RAM issues - should I upgrade or downsize images?

[mal from cessnock]

Let me run this one by you...

I have a 5DM2 and get messages from PS that I don't have enough memory. This is frustrating when you have almost finished working on an image.

I get these messages when making a selection (msg says that due to a program error the program must close)

I get them when doing HDRs with 2 or more images.

I need to restart my computer to temporarily fix the issue until next time. This can happen four or five times in an eight hour session. Grrr!

I have 3 Dell XP pcs - all on service contracts (less than 3yrs old). I rang support and was informed they are all maxed out with RAM! I have 4gig on all systems. I was horrified but need to address this issue.

The way I see it is I need to upgrade to XPS (64bit) systems so I can increase RAM to >4gig or change to MAC Pro. Both expensive fixes.

Real drag when all my software is PC - although I am led to believe that my peripherals will run on MAC.

My friends tell me, "simple, resize your HUGE images so your computer will be able to handle them". I think reducing my images is silly and negates having a 21mega pixel full frame camera.

What really pi$$es me off is PCs allocate a max of 1.3gig of my 4gig to PS whereas Macs apparently alloctate memory on demand.

Do you guys have an opinion on this issue?

[zollo]

Dont know about older versions but on CS4 it tells you the amount of ram it needs for optimal performance, shows you how much available ram you have, and allows you to allocate the amount of ram to use. My CS4 reckons 906 - 1186MB of ram is needed for optimum performance and I have it set to 1170MB. I'm running it on a 2.66Mhz dual core laptop with 4gb ram and it does everything fine. Check under Edit > Preferences > Performance. It also allows you to select a scratch disk - "For best performance, you should set your scratch disks to be fast drives, internal or, on a fast external interface and not your boot drive"

If you have already done these and its still not working properly you may have to free up/upgrade ram somehow.
*This is where I recede into the background and ask techs to step forward lol*

But really if I can do large files on my lappie you should definitely be able to on yours

[ilminsterpete]

I have CS3 which also lets you decide RAM usage. It will let me allocate up to 1669MB. But I only use an E-1 most of the time so files are small. :)

[ricktas]

4GB should be plenty, agree with the above, check the RAM allocation and Scratch disk inside photoshop.

[Kym]

Google ... photoshop out of memory

There are lots of items on this issue - eg. number of history states etc.

[mal from cessnock]

Thanks people.

Have done ALL that - I have allocated the MAX which for CS4 on my system is 1.3gig - use D as my scratch - clear my history cache (which I have set to 40) when problems arise - all to no avail. Need restarts during every session.

I have a friend with a MAC Book who has 4gig and CS4 tells him he has 4gig which is available! MAC's seem to allocate memory quite differently. People always say MACs are better with for graphics than PCs - could this be the reason?

Contributors. Are the files you're working on large ones - like are you shooting with a camera that generates these large file sizes? A PSD for me can often be 320Mb but usually 120Mb.

[arthurking83]

many folks the world over are using PC's for image editing just fine.

With 4Gigs of ram(windows only really recognises(or uses) about 3Gigs in reality.. your 320Mb file should be fine, which still leaves approx 2 gig to play with.

I think this is a pointer to other system issues.. me thinks PS for starters! :p
(seriously tho! I don't use it for anything other than the very occasional healing/cloning... very very rare)

:confused:

[DavidB]

40 history states is huge. Try cutting it down to 10 or so: it can have a big impact on the memory footprint.

You've said you have it set to use D: for scratch. How much free space is there on that drive?

As you've commented, I think downsizing your images is not a good idea. For instance later when you get a better computer setup you'd probably want to reprocess all those images from RAW again to get the best versions of your images. It's usually less work overall to set up the computer appropriately in the first place.

I shoot with a 5Dmk2, and routinely create 16-bit PSDs. I create layers and adjustment layers, and routinely have files larger than 250 MB each. Mind you, most of my images don't get stored as PSD files long-term: they're re-processed directly from the 25MB RAW files by ACR/LR as required. But I do a fair bit of HDR and stitching work, and the composite files do get quite huge.

I currently use two computers (both Macs). One with 3GB RAM, one with 4GB. The 4GB machine is nicer to use (especially as I often have programs other than Photoshop and Lightroom also running all the time) but the 3GB does still work. Definitely when I started using the 5Dmk2 it did slow things down and my next laptop will probably have at least 6GB, but 4 and even 3GB should be OK.


It's not unusual for me to work on composite files wider than 10,000 pixels (stitch a few 21Mp frames together and they get big quickly). In fact in January on a trip I went a bit overboard with one image. I took a panoramic sequence of 25 overlapping frames (across a beach full of Elephant Seals). That night I told my machine (which at the time was a MacBook with 3GB RAM) to stitch them together with Photoshop CS4. It ended up with a huge image with 25 layers. In the end I had to crop it down slightly as Lightroom is currently unable to handle images wider than 30,000 pixels.
The machine struggled under the load (paging to/from the scratch area heavily) and in fact I let it run overnight. I was up in the night and found the stitch had a problem so re-ran it. Woke up early the next day (prior to a dawn engagement with the same seals) and told it to flatten and crop the result. Came back before breakfast and told it to save the file...
That was painfully slow, and I resisted the temptation to do much stitching in the field with that machine for the rest of that trip, but it did work without once complaining of not having enough memory!

[mal from cessnock]

David

Is 40 huge? I'll set it to lower, say 20.

D: is my backup and has heaps of spare room.

Thanks for your indepth response. Maybe I need a MAC (looking at MAC Pros - but very expensive)

[ricktas]

when it happens. Hit CTRL+ALT+DEL to bring up your task manager.

Click processes and then click on the memory usage heading (you might have to click a couple of times to get the largest to the top). What is using up all the memory? That will give you a guide to maybe something running in the background causing additional memory load. Worth a check of, in case you have something else running that is causing this, not PS alone.

[arthurking83]

..... Maybe I need a MAC (looking at MAC Pros - but very expensive)

a cheaper alternative may be to try Bibble Pro! :confused:

I downloaded the trial version and will definitely try it out once I re-install my currently 7 yo install of windows.
All reports(I've read so far) say Bibble is THE fastest full featured image editor. It's more like LR than PS though. Obviously uses fewer system resources.

Actually I should really install it on this current system, and see how it fares.

Anyhow.... maybe I'm on a wild goose chase, but are you sure all your memory hardware is not faulty too?
I suppose it should be OK, as you haven't mentioned any issues with other software.
It shouldn't hurt to run a memtest on your current RAM installation.. or remove a stick at a time and see if that helps too.
Is your RAM hardware config 2 x 2Gb sticks, or 4 x 1gb sticks. Maybe 2 x 1 + 1 x 2 Gb sticks or something??? Some mainboards(like my Gigabyte board) don't like 'mismatched memory' configurations.. ie. you may have to have the exact same types of memory apparently for each slot, and it can become unstable if I use only 3 slots and not the 2 or 4(of 4).


You haven't played with any Windows system settings.. like setting a pre-allocated amount of space for the pagefile.. or something like that? :confused013

[arthurking83]

Oh! and being a Dell, there's a very high probability that you have Norton AV maybe(I think form memory they try to push that as the AV of choice :rolleyes:

If so, remove it and get something that works.... like NOD32! :th3:
(the number of times I removed Norton as a fix to my ex mother in law on her Dell are too numerous to count).

[Invictus]

Just a thought: Try running windows in safe mode, and then try PS

[clm738]

I was reading in "Real World Photoshop CS3 for Photographers" by Conrad Chevas that if you update to 64 bit you should run up to 8G RAM as 64 bit XP pro or Vista can read this amount of memory but you have to have the system to run it.
http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Adobe-Photoshop-Photographers/dp/0321604512/ref=pd_ybh_2?pf_rd_p=280800601&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_i=ybh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0QHA2HMGJR7V5D66MH5J
If you look inside this book on pages 1 - 5 it explains all about RAM needed and system requirements to run CS4 and the corrresponding CS3 book says the same.
Hope this is of some help.

[mal from cessnock]

Oh! and being a Dell, there's a very high probability that you have Norton AV maybe(I think form memory they try to push that as the AV of choice :rolleyes:


Arthur, did that learning curve with my first Dell - seven or eight later, I'm well versed and remove their Anit Virus software before loading it with my software. They now use McAfee. I use Panda.

I've had my memory checked and conclude with a Windows system, 4gig does not cut the mustard. I'm buying an XPS with 8gig excusively for Photo Imaging work and will use this one for email and Office.

Incidentally, I swear by Dell - they are the best! The only place to buy a PC from as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks to everyone who assisted with this thread. Much appreciated.

:th3:

[arthurking83]

In general I agree.

in the majority of cases Dells' support has been more than exemplary, but not only a week ago I recommended my sis to purchase a small footprint desktop system from them.
Three previous experiences, where I've recommended friends family to buy from them have worked out perfectly.
I don't think they have the best value for money(so I prefer to build my own), but for non geeks Dell just work.
But the other week they stuffed up my sis's order and delayed a 3 day turn around for over a week.
I know their delivery routines as I deliver their products sometimes, so when there's a stuff up, they get our company to do the super urgent deliveries.
I enquired about her PC(delivery number and suchlike) at work and the system still wasn't in Melb on the 8th day.. and she was pissed!

Nothing to do with the system, just the dispatch of the PC. She demanded cancellation of the PC and they tried to refuse.. in the end she got her money back.

XP and 2Gig of RAM is fine for editing.. my PC is slow due to a slow system. I know once I refresh my PC's current XP install all will be nice and fast once again.. it's just bloated ATM.

My average NEF size works out to somewhere between 20 and 25Meg which as a TIFF is approx 100Meg.
I don't do layers, HDR and merging and stuff like that but with 4Gig of RAM an insignificant 320M file shouldn't be an issue.. I've had 10 NEF's open all at once with Capture NX2.. and that program is a massive resource hog.. on a much bigger scale than PS is.

I think there are settings issues to resolve more than hardware issues here.

The other option to try may be a trial version of Photomatix, or some other software to see if the issue is PS, the PC, or anything else not previously mentioned.

If you're using a separate HDD as a scratch disk, then in technically the size of your RAM shouldn't be a factor.
I think that's the only reason I get acceptable performance from CaptureNX ATM as I have a very large hdd allocated to temp files/scratch disk for it.

:confused:

[mal from cessnock]

Arthur, I use Photomatix and have the same memory issues with it as I do PS.

A low level format and reinstall would be prudent at this time, but I loath to did it the first time on any PC and I've so many user settings etc to backup if I can locate them in my HD - I know how to backup Outlook (which crashes and reinstalls itself twice weekly); I've worked out how to save my LR data; haven't worked out where Actons are stored etc. The process has become more complicated.

A friend said last night "the problem is Vista" - he claims Windows 7 is the debugged Vista everything should be right when the beta has been tested to MS satisfaction.

BTW I only use Outlook so I can sync my Windows 6.1 mobile - wouldn't use it otherwise. It's a bitch.

Dell - if delivery was the only problem with your sister's order - I'd suck and wait. I once waited a fortnight for delivery but generally I they ship within 5 days. I love their support and onsite arrangements.

Following my recommendations my daughter bought a Dell. She stayed low end and refused to upgrade to a decent spec and can't be bothered tweaking and in general, looking after her system - so her system appears to be a dog. Many people out there think their pc is magic and don't get the concept of it needing routine maintenance.

Many thanks Arthur for your input - you're good value man.

:pirarghh: :pirsmile: :pirmad: :pircool: :pirarghh:

International Talk Like a Pirate Day, me harties!

[arthurking83]

.....

A friend said last night "the problem is Vista" - he claims Windows 7 is the debugged Vista everything should be right when the beta has been tested to MS satisfaction.

....

Aha! OK.. I assumed you had WinXP.. but as I'm now assuming you have Vista installed I think we've found the problem.. Vista it seems is the virus.. and having an AV installed is confusing the PC.. as the OS itself is being quarantined! :p

LOL!.. I haven't 'fully' experienced Vista yet .. only brief glimpses into it(via friends and family).. and having seen that it requires over 1Gig of memory to run... I joyfully still run WinXp.

My next OS will be Win7.

hope you get it sorted though.. one thing I couldn't imagine now, is a non operational image editor!

[Jordan Compte]

David

Is 40 huge? I'll set it to lower, say 20.

D: is my backup and has heaps of spare room.

Thanks for your indepth response. Maybe I need a MAC (looking at MAC Pros - but very expensive)


you don't want a mac, your pc setup is sounding fine enough 4gb?, heck I've only got 2gb and I'm running everything a okay.

What's your processor?, could be a problem if you've got all that ram but no good cpu powering it along ?

[mal from cessnock]

Jordan

I'm running with a Intel Core Duo CPU T9500 @ 2.60GHz - plenty of grunt I would have thought.

Thanks for your contribution - you guys rock.

I think I'm placing an order tomorrow for a Dell XPS 64bit with T9700 processor and 8gig of RAM. You should see their new range of gaming laptops - they call them Alienware and they are look so spunky.

Do you think Vista has anything to do with this problem?

BTW Group, when I'm using PS I don't even have LR or Bridge open and obviously nothing else either.

:cheeky33:

[Invictus]

Mal,
I've been watching this thread for a while now ... I wouldn't want to see you spend money on a new system, if it wasn't really called for.
If I put it in car terms: It sounds like you have a glitch with the fuel supply to the carby when you try to accelerate hard, and your saying you want to replace the whole car because of it? :confused013
Seems a little drastic. :eek:

Has the issue always been present on the system? If not, what changed on the system before or at the time it started? Is it only on Photoshop? Have you installed any new plugins? Did you try running photoshop while the system was in safemode?

You say your running an Intel Core Duo CPU T9500 @ 2.60GHz. Then I would assume your running a notebook, as the T9500 is a mobile processor. (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLAQH) Is the D Drive you use for a scratch disk a seperate drive or another partition on the same drive as C: ?

Did you try the method Rick mentioned about looking at what is using your memory? (below)

when it happens. Hit CTRL+ALT+DEL to bring up your task manager.

Click processes and then click on the memory usage heading (you might have to click a couple of times to get the largest to the top). What is using up all the memory? That will give you a guide to maybe something running in the background causing additional memory load. Worth a check of, in case you have something else running that is causing this, not PS alone.

Two things I would test first -
1 - Disable your plugins / move them to a temporary folder. (AFAIK photoshop has a hard limit of how much memory it allocates for plugins.) Try running PS without any plugins.
2 - Recreate the preferences file:

To re-create the Photoshop preferences files:

1. Quit Photoshop.
2. Rename the Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe Photoshop CS3\Adobe Photoshop CS3 Settings\Adobe Photoshop CS3 Prefs.psp file to Adobe Photoshop CS3 Prefs.old.
3. Start Photoshop. Photoshop creates a new Adobe Photoshop CS3 Prefs.psp file.

Alternatively, use the Adobe troubleshoot checklist.
Troubleshoot system errors or freezes in Photoshop CS4 on Windows Vista (http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404897.html)

Do those, let us know the results, then we can guide you from there. :)

[mal from cessnock]

Invictus - thanks for your interest.

I started using PS at the beginning of this years when I enrolled in an Advanced Photoshop course. I used to use PSP. Most of these memory issues are relatively new. There are three things that happen. 1. When making a selection using the magic wand I sometimes get a message "can't complete the selection due to a program error" grrr, like this helps! Sometimes the messages are useless. 2. When using NikSoftware and 3. When using Photomatix as stand alone or as a plugin.

Since my number 1. occurs I can't say it's only a plugin problem.

I used D: a separate disk drive (ie not a partition of C:) as my scatch and save all files to external H: and back that up to I:

I will try Ricktas memory check and your suggestions and get back to you.

Maybe I just need to reformat - atm PS won't even open (this often happens with Outlook) - need a restart - talk later.

[Kym]

Excellent post Invictus!!


Maybe I just need to reformat - atm PS won't even open (this often happens with Outlook) - need a restart - talk later.

That's a big clue!! Something is very wrong if that's an issue.

[mal from cessnock]

Keeping you people in the loop ...

Thank you everyone for your help.

Having backed everything up, I'm doing a low level format tonight.

I expect to resolve the problem of system instability and I'll let you know if this process also solves my memory issues.

I'm putting off the purchase of a new system for now :eek:

Cheers, Mal from Cessnock
http://crafthouse.net.au

[Invictus]

No worries Mal, let us know how it goes. :th3:

[mal from cessnock]

This was a major issue for me and I am hoping it is now solved.

I called Dell - they replaced the mother board and I re-installed the OS. I am now only using this pc for Photoshop and Lightroom. I had an older one I brought out of retirement for everything else.

So far I have had no more memory issues. You guys were right - I didn't need to increase RAM which would have meant $1000 for memory upgrade and changing to 64bit which would have incurred a cost or replacing the notebook which the board didn't recommend I wasn't looking forward to.

Many thanks to everyone who showed interest and gave advice.

Further problems will be reported.

[IanB]

Just for interest Mal; what size are the PS files you were having trouble with? :)

[mal from cessnock]

Anything from 24Mb and up - usually occured when making selections.

[IanB]

yeah OK; my PS files are 60 to 900 MB for complicated multimages; the old puter gets cranky from time to time and throws in the towel.

Cheers

[milspec]

Depending on which version of Windows you are using (as well as 32/64 bit) and considering the size of the files you are working on, I would be wondering if the system is running out of virtual memory space. Windows allocates a certain amount of HDD space to use as a temporary memory. Maybe check to see if you have sufficient space left on the 'C' drive. You will probably need anywhere from 2G to 4G free.

[mal from cessnock]

Milspec - ta mate.

Problem appears to be solved - computer repair and re-install.

Thanks to everyone who came on board with this one. I've learnt a little from some and a lot from others and I found each and every post very helpful.

Great members in AusPhotography.