Wedding prices?

[Alysia]

I have never done any wedding photography before. But I have been asked to do my friends wedding next July.

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with pricing.
Is there a rough hourly rate that I should use?

Or is there any other tips anyone can give me on pricing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[kiwi]

Dont do it. I know that's not helpful, but, unless you are a wedding photographer already and/or have considerable experience and all the gear then it's a recipe for disaster.

[ricktas]

No rough hourly rate, sorry. When you consider some shoot weddings for $800.00 and others charge $20,000.00 and more, there is no 'going rate', you have to work it out for yourself.

There are a huge range of factors that come into play when quoting for a wedding.

Your hourly rate, post processing time, travel time, gear, production of an album (and the cost of the album), photos on disk. DVD of the photos (with music). etc etc.

It is impossible for someone to say "Charge $xxx.00", without a good knowledge of the actual agreement you are entering into with the happy couple.

[kiwi]

Oh, read this thread too:

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=38349&highlight=wedding+photo

:)

[ricktas]

I would like to add some comments too!

Just had a look at your Flickr pages. I notice you have a 450D, do you have a backup camera (what if your camera dies part way through the wedding - it does happen), backup batteries, flash? What lenses do you own?

[JM Tran]

because you are shooting a friend - I would not charge at all for the wedding photos, or dont do it.

[Wayne]

I say ^^ is good advice. If you did it for nothing and got it wrong, they might hate you, but charge them and get it wrong and they will surely hate you.

As Rick has said, if you do something so critical, ensure you have back-up gear in case the worst happens. To have decent wedding kit would mean having enough gear, and that is worth perhaps $10K+ quite easily.

[bigdazzler]

Sorry Alysia .. we dont mean to be harsh here (well maybe not kiwi, he likes being harsh :p) but I also had a look at your flickr and to be brutally honest i dont feel that your skills are really up to charging for wedding photography just yet. Rick makes a good point as well, do you have backup gear ?? You will need at least 2 of everything. You cant really say "sorry guys cant finish the job because my camera broke" So backups are very important.

Ill say to you what I say to every newcomer that asks this question (and it comes up about once a month here),

1. The first step is to be COMPLETELY honest with your potential client about your skills and experience.
2. If they are then still happy to engage you, I really feel you should consider doing it for free to gain experience, or for a very small token fee.

I know thats probably not what you wanted to hear .. but its not just just pointing and shooting. Its hard work and it doesnt end when the reception does. Youll need to edit multiple images, then prepare the files for print. Do you have the knowledge/skills/software to be doing that correctly ??

I really think that if wedding photography is something you want to get into, do it for free to gain some experience. It all counts, but i tell you now the pressure will be on for you to create images that these people are going to keep for life. Are you confident you can deliver on your own ? Cause if you do it, its ALL on you.

[Alysia]

I know I am not the best photograper out there...but I enjoy photography and just want to learn to become a better photogrpher.
I wasn't planning on charging $2000 or anything for the day, it was just a curious question as to what people do charge.


I know about all the back up gear and by next July, I am hoping to have upgraded from the 450D. I do have over a year to get that sort of stuff organised.

The people who want me to do the photography have seen my photos and know that I haven't been doing photography for the last 20 years, like the professional wedding photographers (seen I'm only 22 years old!!), but also aren't very keen on paying huge amounts of money for a photographer when they are trying to pay off a mortgage.

Also I know that it doesn't just end after the reception on the day. I know I will have lots of pictures to go through and edit. And I am prepared to do that.

Maybe I worded that first post a bit wrong and made it sound like I am going to charge full prices, but I'm not. Was just a curious question more than anything.

Sorry if it touched a raw nerve with anyone on here....

[kiwi]

It's not a raw nerve, but I don't think you should consider a wedding until you are a very good and experienced photographer regardless of the $ issue, it's just the ethical thing to do

[ricktas]

Agree with Kiwi. I have seen people get friends to take their wedding photos and it all end up in Court. Friendships ruined and a LOT of money spent on legal fees. Just cause they are friends, never forget that you are being paid to provide a service, and if for any reason they feel their expectations are not met, your friendships could well be over, at a minimum. It happens more than people realise. We don't consider it a raw nerve, rather we want to make sure YOU are ready for this. Along with all your new gear, get yourself some insurance..just in case.

Our posts were just to ensure you had a good understanding about what you are in for, and what you need to do, if you agree to take on this wedding

[bigdazzler]

No raw nerves here either .. just trying to save you a potentially hostile situation. Bottom line, if you value the friendship I wouldnt do it.

If the couple are an acquaintance more than a friend, take the gamble and see how you go. As for money, basic shoot and burn packages usually go for between $750 and $1000. But these are guys that are experienced (mostly) and pretty good .. those prices are at the lower end of the scale not because the work is average but because the product is basic.

[Keith]

It would depend on how close a friend you are to them and what they expect as an end result from you. Do they want just a record of the day to show overseas friends and relatives, or are they after an amazing set of highly processed shots with stunning poses? Could you give them the photos as a gift perhaps? Ask them why they chose you.

IF you are going to do it I would try to be a second photographer or their shadow for as many as possible and take millions of shots to prepare yourself. :)

[Erin]

As someone who has done wedding photos for a friend, take it from me, it's a VERY hard job especially when you're green. They'd seen my landscapes and little vignettes and thought that would translate into people/wedding photography. Nooooo, it didn't. At all. I had no idea what I was doing and I basically ended up getting very amateurish happy snaps. Not even good happy snaps.

To be frank, I botched my friend's wedding photos. I knew it, they knew it - and saw it when they got their disc of images. They don't hold any grudges (fortunately for me they are fantastic people) but I knew they were disappointed as none of my photos ended up on display anywhere - not even on flickr or Facebook. It's the unmentionable subject between us now, even though they've asked me to do pictures for them since then.

The day only happens once. There's no going back - there's often no time for redoing shots and you only get one attempt. It's a big day for them and they can't be worried about what you're doing.

You're in Victoria so I would suggest you look up a mob called Creative Photo Workshops (CPW) run by a photographer called Shelton Muller. Great bloke, excellent teacher, knows his trade. Does a lot of stuff for Nikon and Kodak, etc, etc, etc. Get yourself to a couple of the CPW workshops if you can. It'll help, with creative lighting using natural light and posing. There's also a very popular weddings workshop which you will benefit from if you want to pursue this line of photography.

I've had a look at your flickr account and what you've got is good, but not good enough to move those skills over for a wedding - paid or unpaid. Encourage your friends to forgo the wedding cars and invest in a good photographer. There are lots who are sub $2000 who do a fantastic job.

[Finlaw]

I have done a wedding for a friend. They weren't going to have a photographer as they couldn't afford it and were arming their family and friends with disposables. Now I'm no wedding photographer but I do enjoy portrature so I knew that I would at least get some okay shots and that most of them would be better than from disposables so I offered for the experience. The final result was obviously not up there with professional wedding photographers but they were over the moon and have just recommended me to their friends (eek - I would need to politely refuse, way to much pressure to get the results).

I guess it depends on your skills and what the couple are expecting your results to be like. To ensure my friend knew what to expect I shot their engagement party as well.

[Dylan & Marianne]

If they are asking it as a friend and want a bunch of images that are just snap records of the moment, then that will probably be fine no matter what you do.
If they are wanting a traditional kind of wedding package of which you have no experience so far, I'd say you have a couple of options : 1. Frantically find lots of weddings in the next year to be second photographer for and see how you go in your learning curve before accepting anything 2. Say no for the reasons everyone else has stated.

Expectations and delivery need to match and if they don't , both parties are setting up for a world of hurt given that weddings mostly only come around once in a lifetime.

[kiwi]

Even in that situation still say mo but take your camera as a guest anyway and take photos under no pressure and with no expectation

[OzzieTraveller]

G'day Alysia

I started doing weddings "a couple of thousand years ago" - way back in the 60s - and all of the comments and helpful advice above rings bells with me

1- you've got to start somewhere ... so IF you do this job, be honest, tell them all about your fears
2- go and do some dummy runs - both with your friends & other s to whom you can latch onto
3- talk to another wedding pro to see if you can tag-along to see what they do & how they do it
4- borrow/beg/steal a second camera body/flash etc for the big day
5- line up others in the wedding party to back you up with their point & shooters ... it's sometimes amazing what gets shot over your shoulder

ie- use the next year to learn lots & lots more before you do the "big one"

hope this helps a bit
Regards, Phil

[SRR33]

- Try and do a few 2nd shooter gigs atleast till your friends wedding day. Get the experience first and see if you still want to do it. Trust me weddings is a really hard job!!

- Instead of spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in upgrading all your gear, why not rent it out for a day or two. Ask your friends if they can chip in the cost and leave it at that.


If you were in sydney i would have let you swing past a few weddings and take some photos.


I first started off with doing 2nd shooter gigs and getting as much experience as possible. Its the only way to start and learn.


Best of luck.

[campo]

The first few weddings I did, there was no money involved, I simply asked my friends if they would sign a release form so i could use their images to show prospective clients in the future. Soon after that stage, I graduated to " release form and a bottle of scotch". After that, I started second shooting with a full time professional and gained some confidence and it was only after after that I was starting to feel comfortable to charge. By then I had also built up redundancy (ie. multiple lenses, multiple cameras, spare batteries etc etc).

As others have suggested, be completely honest with your friends. Tell them if they really value the photography side of their wedding they really should pay for a professional

[mpot]

The first few weddings I did, there was no money involved, I simply asked my friends if they would sign a release form so i could use their images to show prospective clients in the future.

Actually, you don't need a release form for that.

You only need a release form in Australia if you are using the photos for commercial use - where "commercial use does not mean the sale a picture, but rather the use of a person's likeness to endorse some product or service, or to entice others to buy it."
(from here (http://4020.net/words/photorights.php#commuse))

[kiwi]

you might also be aware that copyright of wedding photos remains with the couple unless you chnage this in a contract

[campo]

Actually, you don't need a release form for that.


I think you misread :(

"to show prospective clients in the future" was my way of saying I'll be using those pictures to advertise my business/services. See the next point on the link you provided:


"A wedding photographer shows samples of their work on their website. Commercial — they are using images of people to endorse or sell their wedding photography services."

My "release form" also deals with copyright too :-)

[Zac]

you might also be aware that copyright of wedding photos remains with the couple unless you chnage this in a contract

Nope. Copyright belongs to the photographer unless specified in a contract HOWEVER you should always have a model release for any images you intend to exhibit as there is a lot more to the law than just copyright...

[kiwi]

Zac, nooo, check the Australian copyright council's fact sheet g11

If you are commissioned to take a photo of someone they own copyright

Not sure if this applies to free, I'd imagine it needs some consideration to occur

[Zac]

Zac, nooo, check the Australian copyright council's fact sheet g11

If you are commissioned to take a photo of someone they own copyright

Not sure if this applies to free, I'd imagine it needs some consideration to occur

Thanks, its more complex than I remember. For a free (TFCD) shoot my understanding is that the photographer owns copyright, but its good to cover usage rights in your model release to prevent misunderstandings. e.g. the model may display the photographs but may not sell them, or modify them in any way. The rules for "commissioned" work only apply if the client pays the photographer.

For commissioned work, you simply make sure that wording giving the photographer copyright is included in your contract :-)

These are the relevant parts of the G10 document here:
www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/infosheets_pdf/g011.pdf

Who owns copyright?
For photographs, unless there is an agreement to the contrary, the general rule is that the photographer is the first owner of copyright. (Note that you will not own copyright just because you own the camera).

There are, however, a number of exceptions to this general rule, set out in the following paragraphs.

If more than one person is involved in the creation of copyright material, or the material is created under an agreement or by commission, it is a good idea to have a written agreement stating who will own copyright.

Note that in many cases a person who is not the copyright owner will have rights to use the photographs in various ways (for example, as a result of an express or implied licence).

Commissioned photographs
Specific provisions set out the general rules on ownership of copyright where a person who is not the photographer’s employer (a client) pays a photographer to take a photograph.

For photographs taken on or after 30 July 1998, the general rule on ownership depends on the purpose for which the photographs were taken:
• if the photographs were taken for “private or domestic purposes” (such as family portraits, or wedding photographs), the first owner of copyright in them is the client, unless the photographer and client agree otherwise; however
• if they were taken for any other purpose (e.g. commercial shots), the photographer will be the first owner of copyright, unless the photographer and client agree otherwise.
If someone owns copyright in a photograph as a result of having commissioned it (without having reached any other agreement about ownership), the photographer has the right to restrain the use of the photograph for purposes other than those for which it was commissioned (provided these purposes were made known at the time of the arrangement). This rule applies to any photograph taken on or after 1 May 1969. Even though the client
is the owner of copyright, the photographer can rely on his/her right of restraint to negotiate further payment for uses that were not contemplated at the outset.

Not relevant to the OP but for the sake of completeness :

Photographs taken in the course of employment
If an employee takes a photograph as part of his or her job, the first owner of copyright will be the employer, unless they have made an agreement to the contrary. This general rule is subject to two major exceptions, set out in the following paragraphs.

Photographs taken by employees of newspaper and magazine publishers
For photographs taken on or after 30 July 1998, the photographer owns the rights to photocopy the photographs and include them in books; the publisher owns all other rights.
These rules do not apply to freelance photographers, who are covered by the general rule that the person who takes the photograph owns copyright in it (unless they make an agreement to the contrary).

Photographs taken for the government
Unless there is an agreement to the contrary, a Commonwealth, State or Territory government is the first owner of copyright in material created, or first published, under its direction or control. Note that these provisions do not apply to local governments. For more information, see our information sheet Governments (Commonwealth, State and Territory).

[Ed Downunder]

WOW a lot of good advice here.

If your interest is more wedding's and a future in weddings then you need to consider some of the comments about free & second shooter. You really do need an environment where you can feel the pressure but not the responsibility. The gear is not the primary issue but knowing what you can achieve is. I went to a rehersal and shot a few to get an idea for the big day. I had some really interesting stuff lined up. On the day it was later in the day and overcast. Turned out a bit of a disaster. To much excitment and animation to shoot in low light with a slow lens

canon 5d mk2 24 105 F4.0 L IS lens didn't cope. I needed to switch over to 70 - 200 F2.5 IS. (not in my bag and still on my wish list) and that was only one problem.

My second wedding was much better. I turned up with my gear I mingled kept out of the way moved forward when appropriate and earned a reputation that my pics were better than the pro (not true of course but my shots were there and the pressure was also there but not the resposibility. I still wanted to switch over to the 70 200 that is still on the wish list).

The big lesson here for me was to know the limitations of my gear and of myself.

I will do more in future and will look for opportunities to develop my skills. Best of luck to you.

[Longshots]

Actually, you don't need a release form for that.

You only need a release form in Australia if you are using the photos for commercial use - where "commercial use does not mean the sale a picture, but rather the use of a person's likeness to endorse some product or service, or to entice others to buy it."
(from here (http://4020.net/words/photorights.php#commuse))



Sorry but I must correct you. Although this may be slightly off topic of the OP's question, I find this type of advice slightly dangerous. This is often stated and is completely wrong. As a one involved in the business side of photography for a great number of years, and in specifics, almost obsessive with the details, this is 100% wrong. Please check and recheck the bio on the author of the website, you're quoting from. Quite simply, he's wrong.

If you want the correct information refer to Australian Copyright Council, and read the Australian Copyright Act.

[Longshots]

I have never done any wedding photography before. But I have been asked to do my friends wedding next July.

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with pricing.
Is there a rough hourly rate that I should use?

Or is there any other tips anyone can give me on pricing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


Some very good advice from others. My first question is just because you have been asked, why do you think it would be ok to then charge ? As you wont have any business foundations, ie insurance or anything like that; why make it more complicated ?

I'd seriously take the advice of dont do it, unless you have supreme confidence. How many weddings have you attended ? Looking at how others have their weddings shot, can give you some great help. I'd try and get myself invited to as many as possible, and also see if you can get some work experience with a wedding photographer.

All of that would be first on my to do list :)

[wattsgallery]

-

I first started off with doing 2nd shooter gigs and getting as much experience as possible. Its the only way to start and learn.


Best of luck.

Some good advice in the thread although (from my novice perspective) I think if you pitch it correctly, set the right expectations and get some experience beforehand you should give it a go. I just shot my cousins wedding - made plenty of mistakes and learnt a lot - but ultimately there are more good shots than they had hoped (+200 keepers of day and +25 they want to blow up).

I am shocked by how little some of you guys charge given the work involved (Sidd checked out your site nice work and cheap packages). I spent many hours preparing and checking out venue and talking to the couple, obviously a full day shooting and many nights processing images. I was doing it for free but probably would charge if I did it again given the amount of work and stress involved.

One way as mentioned to avoid the charging = professional service perception is to have a fee based on some reasonable costs. That might include gear hire, travel, a wedding workshop you attend, books, software (Lightroom), cf cards etc. These add up and if you list them as the cost they can see that it is money you incur in taking on the role not as a 'profit'. You should line up a second shooter as well as a fallback.

Just my view. Good luck.

[AutumnCurl]

I come across this thread and i think the wedding photos turned out fine :)