Camera Breakdowns Of DSLRs

[RaoulIsidro]

The amount of breakdowns involving modern DSLRs, specifically the shutter and reflex mirror box, made me realize that inspite of modern marketing mayhem involving more Megapixels, more FPSs, more ISO thresholds, more features etc… these camera manufacturers have failed to develop further the number one bread and butter of a DSLR: The Shutter Mechanism.
The shutter mechanism and reflex mirror box of any DSLR is the most run down component of the camera. It is also the number one cause of failure due to common usage, apart from external damage caused by liquids or physical shock.
I recall these shutter breakdowns never occured during the film era on SLRs.
It was then that I answered my own question:
Film SLRs flick the shutter only 24 to 36 times per roll…
Digital SLRs flick the shutter about 1,000 times on a good day of shooting.

[ricktas]

Ummm. what number of breakdowns? I personally know of one photographer who had one camera with a shutter issue. And I know a lot of photographers. This is not the ones on AP, just the ones I personally know.

As for flicking the shutter 1000 times on a good day, that depends on genre. I often can go out for hour and come back with less than 100 photos, sometimes only 30 or so.

I think you might be creating an issue re shutter failure that isn't really an issue.

[gerry]

This site has some statistics on shutter failures which you might be interested in. Not what I would call comprehesive data but interestign nonetheless.

http://olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

[Kym]

+1 to Rick's comment about genere. Birding & Sport - '000s in a day, landscape not so many.

@Gerry - Thanks! Interesting but I think not statistically sound.
Oleg's number are very skewed as its based on people reporting - mainly those that have had a failure - people without issues are less likely to care or post.
The ONLY numbers that matter are hidden by manufacturers - i.e. number of bodies sold vs # of actuations upon repair.

@Raoul - Again you post about gear and issues with little image posting (per my recent message),
I suggest you focus on photography not gear!

[Error99]

If you posed the question of who has suffered a shutter failure and who hasn't, the majority would be the latter.
The reason you hear about it is that the squeaky wheel makes the most noise.

When was the last time you heard someone complaining that their shutter hasn't died?

It's simple. Mechanical parts wear out. They don't have an infinite life.
Even people who baby their gear have shutter failures.

It's a non issue.

[ricktas]

If you posed the question of who has suffered a shutter failure and who hasn't, the majority would be the latter.


Poll added to this thread :D

[RaoulIsidro]

Poll added to this thread :D

Thanks, Rick! Great to have that poll... to have a gauge on the issue.

[RaoulIsidro]

+1 to Rick's comment about genere. Birding & Sport - '000s in a day, landscape not so many.

@Gerry - Thanks! Interesting but I think not statistically sound.
Oleg's number are very skewed as its based on people reporting - mainly those that have had a failure - people without issues are less likely to care or post.
The ONLY numbers that matter are hidden by manufacturers - i.e. number of bodies sold vs # of actuations upon repair.

@Raoul - Again you post about gear and issues with little image posting (per my recent message),
I suggest you focus on photography not gear!

I did!
(I hope this is considered as an image posting...)
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/digitalimaging/qtvr/Opera@Nite.mov

[Kym]

Thanks, Rick! Great to have that poll... to have a gauge on the issue.

Interesting, but statistically meaningless and therefore useless in understanding the (non) issue.

Eg. if you had a failure on a 3 year old body that had done 120,000 shots you really could not complain.
The only people with meaningful data are the manufacturers via warranty and repairs.

[kiwi]

I have several FT sport shooters, many of them go through one or two blown shutters a year, just the cost of doing business

I expect mine will go within a couple of years

I expect to pay up to $1000 to get a replacement or thereabouts

[Kym]

I have several FT sport shooters, many of them go through one or two blown shutters a year, just the cost of doing business
I expect mine will go within a couple of years
I expect to pay up to $1000 to get a replacement or thereabouts

What sort of actuation count do they get per failure?
That's the important question.

Does it meet or exceed the manufacturers shutter life expectancy?
eg. If a camera is rated at 100,000 and you got 120,000 then bonus, but if you only got 20,000 you would be not happy

[Calxoddity]

I've never had a shutter failure and don't personally know anybody who has.

Then again, I might do around 10,000 actuations per year, so 100,000 actuations as the design life of a shutter mechanism won't get any complaints from me!

[Error99]

I voted yes.
Personally I've done two, however they were both above the median number listed by Canon for those models.
I personally know several others who have done shutters as well, but all have been through being well used and just worn out as opposed to being a "failure"

To me a failure is when a shutter goes to heaven after minimal use, lets say less than 50k.
Anything greater than that in my book and it's been well used.
The problem is that it's not simply a case of comparing apples with apples because it depends on the model of the camera
A 1D MkIV will have a greater life expectancy than a 350d.
Would I be happy if my 1D MkIV died at 50K? Probably not, but I think I'd be relatively happy if I had a 350d (which I believe has a mean shutter life of about 80k) that let go at 50k.

Even though I've done two shutters, I still think it's a non issue.
As someone posted above, it's simply a cost that comes from taking lots of images.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction

Edited to correct typo's - sorry
Should proof read better before posting

[Art Vandelay]

It's probably only noticable as 'hobbyists' are actually reaching those shutter life limits on digital were they would have been nowhere near them on film.

[joele]

The only people I have known to kill shutters have taken more shots (well more actually) than the shutter was rated for by the manufacturer.

[Error99]

People are more likely to upgrade their camera body than it is to blow a shutter.

[kiwi]

Depends, Id be "happy" to spend $1000 on my D3 to have it live for three more years or so, I dont feel a compelling desire or need for the D3s at $6000 or the D4 at $8000

To answer you Kym, its luck of the draw, some have blown <50000, some over 300,000. Average is well above the "rated" shutter actuactions Id say

MORE GLASS

[Error99]

Depends, Id be "happy" to spend $1000 on my D3 to have it live for three more years or so, I dont feel a compelling desire or need for the D3s at $6000 or the D4 at $8000

To answer you Kym, its luck of the draw, some have blown <50000, some over 300,000. Average is well above the "rated" shutter actuactions Id say

MORE GLASS

Yeah I agree 100%.
May be I should have clarified it.
I probably should have posted "The average user/hobbyist is more likely to upgrade before the shutter blows

[reaction]

hm, never heard of such issues b4...

[Bear Dale]

I agree with the person who said most people will upgrade long before a shutter issue arrises.

[TOM]

compact cameras have an astonishing failure rate, as high as 6.2% (Canon), however I'm not sure how those figures stack up in the SFDSLR market.

[Scotty72]

Ummm. what number of breakdowns? I personally know of one photographer who had one camera with a shutter issue. And I know a lot of photographers. This is not the ones on AP, just the ones I personally know.

As for flicking the shutter 1000 times on a good day, that depends on genre. I often can go out for hour and come back with less than 100 photos, sometimes only 30 or so.

I think you might be creating an issue re shutter failure that isn't really an issue.


I think you have missed the OP's orginal point.

Sure, he seemed to be implying that shutters might fail more regularly but, then appeared to concead that even if they do, it is due to the fact that we expect far, far more from a shutter mechanism these days.

Regardless of the genre you shoot mostly, most of us would take many more photos with a digital camera than a film camera.

Last Sunday, I took 250 odd shots of my girl's hockey game.
The Sunday before, I took about 100 frames at the AP dawn met at Narrabeen.
On Cockatoo Is, last Saturday, I took 70 odd.
... most of which end up under the delete button.

There is no way ever, in the universe :p, I would ever do that with film. I would probably take one 24 or 36 roll (maybe two to the hockey) and make do.

At probably $1 per shutter press (very approx as I am so out of that loop), very few of us would ever dream of going nuts with the shutter. My last week would have cost over $400 in photos alone (my wife would be very cross).

So, yes, shutters prob do fail more often but, we probably actuate them at least 10x as often as in the old days.

I reckon, and I think the OP does as well, that the manufacturers have improved shutters very well.

Scotty

[ricktas]

I think you have missed the OP's orginal point.

Sure, he seemed to be implying that shutters might fail more regularly but, then appeared to concead that even if they do, it is due to the fact that we expect far, far more from a shutter mechanism these days.


Sure, but when you look at the current DSLR, many have shutter mechanisms rated to 300,000 activations, whereas a few years back it was 50,000 or 100,000. The OP stated "these camera manufacturers have failed to develop further the number one bread and butter of a DSLR: The Shutter Mechanism". However the camera manufacturers are obviously working on improving this aspect of camera design, as with all other aspects or we wouldn't have seen this jump in rated actuations. So I questioned the accuracy of his statements, and stand by that.

The OP stated "The amount of breakdowns involving modern DSLRs, specifically the shutter and reflex mirror box..", which is what I disagreed with., I do not think modern DSLR breakdown any more than their predecessors. In fact considering all the electronics etc in a modern DSLR they are quite reliable. Especially when you open up an old film slr that is completely mechanical, no silicon chip to be seen, no batteries!

My post was purely to point out that I thought he was making what is an issue for very few DSLR users, into a bigger one than what the reality is.

[Kym]

+1 ^^^


The amount of breakdowns involving modern DSLRs, specifically the shutter and reflex mirror box, made me realise that despite <snip and spelling corrected>

The whole tone of the OP says there is a problem when clearly there is not. :Doh:
As I indicated earlier the issue is: does the shutter actuations meet or exceed the manufacturers spec in most cases?
Not that they don't break down at all.

Equipment reliability today is actually very good compared with camera's made in the 80's and 90's.
(Eg. my 1977 MX has metal gears etc. later models went to plastics and had a lower life.)

So do the arithmetic ... $2,000 body @ 100,000 actuations = $0.02 per shot, and it can be repaired for $500 - $1,000 .
Compare HP5 @ $8 per 24 shot roll = $0.33 / shot; plus developing and printing.

[Scotty72]

+1 ^^^



The whole tone of the OP says there is a problem when clearly there is not. :Doh:



There is certainly not (for most people anyway).

And sure, he asked if their was a problem but, he said...


It was then that I answered my own question:

... and then went on to pretty well dismiss his own question as silly.

So, I am not sure that he has brought up a complaint that is a non-issue...

In fact, it seems to me that HE is the one identifying shutter reliability as a non-issue; so, I am confused as to why there is intense discussion (bordering on criticism of the OP) about a topic that everyone seems to agree with the OP, wholeheartedly. :confused013:confused013:confused013

Scotty

[ricktas]

(bordering on criticism of the OP) about a topic that everyone seems to agree with the OP, wholeheartedly. :confused013:confused013:confused013

Scotty

I criticised particular comments, as did other members. There is a big difference between commenting and criticising a sentence, to criticising the member!

[Jcas]

Never had a problem or know of anybody that has. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though, sounds like a good reason for me to tell hubby i should start thinking about an upgrade :th3:

[Duane Pipe]

Maybe a good reason not to buy a second hand body!:confused013

[dbax]

all good here, fingers crossed:D

[41jas]

I hope this doesn't jinx me!

[Tricky]

As I've previously mentioned on AP, my 40D's shutter mechanism failed after 13k actuations... Luck of the draw...

[TOM]

i haven't had shutter failure on a DSLR, fingers crossed. But failures in general seem to way above what should be expected I think.............


61071

Haven't found the figures for DSLR's, but wouldn't imagine there'd be much difference, perhaps even higher if anything.

[AndyD]

We don't talk about tyre or break pad failure when they wear out after appropriate time. Camera shutters are no different are they? After long enough any camera shutter will wear out I expect.

[Tannin]

I have had 2.5 shutter failures. First, the half failure: that was my second 20D, and it failed after I sold it. It had done quite a lot of work.

The other two:

My first 20D had a shutter fail after a lot of work. This really shouldn't count as a failure as it was really just worn out after many, many actuations. If they all lasted as long as this one, there wouldn't be a problem. I paid Canon to put a new shutter in the old 20D and I still have the camera, and l use it every day.

My second 40D had a shutter fail after hardly any work at all. Very poor run. But then, the 40D was a dud model, with more reliability complaints than any of the similar ones before and after (20D, 30D, 50D). Lots of people had shutter problems with 40Ds. As I recall, it was a new design, not like the 10D/20D/30D unit, and presumably it took them a while to get it right. But get it right they have - we are not hearing lots of shutter problems with 50D and up, only the 40D.

By the way, on my my other 40D, the shutter has been OK. Pity about the three other problems this camera has had.

Is shutter failure a big issue? No.

Does it happen often enough to be of some concern? Yes.

Is it worth having a failed shutter replaced? It depends: how much do you like the camera? If you are fond of it and not so keen on the idea of a new one, go ahead.