuit replaced - due to something idiotic with firmware upgrade.

Issue:

Basically, while shooting, and usually when im doung some intense 200-300 shots per session kind of shooting, all of a sudden, randomly, the camera won't display the previous picture, won't focus and I can't use the back preview/menu/zoom in/ zoom out/ok keys along that side of the camera. This happens to any and pretty much all the lenses that I have - it seems to lock up the shutter mechanism. Basically, I took a look at it while it was occuring, and there's a pin on the LHS inside the mount that goes up and down when taking pictures. Turning the camera on, makes the half-shutter click and this pin to move as if im in Mup mode (but im definitely not) , and when I turn it off, it clicks as if its returning to normal. Kooky huh.

The fix for it, thus far, appears to be, switch it into Mup mode - click twice, once on, then once off, then remove the battery and the memory card for anywhere between 30mins - 1 hour - then put battery back in, memory card (new/different/old -i tried them all- doesn’t matter)and then, it starts working again. This leads me to think that its circuitry related - as during this time, any onboard memory would have to dump/stop its process and whatever is triggering it, would cease to exist.

Happened at abbey medieval festival a few weeks ago (july 11/12) and then three times yesterday. Aug 1

[bigjobs]

Sounds annoying, but given the fact that it's had work done on the lens mount before, it seems logical to me that the problem may be related to that?

Any warranty on the repairs at all?

Your D700 sounds like it's had an eventful life :)

[arthurking83]

..... Basically, I took a look at it while it was occuring, and there's a pin on the LHS inside the mount that goes up and down when taking pictures. Turning the camera on, makes the half-shutter click and this pin to move as if im in Mup mode (but im definitely not) , and when I turn it off, it clicks as if its returning to normal. Kooky huh.

.....

As I'm understanding it .. that 'pin'(is it a lever by chance?) is most likely the aperture prong.

As you look into the inside of the camera, on the LHS is a small lever right near the front of the inside of the camera.
This lever (physically)stops the lens's aperture down to the pre set aperture value that you've decided on.
It doesn't really have anything to do with the shutter, other than it has to operate quickly and efficiently for the shutter to operate as normal.
If there is a problem with the aperture prong then the camera will most likely not operate.

To see this thing work properly:**this is assuming you haven't altered the camera's DOFPreview button**
Take lens off. Have camera set to On and ready to shoot. No need to take a photo. If you press the DOFP button(upper button, on the same side, front of camera), this lever should automatically move downwards as if to stop the lens down. Because you have no lens attached, it'll confuse the camera, it may not work... so you may need to set a random lens value in the NON-CPU lens data field. Once you have a NON-CPU lens added to the list, it'll default to that value. It will flick down, with no lens attached as long as there is some Non-CPU lens data added to the camera(have no idea if it'll work with no NON-CPU lens data added) :confused013

The way in which lens work:
if you have G lenses, then all lenses when released from the camera will keep the aperture closed to the minimum size(largest number).
Ai/Ais lenses with no aperture control from the camera can be set any way you like.
CPU'ed lenses that have a manual aperture(ring), but need to be set to minimum aperture to operate correctly on the camera have both. because you need to set the lens to min aperture, the lens is always going to be stopped down, once removed from the camera!
You can then open the aperture up by rotating the aperture ring to the largest aperture(ie. smallest number).
The camera always tries to maintain the largest aperture value on the lens.. even though the lens's natural aperture position is to be closed down all the way.


The way in which the camera works:
lens(aperture) is automatically held wide open by the camera.(this is for the brightest viewfinder experience :th3: .. and better focus.. etc, etc).
Because the lens is set to be closed down(except for non CPU lenses), that prong inside the camera mount has the first say in how the camera works. If that prong is playing up, the camera thinks there's a problem. if the aperture is not going to automatically stop down to the value set, then the camera will think there is a problem. Most likely result is a 'stuck shutter'.

When the camera 'locks up' is the small green light at the back of the camera lit up?
If so, then it could be a buffer clearing problem.

Your fix is obviously not a workable solution.
Have you tried a simple lens removal. remove lens, remount lens?
Also.. this aperture prong should be safe to move by finger(I think.. I've done it a few times and my camera has yet to explode).
Next time the camera locks up, and it remains totally non-responsive until you implement your fix.... remove lens, flick prong down and let it release itself upwards(it's resting place is upwards). There is a small amount of resistance as it's servo/spring loaded. I would assume that if the camera is non responsive, then DOFP button is also not going to work.

Could be a servo motor(for the aperture prong) damaged by the fall, and is only now starting to deteriorate.

This one definitely sounds like a service department job!

ps. technically speaking(and as I understand the mechanics of it all) lens mount repairs are a separate job to this aperture prong. Where lens mounts will encompass stuff like the CPU contacts, screw drive for the AF lenses, the mount itself(the chrome ring). The Aperture prong mechanics are deeper within the camera body. Was the camera body itself damaged in the fall?

Also note: a long shot, but you never know. Along the very outside of the chrome of lens mount on the camera is an aperture indexing ring. There is a small tab located very close to the white dot(lens line up point), and just towards the centre of the camera. A teeny 3mm tab that also moves freely in an arc.
If this thing gets stuck(part of the lens mount) then you will get a Fee error message on the camera, if you have a modern lens attached.
This tab can be moved in an arc with your finger too(no damage).
What this tab does is that when you mount a non CPU lens and turn the aperture ring on the lens, it tells the camera what aperture value the lens is set too. Shouldn't really do anything with modern CPU'ed lenses attached(other than move that is).

Hope you get it sorted.

[chamellieon]

Firstly, thanks for a long and detailed reply, its refreshing to know that someone's out there trying to help out :th3:


As I'm understanding it .. that 'pin'(is it a lever by chance?) is most likely the aperture prong.

yes, it is this prong just inside of the silver ring, lowerset than the mount, and it does seem to be the aperture prong.


When the camera 'locks up' is the small green light at the back of the camera lit up?
If so, then it could be a buffer clearing problem.

no lights on the back- the top LCD displays settings before it "locks", but I cannot change any of the settings etc, its pretty much in the state of "okay im ready to take a picture, but I wont let you"


Your fix is obviously not a workable solution.
Have you tried a simple lens removal. remove lens, remount lens?
Also.. this aperture prong should be safe to move by finger(I think.. I've done it a few times and my camera has yet to explode).
Next time the camera locks up, and it remains totally non-responsive until you implement your fix.... remove lens, flick prong down and let it release itself upwards(it's resting place is upwards). There is a small amount of resistance as it's servo/spring loaded. I would assume that if the camera is non responsive, then DOFP button is also not going to work.

On site, these were the first things I did. test with lens. test without lens, take lens off, investigate the source of the "click" - in which case i see this aperture prong move down when turned on, and then go up when turned off. tried a different lens, dif and fully charged battery, dif, new and old mem card. I did play with the prong, trying to hold it up when i turned the camera on, but it did still want to go down and then up again.


. The Aperture prong mechanics are deeper within the camera body. Was the camera body itself damaged in the fall?

Andersons gave it the all-over, and apart from the "mount" damage- more info below - only some scuff marks on the very bottom part of the body near the battery door.


Also note: a long shot, but you never know. Along the very outside of the chrome of lens mount on the camera is an aperture indexing ring. There is a small tab located very close to the white dot(lens line up point), and just towards the centre of the camera. A teeny 3mm tab that also moves freely in an arc.
If this thing gets stuck(part of the lens mount) then you will get a Fee error message on the camera, if you have a modern lens attached.
This tab can be moved in an arc with your finger too(no damage).
What this tab does is that when you mount a non CPU lens and turn the aperture ring on the lens, it tells the camera what aperture value the lens is set too. Shouldn't really do anything with modern CPU'ed lenses attached(other than move that is).
Hope you get it sorted.

That's what got damaged last time! (highlighted in blue) (in the Nov 2009 fall) - the lens that I also had on it had to have some electronic contacts replaced, but the lens operates perfectly on my D300s etc. The part was physically $25 but the parts and labour made this all the more expensive.

Definitely seems as though Im going to have to go to a service tech, after the damage initially done in the fall, im so careful with the mechanics of it. Hopefully this is as simple as Andersons plugging it into their diagnostic machine and accessing its error log ((apparently this exists?)).

Coming from an IT helpdesk background/ troubleshooting etc - I'm caused to think that the issue lies somewhere in a circuit/ ram/ power/ battery issue, seeing as my silly little fix is: time and removal of power source and data storage. Time is something to which an onboard buffer/ ram cycle could deplete itself and power down to a complete stop, therefore allowing the camera normal operation on startup again - ie, "have you tried turning it off and on again" - but in a more painstaking kind o way.

The frequency of occurance, on one day, points to something requiring closer attention.
There has been no recent damage to my knowledge, environmentally, its been cold for qld weather, and the weekend was a bit of a warmer one.

Ill be sure to keep this thread informed of the progress, im very curious as to what's gone wrong this time, just hoping its not an expensive fix :S:confused013

[chamellieon]

Sounds annoying, but given the fact that it's had work done on the lens mount before, it seems logical to me that the problem may be related to that?

Any warranty on the repairs at all?

Your D700 sounds like it's had an eventful life :)

No warranty. Grey Import.
It's had a very eventful life, its definitely seen a fair share of all environments and thus far lived to tell the tale.