Desaturation of photos after uploading

[iltby]

Hi all,

Hope this is the right forum for this - I'm thinking this could be a Photoshop issue so I assume so.

Yesterday I uploaded an original to Redbubble and then decided to crop the photo and re-upload it. The original showed up fine when I uploaded it, but for some reason the replacement photo is showing up as being really desaturated and I can't figure out why. I've had it happen before and have never been able to explain it. Can anyone think why this would happen? I hope my explanation makes sense...

This is the photo on Redbubble-

http://www.redbubble.com/people/iltby/art/2513752-6-disturbed

And this is it on Flickr-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilovetobeyoung/3250049356/

The shot on Flickr is how it should look.

I could just upload the original again but I cropped it to remove some of the feeder and I'd love to figure out why this is happening.

Thanks in advance.

[ricktas]

the most obvious reason is colourspace

Are they both sRGB? or is one AdobeRGB? Check that, AdobeRGB is the bigger colourspace, but it can also look 'flat'. The internet is generally optimised to work in sRGB, so sRGB photos viewed on the net will look more vibrant etc.

[ricktas]

Looking at it further. I think you have just uploaded the wrong file to redbubble, you say they are the same, but sharpness across the breast of the parrot on Flickr is way better than that on redbubble. It is not the same processed file!

[iltby]

You're right, I have no idea how I've managed that, how annoying...I think I'll start over. Thanks Rick :)

[iltby]

Argh, I don't know actually, they look absolutely identical on my computer. This is driving me nuts :(

It wouldn't be anything to do with cropping quite a lot would it? :/

[BLWNHR]

Looking at it further. I think you have just uploaded the wrong file to redbubble, you say they are the same, but sharpness across the breast of the parrot on Flickr is way better than that on redbubble. It is not the same processed file!

I think it is, RedBubble is stretching the image (552 red bubble, 500 flickr). I think that is where the softness is coming from.

My money is on a colour space issue. I know I've had a similar issue when adding a watermark created in a different colour space to the original image.

[iltby]

That's sort of the impression I was getting Adam, but I don't know what to do about it. It's fine when I upload the original which is about 3888 x 2592 pixels, but when I get down to 2200 x 1500 or so it gets desaturated.

Is there anything I can do about it? I don't really have a grasp on colourspace...

Rick, to answer your previous question, they're being saved as 'Camera RGB Profile'

Thanks guys.

[jev]

It might be the same picture, but... the one on Flickr indeed has a color profile attached to it and the image actually *is* in AdobeRGB. You are most probably using a color profile aware browser like firefox or maybe safari on a mac?

Redbubble, OTOH, "optimized" your image for display and removed the attached profile. Even a color managed browser will assume sRGB if no color profile has been attached. Thus the reason that is looks desaturated.

What you need to do is convert the image to sRGB before uploading - that is the only way to make sure your viewers will see what they get!

[iltby]

Jev, I'm using Safari so I'd say you're right - I had no idea that could happen. Will make sure to save in sRGB from now on.

Thanks for your help :)

ETA: Was hoping I could figure it out myself but I couldn't :o How do I save in sRGB?

Thanks again, I must look like a complete amateur.

[ricktas]

Jev, I'm using Safari so I'd say you're right - I had no idea that could happen. Will make sure to save in sRGB from now on.

Thanks for your help :)

ETA: Was hoping I could figure it out myself but I couldn't :o How do I save in sRGB?

Thanks again, I must look like a complete amateur.


What photo editing software do you use, once we know that we can probably help with the colourspace saving instructions.

[jev]

Oops... where I wrote "AdobeRGb", I should've referred to a camera profile. For the end-result however, this does not matter - it's not sRGB. For short-term help, as Rick already mentioned, we need to know what software you're using.

Now, all these troubles stem from a misunderstanding of how colormanagement works - a camera profile should never be used to export images with. If I may be so bold, I would suggest to take some time to read the excellent tutorials at cambridgeincolour starting here (http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-management1.htm). I am aware this is not easy and it makes some very dry reading, but it is essential to at least understand the basics of colormanagement before trying to use it. This all sounds snooty & snobby, I know, but I don't mean it that way...

[iltby]

Sorry guys - I'm using Photoshop CS3.

So should I be shooting in a different format, or exporting in a different format? I currently import everything into iPhoto and export the originals from there to edit them. Maybe that's not the right thing to be doing :/

It doesn't sound snooty at all, thanks Jev, I'll have a read.

ETA: I just read all 3 parts, grasped some of it but found most of it quite overwhelming. I think I'll try and get someone to explain it to me face to face :o Thanks again.

Am starting to think I should be doing a lot more reading on a lot of topics before even picking up my camera again :o

[clm738]

Hi iltby,
I'm kinda in the same boat as you and I have been trying to understand, as you have, so you are not alone in this one at all.
Thanks Guys for getting down to basics for us. We will get it in the long run.

[iltby]

Thanks Carmen, good to know I'm not alone :o Learning all there is to know is so overwhelming, but obviously it can be done. I think I just need to learn more patience, hehe.

[iltby]

Sorry guys, am going to bump this up as I'm still really struggling with this.

I've just discovered that using iPhoto to import my photos was completely wrong so have stopped doing that, but am now trying to figure out which program to use - am tossing up between EOS Utility and Bridge at the moment.

Importing using EOS Utility is great because the photos import with sRGB colour space embedded, but it's incredibly slow to use. If I use Bridge they import with RGB colour space embedded which I assume is Adobe RGB? Going off what I've read, I want my photos to be embedded with sRGB colour space, so does that mean I need to be using EOS Utility to import my photos, or can they be converted to sRGB after being imported?

I hope that all makes sense, I'm trying so hard to get an understanding of this and am finding it incredibly difficult. I've been trying to grasp colour space since reading Jev's post but I'm just not getting it - I really need some extra help in understanding how to import my photos and how to save them. I'm also unsure of whether I should be shooting in JPG or RAW?

Sorry to bombard you with all these questions, I'm just getting so frustrated trying to understand all this and get my head around it.

[ricktas]

In the settings in Bridge you should be able to set the import colourspace...goes off to look (i dont use bridge)

In bridge, under EDIT>PREFERENCES>THUMBNAILS, you can click off Adobe RGB
I am not sure if that will do it, cause I do not use bridge. but try googling things like Adobe Bridge colorspace settings etc.

[Calxoddity]

It might also be worth checking what colourspace you're using on your camera and just set it to sRGB to remove any doubt. Though my D40 can save with AdobeRGB colourspace I ended up setting it to sRGB to provide some consistency in outcome between camera, screen, web and print.

Regards,
Calx

[iltby]

Thanks Rick, I've just turned that setting off so I'll see how I do. Will definitely Google a few things today.

Thanks Calx, I didn't realise you could set your colourspace on your camera but it was already set to sRGB so I think the problems I'm having have been being caused by the programs I've been using to import.

Thanks again guys, very appreciated.