DIY printing machines at Stores:::::

[leanneqld]

Its been 4 years since I had any of my photos printed. I will be getting some done soon and have a question about cropping my photos in PS before I get them printed. I just read Trix's post about his image resizing question but it didn't really answer my question.

If I crop a photo to remove unwanted elements I have always used the non-dimension, feehand crop tool , almost always results in a non-format weird size. Which is fine for posting pics on the web.
But if I'm printing them off at Harvey Norman, or K-Mart etc and I dont want to have to have bits cut off to fit their template, what should I do in post processing?
Should I use the 6x4 crop and get as close as I can to how I really want it look when cropped or do I crop it as I please and then somehow re-size it back to the 6x4 format ( in which case it will look distorted?)

Also, if i have my 6x4's ready to go and decide I want to print a 10x8, is it better to crop a separate 10x8 size in Photoshop for printing, or use the 6x4 and let the machine in store sort out the resizing?

Thanks

[kiwi]

crop to the same ratio as you want printed. You can do this beforehand (preferable) or on the kiosk

eg, if you are getting 8x10" prints, crop in 4x5 ratio first

If you don't when the prints are done they will either lop bits of your non standard file or add white borders top and bottom or sides depending on the ratio

If I know that I am also going to do say a 5x7 I would take a copy of the original and crop to that ratio and print that one

[old dog]

I usually and it has only been a few times, process my pics, crop to size, before I get them printed. That is after I have fixed them just for the computer and the web I`ll set them up for printing. Havn`t done any 10 x 8`s yet but I`d crop them to that exact size and not let them do things to 6 x 4`s to fit in there. Any of that make sense Leanne...hope so...:) Also agree with Darren.

[leanneqld]

THanks guys, and it makes sense. But I still don't know about my feehand cropping when it leaves a non 6x4 size in Photoshop.
I usually have the dimensions blank and the resolution blank in which case it crops to a 72ppi . I'm guessing that I should use the 6x4 crop at 300 ppi and move the dimensions box til I get a crop I can live with?

[kiwi]

hang on, youre talking two different things here.

72ppi is the pixel density (quality) of the file, you should print at least 240ppi. It just affects the file size from a kb point of view, not the dimensions necessarily. You dont want to change the dimensions or the file size from the original at all

save your PSD file as a full size 240 or 300ppi file. Just cropt it to the right ratio for printing first

[leanneqld]

Hey Kiwi,
I started talking about 1 thing but when I checked what I was trying to explain in Photoshop I found out that I have a 2 pronged problem. I didn't realise that the way I had been cropping my pics saved them at 72ppi automatically. ie I have been cropping freehand without any preset dimensions and my pics had been saved at 72ppi.
Photoshop's crop tool with preset dimensions uses 300 ppi.

[arthurking83]

The alternative option is that if you crop to an non standard size, and want to print to a standard size, you can resize the canvas(or add a border) to create a standard size, leaving a border that is different thicknesses at the sides compared to the top and bottom edges.

So if you cropped to 16:9, you can still print to a 4x6 format, so in that case you would have panorama bars top and bottom to fit the wide aspect ratio to the rectangular format.

Also note: All my images are basically in 4x6 format, and the Kodak machines at Officeworks didn't cater to that format! :confused: It was either in 5x7 or 4x5 (aspect ratio) to any standard size, and I wasn't going to compromise, so I took my card back home and added a border around the images.
Had I known that in the first place I would have scanned and cropped to the formats that they cater too. This was an old photo scan->print job for my mum, and @ 10c per print and over 200 images it turned out fairly cheap for her.

[ameerat42]

Leanne, sorry for the info overload to follow...

[ameerat42]

Leanne, I have re-organised your various points to answer in sequence, not necessairly in your original order.

Q1:
If I crop a photo to remove unwanted elements I have always used the non-dimension, feehand crop tool , almost always results in a non-format weird size. Which is fine for posting pics on the web.
AND

...But I still don't know about my feehand cropping when it leaves a non 6x4 size in Photoshop...

A1. Since you're stuck with their paper sizes, consider putting a couple of "odd" images onto one sheet. Prepare the composite image in PS first. You could then cut them out into their original "odd" sizes from the final print.

Q2.
Should I use the 6x4 crop and get as close as I can to how I really want it look when cropped or do I crop it as I please and then somehow re-size it back to the 6x4 format ( in which case it will look distorted?)

A2. Now you say "cropping" and I think you mean the "Crop" tool, but if you do, then consider using the "Rectangular Marquee" tool instead. (It's the very 1st in CS2, anyway.) Then set it to "Fixed Aspect Ratio" in the top bar. (Do not use Fixed Size at this point.) Now make your selection in the image, and note that you can move the selection marquee around in the image using the cursor keys. (If it doesn't seem to budge, click once with the tool inside the marquee. If it moves part of the image, check you haven't switched to the adjacnt "Move" tool.)

When you have what you want, either do an Image-Crop, or as I prefer, Copy and Paste the selection into a new image. This way you save any inadvertent damage to the original image.

Now, to get it to, say, you desired 6-inch x 4-inch SIZE (it's already in the 6x4 format) do the following...
From the menus, check the Image-Size. It will probabaly already be larger than 6-inch x 4-inch if it's from almost any digital camera. So, to maintain the image size in pixels (and some of its IQ), Re-size the image back to 6"x4" BUT make sure that the box "Resample Image" is left UN-ticked. You will see an increase in the DPI to maintain the actual pixels.

Almost finally, save that image and it will be actually 6" x 4" (in most programs I've used). You can apply the procedure to any format you want, 8x10, etc.

Q3.
Also, if i have my 6x4's ready to go and decide I want to print a 10x8, is it better to crop a separate 10x8 size in Photoshop for printing, or use the 6x4 and let the machine in store sort out the resizing?

A3. Do it yourself, as you have more control over what you get. It's easy to get distracted in a store environment and have to pay for a mistake. The mistake here would arise from trying to match the non-equal formats, 6x4 and 10x8.

Finally, there will be NO distortion of the original picture dimensions.

Apologies if a bit long-winded, and if unclear on anything, pls ask. Am.

[Allann]

Leanne, many printing companies will print non-standard sizes on request, and if want bigger than 6x4, 7x5 prints it may be worthwhile using something other than kiosks, I can highly recommend www.digilab.com.au (http://www.digilab.com.au) who recently printed a metalic print 244x71 cm, a very non-standard size.

[leanneqld]

THanks everyone for replies and explanations. I understand what you are saying.

I have diagrams now-it should better explain what I am having a problem with...

1. original image (just any pic I found for demonstration)pixel dimensions 3872x2592
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4541941951_4fa9e8918b_o.jpg

2.crop tool used to crop where I want, no preset dimensions
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4541941959_5b61849834_o.jpg

3.Now i have a non standard image size with pixel dimensions 3526 x2190
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4541941963_9751e17351_o.jpg

4. Result this is not a 6x4 size, nor a 3x5 etc..it is no uniform standard size. I drew the 6x4 box around it in red to show what the standard size would look like.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2732/4541941965_1c68c28682_o.jpg


Its this type of haphazard cropping I am having the problem with-Making how I want my crop to be into a 6x4 standard size.


Maybe there isn't a way? Maybe I should just place the 6x4 crop as near as I can to how I envisage the final pic?

( I hope you understand the above, lol)
Thanks

[kiwi]

Step 2 is your problem, you want to choose the crop ratio before you crop (eg 4x6), the crop tool allows you to do that before you crop, just after you click on the crop tool.

Im not sure why in Step 1 is says 72dpi by default, I would have thought it would say 300 dpi

You should not have to touch image size at all as a rule.

[leanneqld]

yeah thanks kiwi, looks like it as I suspected, haphazzard cropping is OK if you don't want to print.
Thanks again everyone :)

[OzzieTraveller]

G'day LeanneQld

To answer your original Q - at ANY photo store, select the pix you desire to print, next screen will flash an "Edit" button at you - choose desired print size, then "Zoom & Crop" then "No Crop" then "Print"

Regards, Phil

[ameerat42]

yeah thanks kiwi, looks like it as I suspected, haphazzard cropping is OK if you don't want to print.
Thanks again everyone :)

Leanne, I don't want to sound or be prescriptive, but this statement of yours is hard to understand. Just why?

Furthermore, I understand from your latest post (with the images) that your resultant image will not match your desired print size of 6"x4". Looking at your illustrations, two things are clear:

1) Your original image is in the 6x4 format, (actually it is 3x2, but no matter).

2) You then make a non-specific crop of that image (you say "haphazard", that's OK).

If you then desire to have the resultant image print to fully fit a 6"x4" paper, then it will not. They will not match. BUT, I don't see why you label it a problem.

Take your last image, showing the 6"x4" crop in red. I suspect that you would have liked the whole image to be printed on a 6"x4" paper, including the part that the 6x4 crop eliminates. This can be done, but to get the WHOLE image you'll have to put up with some top and bottom white border. OTHERWISE, as you hinted before, you'll distort the image proportions.

From the many replies so far, all of this has been covered.

My only "advice" (and I hate the word) is, don't worry about the perceived 6"x4" paper limitation. Heck! Print on larger paper then cut out what you don't want.

To give you my own "problem" (not): My camera produces 4x3 image format. I just print on the same 6"x4" paper and end up with white borders down the sides. Excellent for handling the prints, and the whole image is still there.

Now I #%$_)(*^%^&%$, it's the last I'll hound you on the subject.

Good luck, Am.

[leanneqld]

HI Am, thanks for your reply as well.

This pic was just an example to give an idea how once you cropped out bits of a photo that you dont want then you are left with something that doesn't fit nice and snug in the shop's 6x4 format for printing. People crop out all kinds of things from photos, a tree, part of a bystander not relevant to the scene, etc etc After you do this you lose the original size of the photo that was taken in camera. I prefer to have the photo's just right ...no messing about in the store and having parts of the photo missing or sides with borders.

when i want to actually print a photo i will use photoshops 6x4 @300ppi or the 8x10 etc etc and place it where it best looks. no big deal, it will be ok.