Come on people!

[smallfooties]

Where are all film shooters in this forum? The 'No pixel challenge' has become dormant again!
Bring some life to it by posting your pictures!:action:

[arthurking83]

Where are all film shooters in this forum? .....

A sign of the times!

I was in at Vanbar's the other week, and had a quick peek at their film stock levels.
The fridge is located near the tripod section, and seriously, they'd have had maybe a few doz rolls of whatever brand/type/poison in about three of four rows.
Barely 50-100 rolls in all, in a fridge that takes up far too much floor space that could be better utilized selling stuff that actually sells!

[Krzys]

Let us frolic in our film section without crap like that please.

As I've said before, active film shooters have no motivation to post in a film challenge because they are shooting nothing else.

[arthurking83]

.....

As I've said before, active film shooters have no motivation to post in a film challenge because they are shooting nothing else.

:confused:

So!!.. by extension of that philosophy.. active digital photography shooters, shouldn't have the motivation to participate in most challenges(as the default process nowadays is via digital) because they shoot nothing else too? :confused013

I can't see a reason to make any distinction between the two formats.

That kind of logic doesn't make sense to me.

[Kym]

There are a few active film enthusiasts here on AP that shoot film regularly.
Maybe? half a dozen members out of 1,541 that visited the site since 2010-01-01.

I'm guessing that 20% or more of the 1,541 used film seriously at some time in there lives. Lets say 300.

So 6 of 300 is 2% which roughly corresponds to industry numbers about the film market today compared to where it was in the 90's (actually more like < 1%).

This is the digital age.

[Krzys]

rightly said kym, close this section

[arthurking83]

Why?

Are you offended by it?

Is there any potential for it to cause some kind of backlash?

Over reaction is not the answer... participation is.

There's no reason to close any section/thread/topic unless there is a potential to cause an adverse affect on the members, or the site's future

[Kym]

rightly said kym, close this section

No, there are enthusiasts as yourself, and we're more than happy for the Film forum.

Its just the the OP is asking where are all the film people and all I'm showing is that there are not many.

Film is a small (but interesting) niche.
However the vast majority of members will never use film (from now on).

Its not a put down - just being a realist - don't expect most people to get into your interest.

[Miaow]

No, there are enthusiasts as yourself, and we're more than happy for the Film forum.

Its just the the OP is asking where are all the film people and all I'm showing is that there are not many.

Film is a small (but interesting) niche.
However the vast majority of members will never use film (from now on).

Its not a put down - just being a realist - don't expect most people to get into your interest.

Agree film is a bit of a niche thing now - i'd like to try it once or twice more as an experiment on my settings on camera more than the effect on film - time wise at the present i don't have the time (in any sense of development wise) really to do it - also our only film camera isnt really in one piece :D

[hoffy]

Kryzs, take it on the chin mate. They keep on dangling the bait and you keep on biting. Each time you bite, you are only making yourself look worse.

But, that being said, I don't really think the wind up was necessary. Yes We are all very much aware that 99.9% of photographers will now never shoot a roll of film ever (again). It keeps on being drummed into us time and time again.

But, there are some that do and having a section here means that we should be made feel welcome, not like we are some freaks who live in the 19th century.

Anyhow, back to the original topic. I have one roll of Fuji 400H that I have to pick up from the lab (includes neg scans). I have 3 rolls of B&W sitting in the cupboard that need developing and then printing (I don't neg scan B&W. I find for online display, print scans are much better. Plus, I'd rather be printing then scanning). Once I get some of these files, I'll make sure I post them.

[swifty]

I got about 90 shots over the last 2 months. I know that doesn't seem much but the keeper rates are well above my digital ones.
I'm still waiting on my V700 which'll come this month so that's why I'm not posting.
Anyways.. who gives what medium you use. What does it matter?
Seriously... do whatever makes you happy.

[Kym]

@Hoffy
I agree. But I should make a few things clear.

The point is that we (AP management) do welcome and enjoy film shooters and their work.

But when it becomes either a 'martyr' or 'superiority' issue ("film is 'real' photography") and
other sentiments then getting upset when the number of film enthusiasts is low,
or ignored, or not supported, or no "ooo ah Glenn McGrath" reactions by most members
it all gets a bit thin.

When comments like "Sadly the 'candid' section is central for baby photos" and
other put down are published we (the mods) have a gutfull.

Another thing we had to kill was the hi-jacking of new members asking which DSLR they
should get by comments like "use film via a Nikon F8", and "get a rangefinder" etc.
Totally irrelevant and not helpful in this age.

Like ANY genre - people should get out and shoot, process and publish;
and above all enjoy it and have fun.
Some people like wildlife/birds, others landscape, others people etc.
Some genre's rock people's boat, other don't - so what!

In the AP is here to support all forms of photography. No one is exclusive.

Personally: I know you shoot both film and digital; and you enjoy both
and do a pretty fine job in several genres.
I have significant interest in your work because it has a certain style,
and its always welcome here on AP.

[smallfooties]

I was only trying to motivate people to post their shots in the challenge... I didn't have any ill intentions! :(

[arthurking83]

I was only trying to motivate people to post their shots in the challenge... I didn't have any ill intentions! :(

Don't take it to heart SF.

You did nothing wrong other than to rally some support for a format that may soon be gone.
Nothing wrong with that, and my comment was only meant as a factual footnote.. and definitely not as a form of belittlement of film or its proponents.

The fact remains that of the currently active members, you'd be hard pressed to find more than 1% of them shooting film.
Taking into account some of them may be busy with other aspects of life, and how the convenience of digital is just so overwhelming, so why would they bother to go back to film again.. etc, etc....
it was never going to be a hive of activity.. it's still going to be interesting to see the results tho.

[Krzys]

May soon be gone? Tell that to the folks shooting super 8 cine or wet plate photographers.

I still find nothing but negativity in your post, best keep that out of this section. Out of respect perhaps? Since you're doing a good job of making that last 1% feel unwelcome.

I'm off to go party with the 38,000 odd members of APUG.

[arthurking83]

May soon be gone? Tell that to the folks shooting super 8 cine or wet plate photographers.

and when he passes on to the darkroom in the sky.. it's basically all over red rover


... I still find nothing but negativity in your post, best keep that out of this section. Out of respect perhaps? Since you're doing a good job of making that last 1% feel unwelcome.

I think it's all too easy to mis-read people's intentions. Even if I were still actively shooting film today, my opinion of the stuff would still be the same, and my comments would still be the same. Non negative, and more accurately described as .... pragmatic.


... I'm off to go party with the 38,000 odd members of APUG.

Enjoy! :party6:

[MattC]

Arthur - as much as I am not as enthusiastic about film as Krzys is, I do find you original and subsequent posts deliberately baiting and unnecessary - if you don't like film, that's fine - no need to stir up shit in this part of the forum though.

[hoffy]

While others may see it on its death bed (& yes, those films that are harder to process or oddball formats have gone are starting to go), I put it to you this way.

Did they stop making paint brushes and paints when photography itself started to become popular?

While there are people still happy to get their hands dirty making a picture, film and film based photography will continue to exist.

[arthurking83]

.... I do find you original and subsequent posts deliberately baiting and unnecessary - if you don't like film, ....

:confused:

You guys should really stop being so defensive about stuff like this, and also cease with this ability to read intentions in a reply that simply aren't there... ESPECIALLY KRYZS!!
Where are the expletives or smileys that imply any level of negativity towards film, or condescension on my part?

My comment was made as pure observation, with no emotion, nor any reason to gain anything from it!
There is no intent on my part to procure any reprisal from anyone.

THEN we have this from our esteemed emulsion expert:


Let us frolic in our film section without crap like that please.

As I've said before, active film shooters have no motivation to post in a film challenge because they are shooting nothing else.

NOW!! I'm probably misreading this quote a little bit too, as some of you seem to have done with my replies(to which I'll explain in more detail soon).
From Krzys's reply there, he wants all non film enthusiasts to not enter any correspondence into his section of AP, and then on the other hand, he's now so tired of shooting film, he's got no motivation to post in the section he's trying to protect ... from the likes of me! :confused013
So he doesn't want us replying, and he doesn't want to post in there, so where does that leave this section of the forum?

The SOLE purpose of having a 'No Pixels Challenge' is to have a purely non digital challenge section where images captured with the use of non digital techniques can be shared. if you lack the motivation to upload to that section, I think your commitment to those mediums is questionable.

NOW! As to the purpose of my reply and how it came about.
I was in Vanbars the other week. I was there with a friend looking for photographic equipment as she's about to enter into photography. main reason I took her into Vanbars is for their range of bags, and it's not far from the city. They also have a large tripod variety(and she wants tripod too).
Whilst there, I also wanted a couple of GND's to replace my heavily worn filters that are now useless. For Christmas I was given a $100 credit card :confused: Basically a gift card to the value of $100 with a Visa insignia.
My two filters came in at approx $80something and I still had about $20 credit remaining, which I thought was kind'a silly to have sitting there, and I wanted to use it up. Went to the 'film section' which comprises less than a quarter of the fridge now, which represents half again as the other fridge I remember there some time back is now gone. Obviously there film sales have nosedived to the point where they now keep significantly less stock than they once used too, which I vividly remember to be there. The larger range of tripods have taken hold of the space that used to be occupied by the fridge full of film!

Needless to say a roll of film was acquired with the remainder of the credit available, and now resides deep within the innards of my lil Rollei 35.

... along with a few dollars remaining in the ether of credit card cyberspace, as I can't be bothered using it up(what can you get for approx $2.37 :confused013)

That's how simple my reply was!
No malicious intent, no condescending tone, no patronizing attitude.. nothing!

[Gregg Bell]

While others may see it on its death bed (& yes, those films that are harder to process or oddball formats have gone are starting to go), I put it to you this way.

Did they stop making paint brushes and paints when photography itself started to become popular?

While there are people still happy to get their hands dirty making a picture, film and film based photography will continue to exist.

Its abit like the rollerballs and ballpoint pens, fountain pens may be a dying art, but there are enthusiasts keeping it alive. I would love to join in, but i barely have an extra dough for a new rangefinder yet, I want to get a Bessa, and see how I go with that.

[ricktas]

May soon be gone? Tell that to the folks shooting super 8 cine or wet plate photographers.

I still find nothing but negativity in your post, best keep that out of this section. Out of respect perhaps? Since you're doing a good job of making that last 1% feel unwelcome.

I'm off to go party with the 38,000 odd members of APUG.

Good. Bye!

[MattC]

And another gets banned for upsetting one of the few...:rolleyes:

[ricktas]

And another gets banned for upsetting one of the few...:rolleyes:

Actually Matt, without going into details, the member had previously been warned repeatedly, been temporarily banned in the past, and there is a lot more to this than is visible on the site.

[hoffy]

Rick, I agree with Matt. This doesn't look good, when, again at face value, you ban someone because they have mentioned another forum.

That being said, for someone like Kryzs, APUG is probably a better place to hang out then here. Me, meh....

[ricktas]

This has nothing to do with APUG! it has to do with the attitude a member had on the site, over a long period of time and repeated warnings (and a prior temporary ban). He himself stated in a thread that he happily baits members, and we got sick of it. The mods and I all discussed this before he was banned. This was not taken lightly and is not an isolated response to this thread. This ban was a response to long ongoing issues, many of which are not visible to members.

[Gregg Bell]

First off, I don't know how arthurking interpreted Krzys's posts, but I never got that message from reading his posts. It almost sounded like you were trying to put words in his mouth. I think Kym missed out on the joke about closing this section as well. I think sometimes you guys needed to lighten up.

I interpreted Kyrzs's response to that, he wants those who are against film to keep their opinion out of the film section, and then on the other hand, he shoots so much film that he sees no point to participate in a no pixels challenge because it is aimed for digital photographers to share their film experience.

Seems like staff came to a conclusion already, This is just my 2 cents though.

[ricktas]

First off, I don't know how arthurking interpreted Krzys's posts, but I never got that message from reading his posts. It almost sounded like you were trying to put words in his mouth. I think Kym missed out on the joke about closing this section as well. I think sometimes you guys needed to lighten up.

I interpreted Kyrzs's response to that, he wants those who are against film to keep their opinion out of the film section, and then on the other hand, he shoots so much film that he sees no point to participate in a no pixels challenge because it is aimed for digital photographers to share their film experience.

Seems like staff came to a conclusion already, This is just my 2 cents though.

As I have said, the decision was not based solely on the content of this thread, it was based on on-going issues over an extended period.

Thread closed.

[arthurking83]

....

I interpreted Kyrzs's response to that, he wants those who are against film to keep their opinion out of the film section, and then on the other hand, he shoots so much film that he sees no point to participate in a no pixels challenge because it is aimed for digital photographers to share their film experience.

Seems like staff came to a conclusion already, This is just my 2 cents though.

everyone is entitled to an opinion on AP and as long as it doesn't come across as 'illegal'(ie. racist/defamatory/etc) we are all allowed to express it.
There was no negativity in my comments, and other members re-interpreted my comments as they saw fit too.. with the end result that most replies became off topic.
I thought my comment was on topic, as the OP expressed concern that the film section was a little bereft of participation. I chose to explain my observations as to why that is.

As to the topic of participation and lacking in motivation!.. that's the lamest argument I've ever heard!(I did have that in mind when Krzys made his point) but that would be exactly like(any of us saying)..

"I shoot digital, so I can't be stuffed posting any images"

if that's not the most conceited/arrogant attitude I've ever come across!....(I dunno what is).

The forum section is not for the sole purpose of any one particular individual to use.
As long as the replies do not deteriorate into name calling and baiting and suchlike they are all allowed to be presented.
The film section is not immune to criticism and general points of view from anyone despite their perceived biases.

And I really would love to know where people get the idea that I(or anyone else) is AGAINST film!!?? :confused013
Never been against it.. ever! I loved the stuff.. way back when. But digital has only shown how inconvenient it really is(was).

My comments about film(here and on other forums) have never been that it should be stopped because of a bias against it.. They are all simple commentary. Read as they were typed, without any innunedo other than the specific words I've used.
That is, film is a dying medium. It hasn't died yet, but the long term outlook is that it will die, at some unknown future time production of the stuff will cease. It has to cease.
By simple logic and deduction... there is ultimately no future for it(the only question is WHEN!) as production costs increase, and consumer demand decrease, therefore production costs increasing again at disproportionate levels.. Kodak at some point will stop production of film. They can't continue manufacture a product at a loss for too long(and survive in business). The cost of factories/human resources are only ever going to increase, and the raw material(derived form the petrochemical industry) are only going to skyrocket too!!

So who's going to pay $100 per roll in a few years time?
Which stockist is going to tie up all that money, for long term gain, when there's more money to be made selling stuff that sells.

My comments(opinions) are based on what I perceive as logical, and therefore inevitable.. and not based on someone's misinterpretation!(no bias).

If some folks want to bury their heads in the sand and not accept a possible uncertain future for photographic film as it is now, or alternatively, an uber expensive product.. they are more than welcome to express those opinions too. No one is going to stop them.
($30ish for a roll of 135 is about the maximum I'll ever endure).

Compared to digital capture, film is archaic and inconvenient.. YET!! there are always a few good reasons to use film over digital... eg. arge format, and 'AFAIK' X-Ray.
My understanding of X-Ray imaging is that film is still better(higher quality).

But those markets are few and far between and specialised, compared to the average mass market use of film for photography. They'll all go by the wayside, and the future for digital is set, where we really have nothing else to turn too. The devices used to capture digital images may change, but the technical aspect of capturing on digital appears to be set for a long time.
it's my plain and unemotional and unbiased outlook for the future of capturing images.

To me film is a lot like the evolutionary change that happened to the wheel.

Stone-> wood-> steel/alloys/plastics/etc and rubber -> next development stage?.

I don't get emotional over the loss of the stone or wooden wheel as the connection between my car and the road! It's just not worth arguing over :p

So now that we've definitively taken the OP's thread way off topic.. lets try to get it back on topic, and explain why those with a small glimmer of romantic notion towards film have yet to post up their non-digital images?

My reasons so far have been time, and a lack of any film stock up until a few weeks ago. I have exposed 10 of the 36 frames so far, and look to have the roll finished in the next few weeks. Once it's processed, I'll upload the (new) film images I've managed to get correct.
Hopefully in the next few weeks, I'll also upload any of the scans of old photos I've taken 30 or more years ago.
ATM,too busy looking/sorting/processing/uploading my (easier to manage) digital images.
(that's not a bias!... it's a statement of fact! :D).