Buying a flash sucks!

[Shelley]

For some reason i don't want to spend much on a flash. But, i have come to the conclusion that i need at least a 430 ex for my 50d. $399 on DD-photographics (on-line), $429 from CameraHouse, do i need to spend this much?

Can anyone give me a few pointers on what i should look at. I would use the flash for family stuff, macro at times and not sure about birding though. As per usual I would look into learning more on how to use it etc.

I went into Perth - PRA imaging was closed :( . A couple of other shop assistants were not very helpful at the camera shops. One guy just said we don't have them, you have to go somewhere else. I asked them about the Sigma flashes EF-530dg super.

I came away with Scott Kelby Book "The Digital Photography book - vol 2". I am back to saving a bit more money and talking my husband into letting me go a bit more money.

[Ellen]

I'll be interested to hear peoples views here - a flash is the next thing on my list, but they are so expensive and I'm not sure whether I really need to buy the more expensive one or will the cheaper one do?! too many questions lol. Good luck!

[Harves]

I use the Sigma EF-530DG super, it does everything I want it to do. :th3:

[Bunyip]

I've been getting serious about speedlights recently. You should read about The two things your flash needs to have (http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-start-here.html). The idea is to ensure that the flashes can be used off-camera; that's when you will get the most out of your speedlight.

[rossco]

i recently bought the 580ex11 for my canon d 20, i have to admit i bought it 2nd hand, as near new for $450.00, i thought long and hard about this you are. I decided it was much like my efforts with my tripod, i bought cheapish to start and soon enough was spending real money to get a good one that met my needs as i grew into it, i think a flash is the same story. Hope it helps.

[Buddah]

Shelley

I was in your shoes a few weeks back and just didn't have the patience to research the ins and outs of a cheaper alternative to a Canon flash. For me it was a case of whether I could stretch to a 580 EX. But, I got the 430 EXII and have used it a heap of times since. The pain of the cost was very fleeting (only cropped up briefly when the VISA statement arrived) but I am so glad I have that marvellously dependable piece of gear. For what it is and what it does I think the cost is not an issue.

But...I couldn't come at the $40-$50 for a bit of plastic masquerading as a diffuser. Instead I bodged the bottom end of a juice bottle (cost $0 - retrieved from the bin) and I reckon it does a great job. Looks a bit dodgy, though.

[Shelley]

Thanks so far for the comments - it is appreciated.

Buddah I too am pulled in the direction of the 580 ex, but cost wise i think i need to be sensible and go for the 430ex II. Thanks your thoughts on that one.

[jev]

If you want a good flashgun for Canon and don't want to shell out the money for a 430EX or 430EX II, I guggest you have a look at what Metz has to offer. What does a Metz Mecablitz 48 AF-1 for Canon do these days in Ozz? I think you can have the Metz 58 for about the same price as a Canon 430EX II.

Than again, you really don't need the extra features of the 580EX II - waste of money.

[Buddah]

I also figured that if and when it got to the stage that a 430EX was limiting what I wanted to do I could upgrade to the bigger unit and either use the 430 as a slave or sell it. By that stage I would have a far better understanding of the technology.

I appreciate Wally's analogy with tripods but I think that the 430 is a pretty decent unit to start with.

[Jimbo]

Bunyip's link is a gold mine. Go there and absorb everything in the Lighting 101 series.

Providing you're comfortable with the idea of off-camera flash, then you can pick up a 2nd hand Nikon SB-24/26/28 for under $200. But you won't be able to put it on your camera's hotshoe.

Then you'll end up with an addiction to brollies, pocket wizards, softboxes, reflectors...

[Shelley]

Its amazing how we all go thru the same thing. I was thinking that i could use the 430ex as a slave if i decided later to get the 580ex.

Bunyip thanks for that site - i actually have been checking that out and i am hooked on the possibilities. I would been interested in what you have/or going to do in regard to speedlights. I am bit worried as i do work fulltime, supposed to be studying on-line and all i want to do is camera stuff :) .

Jimbo, i am interested in off camera and would def. be trying to apply. Jev hadn't heard of Metz, i will google it and find out more.

Thanks everyone.

[Jimbo]

Strobist.com also has a Flickr group (http://flickr.com/groups/strobist/) with over 40,000 members - plenty of discussion threads and images for inspiration ;)

[B D H]

Hi

I was advised by many "experts" to stick with a canon flash for my 40D, they apparently relate to one another better than a different brand of flash,although this remains unproven

Having said that, Hows your bartering skills? I managed to knock a guy down to $360.00 for a 430 EX 11 in a Sydney shop, I think they're all hungry for a sale at the mo,
give it a shot!

Cheers
Bryan

[bigdazzler]

Hi

I was advised by many "experts" to stick with a canon flash for my 40D, they apparently relate to one another better than a different brand of flash,although this remains unproven


Ditto .. I too was advised by an experienced photographer ( not sales guy ) that when buying hotshoe flashes you should stick to the same manufacturer as your camera .. his reasoning was with third party flashes there will always be a function that will not do what its supposed to do .. i guess its logical .. but whether proven or not , i dunno ..

[jev]

It is perfectly safe to get yourself a Metz, these guys have a more experience with building flashguns than anyone in the industry. Sigma used to be quite good too, but as with their lenses, some compatibility issues arise. For example, there are some problems with sigma's flashguns in combination with the 50D and 5DII not supporting E-TTL II correctly (the flash that is, both bodies perform well on E-TTL II with Canon's speedlite EX range). There are other manufacturers ofcourse that make flashguns, and some might be quite good at it. Unfortunately, most of them are below-average these days (Vivitar, Cullmann, Sunpak... well-known names that seem to fade away).

Having said that, it might pay off in the long run to play it safe and stick to Canon's own flashes.

[Shelley]

Thanks for responses - it has been most helpful - as i am on holidays i am taking a bit of time as i want to take my time in making a choice. I will do another trip into Perth as I am finding it is just as cheap by the time you pay postage to actually buy from a camera shop - so i will support them.

Jev I have looked at Metz and i am definately interested. Actually, overall this thread has made me read a bit and i have learnt a bit (nothing wrong with that). I did some portraits of my sis little one and i am itching now to get a external flash.

[Bunyip]

Shelley, I'm madly into this stuff right now, and I would love to answer whatever questions you might have. I'll tell you this: it's not cheap to get the whole mobile strobist thing going. Nevertheless, even with one flash off-camera, you have made a huge step forward.

[jev]

I did some portraits of my sis little one and i am itching now to get a external flash.
Hmm... I just may have to hurry with writing the "flash creative use tutorial" than :D

[Shelley]

Thanks Bunyip - i will get an external flash first and i hope to gradually build on that over time. I would also get a reflector. I probably will concentrate first on using the sunlight thru windows, being outside etc. first. I have practised backlighting for portraits outside using the sun and fill in flash using onboard flash. What do you have set up? Interesting in knowing what you have done or doing?

Jev - i appreciate anything you put up when you are ready. I know it takes time. Its great that you are prepared to spend some time doing this :)

[BLWNHR]

I asked them about the Sigma flashes EF-530dg super.


I own the EF-500 Super for my Pentax and it's been a fantastic flash, great controls built in and a very sturdy unit. I don't know what the price difference between the EF-530 and the 430EX but if the difference was more than $100 I would be heading for the Sigma.

[jev]

Again, stay away from Sigma flashes if you want trouble-less operation unless the price difference really is very, very big. If you've got a slightly older Sigma unit, not supporting E-TTL II, it is useless when upgrading to the 50D for example. Check out Sigma's announcement (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3451) on the issue.

[reaction]

Nikon have CLS that 3rd party can't do. Duno if Canon has any such stuff.
Otherwise 3rd party same specs for 1/3 price is a no brainer.

There's always people that say Canon/Nikon/Pentax access. are better for Canon/Nikon/Pentax 'in the long run'. Like the shoulder straps eh? It's only better if there are features that cause you to buy the brand one in the future. I know I won't.

Plus to get 180deg twist you have to go to the top models for brand flash

[feral1]

I am using a Sigma flash on my 400d, I find it useful for family shots and for birding.
I know I will get a better result for birding with the 430 ex than the Sigma, but budget dictates and an offer I could not refuse.
The 430 ex II is a good all rounder, it is great for off camera as most will know, great for family shots, and it is great for birding.
Due to the fact you can use it in high speed shooting. If money is tight save for the canon model as you will more than likely not beable to do some things with a after market model.
The Sigma I have I cannot use it in high speed as it does not have it, so I am stuck with a max of 1/200th birding when the flash is needed. If I could have afforded the 430 ex that would not have been a problem.
Go Canon.

my 00.02 cents worth.

Peter

[jeffde]

Hi
I have a 430 and wish i had the 580. that said if you only want 1 flash the 430 is fine. The diffuser is worth the $30 odd bucks if your doing alot of portraits.
If you want to use 2 flashes or more than 430 only works as a slave and not as a master for that you need the 580. Other than that i'm not sure there's a great deal of difference between the 2.

[jennyw]

I use the Canon 580exII with a Lumiquest Ultrasoft diffuser, http://www.lumiquest.com/
I am very happy with the results I am getting with these products, they are worth the expense.

Cheers

[Shelley]

Well since posting this thread, i have decided that i will buy the 580exII - and i am over half way saving for it. I made this decision based on members input on this thread and a bit of research myself.

Reasons are: stay with canon, just easier for compatibility and checked prices with other brands and difference in prices was not to extreme really not a factor for me anymore.

580exII can be a master and slave - i also did some tutorials on line and it helped me to decide what i wanted to use a flash for. Though possibilities are endless and there is a lot to learn.

So thanks everyone and hopefully soon i will get a flash, but i don't mind waiting until i go away in June. :)

[smorter]

The 580EXII is a great flash, you made the right choice, it has several distinct advantages for me personally, the most important being the bi-directional 180 degree rotation and the ability to use FEB and the CP-E4 Battery Pack.

The 430EX is great, but if you are doing anything professional, or where you need speed and flexibility, it's near unusable. I do use it, but mostly as a backup for my 580EXII. I wish I had of gotten just 2 580EXII's in the first place. Back in the days of the good AUD I got my 580EXII brand new from the US for $329 :) (cheaper than what I paid for my 430EX)

RE: Diffusers, in my opinion these are the biggest scams in Photography. They add nothing and are totally useless. There is nothing you can do with a flash and diffuser that you can't do with just a bare flash. The one exception is if you are absolutely not able to bounce, in which case a diffuser would be a marginal improvement over direct flash. When you can bounce a diffuser is just useless bulk.

[Mav]

I am not totally in agreement about the diffusers and their worth. I did find a marked improvement when using one on the 580EX II but I do agree that for what they are the prices being asked are ludicrous.

I actually bought one off ebay the other day, a Sto-Fen rip off from China to fit the 580EX II, it cost me all of AU$5.60 with shipping. When it arrived the postage was $5.10 so that makes the diffuser worth 50 cents. :)

[reaction]

diffusers are a ripoff, you can get so many 3rd party for under $5 shipped. Especially the 'gary fong' crap that sells a bit of plastic for $60USD.

I'm confused what diffuser cups are good for, since surely you'd rather bounce. But the SB900 comes with 2-3 cups!?

[peterrad]

As stated 430ex for now and upgrade when needed..

[Shelley]

Well I try so hard not nag my husband when I want new gear and i have been very good in regards to getting my flash. I did not drop any big hints (at least not intentionally).

I saved my pennies, when tonite out of the blue, he said i could have some money to buy more camera gear. So I am going to buy the 580exII. I know it has gone up a bit, but i will get this flash and also buy a reflector I think. Now i face a new learning curve......:eek:

[Buddah]

Good on you Shelley. I'm sure you'll get a lot of good use out of it.

[YannB]

Talking about flash units..
I get myself a Sigma 530 DG ST a couple of months ago.
This unit it's absolutely useless on a Canon 400D, i mean unless a TTL use (full auto so you can't "play" with), you'vo got 2 other option witch are : full mode (53 GN, hard to handle..) or 1/16 of the power... sucks..
So i've order a 430 EX...
I've spend twice the price of the 430 EX a the end...:(
Now i have to face another unpleasant situation with the Sigma.. I would like to use it as an off-camera flash or slave and guess what... So far it's impossible :'(
My advice will be think twice or more before spending precious money on your gear budget !!

That was my 2cts
Thanks for reading lol !
YannB.

[Analog6]

I bought a cheap one on eBay to see how I liked it etc. It does not have TTL, but there are 2 auto settings which I have to work out how to set up, and there are 8 levels you can set it to in manual, and it has a swivel head, a little diffuser box etc. I am quite happy with it and can see big advantages, so a Canon Speedlight is planned down the track. The flash unit was $77 and the off camera cord (and I should have got the longer one!) $43.

[Roof]

Talking about flash units..
I get myself a Sigma 530 DG ST a couple of months ago.
This unit it's absolutely useless on a Canon 400D, i mean unless a TTL use (full auto so you can't "play" with), you'vo got 2 other option witch are : full mode (53 GN, hard to handle..) or 1/16 of the power... sucks..
So i've order a 430 EX...
I've spend twice the price of the 430 EX a the end...:(
Now i have to face another unpleasant situation with the Sigma.. I would like to use it as an off-camera flash or slave and guess what... So far it's impossible :'(
My advice will be think twice or more before spending precious money on your gear budget !!

That was my 2cts
Thanks for reading lol !
YannB.


Should've taken it back to the shop...still can i think

[jev]

Should've taken it back to the shop...still can i think
Why? Because it's not broken? The "issue" as described is per design... from the Sigma website:

Compatible with AF single-lens reflex cameras of all popular manufacturers. this flash unit allows fully automatic photography with automatic TTL exposure control. In addition to the automatic mode, it also provides two power levels in manual mode: full and 1/16 power.

Editted to add: or are you referring to off-shoe flash not working? That's also per design :(. They switch off automatically after 80 seconds of inactivity and that cannot seem to be switched off.

[Roof]

Why? Because it's not broken? The "issue" as described is per design... from the Sigma website:




The product does not meet customers expectation. Here in Australia is a good enough reason to take things back, If you have to original packaging

[BLWNHR]

The product does not meet customers expectation.

The customer should have done their research! I own the EF-500ST, was the first external flash I bought. I knew it didn't do everything the EF-500 Super did, but it was also proportionately cheaper. I used flash exposure comp to tame it down when TTL didn't work.

My father has worked in retail for 30 years as a manager and business owner and has constant stories of people doing the same thing. If the store didn't offer to demo the product then the customer should have asked for a demo, or done research before laying down their money on the product.

[GSP]

Well, buying third party,its always a case of 'caveat emptor'.
Me, I'm sticking with the Canon products, currently have 430EX flash and am saving for the 580EX as for diffusers etc if I cant make it then I'll buy it.

[gordon_l34]

Good Evening,

I have bought two flashes lately, a Metz CL-4 and a Metz CL-3 to use with my Pentax K20D.
It is a steep learning curve, thank goodness for digital! I took nearly forty shots of a sea shell trying different settings with my Tamron f2.5 90mm macro lens.

Regards,
Gordon.

[phild]

It's worth looking at the Nissin Di-866, I bought one last week from HK, I can't really vouch for how good it is yet, but I can confirm that it has almost all the capabilities of the 580EX including master/slave operation, ETTL compatibility, multiple flash, variable power, zooming (24-105), catchight etc. The Di-866 is also firmware upgradeable via USB, so compatibility shouldn't be an issue.

I can also confirm that the Di-866 interfaces remotely as a slave with the 580EX javong tested that feature.

I haven't had time yet to do any comparison tests but I will as soon as I get back home to Tas.

The Di-866 is available for both Canon and Nikon, costs around $299 from HK, although if you're prepared to buy OS the 580EX can be had for around $450.

[clm738]

If you go third party (not Canon) you may have the problem of the flash not working as well as a Canon flash would. Look closely at the specs. of anything before you buy to make sure it does what you want it to.

[coolie21]

Here is another great link for tutes:

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/

I wished I'd bought a 580 straight up, I got a 420 which is limited by no manual settings and also like the 430 can only be configured as a slave. You can use it off camera only as far as the oc3 lead will stretch unless you have another flash or the on camera flash of the 7D can trigger it I believe.

I don't think you will regret the choice of the 580, mine is coming with Santa :xmas31: