Ready to buy a Printer

[Elana]

So I have come up with a plan on how to earn money taking photographs. A couple of photographer friends do daycare centres. Anyway I figured it would be a good start with minimal pressure. One of the things we talked about me getting was a printer. What I want is a printer that prints up to A3 and can do brilliant B/W. Advice now needed on some of the different brands and prices. Also would I be better off spending less money on a printer that does A4 size prints and just keep sending large ones off to the Pro Lab.

Elana

[Redgum]

If you're looking at A3 then the Epson R1900 is good value. Around $800. If that's too much stick with A4.

[Calxoddity]

+1 for the Epson R1900. Got mine about 6 months ago as a factory second from Epson, and I love it.

The benefits (both expected and unexpected)
- no fear of fade (at least in my lifetime), as it's a pigment printer
- ability to print to A3+
- ability to print roll paper for the panos
- a wide range of gorgeous papers of varying textures, finishes and thicknesses to choose from - am mainly using Innova Roughtex 310gsm (matte paper), Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl, and Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk at the moment
- robust construction.

The downside? The cost of keeping it fed with 8 x printer cartridges. If you are doing lots of prints, it becomes more cost-effective to get the Epson 2880 or 3880, paying more for the printer but less for the ink per print ongoing. Mind you, the break-even point requires fairly frequent printing (I think Red River might have had a page where you could calculate which printer was better value according to your print volume, but I could be mistaken...).

Oh, another thought - it's cheaper to print 4x6 at Harvey Norman or other photo printing place than on the R1900. A4 and A3, A3+ is cheaper on the R1900 and you get to play with different papers, as well as directly controlling the quality of the result.


Regards,
Calx

[ameerat42]

Quite a task, but make sure it takes archival inks, though I think the lab would be way cheaper. Printing an A3 would take about 15 min (from memory when I had one), and of course, gallons of ink. (Stray thoughts.) Am.
PS. Just read Calx's reply. OK, it's got archival ink.

[Wayne]

I have been looking and researching myself to find a pro-photo printer than prints large format at reasonable cost, and the problem is not the price of the printer, but the ongoing cost of inks.

If these pro prints are anything like their SOHO/Home counterparts, they will have quite the appetite for inks, especially when printing at 200-300 PPI. A good pro lab by my calculations, works out somewhat cheaper for all sizes up to A3/A0. Printing 6x4's on these pro level printers would be insane given $0.20c is what labs typically charge.

[kiwi]

There is a price on convenience and control though

I have a r290 for urgents up to a4, and all else cheaper at the lab

[AdamR]

my work has one of the pixma 9000. Fantastic results.

[rwg717]

If you're looking at A3 then the Epson R1900 is good value. Around $800. If that's too much stick with A4.

Absolutely the correct advice, 8 cartridge system but a wonderful printer (very big and bulky as you might expect).
Richard

[Bails55]

I guess this depends on your budget and how many A3 prints you're likely to do. I seriously considered getting an Epson R1900 but as I'm at the bottom of the photography learning curve, I couldn't justify the cost. I also feel that something so "flash" for a beginner probably wouldn't be a wise buy at this stage. So I've opted for an Epson TX810FW which I finally purchased today for $329. This was a happy compromise budget-wise and gives me up to A4 prints which is most likely what I will do. It takes 6 inks (rated archival @ 200 years, replacements approx $27 each) and prints a colour 6x4 pic in about 10 seconds. I'm very happy with the results so far (and it's only been an hour!) I haven't done any B+W pics yet but I'll have a go at some by the end of the night.

[Redgum]

Basically printers work this way, 5 tank or 8 tank. CMY + KK or CMY + RGB + KK (loosely speaking). There are other configurations. The five tank models generally come under $200 and the 8 tank models at $700+. There's a huge advantage with 8 tank printers (obviously) and they cost more to run. But the real cost is not only in the supplies but also the quality of ink you use. That goes for the paper too.
In the end you get what you pay for printer wise but if you're looking to do high quality prints they will cost. So, like Kiwi and others have said you need to balance your budget and if your output is low then consider having some of your printing done externally.

[Calxoddity]

Further to Redgum's excellent advice, I've found that shopping around for the ink is really worth doing. I can get a full set of R1900 inks for around $100, where the normal retail is around $177. This significantly changes the cost-effectiveness and break-even point of home printing versus external printing (I guess I should have included this caveat in my previous post, but anyhow...).

Bails' TX810 is one of several very nice dye-based ink A4 multifunction printers on the market, even if Epson are taking liberties on the claimed colorfastness of their inks. As long as you aren't seeking to use heavyweight papers or the more exotic papers, this could be good for up to A4. Just check whether the printer uses black only or mixes other colours for B&W/greyscale images, as this pushes the cost per image up considerably.

Regards,
Calx

[phild]

+1 for the Epson R series, I've got the older R1800, the results and lightfastness are worth every dollar..

[Wayne]

Further to Redgum's excellent advice, I've found that shopping around for the ink is really worth doing. I can get a full set of R1900 inks for around $100, where the normal retail is around $177.

Regards,
Calx

Is this for genuine or aftermarket inks? If that is genuine ink, please PM the details of your supplier so I can then order my new printer :)

[NikonUser]

There is always the option of the R1900 with a Continuous Ink System (from InkJetFly or one of the others). I was looking into this option before I went with a second hand Epson 3800.

From what I could gather if you print every day then you should have minimal clogging issues and the quality of the inks is quite good. Not sure about their archival life though. Using a CIS could cut your ink costs by 80%.

I've never used one, but that's just an option you could look at.

Paul

[Calxoddity]

There is always the option of the R1900 with a Continuous Ink System (from InkJetFly or one of the others). I was looking into this option before I went with a second hand Epson 3800.

From what I could gather if you print every day then you should have minimal clogging issues and the quality of the inks is quite good. Not sure about their archival life though. Using a CIS could cut your ink costs by 80%.

I've never used one, but that's just an option you could look at.

Paul

For dye inks, I could *possibly* consider a CISS. For pigment ink printers though, it's not so great. Assuming you can get one that does do pigment inks, uneveness of pigment suspension in the larger reservoirs appears to be an unresolved issue, plus catastrophic clogging in some cases. Can't find linky at the moment, but will post again if I do find it.

Regards,
Calx

[phild]

From reading the info on the CIS system, it reads as though you have to buy inks as a complete set, not good as they simply don't run out all at the same time.

[Elana]

Thanks everyone. I'll be putting off the buying of a printer for a few months I think. What I've gotten from all this is that printing at a pro lab is almost the same cost wise and the convenience and control is the main reason for having your own printer. I want one but I'll wait until the business can pay for it.

[Flash Hit]

The Canon Pro 9500 Mark II is supurb!
B&W is the best I've seen. Brilliant A3+ printer (inks $21)

[Mir-Aus]

The best option in my point of view for A3 printer is Epson R1900 (http://www.epson.com.au/products/inkjet/stylusphotor1900.asp) , for that printer also you can use CISS (http://continuousinksupplysystem.com.au/10042020-ciss-for-epson-r1900-mbox-v2.html) or Refillable Cartridge (http://continuousinksupplysystem.com.au/10042119-refillable-epson-r1900.html) with K3 (http://continuousinksupplysystem.com.au/10042213-piezo-nano-chrome-ink-r1900.html) ink.
http://continuousinksupplysystem.com.au/10042020-576-large/ciss-for-epson-r1900-mbox-v2.jpg

Reviews about this printer:
http://www.cnet.com.au/epson-stylus-photo-r1900-339285568.htm
http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/printers/epson-stylus-photo-r1900.aspx
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20R1900/page1.html

[rafikicat]

I would like people's advice on the Canon Pro 9000 MK.11 and the 9500 Mk.11. My Canon Pixma IP4200 has given me great service for quite a few years, but it's time to make the leap to A3. Is it worth the extra $$$ to get the 9500?

[Flash Hit]

Toni, I have the Pro 9500 MkII. Great printer, A3+ (10 inks which include photo black, matte black and grey) and the B&W prints are stunning.
Have a look at http://www.digitalyes.com.au/prodView.asp?idproduct=48057 and read up on the reviews before buying.
It also includes Adobe Photoshop Elements-6 (Full Version).

[NikonUser]

EDIT: - I went and ate dinner after starting this post.... it seems many people have already given great suggestions before I pressed submit :-)
EDIT EDIT: - Just realised that this is quite an old post.... only the latest couple appeared when I first clicked on the thread though.... weird. ... and now I am just talking to myself..... lol. Sorry



If you are looking at doing any decent sort of print volume then I would suggest you look past the A4 and A3 sized printers and look at the larger A2 sized ones.

The A4 and A3 printers have TINY ink carts (about 10-13ml on most models) and if you are printing anything more than a couple of prints a day then you will constantly be swapping ink. The A2 printers (Epson R3880 etc) have much larger carts (80ml+) that will last a lot longer between changes. Also, the ink cost per/ml is significantly lower with the larger carts (The Epson 110 and 220ml carts are the best value per ml in the Epson Range).

From what I can gather from my own very crude research is that anything below A4 size and you are better off going to a lab (cost wise).... above that and it starts to get better (assuming you aren't doing test prints or wasting prints etc).

With my Epson 3800 I use the rough guide that an A4 full page colour print costs about $1 in ink (it's probably actually slightly less than that) and I get my A4 paper (Moab Lasal Luster) for around 80c a sheet at A4 size.

When you look at the outlay for the Epson R1900 vs 3880... yes the 3880 is a lot more expensive, but you also get a LOT more ink (9x80ml vs 9x13ml) in that price. I read once that if you take the ink out of the equation, the actual printer hardware of the larger printers isn't all that much more than the smaller ones.

Hope that info helps a little
Paul

[rafikicat]

Thanks Flash Hit, that's helpful advice and Paul I'm sure people will find your post helpful too.

[GoldenOrb]

All the advice that you have been given is wise advice. I own a Epson 4880 and use it regularly. The one thing I was told when I looked at a large format a couple of years ago was that they need to be regularly use. ie every day.... leave them too long and the head clogs up etc. You cant afford to have it sitting around doing nothing.
Inks can cost me anywhere from 150 -220 for a 220ml tank (each) , 45-55 for a waste tank and only use ilford pearl which is about 170 for 30 mtr rolls.

There is also a considerable bit of wastage was well

Its heavy at about 60kgs and a serious pain in the arse to move it from house to house.

For me... with the previous franchise..... it turned out cheaper to purchase my own. They had a 9800 and would charge us some exorbitant prices to print on inferior media, then postage, then royalties..... Each print could cost us a extra 20-30 bucks to get it to the door. Thats with them printing at 225 and me at 300. The difference is probably overkill but the end product is what will get you repeat customers.

In what I worked out for my costings I have calculated into it "% for error and wastage" as well. I will never be able to compete at photo lab prices. I know this, but at the end of the day I have the confidence that it will give a far better picture then the photo lab any day.

We also recently purchase a Epson B510DN (business printer).. which allows me to print brochures etc, even in duplex on photographic media.... and I must say for a 4 cartridge printer it still does really good. It basically does everything that Epson claim to do... but after 6 months I am still toying with it to get a better knowledge of it

[rafikicat]

Now here is another question that leads on from GoldenOrb's post. Using dye based inks I've never had any trouble with the print head in my old A4 Canon drying up. I've heard that it has been a problem with Epson printers, but does it apply to pigment dyes too?
The Canon Pro9500 uses pigment inks and the Pro9000 uses dye based inks (the same ones used in my A4 Canon, ChromaLife).
There seems to be a lot of discussion on the internet about whether it is really worth going for pigment inks, and as I am not about to start selling my photographs, do I really need pigment inks?

[kiwi]

now, somewhere there is a websitem the name and the ink escapes me right now, that compares the life of various printers (ie the inks and papers used) that will answer that question which I believe is more about permanence than it is about initial quality

[kiwi]

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

[rafikicat]

Thanks for that kiwi - what I was really asking was not about permanence, but whether or not there is a problem with pigment inks drying up on the print head.
I'll have a look a wilhelm.

[GoldenOrb]

Have a gander at
http://www.macworld.com/article/54216/2006/12/inktype.html

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/dye-pigment-metamerism.html

doesnt say much about the head drying out, but either way the printer head should be cleaned every few weeks.
I know with mine when I last moved house nearly 2 years ago, I didnt use it for about 2 months and it took some time, a lot of paper and inks to get it right again, but thats just the nature of the beast I guess

[GoldenOrb]

In hind sight, any form of fluid with a pigment/ dye or foreign object in it. it would surely have to evaporate over a period of time and leave some sort of residual behind??...

[GoldenOrb]

here ya go...
read on

http://www.marrutt.com/digital-ink-myths.php

[rafikicat]

Thanks so much GoldenOrb for all those links, just what I needed to read. It's beginning to sound like it would be "overkill" to go for the 9500 and its pigment inks, when the 9000 with dye based inks should fill my requirements, as a reasonably competent amateur photographer.
Now I just have to find the best deal. :D

[GoldenOrb]

have a look at the US.... their prices for printers ... even second hand.. are unbelievable.... Even with what they charge for freight you'd still be miles ahead with the way the Aus dollar is right now