what steps do i need to take to get a company started help please

[JC_PHOTOGRAPHY]

ok first step is making a company name
2nd registering an abn
3rd registering business name
4thregistering url and buy hosting am i correct with these also do people know costs of all this thanks in advance for any or all the help u can give:th3:

[buc2]

Hi Jc,
Why do you want a company? If you just keep it as a business the costs will be much cheaper and easier to manage. Getting an ABN is easy and can be done in about 10 mins on the net, The same goes for getting a business name. If your business turns over 500k+ then I would go for the company. Good luck.

[MarkChap]

My first suggestion would be to seek professional advice

Each business structure, Company, Family Trust, Sole Trader, Partnership etc, all have varied and many advantages and disadvantages with regards to tax etc. Getting the wrong one can be a bigger limit on your business than you realise

[James T]

Don't go for a company unless you really know what you're doing. Well, don't go for any unless you know what you're doing. You need an ACN to go with your ABN if you form a company, along with a big heap of other hassles. Sole trader for the win. ;)

[fillum]

You can use a "shelf company" company who do all the company establishment stuff (registration, constitution, share registry, etc, etc). They will also give you 'packs' with all the stuff you need to setup for tax and banking. These days I think they might also handle domain name registration.

Probably best however to go through an accountant who can advise on the best structure for your needs. From memory it cost around $1K to get a company set up about 10 years ago.


Cheers.

[charton]

You can use a "shelf company" company who do all the company establishment stuff (registration, constitution, share registry, etc, etc). They will also give you 'packs' with all the stuff you need to setup for tax and banking. These days I think they might also handle domain name registration.

Probably best however to go through an accountant who can advise on the best structure for your needs. From memory it cost around $1K to get a company set up about 10 years ago.


Cheers.

Have heard shelf company can be risky if the previous name has a bad rep. Dad did a simialiar thing so just be careful.

[maccaroneski]

DEFINITELY seek advice from your accountant in the first instance. If you don't have one, then now's a good time to get one.

Step 1 would be the gaining an understanding of the difference between a company and a sole proprietorship (i.e. business). Your thread title asks about setting up a company, but your proposed steps relate to setting up a business.

Mark nails it precisely in his warnings too.

[maccaroneski]

(For general knowledge and not meaning to give specific advice to the OP as to the relative merits of setting up a company)

Incidentally the concept of a shelf company has changed somewhat. In the past (i.e. pre-internet) an accountant or a solicitor would take the long and laborious steps of setting up a company, including structure constitution etc, get all the doucments drafted, printed, stamped and sent out to them and simply have it sitting quite literally on their shelf. Client then walks in and wants to set up a company, and the accountant / solicitor would take the relatively simple step of changing ownership and name of the company to suit. The original name would either be a number or some generic name like "Red House Investments No. 43". the solicitor / accountant would have paid all the fees, added a charge for their time, and you would usually fork out about $1,000 to $1,200 for the finished package.

Nowadays you can start from scratch and do it online in about an hour (from memory - it's been a couple of years since the last time I did it). You print out all the PDFs etc and Bob's your aunty's live in lover - company is formed in whatever name you want (assuming it's not taken). So the concept of a "shelf company" doesn't really exist any more because there is simply no need for them in the light of the technological advances.

You can (and possibly should) still have a lawyer / accountant do the setting up, but actual registration costs are around $500.

More info here: www.asic.gov.au

[CherylB]

Also check out the ATO website as they have a fair bit of information on the different types of businesses and what the requirements and costs to you are.

http://ato.gov.au/businesses/

[Longshots]

Your relevant state government office will have a great deal of help available.
For Qld this is the link:
http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/
NSW:
www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/

Check Google with fair trading. These departments will have plenty of information and guidance to help you start in business.

[johndom]

In my experience, people who are starting out as a photographer are best working initially as a sole trader.
register a business name, get an abn, then insurance, website etc. relatively simple.
You only need to become a company once your income gets to a certain point, my accountant said about 70k after tax.
Hire an accountant to do your bas and income tax, someone who understands the industry, ask peers, even email a bunch of photographers to get an idea. (Hey start a thread here! Ill read it) The accountant should also be able to give you a bit of advice on various business advice requirements.
Also in NSW Dept fair trading has set up small business centres around the place, check them out there is some good free advice to be found there.

[Redgum]

JC, if you don't know what you're doing in this area, don't do it. Do as Mark suggests, get qualified advice.
Primarily the different entities, sole trader, partnership etc., the individual/s retain legal responsibility and if anything untoward happens (you go broke) the individual gets sued. All assets are at risk.
With a proprietary company a separate legal entity is established and the risk of losing your assets is lessened (but not completely gone - directors guarantees come to mind).
In broad terms unless you are making a profit a proprietary company has little value. Also a turnover benchmark of around $50k is often used before considering change. This figure is usually related to hobby income and is less costly tax wise. With a proprietary company you also have additional annual fees and a reporting requirement.
See a qualified person and save heaps of grief and money. BTW: ASIC is the controlling body for proprietary companies and above.

[kiwi]

are you a sole trader ?

[maccaroneski]

are you a sole trader ?

Unless he has already established a company (which I doubt in light of the question), then he is a sole trader, or if someone else has a financial stake in the business, then in a partnership irrespective of whether there are any employees etc.

[Redgum]

Don't forget you can earn up to $50k or thereabouts (hobby income) without becoming a business at all. Just declare your earnings along with your normal wages. The idea of registering as a business/company is to protect all involved.

[Kym]

Ignoring the Company/Partnership/Sole Trader for a now...

Why do you want a company?
IF its for a photographic business then you really need:
a) A good relevant portfolio
b) A REALLY good business plan (that someone has worked over for you e.g. a qualified accountant)
c) A REALLY REALLY solid marking/sales plan !!

[Redgum]

Yep! Plus technical and business skills and ultimately customers. :)

[Gremlin]

can you register a business name for a name other then your own to watermark your images with?
so when ppl ahem borrow them for faceborg etc at least if you posted your images to a flickr/photobucket account, and dont prefer your own name on them can that be done?
odd question yes which sorta I think is inline with this topic?

[Redgum]

can you register a business name for a name other then your own to watermark your images with?
so when ppl ahem borrow them for faceborg etc at least if you posted your images to a flickr/photobucket account, and dont prefer your own name on them can that be done?
odd question yes which sorta I think is inline with this topic?

Sure, that would serve as identification but wouldn't stop the theft of your photos. It would be less costly to place some kind of identification mark (unregistered) on the photos, say your initials. In the end, company/business name or not, you still have to prove ownership and that means revealing your name. Just because a photo has a name on it (unless trademarked) you still have to prove it's yours. A very costly business.

[ricktas]

can you register a business name for a name other then your own to watermark your images with?
so when ppl ahem borrow them for faceborg etc at least if you posted your images to a flickr/photobucket account, and dont prefer your own name on them can that be done?
odd question yes which sorta I think is inline with this topic?

a watermark doesn't really serve a legal purpose. You own copyright over your photos when you press the shutter (unless otherwise contracted away). A watermark is used as a protective mechanism, but in Court serves no purpose. A Court would seek the original file and EXIF data to determine ownership. Anyone could add a watermark saying anything to a photo at any time.

[Redgum]

From first hand experience EXIF data will not serve the purpose either because it can be removed or altered. In court my team spent a day and a half proving we had the right to take the photo (and video) in the first place.
Despite a contract the corporation argued because their logo/TM appeared in the photo, that photo was free for their use. They were willing to pay for others. We settled out of court. Hence my remarks about ownership being an expensive business and diplomatic solutions far wiser.

[Erin]

ok first step is making a company name
2nd registering an abn
3rd registering business name
4thregistering url and buy hosting am i correct with these also do people know costs of all this thanks in advance for any or all the help u can give:th3:

Up until recently, I used to register company and business names and do all sorts of stuff with that... here's general info I can give you.

Please note, this is general advice only, not legal advice. Always seek professional advice before starting a business... anyway...

Companies and businesses are very different things. You want to do the latter, rather than the former. You're not a corporation.

If you're using a name anything other than your own name for trading purposes, you will need to register your business name with the governing body in your state. You CAN, however, use "Your Name - Trading As Your Business Name" and not have to register a business name. (Rules may have changed in the last three years, though so check this out for yourself.)

You really only need an ABN if you're going to be turning over more than $50K a year. Unless you're earning that significant amount, you do not need to charge GST and therefore have no need to register for it. Most people get them for wholesaler discounts and whatnots and of course to get a .com.au address (as opposed to just a .com).

You can buy domains from most hosts as part of a package, but it's worth your while doing a heck of a lot of investigation. If you're planning on claiming your costs for tax purposes, you will need to make sure you purchase Australian hosting as well as domain registration. Domain Central is the cheapest I've found for Aussie domain names, about $40 for two years registration with a com.au address.

Unfortunately Australian hosting is exxy compared to our USA counterparts. However there are deals to be had. You'll be looking, on average, about $10/month for hosting on a very basic plan with most hosting companies.

BEFORE ALL THAT, HOWEVER...

Seek business advice - most states have this facility available - as to the legalities of what you need to start a new business including insurance, GST, necessary contracts, etc.
Write a detailed business plan including your (realistic) goals.
Seek financial advice as to the costs involved and how to offset any or all costs against your tax.

Remember you will lose money before you make money. You will need to invest in marketing and advertising. There's lots of free ways to do this but there's the option of paid ads in relevant magazines, newspapers, events, etc. However in order to do this you need to invest time, most importantly, to getting a great portfolio out there.

[Redgum]

Can I suggest that there is a rather lengthy thread on this very issue elsewhere in the forum. Rather than repeat ourselves a quick search will bring forth the answers on setting up a business. :)

[ScottM]

Haven't worked as a professional photographer - obviously lol - but have worked for myself in IT as a sole proprietor.

I agree with the other posts though. I looked into both being a sole proprietor and as a company, and decided for my purposes that a sole propreitor was better for me.

A few points to consider:
insurance - public liability, professional indemnity, and worker's compensation. Certain components will need to be paid by yourself or the 'business' and be shown to undertake some work.
income - with a proprietership you're allowed to 'withdraw' from the 'business' at any time, but this it's complicated when operating as a business and needs to be better tracked and recorded.
expenses - with a company your processes need to be tighter, and have certain 'company' policies in place. The documentation requirements are somewhat higher.
reporting - with a company you do need to report to the ASX a balance sheet and a profit/loss statement.
BAS - this was the killer for me when working for myself, and led me to obtaining a full time employed position. The ATO will require you to declare _expected_ income in the prior quater, and to pay tax effectively in advance. If you're running as a company, reporting and payment is more infrequent. So if your income is more irregular, including waiting and waiting and maybe even waiting for payment, you'll probably pay out of savings rathert than an everyday-type business account. And the ATO's projections are never correct...
superannuation - if operating as a company, you will need to set yourself up as an employee. In which case the company is required to pay superannuation for you. If a sole proprietor, this is your responsibility.

You do only need to have an ABN if you're earning more than 50k per year. I think you probablly need to do some _realistic projections_, seek _professional advice_ and work out what would be best for yourself _long term_. (As implied, I considered it best for myself to get out of what I was in, primarily because of the ATO, about 4 yrs ago.)

Happy to provide more info, but not 'advice' as that's an accountant/specialist's domain :)

Good luck either way :)

Cheers,

Scott.

[maccaroneski]

Careful readers, there is some dodgy advice in this thread.

From the NSW Department of Fair Trading (and I believe this legislation is duplicated in all other states):


Under the Business Names Act 2002, if you choose a name for your business that is not your own name then you must register the name with the Office of Fair Trading. For example, if your name is Julie Smith and you are trading under ‘Julie Smith’s Salon’, registration of that name is compulsory.

Further, from the ATO:


All businesses with a GST turnover of $75, 000 or more must register for GST and will need an ABN to do this.

Note that turnover is a separate concept from taxable earnings.

[Erin]

Thanks for the clarification, maccaroneski. At the time when I was in the industry, it was permissible to have a trading name in line with your real name. And it looks like the turnover has gone up $25K. Cool.