cokin p-series filters

[ving]

anyone got opinions on these? they seem so damn cheap.... are they any good/useful?

[mercho]

I have 3 Coking ND Grads (ND2, ND4, ND8) and a straight ND 8...

I find all of the grads on their own are perfect, even stacking 2 usually is still ok, however i find that if I stack 3 and some times 2 I get the magenta cast..

I have also found that under most conditions the ND8 has a magenta cast even when its not stacked..

Besides the cast (which isn't too hard to get rid of) they are good, but they cast does become annoying!!

[bigdazzler]

I have a set as well .. and rarely (given my preferred genres) use them. I use the NDs and the GNDs sometimes and get ok results. They get very dirty, and scratch real easy though.

[ving]

i have only ever used screw-in typ filters, there slide in ones easy to use?

showing my eternal newbie-ness here...

[bigdazzler]

I dont even use the adapter rings, or the holder ... I hold the filter in front of the lens.

I find with the grad filters, if the front element on your lens, to which the adapter ring and holder are attached, moves when AFing, it buggers up your horizon. Easier to just hold it I reckon

[ving]

does that ssume that the front element moves when focusing?

[bigdazzler]

yep ... Its ok if the element doesnt move. The system works pretty well overall. The holders fit snugly onto the rings, and the filters fit good inside the holder. Theres about 4 or 5 slots so you can stack filters if you choose. Theres an UW holder available as well to use for anything wider than about 14mm I think it is from memory. The standard holder pops up in the frame with UWAs, and vignetting occurs.

[mikew09]

I dont even use the adapter rings, or the holder ... I hold the filter in front of the lens.

I find with the grad filters, if the front element on your lens, to which the adapter ring and holder are attached, moves when AFing, it buggers up your horizon. Easier to just hold it I reckon

Mate, your not the first one I have read just holds them - so how steady do you have to hold them as early morning sunrise may need a little longer shutter time?

Do I really need to buy a holder then - I don't ahve an ultra wide as yet.

[bigdazzler]

mike I find even with longish shutter times, as long as you dont bump the actual lens it works fine. I usually just rest them up against the rim of the lens gently before I fire and hold the filter at the corners with my thumb and index finger.

Admittedly though Im not much of a landscaper, the hardcore scapers out there may scoff at my dodgy methods :D

[ving]

do you think they do a better job than the screw in type filters?

[arthurking83]

...

Admittedly though Im not much of a landscaper, the hardcore scapers out there may scoff at my dodgy methods :D

like me? :D

no way! you sound like me. If I scoff at your methods, imagine how hard it'd be to scoff at my own methods!? ;)
(I have some seriously deranged bad habits, and holding grads in front of a lens at 1/3s is definitely one of them..

So.. nope! I'm not scoffing :D

[bigdazzler]

do you think they do a better job than the screw in type filters?

Ive never used screw in type NDs or GNDs Ving .. the only screw in filters I have are polarisers.

I suppose the obvious advantage to the square type slip in filters is eliminating the need to buy $$$ filters for every diameter of every lens. Imagine buying ND2,4,8 and GND 2,4,8 etc for 67, 72, 77, 82 etc etc. lenses ... would get pretty $$$$ pretty quickly.

If youre gonna stick with screw type, Id grab a 2 stop ND4 and a 3-stop GND8 for the diameter of your widest lens ..

The square filters can be on any size lens, any time.

AK ... good to hear Im not the only dodgy brother out there .. :lol: Lucky for me I dont require filters much, so thats my justification for the corner cutting :D

[arthurking83]

....

AK ... good to hear Im not the only dodgy brother out there .. :lol: Lucky for me I dont require filters much, so thats my justification for the corner cutting :D

:D

LOL! you can safely bet your last dollar that I'm one to cut corners too.. literally!
fingers in the corner of images, filters off the corners of images.. etc.

I never thought that this would ever happen to me, but one time on an exposed hill, on a breeeeeezy day, the grad flew out of my hand(fingers) and off into the sunset.. about 20 -30 meters down a steep hill side.. well, it was steep for my dodgy knee anyhow! and to compound the problem it was in tall dry grass. The tall dry grass actually saved me from a quick trip down and made it easier to find the grad resting about half way into the grasses.

handholding has it's dangers too!

[bigdazzler]

funny you say that ... I dropped one too once. Over the fence and down the hill at the Byron Bay lighthouse. Goneski forever that one.

[mikew09]

Team, that is very interesting. So maybe I try some GND filter first and then see how I go just holding them, the filters themselves arent that expensive.

[stixstudios]

Thanks for this info, I've been looking into GND's for a while but have been put off by the fact that the front element of my 28mm lens rotates when focusing. PITA. :(

So I guess there's no harm in just biting the bullet and purchasing one, then use the 'hand held' method... barring any accidents as discribed above :eek:

Which nd strength is the most common for sunset/seascapes etc.?

Steve.

[mikew09]

Thanks for this info, I've been looking into GND's for a while but have been put off by the fact that the front element of my 28mm lens rotates when focusing. PITA. :(

So I guess there's no harm in just biting the bullet and purchasing one, then use the 'hand held' method... barring any accidents as discribed above :eek:

Which nd strength is the most common for sunset/seascapes etc.?

Steve.

I am with Steve, intereted also.

[bigdazzler]

Which nd strength is the most common for sunset/seascapes etc.?

Steve.

mate if I had to carry one filter only, it would be a 3 stop, soft edge, GND8.

[stixstudios]

Ok, I've just been doing some research on the Cokin P-Series which is what I'm looking at and within my budget.

Apparently you can adjust the holder for lenses with a rotating element:

Autofocus :
Remove the nipple at the base of the filter-holder for free rotation with autofocus lenses. You merely need to hold the filter-holder horizontal with just two fingers.

There is more info here:
http://www.cokin.com/ico15-D.html

I've got some prices: around $27 for the holder and $52 for a GradND.

Now after reading that info I'm going to get the holder anyway. soonish.

[EDIT]

Just saw your post Dazzler - Many Thanks. On the site that I'm looking at they have the Graduated Grey G2 (Soft ND8) is that the one? It's a bit confusing. :confused013

Steve

[RebelT2]

I too am looking at buying the Cokin Series P (NEW) Landscape Kit 1 Set with Holder but am ausure what size they come in, my lens takes 58mm screw in filters does any one know if they will fit or need to buy adaptor rings?

[arthurking83]

.... my lens takes 58mm screw in filters does any one know if they will fit or need to buy adaptor rings?

You ALWAYS need adapter rings!
the Cokin filters have a square shaped holder where the filters slot into(on one side) and on the other side of the holder is a circular recess where the adapter ring slides, and clips into as well. That circular shape is set, and can fit up to an 82mm lens thread.
The reason that the rear recess of the filter holder is circular is that you can rotate the filter holder to suit your scene.

I think(I'm not sure) that this landscape kit may require you to purchase the adapter ring separately, and all you do is specify the size of the threads(in your case 58mm!).
Then when you get yourself another lens with a larger diameter front element, all you need to do is purchase another adapter ring(approx $10-20) or so.

[RebelT2]

Thankyou i will now go armed with somewhat limited knowledge and purchase the kit and adaptor ring..:o

[Taxxy]

Thanks guys, I have been toying with the idea of heading out and getting some filters but didn't understand the whole concept of the holders and rings. I guess its nearly trial and error to which grad strength one needs depending on the type of scenses they shoot

[stixstudios]

You ALWAYS need adapter rings!
the Cokin filters have a square shaped holder where the filters slot into(on one side) and on the other side of the holder is a circular recess where the adapter ring slides, and clips into as well. That circular shape is set, and can fit up to an 82mm lens thread.
The reason that the rear recess of the filter holder is circular is that you can rotate the filter holder to suit your scene.

I think(I'm not sure) that this landscape kit may require you to purchase the adapter ring separately, and all you do is specify the size of the threads(in your case 58mm!).
Then when you get yourself another lens with a larger diameter front element, all you need to do is purchase another adapter ring(approx $10-20) or so.
Thanks Arthur - I forgot about needing the adapter ring :o - 58mm in my case too.


Thankyou i will now go armed with somewhat limited knowledge and purchase the kit and adaptor ring..:o
Let us know Rebel, how you go - roughly what price are you paying for the whole kit?

Steve.

[bigdazzler]

Have a look here (http://www.cokin.com/ico15-A.html)for how the Cokin Creative system works.

Here (http://www.cokin.com/filtres2.html?=#121S)you can see the benefits of using different graduated filters.

For anyone wanting to have a play with these things in sunrise/sunset scenes, I would start with this filter, a soft edge 3 stop GND8 (Ref. 121S) - you can buy it from here (http://www.qualitycamera.com.au/cokin-series-grad-grey-soft-ndx8-p121s-p-1153.html)

You can also buy a kit here (http://www.qualitycamera.com.au/cokin-series-grad-with-holder-p-4144.html), which includes a P-Series filter holder, 1 stop GND2, 2 stop GND4, and 3 stop GND8 for $99. You will need to buy adapter rings seperately here (http://www.qualitycamera.com.au/cokin-filters-cokin-adaptors-holder-c-22_8.html)for your particular lens diameter.

[bigdazzler]

what price are you paying for the whole kit?

Steve.

If you go with the above kit, including the holder and 3 GND filters ($99) plus a 58mm ring ($29) .. you ll get yourself a nice little landscape kit for under $150.

The kit is handy because you can stack them up.

[mikew09]

Have been doing some research and pretty much came up with the same kit at the same supplier. Think I will order this soon. It is a realitively inexpensive addition to a photography kit, not to mention I am getting sick of dark foregrounds or blown out skies :-).

[peterb666]

I have been using the Cokin P-series with my Olympus E-P1 for about 9 months now. They are ideal for smaller format cameras and would suit most 1.5-1.6 crop cameras too provided you don't go ultra wide.

The standard holder takes 3 filters or a circular polariser and 2 filters. You can get colour shift problems if you stack too many and the edges of the filters can pick up the sun if you are shooting at an angle towards the sun and give terrible flare. A solution to that is to cover the edges of the filters in some light black card or similar.

The wide angle lens adapter should suit most wider lenses in a cropped sensor camera. It will only take a single filter.

As well as Cokin filters, I have some cheap Tian Ya filters that seem reasonable although they are about 1mm thicker. I also have some more expensive HiTech filters.

The main problem with Cokin is thay don't have a lot of filters I wanted, e.g. ND 1.2 (16x) which I use a lot and reverse GND filters which do a trick sunrise, or hard GNDs. HiTech give you those options for less than half the price of the top-end filters.

If you are going to shoot ultra-wide, I would suggest you look into the Z-pro size however they are a lot more expensive.

[bigdazzler]

Have been doing some research and pretty much came up with the same kit at the same supplier. Think I will order this soon. It is a realitively inexpensive addition to a photography kit, not to mention I am getting sick of dark foregrounds or blown out skies :-).

Mike its really the only way to shoot these kinds of scenes properly. Every landscaper should have a ND kit .. :th3:

The pool shot on my homepage (http://www.darrengrayphotography.com/site/Welcome.html) was done by holding a filter in front of the lens , no adapter ring or holder. So you can see it works .... sometimes :D

[peterb666]

Have been doing some research and pretty much came up with the same kit at the same supplier. Think I will order this soon. It is a realitively inexpensive addition to a photography kit, not to mention I am getting sick of dark foregrounds or blown out skies :-).

It is a great little starter kit. You need to play around with filters for a while to get a fell for what you require.

[stixstudios]

Have been doing some research and pretty much came up with the same kit at the same supplier. Think I will order this soon. It is a realitively inexpensive addition to a photography kit, not to mention I am getting sick of dark foregrounds or blown out skies :-). :music05: Yep, same here mike.


Mike its really the only way to shoot these kinds of scenes properly. Every landscaper should have a ND kit .. :th3:...
And thanks for all your advice Darren, I've checked out the supplier link and it all looks good. I assume they are a reputable supplier? At least they're in Oz, and not O/S.

One other thing is that I'll be using it on my 35mm film camera (28-80mm) I've read that there can be some vignetting issues on full frame camera's?

Steve.

[arthurking83]

I have been using the Cokin P-series with my Olympus E-P1 for about 9 months now. They are ideal for smaller format cameras and would suit most 1.5-1.6 crop cameras too provided you don't go ultra wide......

You do have to be careful with the choice of size(of the filter system) relative to the camera format tho!

I have an old film Rollei 35mm camera and I have tried to use my Cokin P filters with that(handheld of course). The problem is that the diameter of the lens on that lil Rollei is too small. I guess that many or most of the lenses for the Olympus EP series cameras will ahve lens diameters larger than 30.5mm so it may not be an issue for that size system, But the P series will be close to useless on say a P&S camera(again due to the size of the lens diameter).

There is an A series set of filters which is smaller again than the P. The problem is that the graduation in the grad filters is too broad for the smaller sized lenses. So you don't get clearly defined graduation over the horizontal length of the front glass(hope that makes sense?).
Having access to both soft and hard grads too, both types turned out to be useless on the Rollei, and made no difference to the exposure at all. The dark area of the filter was either entirely over the lens, or not.

[bigdazzler]

:music05: Yep, same here mike.


And thanks for all your advice Darren, I've checked out the supplier link and it all looks good. I assume they are a reputable supplier? At least they're in Oz, and not O/S.

One other thing is that I'll be using it on my 35mm film camera (28-80mm) I've read that there can be some vignetting issues on full frame camera's?

Steve.

Yep ... they are a site sponsor, so if you choose to buy from them, click here (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=13499), and scroll down till you find their banner. If you click through the banner, Rick (owner of AP) gets a commission. We try to encourage that, as it all goes to help in running the site and providing comp prizes etc. Stu at Quality Cameras will look after you. :)

As for the FF issue, Im not sure to be honest mate. Ive been shooting portraits exclusively for quite a while and havent tried the filters on my FF bodies yet.

[peterb666]

You do have to be careful with the choice of size(of the filter system) relative to the camera format tho!
... the Olympus EP series cameras will ahve lens diameters larger than 30.5mm so it may not be an issue for that size system, But the P series will be close to useless on say a P&S camera(again due to the size of the lens diameter).
... Having access to both soft and hard grads too, both types turned out to be useless on the Rollei, and made no difference to the exposure at all. The dark area of the filter was either entirely over the lens, or not.

It must have had a very small dia lens.

The smallest filter size I have is 40.5mm in MFT mount but that lens won't work with Cokin filters as it is rotating & front focusing and the AF motor doesn't have power to take the load anyway.

I also have a 1950s Schneider lens with a 38mm filter size but that isn't one that you can get a stepping ring for. 38mm is an obsolete filter size.

Smaller lenses don't work well with soft grads and hard grads can be a bit extreme at times. Its all part of the challenge but as Darren said, there is no other way for certain types of photography.

[stixstudios]

Yep ... they are a site sponsor, so if you choose to buy from them, click here (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=13499), and scroll down till you find their banner. If you click through the banner, Rick (owner of AP) gets a commission. We try to encourage that, as it all goes to help in running the site and providing comp prizes etc. Stu at Quality Cameras will look after you. :)

As for the FF issue, Im not sure to be honest mate. Ive been shooting portraits exclusively for quite a while and havent tried the filters on my FF bodies yet.

Thanks again Darren.

Did some research and it looks like the p-series is fine for 28mm and onwards for FF camera's.

No probs, when I do buy I will go through the banner link as suggested - always good to support forums such as this.

So, I just have some bills to pay...or the filters...or bills...or filters...bills...filters... hmmmmm :umm:

[arthurking83]

forget the bills!... take care of the important stuff first! :p

if that sounds a lot like me!... who shall forever remain broke, and burdened with an increasingly superfluous oversupply of seemingly important gear that has me constantly teetering on the edge of life and death.. and I mean seriously burdened sometimes.. when I take the 300/2.8 for walks too!... well if that sounds a lot like what I would be tempted to do.. you're in good company(depending on your definition of good! :D)

[bigdazzler]

Well I put off the last $500 payment for Bellas engagement ring so I could buy another flash

Hows that for kahunas :D

[jjphoto]

The Cokin P are a decent filter but they are a fairly soft plastic/resin/acrylic or whatever, so they can scratch quite easilly, especially if you try to clean them too often (I suggest keeping them clean to avoid the need to clean them at all). Fortunately they are quite cheap so it makes sense to replace 'worn' filters when the time comes.

They do flare more than some filters, especially when they start to scratch a little, but you get what you pay for. I'm talking about veiling flare where contrast is reduced considerably but this tends to happen when shooting into the sun rather than in normal shootng conditions. Admitedly veiling flare can often be corrected by simply cranking up the contrast in RAW conversion, up to a point, but it's much better to not have the problem in the first place.

Tiffen make a glass filter for the Cokin P holders and these are much better quality, they don't flare as much, can be cleaned easilly and will last for ever as long as you don't break it (it is glass), but they cost a lot too. I have a mix of Tiffen glass and Cokin plastic filters that I've used consistently for a very long time. Half the stuff I shoot (http://www.johnjovic.com/g.html) is with the Cokin/Tiffen grads. I would buy the glass Tiffen over the Cokin any day of the week as long as I was doing it with some one elses money. Unfortunately I only have MY money so the decision is normally swayed towards the expendible Cokins!

JJ

[stixstudios]

Well I put off the last $500 payment for Bellas engagement ring so I could buy another flash

Hows that for kahunas :D
:wd: that's a man truly dedicated to his craft... I hope she appreciates it :)

And thanks Arthur for your encouragement - I suppose child support can wait and instead of eating, the kids can ignore their hunger pains and amuse themselves looking through daddy's new "pretty glass" thingies. :th3:

Thanks for the info JJ - I thought they were made of glass? But I guess you would know as you own some. I'm confused as to what they mean by this though (lifted from Cokin's Website):

HIGH QUALITY FILTERS :

It is important that a filter matches the optical precision of a lens. Definition, contrast and colour reproduction must not be sacrified to creativity. That’s why all the filters are made of the material best adapted to the filter’s ultimate use, whether high tech organic glass (CR39) or mineral glass.

COKIN filters use the most advanced technologies. They are mostly made from organic glass, which is shock-proof, resistant to abrasion, and meets all necessary optical and chemical requirements.

It is on the basis of this quality standard that NASA appointed COKIN its official supplier for the Space Shuttle programme.

Organic Glass? is that the plastic?

Steve.

[arthurking83]

:confused:

maybe Cokin do have some of their filters in glass, but definitely not the P series. As JJ said they do scratch easily, especially when using them handheld against the front of the lens.

I have good images turned to duds, simply because as JJ said they can flare quite badly when shooting into the sun, but then again most lenses flare on their own accord anyhow, and having more flare from using effects filters is better than not having the image at all.
I don't have PS which has a very effective cloning/healing tool, but my usual problem is not so much veiling flare(a dreamy ghost like lack of contrast) but more like small bright spots in various parts of the frame.
When I 'have to do that' (which I try to avoid), I also try to frame the scene so that the flare spots are placed in low detail areas(such as sky or grass) and not intricately detailed areas, such as buildings and suchlike.

when you do get them tho, get a blower brush to keep them as clean as you can. The brush is totally non destructive to the Cokins soft poly plastic material, whereas even a super soft microfibre cloth can scratch them. If they need rubbing cleaning, use water and the micro fibre cloth.

I have one full grad Cokin that I hardly ever use(but got just in case) and the condition it's in is pristine after a good two years or so(and yes i do actually use it).
I use it when I need to stack, and this filter is always never in contact with the lens, so that it's always the first filter in front of the pack. I never clean it with a cloth, and only by (cheap $10 blower brush) but if it gets dirty, with haze or whatever that requires a cloth to clean, then I only ever use water, so it sometimes never gets cleaned(until I get to a clean water source.. as I sometimes forget to take water with me! :o)

if you only ever use the holders and look after the filters by not mishandling them, they should last you for a good while.
The packaging they come in is dreadful for storage as they flap around in the plastic case. I used to wrap two sheets of PecPads around them before placing them in their cases. But then I bought the Cokin P series filter wallet, and that's almost ideal.

[peterb666]

Organic Glass? is that the plastic?

Steve.

CR39 is "Columbia Resin" formula number "39" and is a plastic that is otherwise known as allyl diglycol carbonate.

[peterb666]

:confused:

maybe Cokin do have some of their filters in glass, but definitely not the P series.

The polariser is glass, AFIK all the rest are CR39. They will chip on the edges if dropped. I do that a lot (accidently drop them).

They will scratch if you are determined but are reasonably tough and provided you are careful should last a few years without scrating.

[stixstudios]

Ahh, that makes more sense now - thanks guys.

I'm happy to get the landscape kit and try them out and work out which one/ones suit my style.

I can always then get a better quality one ie. hi-tech/lee/singh ray/tiffen, when I can see that quality is holding me back.

The 'veiling flare' issue concerns me a bit though - not that I take a lot of shots directly at the sun. Is this less of an issue with the more expensive filters?

Now I'm a bit confused :confused013 Perhaps I'd be better off getting the holder & conversion ring and 1 good quality filter???

Steve.

[jjphoto]

They will scratch if you are determined but are reasonably tough and provided you are careful should last a few years without scrating.

I agree they will last years but all of mine have scratched with carefull use on my part. They often rub on a part of the holder, which tends to scratch them right down the middle of the filter, so they tend to scratch by design. However it does depend on how you use the holder and this can be avoided if you only use the slot furthest away from the lens as there are 3 slots in the holder. Using the slot closest to the lens will tend to scratch the filter as it can and does rub on the holder itself. I tend to use this slot because my holder has had some 'bath room surgery' to reduce vignetting with wider lenses (I've cut off the front 2 slots on the holder that I tend to use the most often).

JJ

[jjphoto]

...

I can always then get a better quality one ie. hi-tech/lee/singh ray/tiffen, when I can see that quality is holding me back.

....


Those filters are not all available in the Cokin P size so if you go to those filters in the future you may have to buy the respective holders which can be much more expensive.


...The 'veiling flare' issue concerns me a bit though - not that I take a lot of shots directly at the sun. Is this less of an issue with the more expensive filters?

....

I've never used Lee, Singh ray, Hi-Tech so I can't compare but I believe they are made of various forms of plastic/resin/acrylic. I've often wondered how they compare to Cokins in terms of flare and resistance to scratching and general wear and tear. I'm not prepared to buy one of each to find out but I think it would take a direct comparison to really know how they perform in the most difficult conditions. I'm sure they are all fine in normal use.

JJ

[peterb666]

Those filters are not all available in the Cokin P size so if you go to those filters in the future you may have to buy the respective holders which can be much more expensive.


I don't know about Tiffin, I didn't even know they made gel or non-framed glass filters. They certainly are avialble in Hitech as I have 4 different Hitech filters in P size and from memory they are available in SinghRay Lee as well. They are 85mm wide filters and both brands have an extensive range of ND, GND (hard and soft) as well as Rev-GND. Lee even have narrow strip filters in that size too. I think both Lee and SinghRay even do 75mm filters too.

[RebelT2]

Thanks Arthur - I forgot about needing the adapter ring :o - 58mm in my case too.


Let us know Rebel, how you go - roughly what price are you paying for the whole kit?

Steve.

$89 for the kit ans $29 for a 58mm adaptor ring from Quality Camera Sales..Hoping to try it out on the Watamolla shoot next week..

[peterb666]

$89 for the kit ans $29 for a 58mm adaptor ring from Quality Camera Sales..Hoping to try it out on the Watamolla shoot next week..

It should come in handy.

[ving]

thanks for the info folks. looks like i might use a bit of my tax return on this piece of kit :)

[arnica]

Great little addition if you are just starting landscape photography

[wattsgallery]

I had the same query.

In the end I went with the cokin p-holder (from AP sponsor Quality Cameras) and ordered some hi-tech filters from the UK. Its a bit of a hybrid option but the filters fit fine and I was worried about the Cokin quality. I haven't had a chance to use them extensively yet but so far so good.

Cheers
Josh

[ashey]

I went with the Z series bought from Quality Cameras they are bigger 6" x 4" they do the job ok by the time they are u/s I might have saved enough for a few Singh Ray filters but this is not a cheap hobby /profession so going with the cokin for starters is a good way to practice using filters and getting a better understanding of when to use them.

[Regnis]

I went with the Z series bought from Quality Cameras they are bigger 6" x 4" they do the job ok by the time they are u/s I might have saved enough for a few Singh Ray filters but this is not a cheap hobby /profession so going with the cokin for starters is a good way to practice using filters and getting a better understanding of when to use them.

how do they fit with your UWA (siggy 10-20) I have the same set-up and am very interested to know. Can you shoot at 10mm with them?

Any how much did the whole setup cost?

cheers