Strobe beginners question

[hus]

Out of boredom I was scanning ebay and ended up buying a flash trigger and 2 recievers.
If l set up a triangle setup where the flash on the left and right and the subject in front.
My question is would the camera do the metering on its own when l take a shot (shutter on flash sync speed) or do l need a light meter to manually work out the settings.

I really should keep away from ebay :Doh:

[I @ M]

Unless the trigger and receivers you bought from ebay support wireless ttl metering in conjunction with your flash heads and camera you will need to buy a meter and go down the full manual route. Either that or experiment with lots and lots of shots and get the metering right via the camera lcd and histogram.
Buying a meter and working fully manual isn't as daunting ( just more expense ) as it sounds and also avoids the inconsistent results that ttl can sometimes bring.

[mercho]

Out of boredom I was scanning ebay and ended up buying a flash trigger and 2 recievers.
If l set up a triangle setup where the flash on the left and right and the subject in front.
My question is would the camera do the metering on its own when l take a shot (shutter on flash sync speed) or do l need a light meter to manually work out the settings.

I really should keep away from ebay :Doh:

Unless the Trigger and receiver are Ettl compatible (which i doubt as they are from ebay ;)), you are going to have to set up the flashes manually...

http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ is a great resource.. I am only new to this world of off camera lighting as well, and have learn't a ton from there :)

EDIT: Beaten by Andrew... :P

[hus]

Thanks guys looks like l have opened a can of worms for myself, more learning to do and another purchase involving a light meter.

[kiwi]

Lol, probably

Just a tip, just start with one very simple light just off camera axis and go from there


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[hus]

Thanks again but expect more questions about light meters next ;-)

[hus]

Wise advice, I better take small steps from now on but expect questions about light meters once I am geared up ;)

[kiwi]

Thanks again but expect more questions about light meters next ;-)

You should not need a light meter to start with


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[maccaroneski]

You should not need a light meter to start with


Or at any point I would argue - it is digital after all, so test shots and your histogram become your light meter.

[kiwi]

Id disagree with that a little, I do find one handy when you are working with multiple lights and ratios in a studio setting

[Bax]

I've been working without a light meter, granted my shots have not been of people yet. But it only takes a few shots to get the exposures right.

Just get yourself a process, think through the shot. The most important thing imo to think about is what do you want to happen with ambient. Underexposed? Completely Black - or balanced.

Once you have that you can usually work out the rest with trial and error.

[hus]

it is digital after all, so test shots and your histogram become your light meter.

Just recently I have switched on histogram view on my shots so it seems I am on the right track, only once did l get tricked into thinking my shots were coming out fine when I wasn't using flash during an indoor sports shoot only to fine them all underexposed once I downloaded them to the computer. If l knew about histograms back then it could have been avoided, but better late than never :o

[JazzXP]

Just recently I have switched on histogram view on my shots so it seems I am on the right track, only once did l get tricked into thinking my shots were coming out fine when I wasn't using flash during an indoor sports shoot only to fine them all underexposed once I downloaded them to the computer. If l knew about histograms back then it could have been avoided, but better late than never :o

Never trust the LCD on the back, but I have found that if I turn the brightness setting right down, it gets much closer to how it should be.

[maccaroneski]

Id disagree with that a little, I do find one handy when you are working with multiple lights and ratios in a studio setting

I think just like the flash itself, I will argue against them until I know how to use one :)

[oldfart]

I think just like the flash itself, I will argue against them until I know how to use one :)

In a multi light studio situation it's not unusual to meter the main light(s) at say f/8 Hair light at f/5.6 and ascent lights at f/11. A light meter is pretty much the only way to achieve this without significant stuffing around.

[hus]

Never trust the LCD on the back, but I have found that if I turn the brightness setting right down, it gets much closer to how it should be.

I tried this but found I always turned it up :o

[hus]

Back again and today got the el-cheapo triggers to play with, as advised early on the thread I went all manual and used the histogram as a light meter, after 3 test shots looks like I pretty much nailed how to get it right ( in my opinion ) the flashes were just placed randomly (one on the floor and other on the couch) and on one shot I bounced the main flash. The flash units I used were Canon 390ex and a sigma st430.
Looks like I can save the money and use it on other things rather than a light meter.
The pictures are as it came out of the camera no processing other than resize, how do they look ?

http://i48.tinypic.com/2eulvko.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/jtnybt.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/ifn9yq.jpg

[nexus]

Back again and today got the el-cheapo triggers to play with, as advised early on the thread I went all manual and used the histogram as a light meter, after 3 test shots looks like I pretty much nailed how to get it right ( in my opinion ) the flashes were just placed randomly (one on the floor and other on the couch) and on one shot I bounced the main flash. The flash units I used were Canon 390ex and a sigma st430.
Looks like I can save the money and use it on other things rather than a light meter.
The pictures are as it came out of the camera no processing other than resize, how do they look ?



Usually hard light with the associated hard shadows is quite hard (no pun intended) to get right IMHO. Perhaps trying to position your lights to soften the shadows around him especially in the 2nd shot.

[MrJorge]

I haven't played with my flash a lot. But you might want to try pointing those flash heads at the roof and bouncing the light down. Instead of pointing the flash directly at the subject.

This way you'll get less harsh lighting and strong shadows and get more "fill" light rather than direct, front on light.

[hus]

Cool will give that a go ;)

[kiwi]

What you need to do is modify and soften the direct light, bouncing it's one way

As I said earlier, start with one light, get a cheapy studio stand, speedlight braxket and a shoot through umbrella

I think youll be amazed by how many great studio togs just use ONE light

[hus]

As I said earlier, start with one light

I know but I got carried away with the thrill of having the remote triggers and wanted to see them work without thinking too much about taking proper pictures.
Sometimes the child in me comes out :Doh:

[kiwi]

thats cool, id do the same :)

[maccaroneski]

Subject to the advice above regarding modifiers, you certainly look to have nailed the exposure which seems to be the object of the exercise.

[hus]

you certainly look to have nailed the exposure which seems to be the object of the exercise.

The main concern was to get use to using histogram for working out the exposure, thanks for the thumbs up on that:) but l never took into account the hard shadows direct lighting can cause.
But then again I would never have learnt about both topics if l hadn't posted in the first place, I really appreciate all comments and suggestions it all helps with the earning curve :)

[hus]

Back again now after taking on board your advice, this is most I could soften the lighting and the shots were taken in manual.
Does it look fine or am I still missing something here ?

http://i47.tinypic.com/712yoo.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2wq7243.jpg

[Scotty72]

Obviously, much better but, it still looks kinda harsh.

Have you tried pointing the flash almost directly away from the subject and at about 45 degrees up (experiment), this should let the light reverb around the room and not come from any particular direction (shadow)

Scotty

[hus]

No l haven't pointed the lights away from the subject will be my next move, will post results thanks

[eliemarga]

Hi, just a suggestion :) I might be wrong here since I'm also learning, but wouldn't it be great if you try to imagine what kind of image do you want then start building your light from there.

just a hint:
move away the light source to the subject then you get more contrast and increase the dimension and vice versa.

[vk2gwk]

Just reviving an older thread.... Wonder how you got on in the mean time, Hus?
Got myself the same sort of triggers and am using them now with two umbrella's. Pointing high, low, behind the subject.

I do not have a light meter but have the computer (laptop) tethered to the camera and shoot "remote" so that I can see the shot straight away on a reasonably good display with the histogram next to it. That is a great help.

[MarkChap]

Ok, seems I missed this to start with.

A very simple formula to get yourself in the ball park to start with

Aperture = Guide Number(of your flash) divided by Distance(flash to subject)
Example - Cheap Ebay type flash - YN-460 has a guide number of 28(sold as 33 but from all reports it is 28)
Distance to subject - 5 mt

Aperture = 28(our guide number) divided by 5 (our flash distance to our subject)
Aperture = 5.6

You can now fine tune your flash output, distance or aperture to get the exact exposure you want, but you are close to start with.

[hus]

Just reviving an older thread.... Wonder how you got on in the mean time, Hus?
Got myself the same sort of triggers and am using them now with two umbrella's. Pointing high, low, behind the subject.

I do not have a light meter but have the computer (laptop) tethered to the camera and shoot "remote" so that I can see the shot straight away on a reasonably good display with the histogram next to it. That is a great help.

Sorry for not getting back with this light topic I got drawn away to another problem I still trying to solve, as for a light meter I find the camera histogram really useful and does the job, I do a few shots at the start to fine tune then take it from there. My next step is to do a indoor sports event. Hope I dont mess that up but will post results once I get the chance to do the event.

[hus]

Ok, seems I missed this to start with.

A very simple formula to get yourself in the ball park to start with

Aperture = Guide Number(of your flash) divided by Distance(flash to subject)
Example - Cheap Ebay type flash - YN-460 has a guide number of 28(sold as 33 but from all reports it is 28)
Distance to subject - 5 mt

Aperture = 28(our guide number) divided by 5 (our flash distance to our subject)
Aperture = 5.6

You can now fine tune your flash output, distance or aperture to get the exact exposure you want, but you are close to start with.
currently my flashes are a canon 380ex and a sigma 430st.
I really have to work on bouncing the lighting to soften the image more. :th3::th3:

[TriggerHappy2010]

I have been toying with the idea of being a strobist and have been doing a bit of research before investing my hard earned cash. If I may offer some advice: Youtube is brilliant for the beginner strobist. I am a particular fan of www.lightenupandshoot.com and 'mikeyorange' is their user name on Youtube and they have proved to be a great source of information, not to mention Mikey and Andy are pretty funny too. Even if you are not into being a strobist, you should check out their work and what they are doing, quite inspirational.

Anyhow, check out Youtube, you wont regret it.


Regards,


Trigger

[hus]

Will do, all info is good info :th3: